Query on engine managment light

[lrbsax]

Hi all. I bought my first sax ( VTR ) yesterday and what a bundle of fun it is, however I have an intermintant engine mangement light showing. It comes on for like 10 seconds at a time then goes off. It comes on irregularly too. Any info would be much welcomed. There is a rather badly fitted airfilter on it and was wondering if this could be causing the light to show.

Thankyou in advance.

[AdskiVTR]

To be honest that could be anything best thing to do is a diagnostics check or try resetting the ecu

[lrbsax]

Thanks for the response. Iam guessing its a citreon dealership then or can I have it checked anywhere?

[lrbsax]

Ps how do you reset the ecu??

[BobC]

Hi,

The engine warning lights indicates problems with the ignition, fuel injection or emissions system.

Most garages have a diagnostic checker that can read the error codes which cause the engine warning light to come on and to help diagnose the cause.

Could be anything from clogged air filter, dodgy spark plugs, clogged injectors to lambda / oxygen sensors to an aging catalytic converter.

Best to give it a good service: replace air & fuel filter, plugs, oil & oil filter and see how she goes.

Cheers

[saxovtsmad]

any garage with a diagnostic will do it about £30 to £50 unless you know someone

[lrbsax]

Thanks guys, I have a mate who works at a garage so I will take to him. Sounds like its nothing to serious as it still goes really well.

[jinx]

If it flashes then its okay if its constant then pretty serious.

[lrbsax]

Jinx. It does not flash when it comes on, it does go off after around 5 to 10 seconds. It comes on when it feels like it and goes off around 10 seconds later. I really feel it has something to do with the rather poorly fitted ( i use the term fitted loosely!!! ) air filter. I need to find a new peice of piping that feeds the air filter if anyone has one I can purloin ;) Stock is fine!

[Sparco_Tom]

try sorting the filter out, then give it a good service and maybe a new cat

[senna1]

If it flashes then its okay if its constant then pretty serious.

Hi,

If it flashes it is MORE serious than just the mil light on, such as a misfire could cause the mil light to flash which could damage the catalystic converter,

[lrbsax]

try sorting the filter out

Ok, I have replaced the said filter with a new one ( aftermarket of course :D in fact its a pipercross induction kit )

Result, offending light is less frequent now which is good. Idle is a little rough now and again but it always has been, but coming back to the light thingy, I have noticed that if I am gentle on the throttle ie not ragging the shit out of the car the light stays off. Could this indicate a problem with the cat, see my way of thinking is that if the light is off all the time when driving in a correct fashion this would indicate to me that there is no excessive build up of nasty earth killing stuff, unlike when one is driving like a twat, the cat is having difficulty dispearsing said noxious gasses resultin in sensors relaying this info back to the ecu and the ecu then lighting the wee lamp on the dash.

Forgive my ramblings of a mad man lol

Think I will change the plugs and leads next in an effort to eliminate the rough Idle problem.

[BobC]

That's pretty good. Yes do the obvious stuff and see if it improves further.

Perhaps, others might chip in if they have seen an engine warning light flickering. Seems a touch too sensitive for me to be convinced its oxygen sensor or cat related just yet.

[Sparco_Tom]

my car developed the same problem last week mate, swapped the cats over done a service without issue now :)

[titchster]

You mention the idle is a bit rough on occasions?
Perhaps the Idle Control Valve is a bit dicky, take it out and give it a clean, see if it makes a difference.

[lrbsax]

Ok update on said light. I had it in the shop for a check on the machine and it came back as the oxegen sensor and mixture thingy ma bob ( cant bloody remember the precise terms he said lol ) Could the mixture thing be related to the oxegen sensor or vice versa and also cause the rough idle ie running a tad rich?

Also would the problems above shoot my cat, maybe replace cat as a precautionary measure.

Where would I find the idle control valve so I can give it a scrub?

Cheers

P.s where can I get the little saxperiance window stickers?

[Fergie]

Cannot help with your first questions but for the stickers, try here (http://www.saxperience.com/shop/stickers.php)

[BobC]

Ok update on said light. I had it in the shop for a check on the machine and it came back as the oxegen sensor and mixture thingy ma bob ( cant bloody remember the precise terms he said lol ) Could the mixture thing be related to the oxegen sensor or vice versa and also cause the rough idle ie running a tad rich?

Also would the problems above shoot my cat, maybe replace cat as a precautionary measure.

Where would I find the idle control valve so I can give it a scrub?

Yes it can. If your oxygen sensor is clogged then it cannot smell the mixture properly and tells the ECU that the mixture is lean. The ECU makes the mixture richer, the unburnt fuel coats the precious metal in your catalytic converter and the idle is rough. The oxygen sensor will need to be changed. Then see how it behaves.

Idle control valve: http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=174710

[lrbsax]

BobC some good info there matey, Thankyou. :y:

Right so I will change the sensor, BUT, VTR`s have a pre and apost cat sensor if I am not mistaken, Should I change both or just the pre.

The car looks like it has been running rich for a while as the exhaust tip has blackened up rather quickly considering when I bought it it was shiney.

[furioFELL]

It's more than likely the after cat. sensor mate, this is the sensor that relays the fueling info to the ecu

[lrbsax]

awesome thankyou very much :)

[BobC]

The sensor with the green connector before the cat does the fuel mixture whilst the blue connector sensor after the cat makes sure that the cat is doing its thing...

Sadly, you may be better of changing them both. £s I know...

[furioFELL]

yea fair enuf bobc, they both do the same kinda thng just the after cat one is the one that tells the ecu that the fueling is still wrong after it's been through the cat correct? plus these are the ones open to getting more shit on and around them as they're under the car

The sensors are around £35 from motor factors

[lrbsax]

Just a thought. I have found out that the valve stem oil seals are not the in the best of condition as the saxo puffs smoke on initial start up. Could this be interfering with the pre cat sensor and throwing up the fault?

Obviously the oils seals will need replacing ( sigh ) as I dont wanna get shot of the car. Would it be worthwhile doing the rings while at it?

[BobC]

Unless the smoke is blue then the startup smoke may not be oil. Perhaps the spark plugs need to be changed to burn the fuel in the cylinders more effectively on start up. The over rich fuel mixture is not helping the sensors and cat.

Best to tackle these individually, no need to whip off her head unless it really is necessary.

[lrbsax]

Sadly bob the smoke is blue :(

[BobC]

Ok. Sounds like you are sure its your oil stem seals.

I did read that some garages can change these without removing the head. It involves blowing compressed air into the cylinders via spark plug hole to keep the valves in place then using a special tool to compress the springs.

You could ring around and find a garage that can do it this way as it may save you a few bucks on labour charges.

[lrbsax]

Bob I have been quoted 300 to 350 with a guy I know who owns a garage. Do you think this is a reasonable price?

Do you think I should do the rings while the old girl has got her top off?

[BobC]

Sounds reasonable to me. You are better going to someone you know but more importantly that you trust.

If he takes her head off: then you are looking at new cylinder head gasket set (inc stem seals), cylinder head bolts, timing belt, tensioner and probably a water pump.

If you ask him to do the rings he may double the quote. Ask him to do a compression test to see if you really need it. Hopefully you are just being cautious. Has the car done a lot of miles?

[lrbsax]

He quoted 450 if he did the rings as well. The car has done only 83000 miles with a full srvice history. He did say the rings would not need doing just I thought it may be a good idea while the head is off.

I do trust the guy I have known him around8 years now, he helped me modify my old mazda 323 4x4 turbo rally and he owns a 10 second quater mile corrado ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJBWJdV4iZg&feature=related ) as well as his own garage. He was the guy who put the sax on the machine for me too. I get good mates rates :D

[BobC]

Ok. Take sounds like you should take his advice.

[lrbsax]

Thanks Bob. Your info has helped me loads. I will keep you updated as to how the old girl runs when the work has been completed :y:

[BobC]

Good luck dude, always disappointing to be shelling out good wedge after buying a car.

[lrbsax]

Tell me about it. I thought it was a good un but I guess all that glitters is not gold. Gonna stick with it mind because........well I have no choice lol. Its either that or go back to driving a boring laguna diesel which I dont wanna do. It dont make me smile like the little sax does.

[BobC]

If it's any consolation the other french hot hatch the va va voom (Clio) takes just as much love, attention and wedge!

[lrbsax]

mmmmm. See I have had 3 frenchies up to date and my previous 2 was ultra reliable ( megane and laguna ) but this is my first citroen.

I guess you have had some experiance with clio`s then. I can only hope that this little car is not going to condem me to a life of work to fix car type senario. Still it cant be any more expensive than my ex wife lol.

[BobC]

Sure have. The Clio was "high maintenance". My son loved clipping the kerb in it and each time it needed a sub-frame, must be a common ailment as one time I think we must have rung every scrappy in the country without any luck! He claims he was never doing more than 5 mph :fcuk: Either they are made of paper mache or he was going a tad faster...

Bearings, broken timing belt & bent valves... Always something, so I know how you feel.

[lrbsax]

Sure have. The Clio was "high maintenance". My son loved clipping the kerb in it and each time it needed a sub-frame, He claims he was never doing more than 5 mph :fcuk: Either they are made of paper mache or he was going a tad faster...


lol Either the kerb was the size of a house and/or your son fibs. Being a child once ( possibly still ) and having 3 delightful cherubs of my own I would hedge my bets on the latter. And they think we dont know hehe.

[lrbsax]

Ok a little update on My saxomaphone.

Originaly this was a query on an engine managment light which has now turned into a rather long post covering different things. Anyhoo enough crazed ramblings... It was diagnosed as Lamba sensor then possible valve stem oil seals perished. I have Put the motor in the car hospital to get better. I got her back on friday just gone and I was correct. Valve stem oils seals was very badly perished to the point that they was like plastic and very britle, at least the rings were not dead :) but it does not end there. My mate who fixes my motors ( who is a very good friend and comes highly recommended ) replaced said Valve Stem Oil Seals and he also carried out a full decoke, Head skim and replace head gasket as it was seeping, removed and flushed out the radiator ( as it had oil in it :wacko: ) and the replaced it, did a coolant change aswell, put a new belt on and then proceeded to polish the ports for me ( :y: )

Ok the result is car runs sweet as a nut now how ever the light is still on showing the same fault as before and still idling a little rough probably due to over fueling because of pre cat sensor :wall: so it looks like its a new pre cat sensor at the end of the month and see how we go from there. Honestly I dont care that much cos after a week without my car I am just so very happy to get it back. I will keep you all updated as per the progress and fingers crossed once the sensor is done that will be it! However judging by the amount of post that have been written since the last time I was on I fear this may not be the case lol.

Cheers

[ainttoshabby]

EML on after new cat and sensors, Need to sort out for MOT, any ideas tried everything and dont want to pay for an Orignal cat......

It appears it is the cat, as all saxo's are like this. Spoke to manufacturer of Cats and said there is no cure but to fit original part. Even disconnected battery for 24 Hrs to clear error cod.

Any one else sorted this problem out....

:zainy: