immobiliser reader coil

[shadow101]

hi i dont know a great deal about cars but last night my car got broke into and the steering wheel was nicked! so my cars in a bit of a wreck but anyway i attached a new wheel (without the airbag for now) and im getting a flashing light for the key immobiliser whenever i try to start the engine.

I noticed some damage around the ignition key barrel, there is a coil of copper wires partially exposed since the plastics been chipped off by the theif. Anyway from what little ive read it would seem this part being damaged is whats stopping the car starting but i have no idea whatsoever on how to fix it, or if it needs replaced etc. In haynes it mentions the ignition lock contains the reader coil and the key contains the microchip and recieves a signal from this, obviously i had the key so its not damaged or anything.

Any links to information on this or how to by-pass even just so i can drive to a garage or whatever would be really appreciated!

[artnmotion]

Get a mobile Elec out to check it for you first

[shadow101]

i read somewhere there should be a way to reset it but the manual doesnt have any info on that, id like to give that a go 1st since all the garages etc are closed. Its a citroen saxo vtr year 2000. Ill call someone out if i cant fix it but id like to give it a try, i really need it up and running asap rather than waiting till monday for a mechanic to charge £50 to look at it and say 'oh yea you need a new <insert name piece> thatll cost £250'

[Scott]

sounds like the transponder pick up ring has been mashed

[Simo]

Thats right Scott... I have a smashed one in my room too... As Dannysp8 put his finger in the plastic outer casing, which I had taken off... and got his finger stuck inside the bugger!

I had to chop the plastic and copper aerial up to get his finger out. (the daft tw@t)

Shadow101, do you still have the plastic front section of the ignition barrel? If so, you might be able to re-connect the copper coil to the pickup... will be fragile, but might be enough to get it to a garage?

If not, you'll need a new pickup coil. The coil should just be the receiver, so as long as you have the transponder and key intact, you should be able to simply fit a new coil... but not 100% sure what the box next to the coil does. smileys/smiley5.gif

[Scott]

and got his finger stuck inside the bugger!


O/T: bet thats not the first time either smileys/smiley17.gif

[shadow101]

well to be honest i dont know what the transpondor box looks like but from what ive read its unqiue to my car so dont see why the theif would want it. Anyway i have the plastic and the copper coil wrapped round it, some of the plastic is chipped off at the edge. I took it off and the copper wire unwound a fair bit and looks like its been cut where the wire goes in to the barrel. So basically its got the plastic with the copper round it but disconnected from the inside. If i can even 1 time start the car that would be excellent as at this rate ill have to get someone out to tow it = £

[VTaaRon]

i thought the light blinking just indicated that someone had set it off there is a way to reset the immob in the manual you could try it and see if you only need to get the car started once it may do the trick tho i could be completely wrong ill go have a look in my manual and get back

[Scott]

transponder box should be on the other side of the dash up near fuse box so unlikely that it was touched.

[frilla]

when i first bought my car the immboiliser light kept flashing. does this od it with you? when you turn the key does the car try and fail tot start? because it did this with mine and they thought it was a flat battery jump started it and it worked. you could try that to start it once? i may be wrong though

[Simo]

What I meant was that the copper wire attaches to a black box inside the plastic casing arounf the ignition.

You mention the wire is broken.

If you reconnect the copepr aerial it is very likely that the immobiliser will be able to be disarmed again. With the breakin the wire though, the receiver isnt working.

[VTaaRon]

so what is the red light doing? is the green light on at all?

[shadow101]

ah well i think i might have snapped the copper wire trying to get the cover back on..it must have been attached before cause when i took it off the 1st time it unwrapped 1/2 the wire and spent 5 minutes putting it back round the plastic bit, its sort of hard to get to the bit inside...what ill do is take a picture or 2 and host them somewhere to show exactly how it looks and whats happening..maybe a video too

[VTaaRon]

thats a good idea the manual has some suggestions it may just be that the code was entered 3 times incorrectly and you can overide this if you read the manual page 73

[Scott]

he doesnt enter a code though, its a later style one with chip in the key

[VTaaRon]

sorry mybad do the later models not have the keypads?

[shadow101]

no its a microchip and some transponder thingy..i took some pitures but its dark here so they kinda suck, will get them on the comp in a min to show exactly what its like. Also i think possibly we have different manuals? my page 73 is on coolant levels i dont have any other manaul except the haynes 1.

[VTaaRon]

yeah sorry think my cars a bit older then yours i have the key pad immobiliser and a toad cat1 installed

[shadow101]

hmm ok ill have to hunt for this usb cable for the camera..but anyway yea i had another look i can see the copper wire going into it, looks a bit smashed from the front entry point where the wire enters though..basically the plastic bit was originally on with the copper wire all connected so i dont think reconnecting it will get the engine running...im unsure as to why someone would break in and cut part of the plastic off exposing this copper 'aerial' or what theyeve done

anyway ill try to get some pictures to make it all clearer

[Simo]

The copepr wire is an 'aerial' that receives the code from the key... which is then interlinked withthe black box behind the dash. If the code is recognised correctly, the ecu disarms the immobiliser.

Your problem is that the aerial/pickup/copper wire is knackered, so that the sugnal from the key cannot be read and passed on...

The copper wire is wrapped behind the front face of the palstic surrounding the ignition barrel.

Its likely that whoever broke into your car smashed it up in an attempt to smash something into the ignition barrel to start the car (which wasnt going to happen, as it was immobilised)

Getting your car broken into is bad enough... but worse if a thick as fook thief breaks in and smashes stuff up because he/she doesnt know how it operates.

[shadow101]

yea it sounds like it..basically what im looking for then is a new aerial then, but most places are shut or double price on a sunday and could really use it being able to start on monday. Been looking for buying a replacement (dunno if it would work even then) but dont really see any about..i take it sorting this sort of thing is just left to the citroen dealer?

[Scott]

nah head to a scrappy and get another pick up ring, it shouldnt matter its from another car it only picks up then transmits the "code" from the key

[shadow101]

ah ok...im not too sure how id connect a new 1 though as i have no idea where the wire goes once it goes into the ignition barrel..and i cant see any way to take that off to follow it. Anyway i have some pictures there not great quality but shows better than i can explain

wires (http://uk.geocities.com/k_t62@btopenworld.com/DSCI0008.JPG)

reader coil (http://uk.geocities.com/k_t62@btopenworld.com/DSCI0009.JPG)

ignition view (http://uk.geocities.com/k_t62@btopenworld.com/DSCI0017.JPG)

ignition 2 (http://uk.geocities.com/k_t62@btopenworld.com/DSCI0018.JPG)

closeup (http://uk.geocities.com/k_t62@btopenworld.com/DSCI0021.JPG)

coil 2 (http://uk.geocities.com/k_t62@btopenworld.com/DSCI0023.JPG)

ignition 3 (http://uk.geocities.com/k_t62@btopenworld.com/DSCI0025.JPG)

startup clip (http://uk.geocities.com/k_t62@btopenworld.com/DSCI0026.AVI)

If you look at the ignition view link you can see the hole at the bottom of the ignition barrel where the wire comes out and is broke off..so does the entire plastic surrounding the barrel just come off?

[shadow101]

ok think ive found out what the problem is sort of. Basically i ripped the plastic covering off the ignition barrel and found a circuit board with 2 copper connectors, i assumed there was only 1 connection as thats how i found the coil connected after the break-in. So anyway ive tried connecting both sides of the coil to the 2 inside but still no joy, is there anything else you need to do to 'reset' it? like disconnect the battery or a switch/button somewhere? if i can drive it soon i might manage to get to a scrapyard and have this replaced

[VTaaRon]

get some spare wire from somewhere and bypass the disconnected part best thing you could do

[shadow101]

well there is plenty of copper wire on the coil to connect with already, ive tried connecting to the metal bars inside and the remaining copper wire parts that are still connected to those bars but just the same. it would help if i knew whether it mattered which way round i connected it or if it doesnt matter since its just a coil.

[VTaaRon]

it shouldnt matter how much distance is there between the broken pieces?

[shadow101]

hmmm dont see what you mean..basically i have the coil with 2 ends, and the circuit board inside this plastic housing that has 2 metal bars, and about 0.5cm of copper wire coming off it (where its been cut from the coil). Reconnecting them hasnt made any difference. As i said it would help if i had any idea what im doing..this circuit board just beneath the ignition that im talking about..is that the transponder? could i just get a cheap replacement to make it work?

[shadow101]

ok basically been messing about with it still not much different..2 things i could use knowing are:

the circuit board underneath the ignition barrel connecting to the copper coil..is this the transpondor? or is that something to do with converting the signal

i noticed just a while ago that the gearstick cover has been lifted up exposing underneath..i dont know if anything was in there so basically is there anything of value typically put in there by citroen?