evolution? yey or ney?

[Barry123]

late night question...

do you believe in evolution?

if not what do you believe?

creationism? intelligent design? some other bollocks?

discuss.

[djrem]

evolution.
fact.


bible.
bullshit.

Adam and eve?
Where did different races come from?
Dinosaurs.

yeah.

Atheism ftw.

This blondes clever. x

[Barry123]

did you watch any of the dawkins bloke givin' it large at christians?

[djrem]

you've given me a youtube serach term. cheers man.

why wont god heal amputees.com

good site and videos :)

[Cal]

Have any of you met Leeroy? Only gotta look at that to believe in evolution tbh


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1113/902556314_4b5595e927.jpg?v=0

[XPT_Furio]

evolution.
fact.


bible.
bullshit.

Adam and eve?
Where did different races come from?
Dinosaurs.

yeah.

Atheism ftw.

This blondes clever. x


What came first, the chicken or the egg?

Serious question....

[Viper]

evolution FTW definitely!

the bible is good for nothing. maybe stoking a fire?

edit: cal. lolololololololol!!!!!

[Barry123]

I'll check it. Honestly I just put this up hoping to kick start some spam.

But I do watch a lot of what that dawkins bloke says on tv and then try to find some youtube that tries to discredit his belief.

Dawkins pwns everytime.

[Barry123]

Have any of you met Leeroy? Only gotta look at that to believe in evolution tbh


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1113/902556314_4b5595e927.jpg?v=0

Leeroy, is in fact the missing link between monkeys and humans.

[djrem]

What came first, the chicken or the egg?

Serious question....

was a retard monkey chicken baby that instead of spawn had some retard egg that eveolved into a chicken.

something like that

SouthPark explains it better.

[Barry123]

What came first, the chicken or the egg?

Serious question....

thanks to evolution we can say neither.

was a retard monkey chicken baby that instead of spawn had some retard egg that eveolved into a chicken.

something like that

SouthPark explains it better.

link!!!

[XPT_Furio]

Read the bible; it will tell you all you need to know.

[chloesax]

Read the bible; it will tell you all you need to know.

how to cook a fucking tasty omelette?

I think not bruv.

[djrem]

SoutPark Link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ2o0FP3ESY

[Viper]

i cant read properly

so no, i wont read the bible. lol

i would rather use it as a pillow in a travel lodge :D

take it you're a bible basher?

[djrem]

Read the bible; it will tell you all you need to know.

I started reading the bible to impress a girl.

its bollocks.

Noah lived to like 600 years or soemthing retarded.

[Viper]

of course he did rem. he had a magical ark with 2 of EVERY animal..

so, he will have had 2 unicorns and everyone knows that unicorn blood is the elixir of life!

[chloesax]

lets no bash anyone's faith now....

[djrem]

basically


I believe that the morals behind it are great.
Just not filling people up with storys and then using it as a justification to kill other humans.

Retarded.

[Cal]

Im a mormon

[chloesax]

Im a mormon

moron?

[XPT_Furio]

i cant read properly

so no, i wont read the bible. lol

i would rather use it as a pillow in a travel lodge :D

take it you're a bible basher?


Well it's my opinion if that helps. I could of course be wrong. You either have faith and believe in god or you don't. Faith, by it's very nature, is not open to choice based on any rationale and so cannot be rationally discussed.
The bible is of course written by man, but inspired by the word of god. Evidence of divine inspiration is found in the fact that many of the principles of modern science were recorded as facts of nature in the Bible long before scientist confirmed them experimentally. I could give you some examples if you're sceptical.

[Cal]

moron?Yes moron love :y:

[chloesax]

Well it's my opinion if that helps. I could of course be wrong. You either have faith and believe in god or you don't. Faith, by it's very nature, is not open to choice based on any rationale and so cannot be rationally discussed.
The bible is of course written by man, but inspired by the word of god. Evidence of divine inspiration is found in the fact that many of the principles of modern science were recorded as facts of nature in the Bible long before scientist confirmed them experimentally. I could give you some examples if you're sceptical.

I'd like to see those examples please... very interesting to see the other side of this argument.

chloe x x x

[djrem]

moron?

ooh god.


Mormon's are just. Well. Judge for yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fqS8Hmuxio&feature=related

[Cal]

6 fucking minutes Rem ^^^ better be good

[djrem]

Well it's my opinion if that helps. I could of course be wrong. You either have faith and believe in god or you don't. Faith, by it's very nature, is not open to choice based on any rationale and so cannot be rationally discussed.
The bible is of course written by man, but inspired by the word of god. Evidence of divine inspiration is found in the fact that many of the principles of modern science were recorded as facts of nature in the Bible long before scientist confirmed them experimentally. I could give you some examples if you're sceptical.

I shout

WRONG.

I have Faith.

I have faith that tomorrow i'll wake up, have running water, have my family.

But i believe that the reason i have faith in that is because:
1. I have a Bed to sleep in.
2. A conenction to the main water supply
3. My family is safe and not dumb enough to try a Jihad in the night.

Not because of a god.

[djrem]

6 fucking minutes Rem ^^^ better be good

i turned it off when it went "We believe in planets"...

if you last 30 seconds +,

try and find the "All about Mormons" south park episode.

[chloesax]

what about fate?

[XPT_Furio]

I'd like to see those examples please... very interesting to see the other side of this argument.

chloe x x x


Roundness of the earth (Isaiah 40:22)
Almost infinite extent of the sidereal universe (Isaiah 55:9)
Law of conservation of mass and energy (II Peter 3:7)
Hydrologic cycle (Ecclesiastes 1:7)
Vast number of stars (Jeremiah 33:22)

Mentioned in the bible long before scientists proved them as fact.

[djrem]

what about fate?

Fate is ghey.

Fate caused the holocaust in that case.

It was Adolf's Fate to kill millions of people.


Seriously. You can control your own life.

Last time i checked, there was no strings attached to my arms and legs and no puppeteer above moving me.

[Viper]

well, XPT_Furio.

i respect your views, and apologise if i offended you :y:

[chloesax]

wotabout cows? where do they come from?

[XPT_Furio]

I shout

WRONG.

I have Faith.

I have faith that tomorrow i'll wake up, have running water, have my family.

But i believe that the reason i have faith in that is because:
1. I have a Bed to sleep in.
2. A conenction to the main water supply
3. My family is safe and not dumb enough to try a Jihad in the night.

Not because of a god.


I understand your stance. Even the most Godfearing have doubts ,discussion is no bad thing when it comes to religion.Look where blind faith has got us.
There are things all around us (meaning of life, vastness of the universe, blah blah blah) that science has been trying to prove for as long as we can remember. It's still to determine it's own answer, and never will. The human brain is not capable of finding these things out for themselves. Science provides no answer, only theories. If you have faith in god, you have an answer. That's what faith is. Like I said, I may be wrong, but i'm probably more fulfilled in my beliefs than most doubters. And that to me can only be a good thing.

[djrem]

wotabout cows? where do they come from?

bigger questions need to be asked

This site is very good:
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/summary.htm

[Barry123]

but that cunt President Bush... he believes in god.

If there was a god no way in shit would he have put that gimboid in power.

thus god does not exist.

[djrem]

who repped me? I demand phone numbers.

Good video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FARDDcdFaQ&feature=related

[XPT_Furio]

well, XPT_Furio.

i respect your views, and apologise if i offended you :y:

No worries mate, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Some people who don't believe in God feel the need to ridicule and abuse those that do. I don't have any problem with anyone's views, however absurd they may seem to me. It's when they try and cloak them in rational scientific terms they open themselves up to ridicule.

If your faith is strong you don't need to try and justify it in rational terms and if you choose to do so there can only be one outcome.

[djrem]

If your faith is strong you don't need to try and justify it in rational terms and if you choose to do so there can only be one outcome.

Very good point.

[XPT_Furio]

but that cunt President Bush... he believes in god.

If there was a god no way in shit would he have put that gimboid in power.

thus god does not exist.

Bush was democratically elected into his position by mere mortals.

Whereas the Queen is queen by the grace of god. See the difference?

It's getting late, dunno if that makes any sense.

[Barry123]

No worries mate, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Some people who don't believe in God feel the need to ridicule and abuse those that do. I don't have any problem with anyone's views, however absurd they may seem to me. It's when they try and cloak them in rational scientific terms they open themselves up to ridicule.

If your faith is strong you don't need to try and justify it in rational terms and if you choose to do so there can only be one outcome.

that's all cool and stuff. but don't you sometimes want proof of things before you believe in them?
what about some of the contradictions between proven science and religion, how do you relate to them. On one side you've got a repeated test showing X and religion is saying Y?
just a question and I'm honestly not having a go or anything :)

[Barry123]

Bush was democratically elected into his position by mere mortals.

Whereas the Queen is queen by the grace of god. See the difference?

It's getting late, dunno if that makes any sense.

nope not really lol

evangelical christians?

psychos?

[XPT_Furio]

Very good point.

I've just always wondered if the agnostic / atheists ever stop and think that the way they try and rationalise their beliefs belittles their faith / lack of.

[djrem]

Bush was democratically elected into his position by mere mortals.

Whereas the Queen is queen by the grace of god. See the difference?

It's getting late, dunno if that makes any sense.

No.

the Queen is in place because of a family line.

That started after a fight for that family to dominate the country.

God didnt chose her.

[djrem]

The God Delusion
FULL DOCUMENTRY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StBYzCFeNjM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShPF0DgSrQ4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGW8a1P9Z4c&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56219F1fF0s&feature=related

Watch please.

[Barry123]

The God Delusion
FULL DOCUMENTRY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StBYzCFeNjM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShPF0DgSrQ4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGW8a1P9Z4c&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56219F1fF0s&feature=related

Watch please.

bloody good documentary.

[XPT_Furio]

that's all cool and stuff. but don't you sometimes want proof of things before you believe in them?
what about some of the contradictions between proven science and religion, how do you relate to them. On one side you've got a repeated test showing X and religion is saying Y?
just a question and I'm honestly not having a go or anything :)

That's why it's called faith. There is no explanation or proof necessary. I mean I believe, you don't. We both die, ok, I may be wrong. But have I really lost out on anything? Let's say I was right - you're the one who misses out, no?
Try to think of it this way - don't rely on your senses to dictate to you what is real and what is not. A dog can hear a dog whistle - can you? Your senses can decieve you. You don't have the physical ability to hear it. Just because you can't see or hear something - doesn't mean it's not there.

[XPT_Furio]

No.

the Queen is in place because of a family line.

That started after a fight for that family to dominate the country.

God didnt chose her.

God knows the position exists for a king/queen and placed her in that family line.
She is there by god's grace. a pre-meditated choice you could say, but i'm not really wanting to go into that :P

[SamW]

No.

the Queen is in place because of a family line.

That started after a fight for that family to dominate the country.

God didnt chose her.

I also rem, was thinking didnt some old guy just kill another guy with a sword years ago now shes in power due to family...


I personally have no idea what i think, i like the idea that after we die gods there and he created everythign etc etc, but then evoultion(SP) also has evidence thats its happened... Then on the other hannnnd, what created the big bang, the 'god particle'(sp) somethign that gives mass to everything in the universe possibley a higher being of life or just another particle... so really i have no idea.

And if any of that made sense to anyone good on you :)

[Barry123]

That's why it's called faith. There is no explanation or proof necessary. I mean I believe, you don't. We both die, ok, I may be wrong. But have I really lost out on anything? Let's say I was right - you're the one who misses out, no?
Try to think of it this way - don't rely on your senses to dictate to you what is real and what is not. A dog can hear a dog whistle - can you? Your senses can decieve you. You don't have the physical ability to hear it. Just because you can't see or hear something - doesn't mean it's not there.

On that basis it's utterly pointless then to believe in something even if it's there if it doesn't do anything, right?

I never said I was anti faith... or I have no faith...
if there is a god, then when I die and he says to me 'adam, first of nice work on spamming saxp, secondly you're a bit of a legend for living your life, being a good person despite the fact you didn't believe in me, you didn't waste your time standing in a cold building on sunday thanking me, you just enjoyed the greatest gift I could ever give and you made full use of that gift, now you can thank me.'


I'd be like 'yeah safe, cheers god'

[djrem]

I cant hear it with my own ears but i can use equipment to show that sound is real.

Dinosaurs. Which day were they created on?

Also the world in the Bible the world is supposed to be like 10,000 years old.

So whats Carbon Dating measuring?

I'm not trying to debunk what you believe in.

I'm just trying to understand how.

I urge you to watch the documentry i posted.

[Barry123]

God knows the position exists for a king/queen and placed her in that family line.
She is there by god's grace. a pre-meditated choice you could say, but i'm not really wanting to go into that :P

are you evangelical? as in you believe in the literal and precise interpretation of the bible?

[djrem]

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.

Im half way through the Richard Dawkins doc.
Very thought provoking.

[Cal]

Fuck me this threads gone deep... prefered the gorilla pics tbh

[Barry123]

honestly dawkins is a legend.

[SamW]

I would like to know...

How did got begin to be?

Somethin thats always bugged me about he whole god thing is where did he come from...
Ive never read the bible or anything so would have no idea.

[Barry123]

I would like to know...

How did got begin to be?

Somethin thats always bugged me about he whole god thing is where did he come from...
Ive never read the bible or anything so would have no idea.

my guess is 12 billion years ago there were some scientists that decided to make a really big machine that would smash protons together, they called it a large hadron collider and it created a big bang.

[XPT_Furio]

are you evangelical? as in you believe in the literal and precise interpretation of the bible?

I was brought up presbyterian, but I have my doubts like any other.

As a protestant I believe that faith alone is sufficient for salvation - no amount of good works can buy you a ticket to heaven.

We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners.

Christ died for our sins and if you accept him as your saviour you will be saved. Or something along those lines ;)

[Barry123]

http://hasthelhcdestroyedtheearth.com/

[djrem]

What if you're wrong?

[djrem]

Who made God:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGW8a1P9Z4c&feature=related

2:00 mins onwards

[SamW]

my guess is 12 billion years ago there were some scientists that decided to make a really big machine that would smash protons together, they called it a large hadron collider and it created a big bang.

Tbh i wouldnt be suprisedif thats right... My bet is, when or current collider starts going crazy, another God might be created and then we might be so lucky as to have a gozilla type street battle between two gods...? Maybe, maybe not so much :bored:

[Barry123]

I was brought up presbyterian, but I have my doubts like any other.

As a protestant I believe that faith alone is sufficient for salvation - no amount of good works can buy you a ticket to heaven.

We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners.

Christ died for our sins and if you accept him as your saviour you will be saved. Or something along those lines ;)

seems fair enough I guess :)

so even if I developed the cure for cancer (or my personal fav, aids). but still thought religion really isn't my cuppa. I'd go to hell?

what about muslims? Jews? Hindus? and all of them? do they roasted for believing in the wrong religion?

[Barry123]

oh and XPT... honestly all these questions are purely because I'm interested and quizzical but if I'm stepping too far or offending then let me know. ads :)

[XPT_Furio]

Got to go to bed guys will continue another time :)

[djrem]

Understand the LCH Sam.

Theres no risk of us all dying.

Time began.
The concept of something starting Time is complicated because we are ruled by time.

Even now reading this, you've spent 15-30 seconds.

Its like "Where did the Big Bang begin?" - Everywhere. But How?

I see religion as an understanding cop out.

David Copperfield 2000 years ago could have been a religious leader.

What people dont understand, they fear.
What people fear they try to destroy.
Not understanding the concept of evolution results in destroying it.

[djrem]

Got to go to bed guys will continue another time :)

Ive run out of rep to give you. But as soon as i do, i'll dump some green blobs on you.

[SamW]

Understand the LCH Sam.

Theres no risk of us all dying.

Time began.
The concept of something starting Time is complicated because we are ruled by time.

Even now reading this, you've spent 15-30 seconds.

Its like "Where did the Big Bang begin?" - Everywhere. But How?

I see religion as an understanding cop out.

David Copperfield 2000 years ago could have been a religious leader.

What people dont understand, they fear.
What people fear they try to destroy.
Not understanding the concept of evolution results in destroying it.

Dick head, i know where not going to die, its a joke.

in regards to that part in bold, people scared of evolution, created book to make selfs feel better?

[Barry123]

highly worth watching - loosely related to evolution vs bollocks

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00dlr2j/

ads

[Barry123]

(Dawkins 27:17)

hahaha

[bullit]

I understand your stance. Even the most Godfearing have doubts ,discussion is no bad thing when it comes to religion.Look where blind faith has got us.
There are things all around us (meaning of life, vastness of the universe, blah blah blah) that science has been trying to prove for as long as we can remember. It's still to determine it's own answer, and never will. The human brain is not capable of finding these things out for themselves. Science provides no answer, only theories. If you have faith in god, you have an answer. That's what faith is. Like I said, I may be wrong, but i'm probably more fulfilled in my beliefs than most doubters. And that to me can only be a good thing.

exactly an escape ;)

if it makes you happy then great.

an d can you answer the dinosaur question

ill never forget chatting to a b basher. when she didnt know the answer shed say god lol.

[saxo_mike]

evolution ftw
can't get my head around god ect lol

[darkslag72]

lets face it......how many people do yout no that still go to church? lol science is winning!!!!!

[shooorn94]

lets face it......how many people do yout no that still go to church? lol science is winning!!!!!

Stopped going to church after my father messed around in my family for 5 years, mother stopped going church first. My religion stayed strong and true and my mother still believes.

Personally can't go to church due to work on a sunday and... erm.. saturdays just never went :ponder: this is nothing due to science. I studied physics (A level) I did not fail due to my religion (just lack of understanding of the science).

As stated by sayer "so if you are a muslim you're going to hell?" No, depends I suppose what you believe. I personally believe that there is a god, there was a "Jesus" he did not perform said miracles just the blokes in the bible bigging him up. I do not worry about death (maybe due to my faith) Or the fact that I cannot do anything about it, I like the idea of my family being in a place known as "Heaven" I however hope this heaven is much like earth and if you read into the "lord's prayer" you'll find that it states that, So I'm happy :y:

If you believe something strong enough nothing will make you change your mind on your beliefs, I'm a catholic but I don't believe everything. Just what I choose to believe :A: Will this mean I'm a sinner in the eyes of God? No... because I don't believe that.

Fuck knows whats after this tbh we will find out when we get there. I think there was an Earth before this one, got destroyed started the f*ck all over again and here we are with our evolutionistic cycle. The big bang will happen again most likely (but not because of our little men in white coats).

But this is my opinion.

[darkslag72]

Stopped going to church after my father messed around in my family for 5 years, mother stopped going church first. My religion stayed strong and true and my mother still believes.

Personally can't go to church due to work on a sunday and... erm.. saturdays just never went :ponder: this is nothing due to science. I studied physics (A level) I did not fail due to my religion (just lack of understanding of the science).

As stated by sayer "so if you are a muslim you're going to hell?" No, depends I suppose what you believe. I personally believe that there is a god, there was a "Jesus" he did not perform said miracles just the blokes in the bible bigging him up. I do not worry about death (maybe due to my faith) Or the fact that I cannot do anything about it, I like the idea of my family being in a place known as "Heaven" I however hope this heaven is much like earth and if you read into the "lord's prayer" you'll find that it states that, So I'm happy :y:

If you believe something strong enough nothing will make you change your mind on your beliefs, I'm a catholic but I don't believe everything. Just what I choose to believe :A: Will this mean I'm a sinner in the eyes of God? No... because I don't believe that.

Fuck knows whats after this tbh we will find out when we get there. I think there was an Earth before this one, got destroyed started the f*ck all over again and here we are with our evolutionistic cycle. The big bang will happen again most likely (but not because of our little men in white coats).

But this is my opinion.



interesting........i believe in myself, you make your own destiny etc. i dont like the belief of there being a heaven. live every day like its your last. and make what you can outa life. respect other peoples lives (its their life not yours). also do what you can to help others, just makes you a happier person.

[shooorn94]

respect other peoples lives (its their life not yours). also do what you can to help others, just makes you a happier person

exactly. ;) :y:

What I just did... made me a happier person

[XPT_Furio]

exactly an escape ;)

if it makes you happy then great.

an d can you answer the dinosaur question

ill never forget chatting to a b basher. when she didnt know the answer shed say god lol.

What exactly is the dinosaur question?

The bible makes it clear that man and dinosaurs would have co-existed, thousands of years ago, not millions.

[XPT_Furio]

It has to be said that the most famous scientists were creationists and the foundations of science were laid by these creationists who wanted to study gods incredible creations.

Isaac Newton - for example - who i'm sure you are aware is associated with the law of gravity, colour spectrum, calculus, inventing the reflecting telescope, wrote very actively against atheism and was a well known 6th day creationist.

Creationism can be seen as a science as well as "evolutionism".

The bible also encourages science:-

Speak to the earth and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the see shall declare unto thee. Job 12:8.

[djrem]

What exactly is the dinosaur question?

The bible makes it clear that man and dinosaurs would have co-existed, thousands of years ago, not millions.

Well im sorry but thats the wrong answer.

The only time they co-existed was in Jurrassic Park.


Luckily more of the world are clued up on this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Views_on_Evolution.svg/440px-Views_on_Evolution.svg.png

[XPT_Furio]

Well im sorry but thats the wrong answer.

The only time they co-existed was in Jurrassic Park.


Luckily more of the world are clued up on this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Views_on_Evolution.svg/440px-Views_on_Evolution.svg.png

It is possible for the majority of people to be wrong.

On teh subject of dinosaurs, evolutionists claim that they evolved over millions of years.
They imagine that one kind of animal slowly changed over long periods of time to become a different kind of animal. For instance, they believe that amphibians changed into reptiles (including dinosaurs) by this gradual process. This would mean that there would have been millions of creatures during that time that would be in between.
Evidence of these "transitional forms" should be abundant. However, many fossil experts admit that not one unquestionable transitional form between any group of creatures and another has been found anywhere!
If dinosaurs evolved from amphibians, there should be, for example, fossil evidence of animals that are part dinosaur and part something else?However, there is no proof of this anywhere.
In fact, if you go into any museum you will see fossils of dinosaurs that are 100% dinosaur, not something in between. Again, there are no 25%, 50%, 75%, or even 99% dinosaurs—they are all 100% dinosaur! :wall:

The Bible tells us God created all of the land animals on the sixth day of creation. As dinosaurs were land animals, they must have been made on
this day, alongside Adam and Eve, who were also created on Day Six (Genesis 1:24-31).

If God designed and created dinosaurs, they would have been fully functional, designed to do what they were created for, and would have been 100% dinosaur. This fits exactly with the evidence from the fossil record.

[Cal]

I'm more concerned that someone so religious owns a Mazda...

Surely that's a sin??? :panic:

[djrem]

Skip dinosaurs.
Lets try humans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1fGkFuHIu0

[XPT_Furio]

Skip dinosaurs.
Lets try humans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1fGkFuHIu0

I watched the first 30 secs and decided it wasn't worth watching - someone claiming that that evolution has been "proven beyond all reasonable doubt" based on nothing else but the fact that 99.98% of scientists accept it?

fossil records = evidence of evolution. There is none.

[Mattt-VTR]

I think dinosaurs will one day come back with all the technology and how we are advancing etc. I mean if we can re-create conditions of how it was when the 'big-bang' happened, then i am sure in years to come, we will have big fluffy dinosaurs!

[XPT_Furio]

I think dinosaurs will one day come back with all the technology and how we are advancing etc. I mean if we can re-create conditions of how it was when the 'big-bang' happened, then i am sure in years to come, we will have big fluffy dinosaurs!

Again, you have stated the big-bang as a factual event. It is only a scientific theory.

Creationists would not be surprised if someone found a living dinosaur!
However, evolutionists would then have to explain why they made dogmatic statements that man and dinosaur never lived at the same time, based on feck all.

Evolutionism is nothing more than a belief system, same as creationism.

[djrem]

I watched the first 30 secs and decided it wasn't worth watching - someone claiming that that evolution has been "proven beyond all reasonable doubt" based on nothing else but the fact that 99.98% of scientists accept it?

fossil records = evidence of evolution. There is none.

Then i recommened you watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xX_AUm6HSU&feature=related

It explains about your fossil record issue.
THere are 3 parts

[Mattt-VTR]

Again, you have stated the big-bang as a factual event. It is only a scientific theory.

Creationists would not be surprised if someone found a living dinosaur!
However, evolutionists would then have to explain why they made dogmatic statements that man and dinosaur never lived at the same time, based on feck all.

Evolutionism is nothing more than a belief system, same as creationism.

It may be a theory, and they may not be able to say 100% it was a factual event, but they have so much information, evidence, whatever you want to call it, that they can pretty much back it up.....

As for the bible, and god, i ain't even going to bother.

[XPT_Furio]

Then i recommened you watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xX_AUm6HSU&feature=related

It explains about your fossil record issue.
THere are 3 parts

"Scientists concede that their most cherished theories are based on embarrassingly few fossil fragments and that huge gaps exist in the fossil record. Evolution is unproved and unprovable."

You believe it simply because the only alternative is special creation, the work of God, and that is just unimaginable.

Off the record, and with tongue firmly in cheek - I trust that one day you will find yourself at the top of the mountain of truth, and that day you'll realise I was sitting there all along :boxing: :clapping: :p

[XPT_Furio]

It may be a theory, and they may not be able to say 100% it was a factual event, but they have so much information, evidence, whatever you want to call it, that they can pretty much back it up.....



Bollox. And stating such flippant nonsense only serves to belittle your argument.

[Mattt-VTR]

"Scientists concede that their most cherished theories are based on embarrassingly few fossil fragments and that huge gaps exist in the fossil record. Evolution is unproved and unprovable."

You believe it simply because the only alternative is special creation, the work of God, and that is just unimaginable.

Off the record, and with tongue firmly in cheek - I trust that one day you will find yourself at the top of the mountain of truth, and that day you'll realise I was sitting there all along :boxing: :clapping: :p

With the truth being what.....?

[Mattt-VTR]

Bollox. And stating such flippant nonsense only serves to belittle your argument.

When did it turn into an argument?


EDIT: 1000 POSTS!!

That is all

[djrem]

Watch Part 3.

Genetics prove evolution.

the ability to re-inject eye chromosomes into different speices re-ignite old genes.

this shows how evolution is a line back and forth.

If "god" made everything, then injecting the gene from a mouse that links an eye to a brain into a fly that doesnt have this gene would result in a mess.

Instead the fly develops sight.

i can present evidence again and again but you're in too much (no offence) within the delusion that a man in the sky controls the world.

[XPT_Furio]

When did it turn into an argument?

argument as in the case you are trying to put forward.

i'm not arguing with anyone here, we're having a discussion. But it's gettin way past my bed-time. :panic:

[Mattt-VTR]

argument as in the case you are trying to put forward.

i'm not arguing with anyone here, we're having a discussion. But it's gettin way past my bed-time. :panic:

I would call it more of a deabte. :D

[Barry123]

It has to be said that the most famous scientists were creationists and the foundations of science were laid by these creationists who wanted to study gods incredible creations.

Isaac Newton - for example - who i'm sure you are aware is associated with the law of gravity, colour spectrum, calculus, inventing the reflecting telescope, wrote very actively against atheism and was a well known 6th day creationist.

Creationism can be seen as a science as well as "evolutionism".

The bible also encourages science:-

Speak to the earth and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the see shall declare unto thee. Job 12:8.

Sorry XPT, but


How can you believe in evolution when it was only 'discovered' 120 years ago? It's pretty hard for newton to believe in anything but creationism when no one has actually put forward the suggestion of evolution... no?

I see that statement used a lot by creationism and even if it were true (well technically it is but not in the context creationist are trying to have people believe) it doesn't actually prove anything :)

Adam

[XPT_Furio]

Sorry XPT, but


How can you believe in evolution when it was only 'discovered' 120 years ago? It's pretty hard for newton to believe in anything but creationism when no one has actually put forward the suggestion of evolution... no?

I see that statement used a lot by creationism and even if it were true (well technically it is but not in the context creationist are trying to have people believe) it doesn't actually prove anything :)

Adam


Creationists and evolutionists, Christians and non-Christians all have the same evidence—the same facts. Think about it: we all have the same earth, the same fossil layers, the same animals and plants, the same stars—the facts are all the same.

The difference is in the way we all interpret the facts. And why do we interpret facts differently? Because we start with different presuppositions.

These are things that are assumed to be true, without being able to prove them. These then become the basis for other conclusions. All reasoning is based on presuppositions. This becomes especially relevant when dealing with past events.


We all exist in the present—and the facts all exist in the present. When we try to understand how the evidence came about (i.e. where did the animals come from? How did the fossil layers form? etc.), what we are actually trying to do is to connect the past to the present.

However, if we weren’t there in the past to observe events, how can we know what happened so we can explain the present? It would be great to have a time machine so we could know for sure about past events.

Christians of course claim they do, in a sense, have a ‘time machine’. They have a book called the Bible which claims to be the Word of God who has always been there, and has revealed to us the major events of the past about which we need to know.

On the basis of these events (Creation, Fall, Flood, Babel, etc.), we have a set of presuppositions to build a way of thinking which enables us to interpret the evidence of the present.

Evolutionists have certain beliefs about the past/present that they presuppose, e.g. no God (or at least none who performed acts of special creation), so they build a different way of thinking to interpret the evidence of the present.

Thus, when Christians and non-Christians argue about the evidence, in reality they are arguing about their interpretations based on their presuppositions.

That’s why the argument often turns into something like:

‘Can’t you see what I’m talking about?’

‘No, I can’t. Don’t you see how wrong you are?’

‘No, I’m not wrong. It’s obvious that I’m right.’

‘No, it’s not obvious.’ And so on.

These two people are arguing about the same evidence, but they are looking at the evidence through different glasses.

It’s not until these two people recognize the argument is really about the presuppositions they have to start with, that they will begin to deal with the foundational reasons for their different beliefs. A person will not interpret the evidence differently until they put on a different set of glasses—which means to change one’s presuppositions.

Evolution (or Macro-evolution, to be specific) is not a fact! You cannot scientifically prove something that you cannot observe. It's therefore an assumption, or a belief.

The bottom line is that it’s not a matter of who has the better (or the most) “facts on their side.” We need to understand that there are no such things as brute facts—all facts are interpreted.

So what are your presuppositions you are using to interpret these "facts".

You don't have to believe in the Bible's record of things, but try it anyway. Look at the big picture of history from the Bible, look at the same facts through these "biblical glasses" and see if you interpret them differently.

Next, using science, see if that science, when properly understood, confirms (by being consistent with) the interpretation based on the Bible. You will find over and over again that the Bible is confirmed by real science.

[Barry123]

i believe i just got pwned.

dang.

*gives dawkins a call*

[Mattt-VTR]

HaHa ad, yeah he is very good, and very good in what he says, but it comes down to the individual and there beliefs no matter what you say and how smart you sound, but XPT you do put forward your case in a way its hard to come back with something....hence ad getting pwned lol!!

:y:

[XPT_Furio]

i believe i just got pwned.

dang.

*gives dawkins a call*


Christianity, to me, is the one true religion. I know, to you, that may sound awfully dogmatic and narrow-minded.

Jesus said that He alone was the way to the Father (John 14:6), that He alone revealed the Father (Matt. 11:27; Luke 10:22).

But keep this in mind before you ridicule waht I just said: Christians do not go around saying Christianity is the only way because they are arrogant, narrow-minded, stupid, or judgmental.

They do so because they believe what Jesus said.

[Matty_Mills]

Science and religion are both based on theory.
Most things that scientists have proved are theories, not facts. (although personally, evolution FTW)
Most things that religious people believe are theory.
I personally believe that religion is wrong as it causes far too much death and destruction
I also believe that we create our own paths in life.
Miricles in my opinion are simply coincidence, not divine intervention.
I got run over, i survived when i shouldn't have.
It just happened that i landed in a certain position lol.


probably alot of spelling mistakes in here. i appologise

[XPT_Furio]

HaHa ad, yeah he is very good, and very good in what he says, but it comes down to the individual and there beliefs no matter what you say and how smart you sound, but XPT you do put forward your case in a way its hard to come back with something....hence ad getting pwned lol!!

:y:

I don't intend to "win" any debate based on the way i put my feelings across, I just wonder sometimes if people do truly believe in something, or if they cling onto something else which contradicts what they perhaps, want to believe in because it's something they just can't seem to get their head around. Creationism, and to a degree, christianity, is about allowing your heart to rule your head. It's about accepting it as a faith and nothing more. Believing. Same as Evolution is. Not constantly looking for proof to conclude the facts you wish to come to to defunk the bible. Problem is though that those who believe in the evolution "theory" wrongly accept it to be fact and that's where, i beilieve, the problem lies.

Nothing has been proven, it never will, so believe what you want to believe, i guess. :y:

[baker556]

Xpt furio very good explination

i also belive that there is a god, it was the way i was bought up to beleive.

didnt dawkins on his death bed wish he never said or beleived all of those things?!

...and for who said the bible was good for the fire isnt it the most popular book ever sold worldwide?

ive also read in this thread about people being killed or such events happening...these happen as god gave freewill to mankind

You start to belive this when you see someone disabled hasnt walked for years in front of you being blessed and heald by a priest and then begining to walk ! i mean call me crazy but when you see that , thats when you beleive also other injuries or such people with cancer being healed.

I also started to beleive when you hear peoples death experiences they have died and come back to life like 12 hours later only to explain what heaven and hell is like.......people that are not religous who beleive in evolution never beleived in a god they come back to life later and straight away talk about god....now if youve been dead for 12 hours why would you get up straight away and talk about nothing but god...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I9-XxBAEsQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKv3rrFO0LU&feature=related

...im not here for an argument im just posting why i beleive...

[Mattt-VTR]

I also started to beleive when you hear peoples death experiences they have died and come back to life like 12 hours later only to explain what heaven and hell is like.......people that are not religous who beleive in evolution never beleived in a god they come back to life later and straight away talk about god....now if youve been dead for 12 hours why would you get up straight away and talk about nothing but god...


You would be suprised by the powers of the brain, it is like when people have been ''dead'' for 3 or 4 minutes they speak of a bright light, reaching out, etc, but i read somewhere it's something to do with chemicals in the brain and all that. It's no different to when you hallucinate things, it's no different to people who suffer with a mental illness and think they are god, it's no different to taking drugs and feeling the effects, all reasonable explanations.

[Robb]

I believe in god.

Dont believe in the bible, but the general just of it (moral) is right.

[Mattt-VTR]

I believe in god.

Dont believe in the bible, but the general just of it (moral) is right.

Would agree with that tbf.

[JBVTR]

I dont think we'll ever know 100% where we come from but out of all the theorys evolutions the one i would go with as theres actual evidence to back it up.
To me believing in god is like a grown adult still believing in the easter bunny it's a nice idea but come on when you think about how long the worlds been around and how long the bibles existed it seems a bit daft to dedicate you're life to it

somthing to ponder
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff165/joelbarritt/poster39365843do1.jpg

no offence to anyone that beleives in god this is just my opinion :y:

[Mattt-VTR]

I dont think we'll ever know 100% where we come from but out of all the theorys evolutions the one i would go with as theres actual evidence to back it up.
To me believing in god is like a grown adult still believing in the easter bunny it's a nice idea but come on when you think about how long the worlds been around and how long the bibles existed it seems a bit daft to dedicate you're life to it

somthing to ponder
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff165/joelbarritt/poster39365843do1.jpg

no offence to anyone that beleives in god this is just my opinion :y:

Also agree with, that pic just shows the sheer size of the universe!

[Cal]

How can god be real... he created scousers?

Guess everyone's allowed a disasterpiece

[Mattt-VTR]

How can god be real... he created scousers?

Guess everyone's allowed a disasterpiece

Lmao that was nice, bit of rep for you.

[djrem]

Im sorry but any thing that causes people to destroy others in the name of is hindering our process of existance.


"OH HAI, I HATE UR GOD COZ ITZ WRONG. SUICIDE BOMB HUG"

Pathetic.

Religion is man's deadilest invention.

[shooorn94]

Im sorry but any thing that causes people to destroy others in the name of is hindering our process of existance.


"OH HAI, I HATE UR GOD COZ ITZ WRONG. SUICIDE BOMB HUG"

Pathetic.

Religion is man's deadilest invention.

Is it actually religion that causes it though dude?

If you actually study all the religions you'll find that what others believe is not far from what other religions believe. Muslims, jews, christians etc.

I see your view on that though, what with hitler and his ideas for a "perfect world" but did he do it for religion?

Or is what is going on for religion or is something bigger than that, say what you power your shogun with?

Greed starts wars... FACT. :y:

[djrem]

No.

I want a world of holding hands between races and different lols on the internet.

Im greedy for the world to smile and lol in unison.

Greed doesnt cause wars.

My Shogan is powered by diesel.

As much as i dont like the second and third parts of it, watch this:
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

[shooorn94]

No.

I want a world of holding hands between races and different lols on the internet.

Im greedy for the world to smile and lol in unison.

Greed doesnt cause wars.

My Shogan is powered by diesel.

As much as i dont like the second and third parts of it, watch this:
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

Already seen it dude ;)

diesel-oil same difference :p thought you'd got rid anyway?

I'll hold your hand if you want rem. it's a bit sticky though after looking at you avatar for several minutes

[djrem]

IM fleet insured.

This weeks a shogan, next week's a toyota hilux van, week after is a hilux pickup.

Magical world.

As much as we laugh at human sacrifices to make the sun come up and for the crops to grow now.

In another 300 years im sure we will realise we control our lives and will laugh at our primative past.

A clear show of civilisation, is the more civilised and clever, aware and understanding of its environment, the quicker it rejects god.

Evolution is correct.
Ive seen enough evidence searching the web for quotes that its rock solid in my head that a book, scrutenized and edited by religious leaders to benefit them, is not how life became as humans.

/rem's input into thread.

[bullit]

so we were meant to come from adam and eve yes? why are lots of races then. each designs to live in parts of the world better. like they evolved.

[Robb]

so we were meant to come from adam and eve yes? why are lots of races then. each designs to live in parts of the world better. like they evolved.

why do black people have big willies?

[kylie]

im agnostic. i think its impossible to know wether god exists or not. but we do speak about 'god' as if it were a person where it is actually believed to just be a spirit or an entity if you like. i dont understand that if adam and eve were the first creatures on earth, then why did dinosaurs evolve then people. or did they come after the dinosaurs? anyway, i do believe in fate and i believe that evrything happens for a reason and that it is already mapped out for you. wether its good or bad. i also believ that we have all been here before doing exactly the same thing. like the world just expands then goes back in on itself. dejavu anyone. when you think you've been there before. when you're so adamant that the situation you are in has happened before. you suddenly just stop for a moment and remember. like you're not meant to know but the brain is such a complex thing and memory is so strong that evry now and then it sparks a memory that that you didnt even know was possible. its such a strange world and i dont think we are meant to know how it happened or what we are here for. maybe we were given brains so that we could discover this ourselves in time like the biggest puzzle you will ever do in your life. .................anyway. i ahve so many views and theories on this subject. could go on forever but dont want to bore you all.

[bullit]

quantum physics ftw kylie

then thers the egyptions were thousands of years ago.

why are the fossils said to be millions of years old

[XPT_Furio]

quantum physics ftw kylie

then thers the egyptions were thousands of years ago.

why are the fossils said to be millions of years old

All dating methods scientists use are flawed.

They pick the date they like best, based upon their preconceived notion of how old their theory says the object should be. e.g. They started with the assumption that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago, then manipulate the results until they agree with their own conclusion.
Their assumptions dictate their conclusions. Blind samples (namely dinosaur bones) have been sent to scientists for dating and the results sent back nothing more than a laughing stock. Dinosaur bones sent in which were aged at thousands of years, not millions and of course, shells from living snails which were subsequently dated at "thousands" of years old. When scientists talk of fossils being millions of years old, chances are it's actually only a few thousand.

[kylie]

hmmm. watched walking with dinosaurs not long back and it showed you how the earth was so different. just red sand like material with nothingness, then evolved trees and plants etc. something else which was mentioned, was that when the big meteor or whatever it was hit the earth and destroyed all dinosaurs, the earth was left burning for a while and was just a big mess for another few million years. so thats millions of years with dinosaurs on the earth, then millions of years with nothing. that's gotta be like hundreds of millions of years right?

[Slammed_Posi_Vtr]

All dating methods scientists use are flawed.

They pick the date they like best, based upon their preconceived notion of how old their theory says the object should be. e.g. They started with the assumption that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago, then manipulate the results until they agree with their own conclusion.
Their assumptions dictate their conclusions. Blind samples (namely dinosaur bones) have been sent to scientists for dating and the results sent back nothing more than a laughing stock. Dinosaur bones sent in which were aged at thousands of years, not millions and of course, shells from living snails which were subsequently dated at "thousands" of years old. When scientists talk of fossils being millions of years old, chances are it's actually only a few thousand.


Hmm yeah but most fossils take longer than that just to fossilise, thier dating methods arn't that flawed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossils ;)

[XPT_Furio]

hmmm. watched walking with dinosaurs not long back and it showed you how the earth was so different. just red sand like material with nothingness, then evolved trees and plants etc. something else which was mentioned, was that when the big meteor or whatever it was hit the earth and destroyed all dinosaurs, the earth was left burning for a while and was just a big mess for another few million years. so thats millions of years with dinosaurs on the earth, then millions of years with nothing. that's gotta be like hundreds of millions of years right?

Makes me laugh as well.

[XPT_Furio]

Hmm yeah but most fossils take longer than that just to fossilise, thier dating methods arn't that flawed

Yes they are. carbon dating is just an example. For instance, there is far more carbon in the atmosphere now than there was not so long ago. It's impossible to determine how much was around before so using this method is just hopeless in the extreme. Scientists openly admit that this method can only be relied upon up to a timescale of 50,000 years (probably over-exaggerated), yet this method was originally used to come to the conclusion that dinosaurs were MILLIONS of years old .....

[Slammed_Posi_Vtr]

but they used carbon samples from 50 odd years ago, you may be right but i dont think dinosaurs were around thousands of years ago tbh

[kylie]

maybe there were really no such things as dinosaurs. you've gotta see it to believe it! and ive never seen one except on the tele. just some ploy to make loads of money on films n documentaries n make kids go out and buy loads of dinosaur toys.

[Slammed_Posi_Vtr]

maybe there were really no such things as dinosaurs. you've gotta see it to believe it! and ive never seen one except on the tele. just some ploy to make loads of money on films n documentaries n make kids go out and buy loads of dinosaur toys.

always another theory lol

[kylie]

i do think from what i have seen on documentaries etc that what scientist or dinosaur-ologists(whatever they are called) have come up with does seem like the only possible and logical answer. even if it is not exactly right, it seems plausable. well wouldnt it be a bitch if all the work and they had done was completely wrong and dinosaurs looked and acted nothing like they have made them out to be. but technology and knowledge is expanding and will keep on doing, so maybe in a few hundred years they will discover new things that bring them closer to the truth. who knows?

[XPT_Furio]

i do think from what i have seen on documentaries etc that what scientist or dinosaur-ologists(whatever they are called) have come up with does seem like the only possible and logical answer. even if it is not exactly right, it seems plausable. well wouldnt it be a bitch if all the work and they had done was completely wrong and dinosaurs looked and acted nothing like they have made them out to be. but technology and knowledge is expanding and will keep on doing, so maybe in a few hundred years they will discover new things that bring them closer to the truth. who knows?

The truth is closer than you think; hard evidence is more difficult to come by, you don't even have to be religious to believe that life on earth is not without planning, reason and design.

[baker556]

surely if the earth was burning for millions of years or what was said previously in this thread then all the fossils would have been wiped out along with the bones of the dinousoars

and if dinousoars were millions of years old surely there bones would have rotted away its funny how they can find all the bones and put them together !