One of the reasons...

[johnny_vts]

...why i stopped being a barrister.

Last Friday, the place where my girlfriend works was burgled - she lives on-site. I was staying over and we heard the break in and called the police who responded quickly (to their credit). Armed with a knife (and rolling pin) i stood by her front door as the burglar/s tried to kick it in. They fled when they heard the sirens but were subsequently caught.

Burglary is a serious offence, generally passed straight to a crown court. I was confident that they would be sent down. I called the police this morning for an update to be told that they had been released with a caution - the reason being it was a first offence.

This is perhaps worth considering when you receive a NIP for minimally exceeding the speed limit...

I've already put the wheels in motion to pursue a civil suit against the burglars, and am trawling through test cases to search for a precedent to see what, if any, action i can take against the police.

This is a sad reflection on the law and order of our society...

[AdamW]

Thats pretty awful man, slap on the wrists and dont do it again. That really does suck......but I bet if they were to break in and you nailed one on the head with a rolling pin you'd be up on assault charges

[Robb]

English law sucks. FACT.

[johnny_vts]

Thats pretty awful man, slap on the wrists and dont do it again. That really does suck......but I bet if they were to break in and you nailed one on the head with a rolling pin you'd be up on assault charges

Exactly. Plus, how many people get a "caution" for speeding if it's your first offence? Not many...

[AdamW]

I posted a while back in a thread about my mate who has never been in trouble in his life, he overtook an off duty policeman on double white lines which were on a corner leading onto a straight, the straight is visble from where he overtook.

He went to court on dangerous driving charges......got banned for 18months 600quid fine and 80hours community service.....he was in shock when they read that out.

You can nick a car and crash into someone with no insurance and get a slap on the wrists

[johnny_vts]

I posted a while back in a thread about my mate who has never been in trouble in his life, he overtook an off duty policeman on double white lines which were on a corner leading onto a straight, the straight is visble from where he overtook.

He went to court on dangerous driving charges......got banned for 18months 600quid fine and 80hours community service.....he was in shock when they read that out.

You can nick a car and crash into someone with no insurance and get a slap on the wrists

That is extreme.

It's ridiculous. I've witnessed cases where a defendant was found guilty, and given what was effectively a free holiday as an alternative way of rehabilitation.

[Tupps]

The UK justice system pisses me off....

[Scattle]

That is bloody terrible, let of with just a caution, it's ashame to see what our country's becoming, why can't we have a decent primeminister that can sort things out.

[Clouds_mate]

English law sucks. FACT.

England Sucks Fact.


Did anyone see on the news yesterday that in Germany, The man of a newly born child can have up to 1 year paid leave to help bring up the child.

England we have 2 weeks.

High tax

Gash Law

Shit weater.




Robb seriously are we going to the beautiful Orange County? IRLO

[Robb]

Robb seriously are we going to the beautiful Orange County? IRLO

yeh just give me a weeks notice to dump the mrs and get dollar together IRLO...

[Tupps]

I almost moves to Florida a year ago, i enquired about work there.....seems pretty simple to get a job there

[Clouds_mate]

the OC is where its at. Awesome weather and the chicks are HOTT!!!!!ONE1111111ELEVEN!

[Scattle]

Petrol prices over here just piss me off, over in America it was $2.60 / £1.30 for a Gallon of Petrol, we almost pay that for litre over here, were does all our Tax we pay go?

[Clouds_mate]

on dirty students like saxodan

[Tupps]

Adsayer is reeping the rewards of our high tax as we speak

[saxodan]

on dirty students like saxodan


lick my gooch I dont get any bursarys from the government, I get a loan that has to be paid back thats all.


None of this EMA crap or maintaince grants...

anyhow.. fair play for getting ready to twat the burglar lol

and also yes legal system is shocking, half my mates didnt get insruance in the first year of driving and I did, they got fined less that I paid for my insruance.

Thats what gets on my tits

[vidal]

Sorry to hear about the OP's misfortunes, but was anything done other than kicking the door? Was entry effected, if so then I believe that constitutes an offence, whereas minor criminal damage is rarely dealt with by anything other than a caution.

Regarding taxation, I'm lead to believe, (but I'm always willing to be proved wrong ;) ), the proportional tax take is less here than in many other countries, notably Scandinavia. Those looking to our cousins across the pond for low taxation Nirvana may want to hope that their employment gives them comprehensive medical insurance, and that the cover does not run out part way through a treatment program, there are many stories of people in the middle of chemotherapy / radiotherapy (for cancer), not being able to complete their treatment due to reaching the limit of their insurance. I'd rather pay £5 plus a gallon and know I'd not be thrown out of my sick bed when an accountant says that I've cost too much.

Sorry for the hijack :y:

V.

