Saxo first timer! Looking to buy and turbo...

[quadcamv6]

Alright there,

Just joined here as I am just in the process of sourcing a low milage vtr or vts with the aim of stripping it out and turboing it.

Not really any idea of where to go, or if this is possible.

I am shortly going to sell my 2006 MG ZS 180 - thats the 2.5 litre nasp quadcam V6 with 177bhp stock - though mine is now about 188bhp, with 185ftlb of torque. Have to say I love the car - only 11,000 miles on it, but I just want a change.

Cheaper insurance (I'm 21) and cheaper TAX (I just paid £300 to tax that beast for a year) are what I'm after.

Love the look of the vtr / vts.

Anyway, think i'm talking about 6k to spend, so any advice on what you would do (being people who know about these cars).

Turbod vtr / vts doable on 6k.

Seen plenty on pistonheads etc with low milage (40-50k) for around 3,300 (vtrs).

Already got a good insurane quote, and even saw a website selling turbo kits for vtr. Don't have a quote yet though.


Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

Nathan

[GrantW]

Buy mine, 1400 quid and then send it to GMC to turbo it.

[Raz]

is that 6k for the car included or what ya have to spend on the vtr/s? depending on which ya get?

id say, get a vts....rebuild the whole engine, then go down the route of turboing/supercharging/throttle bodying etc :y:

[djrem]

why downgrade?

[Hanuman]

not dissing as in being biased towards sax (i dont own one)
but 177bhp from a 2.5 v6 is pretttttttty rubbish bhp (from any manufacturer isnt it?

welcome to the forum.. go for a turbod vts

[Ruddy]

Nathan mate,

Have you thought about supercharging it?

My cousins boyfriend who used to be on SSC had a vts conversion with a Rotrex 64 supercharger (i think!?) done by Carworks (dunno if they are still going?) that was running at 250+ BHP at the flywheel.

Trust me mate im one of the people on this website that doesnt porky pie.

[Hanuman]

Nathan mate,

Have you thought about supercharging it?

My cousins boyfriend who used to be on SSC had a vts conversion with a Rotrex 64 supercharger (i think!?) done by Carworks (dunno if they are still going?) that was running at 250+ BHP at the flywheel.

Trust me mate im one of the people on this website that doesnt porky pie.

hes rite... and you dont wanna mess with him look at that pic off him "as he told us"

[leeroybrown]

Why bother with the Super charger or turbo...... old news these days

Throttle boding is where its at now

Immense noise, quick throttle response, you will have one seriously fast car.

Or then simple route of simple breathing mods, such as manifold, exhaust, filter, maybe a set of cams.

Or you could keep it standard as they are just as much fun.

[quadcamv6]

lol, I guess 177 from a 2.5 is pretty lacklustre, but the car is quick right now.
Remember the car is nasp not turbo.
It also has 177ft lb of torque as standard, and that counts for a lot when you plant the right foot. 100bhp per litre (250bhp) is achievable with the nasp route, but very expensive. Only a few have supercharged but there is now no dealer for turbos or superchargers for the KV6 engine.
Some have gone the route of a VAG turbo conversion (an engine conversion) with the 1.8 litre remapped turbo, putting out 270bhp. But then, that costs 6 grand.


Anyways, I'm having a change.

"Why downgrade?" - good question, but basically, it costs too much to run, I pay 1300 for insurance, 300 for tax, and it does 20mpg. I run it on the good stuff which costs 1.10 per litre currently. That means 10 quid gets me about 40 miles!

To clarify;

I will have at least 6k from the sale of my car.

that means I need to buy the saxo and get it turbod for 6k.

Whats the real difference between the vtr and vts? The website with the turbos didn't say they could do vts's - just looked like vtr's?

[Raz]

do you want figures/stats etc or what?

vtr = 8 valves (walking pace to some :P)
vts = 16 valves

vtr - 0-60 in 9.2 seconds
vts - 0-60 in 7.8? seconds

vtr = better fuel economy, which in turn means cheaper to run etc
vts = ok for fuel for the engine etc

vtr = doesnt have ABS
vts = does have ABS

vtr = can get about 290-320 miles to a full tank (from personal experience)
vts = ive heard can get about 250-270 a full tank

[leeroybrown]

vtr is 1.6 8v with 90 or 98 bhp depending on year

VTS is a 1.6 16v 120 bhp

[Raz]

so you got to buy the car aswell then turbo it....with 6k?

a decent saxo your looking at spending 2.5-3k

then you have 3.5/3k to turbo and...it is possible...just dont expect it to be reliable...

[quadcamv6]

so you got to buy the car aswell then turbo it....with 6k?

a decent saxo your looking at spending 2.5-3k

then you have 3.5/3k to turbo and...it is possible...just dont expect it to be reliable...


How come?

Thanks for the stats!

What about the throttle body mods / induction / exhaust mods then leeroy, what bhp gain would you expect to see?

[GrantW]

Dont expect to see massive BHP gains with throttle bodies, the TU engines dont respond as well as other engines to throttle bodies.

Maybe 160ish with lairy cams and a good remap?

But they do increase throttle response and make it a lot better to drive, plus as Leeroy says they sound awesome!

[Raz]

How come?

Thanks for the stats!

What about the throttle body mods / induction / exhaust mods then leeroy, what bhp gain would you expect to see?
all depends on the wieght aswell buddy...if you strip it...i.e take out the back seats, then your going to notice more speed than when they are in.

i believe throttle bodies cost the same ammount to do as turbo/supercharge etc? i might be wrong

with just breathing mods (straight through exhaust, de-cat, either a 4-2-1 or a 4-1 manifold, an enclosed induction kit, cams and eventually a re-map....i think your looking at 160+ bhp maybe?

please anyone correct me if im wrong

[leeroybrown]

Most kit for the vts were experimental hence why going down the turbo/supercharger route is a big decision as 99.9% of things need to be up rated and it aint cheap

Throttle bodied cars see anything from 160 - 180 bhp and up to 150ish pounds of torque

Doesn’t sound much but in a little light car like a saxo they fly honestly stupid what they can do

A good TB conversation can cost anything between 2-5k

If i had to do it all over again for the 3rd time it would be breathing mods and cams for me, cheap, fast and relaible

[quadcamv6]

Cool, I am familliar with the nasp tuning route.

My ZS has an open cone in the inner wing, decat and powerflow system. Manifolds were to follow, cams and then a remap.

That would have totaled close to 2K on my z.

Similar for the saxo?


Not really understanding whats involved with the TB conversion. What does this involve?

[leeroybrown]

cams about 300
exhaust 250
manifold 250
remap about 450ish or if you want standlone 500 upwards
filter about 120

Then you need to consider suspension and better brakes thats for cams anyway

Loads of different ways for Tb's

Look on Hi-flow Heads and GMC websites to see there kits

[-Jason-]

Get a 106 xsi and drop a vts turbo engine in it the xsi shell is lighter than the vtr or s

[Mikey]

throttle bodies all the way!! sound great and plenty of power!

[quadcamv6]

throttle bodies all the way!! sound great and plenty of power!


Ok, so is the VTS 180 'RSV' Kit http://www.hiflowheads.co.uk/
seperate to the throttle body kit that they also have on that page (the ones that come with the omex ecu)?

The rsv kit says it includes a ported throttle body, so which kit is best to go for?

[Cal]

Buy my 106 GTi (link in my sig)

Already has manifold/system, leaves you with 3k plus to do the throttle body conversion.

A bit of work and it could be a really really nice car...

Id love to spend a load on it tuning it and slapping a dimma kit on it but Im wussing out and buying LeeroyGinger's Clio Cup :y:

[Quick]

Search the engine section for views on hiflow heads!

[Raz]

Buy my 106 GTi (link in my sig)

Already has manifold/system, leaves you with 3k plus to do the throttle body conversion.

A bit of work and it could be a really really nice car...

Id love to spend a load on it tuning it and slapping a dimma kit on it but Im wussing out and buying LeeroyGinger's Clio Cup :y:
you have got a minter their cal!!

lcukt bast**d lol

[adamsax]

do you want figures/stats etc or what?

vtr = 8 valves (walking pace to some :P)
vts = 16 valves

vtr - 0-60 in 9.2 seconds
vts - 0-60 in 7.8? seconds

vtr = better fuel economy, which in turn means cheaper to run etc
vts = ok for fuel for the engine etc

vtr = doesnt have ABS
vts = does have ABS

vtr = can get about 290-320 miles to a full tank (from personal experience)
vts = ive heard can get about 250-270 a full tank

My VTR has the super rare ABS optional extra.

TB's all the way mate:y:

[Raz]

My VTR has the super rare ABS optional extra.

TB's all the way mate:y:
yes i know mate....

didnt put it down as i didnt think it was relevant lol

[Hanuman]

and the vtr is MILES better than that on mpg unless you have big problems.

from comments on here and knowing people with vts the standard is around 50-70miles off 10litres

where as the vtr from owning one is 80-100m for 10 litres, but on the motorway it pwns, i generally got 360-410 from a full tank and that isnt granny driving, + motorway at 75-85

[Cal]

you have got a minter their cal!!

lcukt bast**d lolWhat my GTi or the Cup? Cheerski anyways

[Raz]

and the vtr is MILES better than that on mpg unless you have big problems.

from comments on here and knowing people with vts the standard is around 50-70miles off 10litres

where as the vtr from owning one is 80-100m for 10 litres, but on the motorway it pwns, i generally got 360-410 from a full tank and that isnt granny driving, + motorway at 75-85

the vts is better then if you got 80-100 METRES :P

only messing buddy....mosty ive ever had out of my car was 324.6 give or take a .something

[Raz]

What my GTi or the Cup? Cheerski anyways
the cup mate :) seen it once before...loved it...lee definatly taken care of it :y:

[Hanuman]

sounds like you need to change some oil / filters ect lol

iv got a diesel now and its worse mpg than the sax driving to work and back due to short journeys but i bought it for long distance i spose. + its faster and more powerfull in a straight

[Raz]

sounds like you need to change some oil / filters ect lol

iv got a diesel now and its worse mpg than the sax driving to work and back due to short journeys but i bought it for long distance i spose. + its faster and more powerfull in a straight
it hasnt had a service since its 1000mile mark...in the garage next week on tuesday...

you know the fun is on the twisties hanuman!! lol

[josh1989]

Why bother with the Super charger or turbo...... old news these days

Throttle boding is where its at now

Immense noise, quick throttle response, you will have one seriously fast car.

Or then simple route of simple breathing mods, such as manifold, exhaust, filter, maybe a set of cams.

Or you could keep it standard as they are just as much fun.

vtr with r6 bike carbs and bodies - will keep up with vts i'm told?

[Raz]

vtr with r6 bike carbs and bodies - will keep up with vts i'm told?
with other mods aswell yes....quite possibly quicker than the 's' aswell... but remeber...thats a vts standard...not a modified one :y:

[josh1989]

with other mods aswell yes....quite possibly quicker than the 's' aswell... but remeber...thats a vts standard...not a modified one :y:

beautiful sound though! seen a 106 with vtr engine and bike carbs sounds immennse

[Raz]

beautiful sound though! seen a 106 with vtr engine and bike carbs sounds immennse
never properly heard a car with bodies tbh...ive thought about doing it on the vtr in 2/3 years...but no sure lol

[josh1989]

not an expensive job apparently

[Raz]

not an expensive job apparently
in the region of 3-5k for a decent set-up...pretty expensive if you ask me lol

[josh1989]

really? i saw a saxo on pistonheads with gsxr-6 carbs professionally fitted sold for £1100 car was mk.1 with 89k on clock stupid seller?

[Raz]

really? i saw a saxo on pistonheads with gsxr-6 carbs professionally fitted sold for £1100 car was mk.1 with 89k on clock stupid seller?
just cos you seen a car that sold cheap cos it had TB's on, dont mean its a cheap process...

i think the seller was stupid yes..

[josh1989]

no it just gave me the impression it is, you can't buy a turbo'd saxo for that cheap! haha

[Raz]

no it just gave me the impression it is, you can't buy a turbo'd saxo for that cheap! haha
if ya could...it wont be reliable lol

back on topic....get a vts then save up abit and TB the thing :y:

[josh1989]

second that

[AdamH]

get the vts.. get it ready.. exhaust, brakes, enclsoed filter etc... save a bit or cam / remap.. then choose for tb or charger etc...

personally i would have a charger over a turbo for relieability.. plus their easier to do your self :)

then again if your a man who doesnt know much about how engines work..3.5k plus would be needed :) and standalone is worth it :) if you have the molay

[quadcamv6]

get the vts.. get it ready.. exhaust, brakes, enclsoed filter etc... save a bit or cam / remap.. then choose for tb or charger etc...

personally i would have a charger over a turbo for relieability.. plus their easier to do your self :)

then again if your a man who doesnt know much about how engines work..3.5k plus would be needed :) and standalone is worth it :) if you have the molay



I'm confident enough to give things a go - though wouldn't call my self anywhere near an expert. Had my zs off the road for a few days, on axle stands with no bumper or front wheels so I could fix some problems. It was idling high - the idle air control valve, and throttle position sensor were clogged. The ECU needed resetting, and I relocated the induction kit to the inner wing.

Would love to fit a charger myself, but I'd want to be sure I did it right!


As for your comments;

Yes, VTS would be ideal it seems.


What about that RMS 180 KIT for £1600 quid. Anyone have any opinions on this?
Is this supposed to reach 180bhp? seems like a massive gain for 1600 quid, if so.

Anyway, yea, I think I would just get a nice low milage VTS, and then spend whatever I had left from my 6K on the engine.

Ultimately I would like Koni Adjustables / strut braces etc etc. Maybe strip it out a bit.

[AdamH]

befor eany majour work uprate the suspension and brakes..

next.. 1600 quid for 180 seems very far fetched.. the only people i would trust if i wasnt doing it myself would be GMC.. they use a 64 charger etc and its suited to the tu engines..

have a look at the website.. and use the search function on the forums and search for gmc and rotrex 64..

hope this helps

EDIT : GMCMotorsport (http://www.gmcmotorsport.co.uk/)

[quadcamv6]

Thanks mate

[Raz]

Thanks mate
it be hard to find a low mileage vts...but if your willing to wait untill the right one comes along then go for it mate :y:

the RMS 180 kit seems abit dodgey to me buddy...if the deal seems to good to be true...then it aint very good :y:

[AdamH]

well lately ive noticed alot of 20-30k vts creeping up for just under 3k.. so their getting cheaper :p

[quadcamv6]

well lately ive noticed alot of 20-30k vts creeping up for just under 3k.. so their getting cheaper :p



Thats what I'm talkin about.

I'd be happy with 3.5K and less than 40K, so think that should be do-able.

[AdamH]

wicked red :) you know it makes sense :D

[Raz]

Thats what I'm talkin about.

I'd be happy with 3.5K and less than 40K, so think that should be do-able.

get looking buddy....as AdamH said, wicked red, or one of my favourites....posi blue :y;

wicked red :) you know it makes sense :D

im liking this colour the more i look at pics...

i like posi blue also :y:

[quadcamv6]

Havent seen a red one. Don't think any are on pistonheads.

Any links to a photo of a red vts?

[Mystic]

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l193/pricey_05/DSCF0680.jpg

Pricey-VTS's car, its int he sale section atm for £2.5k i believe? Mileage is a touch over what your looking for but there is alot of other work done which might make up for it?

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117160

[Karl]

looks proper lush, color code the grille and winner.

[Raz]

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77459

find one of the nicest VTS there has been tbh!

[blacksax1]

not dissing as in being biased towards sax (i dont own one)
but 177bhp from a 2.5 v6 is pretttttttty rubbish bhp (from any manufacturer isnt it?

welcome to the forum.. go for a turbod vts

why is 177bhp form a 2.5 litre rubish, look at vauxhall they only managed 168 from the 2.5 in the calibra and hyundai only managed 165bhp from thier 2.5 v6. its not all about the power chap. you could have 9 billion bhp in a ferrari and it still be slower than the zs cus it cant handle the power. manufacturers try to get a good mix between the two and mg have managed it quite well i think. the zs handles like a sax and it is far from slow belive me. dont mean to get in an argument but just dont put it down cus its a stonking car for the money you pay:y: