new car

[stendog]

looking at getting a new car to tune up before i insure it. what do people think something like a 306 gti 6, 106 gti or a civic vti
any other sensible suggestions

[Nathan]

price, max age??

For tuning tho, stick to jap ;)

[AM4R]

civic is a good idea!

[Mieran]

205 GTI (1.9 model)

[AlexB]

id say civic tbh
quite easy to tune

is the vti the 1.6?
if so i know a bloke with a 1.6 vtech out of a crx (same lump i think?) and its basically standard pushing about 170bhp with the vtech cams kicked in

[sharpie]

id say civic tbh
quite easy to tune


not really, £ per horse power you to go with something turbo, as anyone who has spend any money on anything n/a will tell you.

[Bake]

Starlet Glanza V turbo!!!

[Karl]

is the vti the 1.6?
if so i know a bloke with a 1.6 vtech out of a crx (same lump i think?) and its basically standard pushing about 170bhp with the vtech cams kicked in

does this mean that when the cams hit their "power band" the car makes 170bhp?

[sharpie]

does this mean that when the cams hit their "power band" the car makes 170bhp?

proper vtec engines have 2 cam profiles, it switches from one to the other at a certain rpm.

[phillyh]

Get a b16 civic, theres plenty on pistonheads and that, it'll make you poop!

DOHC ftw

[AM4R]

id say civic tbh
quite easy to tune

is the vti the 1.6?
if so i know a bloke with a 1.6 vtech out of a crx (same lump i think?) and its basically standard pushing about 170bhp with the vtech cams kicked in

lol, you dont get extra bhp once youve hit vtec! the cams dont really kick in, its a solenoid that makes the pistons work harder and opens up more valves. the d16 lump out of a vti doesnt have 170 bhp its 160.

:y:

[phillyh]

Isnt the import b16 model 174 bhp? :S

[AM4R]

Isnt the import b16 model 174 bhp? :S

yeah but vti's dont have a b16 they have a d16.;)

[phillyh]

yeah but vti's dont have a b16 they have a d16.;)

ahhh, d/b all the same :oops:

:p

[Heliosphan]

Vti is 158bhp as standard but it's a heavy car -1280kg which gives it a similar power to weight ratio as a Vts.

I can tell you from experience that the Honda is not a great car to drive. Anything below 5000rpm and you'll get done off a Nissan Micra - it is painfully slow.

It only feels responsive when driven very hard - ie above 5500rpm (the Vtec zone) - how often you going to do that?

The Vti is definitely no Ctr or Integra - I'd seriously recommend you drive one before you buy.

Personally, I'd get a Gti6 out of those 3.

[Jazz]

I'd go for the Civic VTi- if you can find a decent example which hasn't done 120k miles, as most of them have. The few nice VTi's left are at dealers who charge stupid money for them. Failing that, I'd get the GTI-6, which is also fantastic.

[AM4R]

Vti is 158bhp as standard but it's a heavy car -1280kg which gives it a similar power to weight ratio as a Vts.

I can tell you from experience that the Honda is not a great car to drive. Anything below 5000rpm and you'll get done off a Nissan Micra - it is painfully slow.

It only feels responsive when driven very hard - ie above 5500rpm (the Vtec zone) - how often you going to do that?

The Vti is definitely no Ctr or Integra - I'd seriously recommend you drive one before you buy.

Personally, I'd get a Gti6 out of those 3.

I think thats bullshit mate, the civic wont get done from a micra! I agree they are no ctr's but c'mon, they are sill fast for what they are.

[Jazz]

I think what he means is that they have to be worked very hard to get the best of them- and I'd agree. Under 4k revs my ATR is like a 1.8 Mondeo tbh, not very impressive, above 4k its pretty good but then get it up to 5800 when the VTEC kicks in- then it all kicks off. The VTI with the d16(I think..?) is even more so, very flat at the lower end, but great once you're into the 'zone'. Great fun though, and unlike some of the Frenchies they can take a good hammering without things going pop ;)

[AM4R]

I think what he means is that they have to be worked very hard to get the best of them- and I'd agree. Under 4k revs my ATR is like a 1.8 Mondeo tbh, not very impressive, above 4k its pretty good but then get it up to 5800 when the VTEC kicks in- then it all kicks off. The VTI with the d16(I think..?) is even more so, very flat at the lower end, but great once you're into the 'zone'. Great fun though, and unlike some of the Frenchies they can take a good hammering without things going pop ;)

ok fair point, i agree:y:

[VTR-98]

For tuning get a turbo, can make silly BHP with small ammounts of cash spent. Also go jap turbo and you wont go wrong.

[sharpie]

yeah but vti's dont have a b16 they have a d16.;)

ahhh, d/b all the same :oops:

:p

no, all vti, type r, sir... etc. have b16s. the d16 was a completely different engine which is found in lower spec models, with less power.

[jonezy]

i agree with sharpie,

the b16a1/2 was the uk spec vti ek3
b16b1/2 was the jap spec found in the ek9

d16 is the single cam ESI civic ones (i think)

[sharpie]

i agree with sharpie,

the b16a1/2 was the uk spec vti ek3
b16b1/2 was the jap spec found in the ek9

d16 is the single cam ESI civic ones (i think)

yep - i don't know if all d series engines are single cam or not, but i looked at a del sol with a d15 a while back before i bought my golf. if it was a b16 i'd have bought it.

[Danr]

I'd try a polo g40. So cool and can be mental quick.

[Tupps]

Starlet

*Awaits rep from gav*

[leeroybrown]

Gav no longer works in the call centre so we wont hear much from him

[AlexB]

not really, £ per horse power you to go with something turbo, as anyone who has spend any money on anything n/a will tell you.

i know best power per £ is to turbo but the civic is quite easy hold of the parts due to the large market for jap cars

does this mean that when the cams hit their "power band" the car makes 170bhp?

lol, you dont get extra bhp once youve hit vtec! the cams dont really kick in, its a solenoid that makes the pistons work harder and opens up more valves. the d16 lump out of a vti doesnt have 170 bhp its 160.

from the way i understood he vtech there are 2 cam followers for each valve on 2 seperate profiles and at a certain rev the raise in oil pressure causes them to lock together swithching from a road to a fast road cam
and the ecu will adjust accordingly

as i saw the cams out of the car and they did look quite nuts

but i could have misunderstood what i was looking at

[AM4R]

i agree with sharpie,

the b16a1/2 was the uk spec vti ek3
b16b1/2 was the jap spec found in the ek9

d16 is the single cam ESI civic ones (i think)

wrond dude, vti was ek4 not ek3;)

[AM4R]

i know best power per £ is to turbo but the civic is quite easy hold of the parts due to the large market for jap cars





from the way i understood he vtech there are 2 cam followers for each valve on 2 seperate profiles and at a certain rev the raise in oil pressure causes them to lock together swithching from a road to a fast road cam
and the ecu will adjust accordingly

as i saw the cams out of the car and they did look quite nuts

but i could have misunderstood what i was looking at
its vtec, lol, yeah but your on the right lines, the valves are adjusted and more are opened past a certain rev range.

You can get single cam or two cams, with single cam vtec a solenoid does the work but with two cams the whole balance is shifted and you get that 'boost' feeling and the noise!

[sharpie]

lol, you dont get extra bhp once youve hit vtec! the cams dont really kick in, its a solenoid that makes the pistons work harder and opens up more valves. the d16 lump out of a vti doesnt have 170 bhp its 160.

:y:

i know best power per £ is to turbo but the civic is quite easy hold of the parts due to the large market for jap cars





from the way i understood he vtech there are 2 cam followers for each valve on 2 seperate profiles and at a certain rev the raise in oil pressure causes them to lock together swithching from a road to a fast road cam
and the ecu will adjust accordingly

as i saw the cams out of the car and they did look quite nuts

but i could have misunderstood what i was looking at

haha can't believe i never noticed that! little knowledge = dangerous thing.

the reason that there are two different cam profiles is because more aggressive profiles effective at high revs are ineffective at low revs.

[AM4R]

this should make everyone happy once and for all...

vtec (http://asia.vtec.net/spfeature/vtecimpl/vtec1.html)

[sharpie]

this should make everyone happy once and for all...

vtec (http://asia.vtec.net/spfeature/vtecimpl/vtec1.html)

you're the bam that didn't understand it though and i quote again.

the cams dont really kick in, its a solenoid that makes the pistons work harder and opens up more valves.


LOL

[AlexR]

Judging by your avatar, a jap car would suit you perfectly ;)

[Ryan]

LOL at faglex








Posted by iphone

[phillyh]

LOL at all the bickering over the honda engines.
I said they were all the same being sarcastic and also joking.


Anyway, whats a k20 then?
lol

I heard they were the type r engines?:panic:

[Jazz]

LOL at all the bickering over the honda engines.
I said they were all the same being sarcastic and also joking.


Anyway, whats a k20 then?
lol

I heard they were the type r engines?:panic:

K20- used in Ep3 CTR and DC5 IIRC.

[AM4R]

you're the bam that didn't understand it though and i quote again.



LOL
thats what happens in a single cam vtec mate!:geek:

anyways back on topic right...

[gozzy-vtr]

ermm v-tec. theres a standard vtec 1.6 round my area and its 140bhp basically standard. for a 1.6 thats just stupid! sounds like a beast too

[Craigyyboi_Vts]

civic FTW

[Jazz]

ermm v-tec. theres a standard vtec 1.6 round my area and its 140bhp basically standard. for a 1.6 thats just stupid! sounds like a beast too

You think thats a lot? Ek9 Civic only has a naturally-aspirated 1.6, but that pushes 183bhp standard, before aaany mods, more than many Turbo'd 1.6's on the market today tbh. Thats called Jap-engineering gozzy-san. :P

[eoey]

You think thats a lot? Ek9 Civic only has a naturally-aspirated 1.6, but that pushes 183bhp standard, before aaany mods, more than many Turbo'd 1.6's on the market today tbh. Thats called Jap-engineering gozzy-san. :P

bullshit figures mate tbh, factory figures running jap fue (102-106ron) stadered ek typres run about 170 at most ive seen some examples make 158bhp

they have high bhp but seriously lack torque and it all about the thrill of being put back in your seat.

alot of turbo lag in starbo's id go with a gti-6 tbh

[sharpie]

thats what happens in a single cam vtec mate!:geek:

anyways back on topic right...

if you really understand it (which i doubt for one minute you do), you paraphrased it so badly that it made so little sense i found it funny. hence you are in my sig. end of.

[AM4R]

if you really understand it (which i doubt for one minute you do), you paraphrased it so badly that it made so little sense i found it funny. hence you are in my sig. end of.

fair enough i probably didnt explain it very well. but whatever make you happy:homme:

[Heliosphan]

bullshit figures mate tbh, factory figures running jap fue (102-106ron) stadered ek typres run about 170 at most ive seen some examples make 158bhp

they have high bhp but seriously lack torque and it all about the thrill of being put back in your seat.

alot of turbo lag in starbo's id go with a gti-6 tbh


So you're saying that a standard EK9 Civic makes only around 12bhp more than the Vti of the same year?

Not saying you're wrong but I just find that very hard to believe.

Where do you get this info from and how do you explain such a vast difference in performance then between the two cars?

[AM4R]

lol, this thread is a riot

[b0t13]

my mate has a civic vti turbo, it rocks. 430bhp low boost 480bhp high.

the vtec engines have high HP ratings but lack torque which is the big downside to them..

[Heliosphan]

lol, this thread is a riot


It is but we're just having a debate - hope it doesn't get locked.

What you think about EK9s only making around 170bhp - can't be right can it?

[sharpie]

It is but we're just having a debate - hope it doesn't get locked.

What you think about EK9s only making around 170bhp - can't be right can it?

ek9s have 185ps

info on the differences between vti spec b16 and type r one:
http://www.isitaboat.co.uk/cars/honda_civic_type_r__ek9_/

[AM4R]

aye ek9 = b16b = 185 bhp..ish