[Robb]

Sorry to hear about the OP's misfortunes, but was anything done other than kicking the door? Was entry effected, if so then I believe that constitutes an offence, whereas minor criminal damage is rarely dealt with by anything other than a caution.

Regarding taxation, I'm lead to believe, (but I'm always willing to be proved wrong ;) ), the proportional tax take is less here than in many other countries, notably Scandinavia. Those looking to our cousins across the pond for low taxation Nirvana may want to hope that their employment gives them comprehensive medical insurance, and that the cover does not run out part way through a treatment program, there are many stories of people in the middle of chemotherapy / radiotherapy (for cancer), not being able to complete their treatment due to reaching the limit of their insurance. I'd rather pay £5 plus a gallon and know I'd not be thrown out of my sick bed when an accountant says that I've cost too much.

Sorry for the hijack :y:

V.

blah blah blah. i dont care aslong as theres hot weather and hot bitches :d

[Scattle]

Sorry to hear about the OP's misfortunes, but was anything done other than kicking the door? Was entry effected, if so then I believe that constitutes an offence, whereas minor criminal damage is rarely dealt with by anything other than a caution.

Regarding taxation, I'm lead to believe, (but I'm always willing to be proved wrong ;) ), the proportional tax take is less here than in many other countries, notably Scandinavia. Those looking to our cousins across the pond for low taxation Nirvana may want to hope that their employment gives them comprehensive medical insurance, and that the cover does not run out part way through a treatment program, there are many stories of people in the middle of chemotherapy / radiotherapy (for cancer), not being able to complete their treatment due to reaching the limit of their insurance. I'd rather pay £5 plus a gallon and know I'd not be thrown out of my sick bed when an accountant says that I've cost too much.

Sorry for the hijack :y:

V.

Fair enough they didn't get in, but they had the intent and wanted to break into the property and steal things it should be a similar punishment if they did get in, why shouldn't it?

[Clouds_mate]

blah blah blah. i dont care aslong as theres hot weather and hot bitches :d

Ammmmmen brother.

[johnny_vts]

Sorry to hear about the OP's misfortunes, but was anything done other than kicking the door? Was entry effected, if so then I believe that constitutes an offence, whereas minor criminal damage is rarely dealt with by anything other than a caution.


V.

Vidal, i was referring to the definition of burglary - that being the act of breaking and entering for the purpose of committing a crime; not an individual act of criminal damage. For the record, entry was gained via the forcing of a window (after smashing a pane of glass to gain entry via a french door proved fruitless). Without going into great detail theft also occurred (therefore validating the term, burglary).

[vidal]

Fair enough they didn't get in, but they had the intent and wanted to break into the property and steal things it should be a similar punishment if they did get in, why shouldn't it?

It would be very difficult to prove intent, I'm sure johnny_vts would confirm that point. It's not that I disagree, but I'd rather someone got done for something, rather than being found not guilty when the prosecution's case falls over due to lack of proof.

Vidal, i was referring to the definition of burglary - that being the act of breaking and entering for the purpose of committing a crime; not an individual act of criminal damage. For the record, entry was gained via the forcing of a window (after smashing a pane of glass to gain entry via a french door proved fruitless). Without going into great detail theft also occurred (therefore validating the term, burglary).

Cheers, mate, I stand corrected, although going on the original post, would criminal damage be the only offence with a reasonable chance of prosecution?

V.

[johnny_vts]

Cheers, mate, I stand corrected, although going on the original post, would criminal damage be the only offence with a reasonable chance of prosecution?

V.

No worries. No, the burglary (as stated in the first line of the original post) would have been the offence prosecuted.

In criminal damage cases often it left to the property owner as to whether to proceed. The police (and CPS) would toil with the "is it in the public interest" scenario.

As said, i'll be pursuing a civil action against the burglars (on behalf of my g/f).

[saxodan]

No worries. No, the burglary (as stated in the first line of the original post) would have been the offence prosecuted.

In criminal damage cases often it left to the property owner as to whether to proceed. The police (and CPS) would toil with the "is it in the public interest" scenario.

As said, i'll be pursuing a civil action against the burglars (on behalf of my g/f).

Must be mint being a barraster, mates would never shave/draw/teabag you when your drunk oevr fear of a trial...
good stuff

[Robb]

johnny, you say used to be a barrister...

what do you do now out of interest?

[AdamW]

johnny, you say used to be a barrister...

what do you do now out of interest?

I think the title used is "Drug Trafficer"

[Barry123]

England Sucks Fact.

second that man.


im buggering off to canada.

[johnny_vts]

Must be mint being a barraster, mates would never shave/draw/teabag you when your drunk oevr fear of a trial...
good stuff

Works best when buying goods or services (cars, repairs etc) and things go wrong. I've had eyebrows shaved off (and hair) but it was argued it was a vast improvement :drink: :drink:

[johnny_vts]

johnny, you say used to be a barrister...

what do you do now out of interest?

Undertaking the final steps to become a patent lawyer. No need to commute to London 3/4 times a week and not need to defend blatantly guilty people (at sometimes get them off).

[johnny_vts]

I think the title used is "Drug Trafficer"

Weekend job, along with people smuggling. It pays the bills.

[rushy_23]

If you hit them with the frying pan I wonder if you would of got cautioned..?

Think we all know the answer to that. Law and Order is backwards.....FTW...

[Robb]

Undertaking the final steps to become a patent lawyer. No need to commute to London 3/4 times a week and not need to defend blatantly guilty people (at sometimes get them off).

thats another thing i was wondering.

where do lawyers draw the line with conscience (sp) and profession. I mean if someone is clearly guilty, its their task to get them let off, or at least there sentance reduced to the minimum wether they are burgulars or rapists....

you seem to have your head screwed on but are most lawyers money grabbing homo's?

[johnny_vts]

thats another thing i was wondering.

where do lawyers draw the line with conscience (sp) and profession. I mean if someone is clearly guilty, its their task to get them let off, or at least there sentance reduced to the minimum wether they are burgulars or rapists....

you seem to have your head screwed on but are most lawyers money grabbing homo's?

It's a thin line - if you seeking an acquittal then the last thing you want to hear is your client admit guilt. That said, your loyalty is to your client. Similarly, with sentence reduction it's tough. Imagine a case where a guy rapes an old lady, pleaded not guilty (despite evidence to the contrary), was found guilty and you have to plead leniency. You do start to think, "what if it was my mum/girlfriend" etc but you have to become detached.

There are certainly people in the profession for the cash. If you're a hard-faced b*stard you can make a fortune at the expense of people's misfortune.

[flee123]

I had a mate lose his licence for overtaking an off duty officer too. 18 month ban and a £1000 fine. I don't understand, when they are off duty are they not a member of public? Gay, law is bent as fook!

I'm off to Australia! Nice weather, cheap houses and stupidly high wages for trades!

Don't like spiders and snakes though, that might be a problem!

[johnny_vts]

Must be mint being a barraster, mates would never shave/draw/teabag you when your drunk oevr fear of a trial...
good stuff

Also works well if ever there's a confrontation with the police...

[flee123]

It's a thin line - if you seeking an acquittal then the last thing you want to hear is your client admit guilt. That said, your loyalty is to your client. Similarly, with sentence reduction it's tough. Imagine a case where a guy rapes an old lady, pleaded not guilty (despite evidence to the contrary), was found guilty and you have to plead leniency. You do start to think, "what if it was my mum/girlfriend" etc but you have to become detached.

There are certainly people in the profession for the cash. If you're a hard-faced b*stard you can make a fortune at the expense of people's misfortune.


That is the state of the country and peoples attitude towards money and so on. They dont give a shit about respect and dignity towards others. It's all about paying the mortgage on a 5 bed house with one person living in it! It sucks! This country is backwards

[saxodan]

Also works well if ever there's a confrontation with the police...

haha, have you used it to your advantage recently?

Is it a case of throw in a few fancy words, give the vocabulary a strech.. or just know the procedures and show them up etc?

[vidal]

I had a mate lose his licence for overtaking an off duty officer too. 18 month ban and a £1000 fine. I don't understand, when they are off duty are they not a member of public?

No, maybe off duty, but still a serving officer.
Could one of the resident feds give a definitive answer though?

V.

[Scattle]

It would be very difficult to prove intent, I'm sure johnny_vts would confirm that point. It's not that I disagree, but I'd rather someone got done for something, rather than being found not guilty when the prosecution's case falls over due to lack of proof.



Cheers, mate, I stand corrected, although going on the original post, would criminal damage be the only offence with a reasonable chance of prosecution?

V.

I see where you are coming from, but in my eyes, if someone is battering down a door to get in, how is that not intent to burgel the place?

[johnny_vts]

No, maybe off duty, but still a serving officer.
Could one of the resident feds give a definitive answer though?

V.

If the facts were as simple as posted, then i would have fought this to the bitter end. Without substantial evidence and admission of guilt, the likelihood of conviction should have been minimal at best.

[johnny_vts]

haha, have you used it to your advantage recently?

Is it a case of throw in a few fancy words, give the vocabulary a strech.. or just know the procedures and show them up etc?

The only issue i've had was when on a night out (i was driving, so not drinking) there was a guy lying p*ssed up in the middle of the road. A policeman was screaming and swearing at him, at which point i intervened. His response was along the lines of offering a smack with his truncheon. I wrote down his badge number, handed my business card and said my office would be in touch.

Needless to say, he was most apologetic. That said, it's not too clever being a smart arse with the police - they do have a tough job, and these things can sometimes come back to bite you.

My advice? Stick to e-bullying.