Wet carpet, Have I missed anything?

[Rez]

Alright guys & girls.
the driverside carpet front and back is very wet, I've use the search and this is what I done over the last week.
1 Seal the Aerial nut near the interior light.
2 Had the head lining down and checked the drain pipes were clear, they were.
3 Had the boot seal off, cleaned all the crap out and refitted it.
4 Had the rear lower bench up, That was dry under it apart from a small drip in the very corner.
I'm kind of thinking it could be the seal around the rear driverside window. Are they prone to leak there?
The car ain't losing any coolant so the heater matrix must be ok plus it don't stink like coolant does it's just wet with rain water.
Is there anything else that I have missed. The passenger side is bone dry front ant rear.
Thanks in advance guys. Rez.

Update: Still looking(think I've found it) but read the below thread It's a huge help.
Right anyone who has water leaks on the Sax Have a read of the below thread.
http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57585&highlight=water

[Lloydie]

Spray the car with a hose and get a mate inside to see where the water is coming in?

[deks36]

sunroof seal?

[Mcinabout]

I heard something on here a while back that if you place charcoal in your car it will get rid of the dampness/smells in your car (Please correct me if im wrong),,but that will be when you find the problem. I agree with Lloydie,, my bruv haS a similar problem in his boot in his Honda integra DC5 and water was getting in where his spare wheel is in his boot,,and he chucked water over the car and searched for leaks but to this day he still gets it a little bit where his spare wheel is. But with your problem Rez i would check the seals on the passenger doors etc as it maybe coming through that way. Hope you get it sorted mate.

[Rez]

Spray the car with a hose and get a mate inside to see where the water is coming in?

sunroof seal?

I heard something on here a while back that if you place charcoal in your car it will get rid of the dampness/smells in your car (Please correct me if im wrong),,but that will be when you find the problem. I agree with Lloydie,, my bruv haS a similar problem in his boot in his Honda integra DC5 and water was getting in where his spare wheel is in his boot,,and he chucked water over the car and searched for leaks but to this day he still gets it a little bit where his spare wheel is. But with your problem Rez i would check the seals on the passenger doors etc as it maybe coming through that way. Hope you get it sorted mate.

Thanks guys I'll keep digging until I find.

[chrisman99]

This is the exact same problem I have. Its deffinatly not coming from the ceiling because there is no water marks or anything and all the door and window seals look ok and no sign of wettness on the doors or seats. I think it might be possible that its comming from under the dashboard on the right hand side of the footwell because the carpet underlay is wet up the side but dunno if it couldve just soaked it up? If it was coming from here any ideas on where its getting in?

[Rez]

This is the exact same problem I have. Its deffinatly not coming from the ceiling because there is no water marks or anything and all the door and window seals look ok and no sign of wettness on the doors or seats. I think it might be possible that its comming from under the dashboard on the right hand side of the footwell because the carpet underlay is wet up the side but dunno if it couldve just soaked it up? If it was coming from here any ideas on where its getting in?

Mate same here it ain't coming from the roof, I've just wet it for 5 mins with the hose and nothing from the top. I checked the hole wasn't blocked near the drivers side bonnet hinge to. I think I might have that black plastic cover off next in front of the windscreen.

[afn33]

Hi,Water leaks !! many cars I have had have had water leaks, it is often a slow painstaking process to find water leaks.Firstly no amount of mates will be able to tell you where water is coming in if the carpet is laid down in the car, by its very nature water searches its own way and will find any path to enter your car. Check all welded seals inside the bonnet and bulkhead, the pipe that generally comes down through between outer and inner wing clean them look again at your sunroof-don't spray water isolate every known source of likely water ingress pour water on these areas separately being careful that you do not let the water go into other areas i.e. pour water on your windscreen do not let the same water go onto your car door, you must isolate all areas when you are trying to find out water ingress often this ingress can be seen but not without stripping your motor first..tell tale signs of water ingress are rust around the area Make sure the main pipe often in the centre of the bonnet is free of leaves any decaying leaves in that pipe is a sure sign that the pipe is blocked..clean it wash the car carefully and watch all your draining points.. Oh is it only when the car is standing that these leaks occur? Check your door window seals take them out and replace them looking at the seal and the back of it any sign of rust and you can bet this is the source of ingress best of luck mate, any further problems or queries PM me, see if I can be of further help..

[chrisman99]

What hole near the drivers side bonnet hinge? maybe i need to check this. why would something being blocked get water inside the car tho?

[Scattle]

Sunroof probably, common problem.

[Rez]

Sunroof probably, common problem.

No mate it ain't the sunroof that's water tight(I don't know how from all the post's on leaking sunroofs) it's coming from somewhere else and it's doing my box in.

[Scattle]

No mate it ain't the sunroof that's water tight(I don't know how from all the post's on leaking sunroofs) it's coming from somewhere else and it's doing my box in.
Hmm not sure then..good luck though!

[chrisman99]

What other tubes and stuff should i be checking for blockages or whatever?

[Rez]

What other tubes and stuff should i be checking for blockages or whatever?

Mate normally roof leaks come from the sunroof seal or from the 2 drain tubes that drain water from the sunroof gully. They are located above the head liner and run down the windscreen pillars either side and down to the bottom of the car. They can get blocked and combined with a shit sunroof seal lead to major leaks. To get to them undo the Visor's, Grab handles, Interior light surround, Pull the door seals down, unscrew the alarm censor's if you have them on the windscreen pillars and unclip the plastic pillar trims. Then carefully pull the headliner down a bit and you'll see the rubber tube either side at each front sunroof corner. Pull them off, blow down them to make sure they ain't blocked them get something like a large tie wrap and poke it through the metal hole to clear it out. Fully push the tube back on and repeat for the other side. Then put all the bit's back and your good to go. The actual sunroof seal can look in good nick but still leak as it flattens out over time from the pressure on it and heat from the sun, So it's a good starting point to change that first. Also if your drives on a slope like my dads his 106 kept filling up with water under the rear bench and the boot was always piss wet and what was happening was that water was coming through the sunroof seal, running along the inside of the headliner and coming out down either side near where the headliner ends above the boot. He thought the leak was at the back of his 106 but changing the sunroof seal cured it and it's now dry as a bone. Hope this helps, Rez.

[SAM33R]

puddles in footwells was heater matrix for me

[qpr4eva4]

i was thinking heater matrix but i dont no what side they are situated on the saxos on whether it would leak on the passenger side or drivers side

[Rez]

puddles in footwells was heater matrix for me

i was thinking heater matrix but i dont no what side they are situated on the saxos on whether it would leak on the passenger side or drivers side

Hey guys thanks but it ain't the matrix because if it was I'd be losing coolant and I not. I marked the side of the rad 4 days ago and the level hasn't changed.

[SAM33R]

easy way to check is too see if the foot vents from the heaters are wet or dripping water....

[Rez]

easy way to check is too see if the foot vents from the heaters are wet or dripping water....

Checked them mate and they are bone dry inside covered in dust actually. I've been out this morning carefully pouring water over all the seals one at a time again and nothing no water coming in. This weekend I'm going to get the carpet up and have a look at the floor and seam seals. Had to remove the 3 front chassis bungs earlier, there was water behind those, lot's of it.

[chrisman99]

Which direction would the water be coming from if it was the drainage tubes or whatever? Im sure I read somewhere something about putting talc down to get an idea of where the water was coming from or something. You reckon that would work?

[afn33]

Bloody hell!! still no progress mate. I have had water leaks and found them on loads of cars, many from yesteryear I JUST WISH I was there to help you, You can spend hours looking for water leaks, day after day after day.You must approach this searching for water leaks slowly and methodically, you must isolate every area, get a jug and slowly pour water on to the different areas but keep the water of the others if you don't you will not know where the hell you are with this..Look at welded cleated seams inside the bonnet [a favourite source of leak for the Austin Maestro] pour water on them then inspect the inside of the car, then go to the windscreen gently poor water on that keep it off the door off the wings too, next take all weather seals off the car [favourite source of leak for the Vauxhall chevette] look behind them any sign of rust here and you will have your source..Go to the sunroof and pour water into the channel but not over the door[a favourite source of leak for the Cavalier] then trace the path...watch where the water flows from and remember this, a friend of mine once said water cannot flow upwards, 'wanna bet', I said, block that pipe and see..Water leaks serve to puzzle even the best of us, the best sleuths, that is why lots of us give them to garages to sort and fix..what do they do just this route what I am asking you to follow.. best of luck mate hope this is sorted soon for you...

[McBain]

I've got a big grommet missing from a hole in the floor by my passenger seat. Have a look there, you might have to lift the seats tho.

[Rez]

I've got a big grommet missing from a hole in the floor by my passenger seat. Have a look there, you might have to lift the seats tho.

Thanks mate, all the plugs are in and sealed with silicon, in fact I've took them out today to let the water out. Will be resealing them though. I've found the leak it was under the washer motor one of the rubber bolt seals at the side of the blower intake was worse for wear so I've sealed that as well. I'm giving up today but it's forecast a load of rain so I can't wait to see what happens. If it fills up again I'm just going to leave it and charge the local kids to go paddling in it;).

[chrisman99]

you sure thats where is was? how was it gettin in the car from the washer motor?

[Rez]

you sure thats where is was? how was it gettin in the car from the washer motor?

Hi mate, can't be 100% because I'm having wo wait to the sealant to dry before I test it. For a picture just like what was wrong I've put a link at the bottom of my first post where the red and blue writing is. It's a bit of information all about Sax leaks. Page 2 Doubledavies put pics of it on his, have a look. P's mine was wet inside up the side of the footwell including the insulation. So I'm pretty sure that was the problem on mine.

[Rez]

Ok now I'm stressed it's rained over night and the carpet front and back on the drivers side are soaked again. I felt sure it was that blower bolt gromet. So until we get some good weather and I can get the carpet out and dry the car I'm giving up for now.
This has only started over the last couple of weeks as I alway's checked the carpet was dry after washing the car from having it. Over the last few weeks I've had the car on jacks a lot for different jobs so I'm thinking a seam has cracked. Another note is that it's filling up whilst the car is stood still.
Another side affect now is that the car is starting to smell of stagnent water which isn't pleasant.

[Rez]

Update:

Loads of heavy rain last night and for the first time I can see evidence. Right below the accelerator pedal on the carpet and mat there's loads of water droplets this morning sat on the top and just under the mat I could see where the water has run down and pooled.
Seems that now I'm going to have to get the dash out(or maybe just undone so I can move it back enough to have a look) Any advice on doing this? before I start would be sweet. Also there is loads of sound proofing on the bulk head that will need to come off. Is this suck on?
It must be a cracked seems or some rot up there somewhere.

[afn33]

Ok now I'm stressed it's rained over night and the carpet front and back on the drivers side are soaked again. I felt sure it was that blower bolt gromet. So until we get some good weather and I can get the carpet out and dry the car I'm giving up for now.
This has only started over the last couple of weeks as I alway's checked the carpet was dry after washing the car from having it. Over the last few weeks I've had the car on jacks a lot for different jobs so I'm thinking a seam has cracked. Another note is that it's filling up whilst the car is stood still.
Another side affect now is that the car is starting to smell of stagnent water which isn't pleasant.

Then next it will be the forever misting of windows that you will get due to the heat and condensation inside the car[more so in the warm weather] .I feel sure a water leak of this magnitude will show itself by rust forming where the ingress is,you should be able to find this my friend, forget grommets on floors WATER would only transfer upwards if the car was moving or a tube was blocked, yours leaks when stood overnight so forget floors look at the bulk head and firewall as its called [grommets and firewall grommets any missing any wiring loom look as though it should have a fitted Grommet any other thing going inside the car that looks suspect, move from there looking and looking trying things in a systematic way till you find this leak, if you don't find it soon I am at the end of a phone, pm me I will talk you through what I know.. one other thought have you a radio aerial either on the roof or the side channel of this car? Stagnant water misting windows what a f.ck these water leaks are to find..You will though find it, it is slow methodical work that finds water leaks, not it could be this try that then you are all over the place..best of luck finding this leak mate I have every confidence that you will, remember when your stressed 'Fortune favours the brave'..

[Rez]

Then next it will be the forever misting of windows that you will get due to the heat and condensation inside the car[more so in the warm weather] .I feel sure a water leak of this magnitude will show itself by rust forming where the ingress is,you should be able to find this my friend, forget grommets on floors WATER would only transfer upwards if the car was moving or a tube was blocked, yours leaks when stood overnight so forget floors look at the bulk head and firewall as its called [grommets and firewall grommets any missing any wiring loom look as though it should have a fitted Grommet any other thing going inside the car that looks suspect, move from there looking and looking trying things in a systematic way till you find this leak, if you don't find it soon I am at the end of a phone, pm me I will talk you through what I know.. one other thought have you a radio aerial either on the roof or the side channel of this car? Stagnant water misting windows what a f.ck these water leaks are to find..You will though find it, it is slow methodical work that finds water leaks, not it could be this try that then you are all over the place..best of luck finding this leak mate I have every confidence that you will, remember when your stressed 'Fortune favours the brave'..

Thaks mate, The aerial is sealed one of the first things I did a few weeks ago. The only thing that's worrying me is getting behind the dash because I have no idea what I need to remove and what is bolted and wired in behind it. The haynes is useless for this really so I'll be going in blind unless someone can give me a bit of advice about getting it out or freeing up some access.
At least for the first time I now have it pin pointed to an area of the car. Once I can get to it I'm going to use seem seal and redo all the seems, silicon anything that comes through and block up any holes on that side.

[VTurboR]

have you got your arches on the rear because if you havent your wheels will spray water through your boot vents getting your car all wet lol

hope this helps

[Rez]

have you got your arches on the rear because if you havent your wheels will spray water through your boot vents getting your car all wet lol

hope this helps

Thanks for that mate, yep the arches are in place and the boot carpet and floor has been dry all along mate. It's coming in behind the dash on the drivers side. Found water droplets after the rain last night below the accelerator pedal on the mat and carpet. I been looking for this for weeks but the first visual evidence was only left this morning.

[VTurboR]

Thanks for that mate, yep the arches are in place and the boot carpet and floor has been dry all along mate. It's coming in behind the dash on the drivers side. Found water droplets after the rain last night below the accelerator pedal on the mat and carpet. I been looking for this for weeks but the first visual evidence was only left this morning.

have you checked under your carpet where the wish bone (i think) bolts to the car?? just gussing now though lol

any time:y:

[Rez]

have you checked under your carpet where the wish bone (i think) bolts to the car?? just gussing now though lol

any time:y:

Thanks again mate, No I haven't actually had the carpet up yet so I'll check there when I do at some point over the weekend.:y:

[afn33]

Thanks again mate, No I haven't actually had the carpet up yet so I'll check there when I do at some point over the weekend.:y:

Don't take the dash out for heavens sake,do not do any unnecessary work you will be more despondent the more you do, particularly if your search is fruitless, do not do anything on a whim, taking the dash out, apart from it being horse work its probably unnecessary, loosen the carpet from the side plastic retainers put your hand under the carpet high up in the foot-well is it wet there, if it is this is as good as an indication as your going to get as to this leak coming in from the engine bay and running down the slope of the firewall or bulk head inside the car, you must look to all things that enter the car, wiring looms are a favourite remember this water will find its way anywhere but it cannot jump up from the ground so if the car is stood overnight nothing will spray on it, will it, unless other cars are flying by near yours, remember water runs along wires and will drop of when it comes into contact with the body..Where the hell is Chesterfield, it is Chesterfield isn't it I may just have a look there!!.

[Rez]

Don't take the dash out for heavens sake,do not do any unnecessary work you will be more despondent the more you do, particularly if your search is fruitless, do not do anything on a whim, taking the dash out, apart from it being horse work its probably unnecessary, loosen the carpet from the side plastic retainers put your hand under the carpet high up in the foot-well is it wet there, if it is this is as good as an indication as your going to get as to this leak coming in from the engine bay and running down the slope of the firewall or bulk head inside the car, you must look to all things that enter the car, wiring looms are a favourite remember this water will find its way anywhere but it cannot jump up from the ground so if the car is stood overnight nothing will spray on it, will it, unless other cars are flying by near yours, remember water runs along wires and will drop of when it comes into contact with the body..Where the hell is Chesterfield, it is Chesterfield isn't it I may just have a look there!!.

Mate I'll have a good look tomorrow. I'm going to get the carpet back, free some space, get the sound proofing off, get a torch and have a good look up behind there whilst my girt pours some water down the screen and around the washer motor channel first. Believe me the last thing I want to do is take the dash out but its is up there on the drivers side. The passenger side is bone dry. Chesterfield is miles away from you mate, it's Derbyshire but if I need help I'll pm you. I hope to take some pic's of what I find to post up.

[afn33]

Mate I'll have a good look tomorrow. I'm going to get the carpet back, free some space, get the sound proofing off, get a torch and have a good look up behind there whilst my girt pours some water down the screen and around the washer motor channel first. Believe me the last thing I want to do is take the dash out but its is up there on the drivers side. The passenger side is bone dry. Chesterfield is miles away from you mate, it's Derbyshire but if I need help I'll pm you. I hope to take some pic's of what I find to post up.

I have been talking to my mate on the phone last night, he works, and has done so for years in a garage. ..He, my mate Pete does MOTs on cars near to where I live, he says a weak spot on a Saxo,any Saxo if they get one [so I implore you to try this before you do anything drastic] is the front windscreen, he says this, when its dry outside pour water mixed with washing up liquid[this is to make the water thicker] just a little onto the screen and watch it, don't pour it over the screen liberally, use it meagerly a couple of mililitres at a time, use a medicine pot so your not using loads of water observe its action, if it disappears readily but not over the rubber pour some more on to double check. If the leak is here at the magnitude you indicate you will see this mixture disappear...

I'm thinking when I look at this Saxo I intend to buy that I will sling a bucket of water over it and wait and see the result..lol..

When I said I would come to Chesterfield I was making light of a situation that is causing you stress I wasn't actually going to go there..I will look at my old 'Car Mechanics' books and other books I have with sections on water leaks see if I can be of any further help..I will try and upload pages of these books, that is if I can find them..

[Rez]

I have been talking to my mate on the phone last night, he works, and has done so for years in a garage. ..He, my mate Pete does MOTs on cars near to where I live, he says a weak spot on a Saxo,any Saxo if they get one [so I implore you to try this before you do anything drastic] is the front windscreen, he says this, when its dry outside pour water mixed with washing up liquid[this is to make the water thicker] just a little onto the screen and watch it, don't pour it over the screen liberally, use it meagerly a couple of mililitres at a time, use a medicine pot so your not using loads of water observe its action, if it disappears readily but not over the rubber pour some more on to double check. If the leak is here at the magnitude you indicate you will see this mixture disappear...

I'm thinking when I look at this Saxo I intend to buy that I will sling a bucket of water over it and wait and see the result..lol..

When I said I would come to Chesterfield I was making light of a situation that is causing you stress I wasn't actually going to go there..I will look at my old 'Car Mechanics' books and other books I have with sections on water leaks see if I can be of any further help..I will try and upload pages of these books, that is if I can find them..

Thanks for that mate, I've been busy today using seam sealant all around the scuttle panel but mainly on 2 seams that the sealant had cracked on. I've took some pics in case anyone has this kind of leak and has checked everywhere else.

The below image is taken from the part that is under the black plastic windscreen motor cover which has been removed. This was one of the primary areas I wanted to reseal.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t266/Rezimator/DSCF8425.jpg

Same area after the seam sealant was applied which by the way was Tiger seal the same stuff for bonding body work etc.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t266/Rezimator/DSCF8427.jpg

I then noticed a gap in another seam that wasn't sealed at all See the below image from just below the windscreen. To get to this you have to remove the lower windscreen black plastic trim.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t266/Rezimator/DSCF8424.jpg

Same area after it was sealed.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t266/Rezimator/DSCF8432.jpg

I then sealed the lower scuttle seam.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t266/Rezimator/DSCF8433.jpg

Infact I started to get carried away, and just covered all the seams I could see in the end. After I'd finished I painted them but they need another coat yet.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t266/Rezimator/DSCF8434.jpg

I didn't take pic's but if you look through the wheel arch on the driver side you'll see the power steering rack though the inner wing cut out. I sealed that whole cut out seam as it was badly cracked and also around the drain holes on either side of the scuttle.

I left the car a few hours then got the hose. I first place it on the screen and turned it on and left it 15 minutes. I checked inside the car and it was dry.:y: Then I left the hose on the roof 10 minutes, Checked the car and it was dry.:y: Then I washed the car and dried it, Checked inside and Yes it was dry.:p. So I'll hold my breath until it rains next but everything looks good.
Thanks to everyone thats posted help especially afn33. Thank Rez.

[afn33]

Thanks for that mate, I've been busy today using seam sealant all around the scuttle panel but mainly on 2 seams that the sealant had cracked on. I've took some pics in case anyone has this kind of leak and has checked everywhere else.

The below image is taken from the part that is under the black plastic windscreen motor cover which has been removed. This was one of the primary areas I wanted to reseal.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t266/Rezimator/DSCF8425.jpg

Same area after the seam sealant was applied which by the way was Tiger seal the same stuff for bonding body work etc.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t266/Rezimator/DSCF8427.jpg

I then noticed a gap in another seam that wasn't sealed at all See the below image from just below the windscreen. To get to this you have to remove the lower windscreen black plastic trim.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t266/Rezimator/DSCF8424.jpg

Same area after it was sealed.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t266/Rezimator/DSCF8432.jpg

I then sealed the lower scuttle seam.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t266/Rezimator/DSCF8433.jpg

Infact I started to get carried away, and just covered all the seams I could see in the end. After I'd finished I painted them but they need another coat yet.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t266/Rezimator/DSCF8434.jpg

I didn't take pic's but if you look through the wheel arch on the driver side you'll see the power steering rack though the inner wing cut out. I sealed that whole cut out seam as it was badly cracked and also around the drain holes on either side of the scuttle.

I left the car a few hours then got the hose. I first place it on the screen and turned it on and left it 15 minutes. I checked inside the car and it was dry.:y: Then I left the hose on the roof 10 minutes, Checked the car and it was dry.:y: Then I washed the car and dried it, Checked inside and Yes it was dry.:p. So I'll hold my breath until it rains next but everything looks good.
Thanks to everyone thats posted help especially afn33. Thank Rez.

Hi mate so pleased you have sorted this enigma out,seams eh well I did hit on these when I mentioned the Maestro, hope all is well for you mate, remember its your foraging and endeavour that saved the day, I could only tell you what I thought from my experiences, you can now look forward to many 'dry days' motoring and the bonus is the car got an additional wash.lol.Good luck mate lets hope its all sorted but just in case you know where I am.. You can help me a little how do I upload a pic of my own choosing to use as my avotar..any ideas I'm bloody hopeless with computers although to hear my missus speak you would think I was a professional, eh!

[afn33]

What hole near the drivers side bonnet hinge? maybe i need to check this. why would something being blocked get water inside the car tho?There are two drain holes normally covered with gauze or plastic accessible through a cover near the bonnet hinges and a central hose on every car I have ever seen there has to be to drain the water when washing the car and for rain to drain off and away from the car.

Water by its very nature will search its way anywhere, when a drain hose blocks water will rise upward, indeed anywhere the drain holes are designed to drain water and[rain onto the terra firma] if blocked, water will seek its own routes. Water will be found elsewhere because when the hose is blocked and full of water where would you expect it to go, it will seek entry along and down normally completely dry areas and if there is a hole, lose grommet or a leaking seal water will enter, it even runs along wiring looms..do what I said in previous posts..and isolate all other routes then look..and if you don't understand what I say about water rising if the car hose drains are blocked then get a garden hose fill it with water then turn the tap off, get hold of the full hose block its end then squeeze see what happens..

[afn33]

Which direction would the water be coming from if it was the drainage tubes or whatever? Im sure I read somewhere something about putting talc down to get an idea of where the water was coming from or something. You reckon that would work? Your wrong mate totally wrong the concept of putting talc down in the car if you have no idea where the water is coming in is useless in the extreme..The idea of talc showing where water comes into a car works like this..You must first have some idea where the leak is first, the spreading of talc proves or disproves your theory, why you may ask, well where talc is spread and water leaks in the talc will run showing a clear movement of talc away from the affected area, this idea came from a book donkey's years ago a manual and a bloody good one called 'On the Road' however it was only when absolutely mystified that they [the authors] said spread the talc and that was when the car had water ingress that could not be found, no way no how, so they advised removing all inside trim removing carpets and any other upholstery removing the dashboard etc etc ,in short stripping the whole damn car then liberally spreading talc everywhere sitting in the car and observing when the car was washed if the water moved the talc.. how that worked was one would see the talc move as the water dropped or ran onto it then you had to trace the water using the talc run to its source this would then give you the point of access... hope that helps you understand the fundamentals of finding water leaks when all else fails sit down and think.. good luck mate, you will indeed find this leak takes time and patience and a strategy.

[johnnyg_vts]

Sunroof probably, common problem.

my saxo was leaking through the holes that the bolts that hold the sunroof into the roof are.
hopefully that makes sense.

[Rez]

my saxo was leaking through the holes that the bolts that hold the sunroof into the roof are.
hopefully that makes sense.

I know exactly where you mean mate but it wasn't leaking from them. I found the leak was on the driverside below the engine mount on the floor/firewall seam. Cars been dry for months now.:y: