VTR vs VTS

[CTG]

hi guys am looking at buying a VTR or VTS but i would like to no the reliability of both and the runing costs and tunability and so on itt would be nice to have the cheaper option but it its only a little more i would take the faster more exspensive option so if u guys could help me out the would be great =] hope to hear from yas

[Craig_B]

hi guys am looking at buying a VTR or VTS but i would like to no the reliability of both and the runing costs and tunability and so on itt would be nice to have the cheaper option but it its only a little more i would take the faster more exspensive option so if u guys could help me out the would be great =] hope to hear from yas

well how old are you for a start?
because insurance is dear on a VTS at a young age, i'm 19 and they want 2grand, for a VTS

VTS - insurance group 14
VTR - insurance group 7

[CTG]

am 21 but am on a traders policy thanx to my dad owning a garage :p

[Craig_B]

am 21 but am on a traders policy thanx to my dad owning a garage :p

VTS then i would say!

[CTG]

okok anything i should look out for when buying? and how much do they cost to run?

[Craig_B]

okok anything i should look out for when buying? and how much do they cost to run?

sure someone with a VTS will answer that question for you. only got a 1.0 myself haha!

ummmm, i havent had any problem with my sax really.

but i have heard that the rear axle goes on them? correct me if i wrong!

have a search, think i can remember a thread a while back asking this question.

[Newtz07]

VTS all day.

the VTR is the 1.6 8 valve... 98 bhp... 0-60 in about 9 secs

the VTS is the 1.6 16 valve and are about 120 bhp... 0-60 in 7 secs

the VTS is the better, faster version. but they are both quick really.

if you got a traders policy go for the VTS.

reliability wise i dont know. they have a very bad rep. i got the westie, 1.4... and i have never really had a problem with it. central locking problems here and there, but nothing major.

i wouldnt imagine the VTS will do more than 35 MPG. but thats great for a hot hatch really.

hope this helps

[littleracer]

if ya dad owns a garage he should know generally what to loo for on a car.

saxo problems;

look for the rear wheels sitting in at the top,this is a sign that a trailing arm bearing has gone.
gearbox-check for whirring etc gearboxes are weak.

knocking when pulling away etc.

[dougieph2]

VTS all day.

the VTR is the 1.6 8 valve... 98 bhp... 0-60 in about 9 secs

the VTS is the 1.6 16 valve and are about 120 bhp... 0-60 in 7 secs

the VTS is the better, faster version. but they are both quick really.

if you got a traders policy go for the VTS.

reliability wise i dont know. they have a very bad rep. i got the westie, 1.4... and i have never really had a problem with it. central locking problems here and there, but nothing major.

i wouldnt imagine the VTS will do more than 35 MPG. but thats great for a hot hatch really.

hope this helps

not always the better option to have a vts, dearer insurance, dearer tax

and not that much quicker than a vtr

andy miller on the scots section can beat vts' no problem in his vtr and all hes done to his in induction kit and exhaust system (including decat)
he ran a 15.8 1/4 at crail yesterday so a vts isnt always the best option..

as reliability goes.. its the luck of the draw really.. i had really bad luck with mine although the axle didnt go, but then again there are members who havent had any problems with theres ...

[Dom]

Get a VTS, No point in contemplating it..

Much better than a VTR.

[rey]

tbh my R was sound, had nothing but problems with this S

[Craig_B]

if ya dad owns a garage he should know generally what to loo for on a car.

saxo problems;

look for the rear wheels sitting in at the top,this is a sign that a trailing arm bearing has gone.
gearbox-check for whirring etc gearboxes are weak.

knocking when pulling away etc.

thats wa i ment!

[dougieph2]

waste of money getting an S imo

[rey]

waste of money getting an S imo

+1 with that

[dougieph2]

your pretty much paying an extra £100 in road tax (correct me if im wrong cause that was a guess), and up to another £600 in insurance for an extra 22bhp from standard engines.. try and find a vtr with low miles

[CTG]

pretty mixed responce tbh but thanx for all your help =] least i no the main problem in the axleaam thinking i might get a low mile R coz of the rise of petrol =[

[dougieph2]

your making the right choice bud :y:

[craig180]

Depends what you want from the car. If you want something quick buy a VTS, if you want a good compromise of speed and running costs then buy a VTR.

I've had many of both and there genuinely is a massive difference in how they perform and respond to mods.

I'm currently pimpin' it up in a mk1 VTR which is far more economical and fun to drive than the family wagon C4

[rey]

if you want a good compromise of speed and running costs then buy a VTR.

just one of the many things I loved about my R :(

[sir_dave]

Just out of interest, my forum page has a button that says 'search' on the top toolbar.

Is this something that is only offered to premium members? Might explain some of the new threads on here?

Mods - can you shed any light on my query?

[CTG]

yea al get an r coz thats what i want somethink fun to drive then u dont have to pay a tone for so an R it is thanx for the help guys if any1 i seeling an R let me no please haha i dont mind if it a little damaged coz i can repair it =]

[craig180]

Just out of interest, my forum page has a button that says 'search' on the top toolbar.

Is this something that is only offered to premium members? Might explain some of the new threads on here?

Mods - can you shed any light on my query?

tbh, I did a search on VTR vs VTS and not a lot came up, so I'll let this guy off this time (unless he continues to use text talk ;))

[sir_dave]

tbh, I did a search on VTR vs VTS and not a lot came up, so I'll let this guy off this time (unless he continues to use text talk ;))

a coul thanx blud waz wundering wot it waz all bout lik brapz an tingz

[Newtz07]

the thing with reliablitity is this...

its all aboyut how the car was treated b4 you got it. if it was never serviced and was thrown about by some dick ed then it will give you trouble. but if it was looked after and drove right then it will more than likely be fine.

[Ashleyp]

depends if you want half an engine or not...

[Newtz07]

depends if you want half an engine or not...

lol... well have i got 1/4 of an engine then?

[Ashleyp]

lol... well have i got 1/4 of an engine then?

nope

8v = half an engine

[Newtz07]

yey! i still got half an engine. what if i put another 8 valves in my boot... not connected to anything, just sat there... do i have a full engine then? or 3/4's?

[Ashleyp]

yey! i still got half an engine. what if i put another 8 valves in my boot... not connected to anything, just sat there... do i have a full engine then? or 3/4's?

you have half an engine

and some valves...

[Newtz07]

hahahahaha... this is true... so so true... :(

[Ryan]

waste of money getting an S imo

lol. Not if you plan to tune it.

Its far far more economical getting power from the 16v if you actually want more than 120bhp!

[Rogue_Shadow]

you have half an engine

and some valves...



:clapping: good one


Just out of intrest (hopfully I wont be run out of this forum by member with pitchforks :panic:)
why are you intrested in a saxo?
what car do you own/ have you owned?

[CTG]

i own a mk3 golf 19tdi and a fiat seicento haha my mate had a VTS ni black and it was lowers with hids and tints and the car just looked sweet so i thought i might try 1

[VTS123]

There is a big and very noticable difference in performance and engine character. The VTS is very revvy and delivers most of its power at higher revs whereas the VTR runs out of puff much sooner.

VTS-specific bits tend to be quite a bit dearer and less widely available (eg exhaust). VTS has more kit, including ABS which is worth having.

As for reliablilty, I can only speak for my VTS which has been pretty good.

[SaxBuild]

:clapping: good one


Just out of intrest (hopfully I wont be run out of this forum by member with pitchforks :panic:)
why are you intrested in a saxo?
what car do you own/ have you owned?No where did I hide that ptichfork.

I suppose like with most, its the general ease you have with a saxo and the fact is awsome to drive in snow.........

[Mieran]

Get a VTR, save up for a few years then get a proper car.

Don't waste your money on a VTS.

Edit: all this talk about its only got half of the valves etc is gay. There is always a car out there with more valves than you. 20, 24 etc

[Royzx]

No point getting a VTR if you can afford insurance on a VTS :y:

[D--R--E--W]

ask andy miller, his vtr is rapid and its only gonna get quicker once the cam goes in ;)

[Liam_]

VTR offers better value for money. If you can get a nice VTS which is 2001 or older, then definitely go for that - that way you don't get stung with the horrendous tax.

[Royzx]

Depends how quick you wanna go aswell lol

[Liam_LFC_VTR]

you have half an engine

and some valves...

If you think having 16V is a "full" engine you are seriously wrong ;)

[Ashleyp]

Edit: all this talk about its only got half of the valves etc is gay. There is always a car out there with more valves than you. 20, 24 etc

sounds like something an 8v owner would say! and you own / owned a vts right?!?!

vtr owners always spend there time justifying why they didnt get the 16v, and that theres not much difference

edit, 16v is the "full" saxo / 106 engine, last time i checked, there wasnt a model with more valves

thus, 8v = half engine

[Royzx]

Full engine in a saxo yea lol

[Liam_LFC_VTR]

20bhp moar...........

Valves? 1litre micras have 16V, does that make them fast?

Sorry John_G x

[Ashleyp]

20bhp moar...........

Valves? 1litre micras have 16V, does that make them fast?

Sorry John_G x

again, a vtr owner justifying why the 8v is the better option

bhp isnt everything, vts is better in every way

ive owned both.

[Mieran]

and you own / owned a vts right?!?!


Yes I owned a VTS and I didn't sell it because I can't afford running costs but because I didn't like it.

Hopefully getting a VTR next and save up for something better to get in 2/3 years time.

[Royzx]

Choose what you can find/afford lol...

[Liam_LFC_VTR]

again, a vtr owner justifying why the 8v is the better option

bhp isnt everything, vts is better in every way

ive owned both.

Where did I say the VTR was better?

Just saying, most of your posts is "Ohh VTR is half an engine blah blah"

[Ashleyp]

Where did I say the VTR was better?

Just saying, most of your posts is "Ohh VTR is half an engine blah blah"

8v = half of 16v lol

before anyone brings costs into it, other than a difference in insurance, theres not much in it. my insurance was only £200 more a year on a vts

[Liam_LFC_VTR]

8v = half of 16v lol

before anyone brings costs into it, other than a difference in insurance, theres not much in it. my insurance was only £200 more a year on a vts

Half of the Valves, not half of the engine ;)

But yeah, if you can afford the VTS, then why not.........

[Ryan]

20bhp moar...........


And a different gearbox, abs, extra airbags on mk2s etc etc...

I still have a vtr, it was my first car and was good fun, if I could have got insured easily on a vts mind the 8v wouldnt have been in the equation. Im no longer 18 mind which is why the 8vs sat on my drive for over a year now

As for MPG I didnt really feel the 8v gave me great mpg.

[Ashleyp]

Half of the Valves, not half of the engine ;)

But yeah, if you can afford the VTS, then why not.........

may aswell be half an engine lol. theres no way id own a vtr again, theyre shocking in comparison

[Liam_LFC_VTR]

may aswell be half an engine lol. theres no way id own a vtr again, theyre shocking in comparison

Performance wise, is there really a big difference?

Genuinely want to know tbh.

[Mieran]

Maybe your VTR was shit?

Who knows...

[Ryan]

Performance wise, is there really a big difference?

Genuinely want to know tbh.

Theres a huge difference in the real world, both on the road and on track.

On track in a straight line the 16v engine just waved bye bye to the 8v.

Theres a reason why most of the serious performance people go for 16v engines, and its not because 16vs are cheaper to buy ;)

[kylesaxo]

go for a vts

[baker556]

look @ adsayer he gets great mpg in his vts...

Personally if i had the choice i would get the S

[Ashleyp]

Performance wise, is there really a big difference?

Genuinely want to know tbh.

its a differnt car to drive all together

just revs a lot more

gear ratio's are better

can accelerate pretty well even in high gears. something the vtr doesnt have as well

[moxy89]

like ash has says... 8V are for gays... i have a VTs and love it to bits.... awesome car was considering selling up but after driving it i just love it get a VTS you wont regret it... People saying get a VTR and save why... i have just turned 20 and will be keeping my s for long time yet more for a track car but there good revvy engine looked after will last a long time

[Ashleyp]

like ash has says... 8V are for gays... i have a VTs and love it to bits.... awesome car was considering selling up but after driving it i just love it get a VTS you wont regret it... People saying get a VTR and save why... i have just turned 20 and will be keeping my s for long time yet more for a track car but there good revvy engine looked after will last a long time

another good point

VTR isnt value for money imo

if i done it again, i would have kept my 1.1 for another year, then gone straight to a vts.

most people that buy vtr's just use it as a step up the ladder so to speak, but will sell on for better things

i know i'll do the same with the vts, but the vts is a good car for me while im at uni. i could happily downgrade, but i can afford not to, so i wont

[Liam_LFC_VTR]

like ash has says... 8V are for gays... i have a VTs and love it to bits.... awesome car was considering selling up but after driving it i just love it get a VTS you wont regret it... People saying get a VTR and save why... i have just turned 20 and will be keeping my s for long time yet more for a track car but there good revvy engine looked after will last a long time

No company in the UK will insure me on a VTS with mods.

Does that make me gay? ;)

I bought my VTR due to insurance, and this time next year I know il have a VTS, just couldnt afford the insurance atm.

[moxy89]

yes mate im afraid it does:P

no its a good point that the insurance is a huge step up.... but worth it IMO

[Liam_LFC_VTR]

In that case, bring on the 1years NCB tbh!

[rey]

I agree with Mieran tbh, I have a VTS, and I don't like it.

IMO VTR>VTS but thats just for me, I can understand that different people want different things from there car, unlike lots on here...

[bfc2dabone]

ive got a vtr and love it, but am still saving and then lookin out for a mint late low mileage vts, the vtr is just beginning to feel abit lame, so i'l end up with a vtr and a vts because i couldn sell the vtr lol

[Mieran]

VTS is not that fast imo so pointless spending the extra coin on insurance.

[foreverwelsh]

id go for the S mate just seems like a better option all round

[moxy89]

VTS is not that fast imo so pointless spending the extra coin on insurance.


there hardly slow and there alot quicker than a vtR imo that your opinion.... a vts is far the better car they hold there value better imo and everyone has vtR there isnt as many vts around my way that is anyway

[Mieran]

VTS is 'nippy' compared to fast cars.

[J222JRA]

VTS is 'nippy' compared to fast cars.

and cheaper, and imo they are fun to drive.

[Mieran]

You get what you pay for, the faster you want to go the more money you have to spend and so on...

[rey]

and cheaper, and imo they are fun to drive.

a VTR is equally as fun, its the same chassis at the end of the day..

[J222JRA]

Never driven an R to be honest, dont think i ever will

[rey]

Never driven an R to be honest, dont think i ever will

I have, and tbh, unless your going for tuning mods/track work then 8v all the way...

16v is certainly no better for a spirited drive along b-roads.

[J222JRA]

I have, and tbh, unless your going for tuning mods/track work then 8v all the way...

16v is certainly no better for a spirited drive along b-roads.

Lee_vtr1 always said he would never go 16v..............now though he has done the conversion so we will have to see what he thinks ;)

[Liam_LFC_VTR]

I think listening to people who have went from a VTR to a VTS is the only way to shed any light on this tbh.............

[rey]

Lee_vtr1 always said he would never go 16v..............now though he has done the conversion so we will have to see what he thinks ;)

I have 16v now, I sold my 8v for it.

Never regretted anything as much in my life

[Liam_]

I went from a cammed VTR (118bhp at the fly) to a VTS and the 16V did feel slightly slower at first... it just takes a while to adjust your driving to having the extra revs and close ratio box. Wouldn't get me back into a VTR now tbh.

[Mieran]

VTS didn't put a smile on my face, in fact it made me worry cos' I can accelerate hard but when I wanted to slow down I couldn't because of the shit brakes

VTR have same brakes too but because its a slower car I think they would be alright

[Ashleyp]

as soon as i began driving the vts it was a million times better

kept my vtr for a month, and drove both regularly so have a good idea as to how they compare

i used the vtr for a few days going to work and back before i got in the vts again, 16v just pulls so much more

people talk about having a high revving engine being a bad thing? im not quite sure why, as if youve ever watched any form of motorsport the rev's are very high

i couldnt stand the vtr gearbox either, really weird ratio's imo

[Cal]

VTR with 16v badge.... done.

[rey]

people talk about having a high revving engine being a bad thing? im not quite sure why, as if youve ever watched any form of motorsport the rev's are very high

what relevance does motorsport have to daily driving?

I agree, on track 16v, however on road 8v IMO

[Liam_]

what relevance does motorsport have to daily driving?

I agree, on track 16v, however on road 8v IMO

How come you prefer the R - don't think the S is worth the extra cash?

[Ashleyp]

what relevance does motorsport have to daily driving?

I agree, on track 16v, however on road 8v IMO

i raised the point, as people were "complaining" about the vts' engine being high revving

on an N/A engine, high revs are better for a good driver's car unless your an eco-warrior

if i could afford to, i'd have a little 1.1 or something as a daily... but i think that'd be for different reasons than the 8v vs 16v debate.

[rey]

How come you prefer the R - don't think the S is worth the extra cash?

not that at all, I like the S for its engine, but I dont see any benifit in driving it daily over a VTR

i raised the point, as people were "complaining" about the vts' engine being high revving

on an N/A engine, high revs are better for a good driver's car unless your an eco-warrior

if i could afford to, i'd have a little 1.1 or something as a daily... but i think that'd be for different reasons than the 8v vs 16v debate.


and true high revs are good, but like i said above, i dont feel that there's any benifit in running a 16v daily over an 8v, personally

[Ashleyp]

and true high revs are good, but like i said above, i dont feel that there's any benifit in running a 16v daily over an 8v, personally

agreed, for just going to work and back, theres none

if i had to travel a long distance to work, id get a comfortable diesel. and if i was just working in the town centre, i'd get a little "green" car or a bike lol.

when i just went to work and back it was pretty un-needed over something of a smaller / cheaper engine, but the evening fun is great :D

[Ryan]

and true high revs are good, but like i said above, i dont feel that there's any benifit in running a 16v daily over an 8v, personally

The 8v just runs out of puff to early if you ever want to overtake anything.

[shooorn94]

The 8v just runs out of puff to early if you ever want to overtake anything.

I've had no bother :)... in fact I had no bother in the 1.1. But I've learnt how to overtake safely due to driving a slower car.

Going back to the original posters comment. My R engine gets the same mpg as what the 1.1 did... and that's with a few backroad blasts and driving it normally.

I won't comment on insurance as my situation is somewhat different. As for tax, I know the S is substantially different and my tax is £190 for a year.. so it depends how much you're willing to pay here. What I will say is compare the tax of the S and insurance to cars costing the same amount, then decide if the 8 extra valves are worth it. If they are enjoy it :y: A saxo is a very fun car to drive 8v or 16v... or with 60bhp. But don't take my sax-p's word for it, go out and have a test drive of both cars :A:

[Ashleyp]

tax:

vtr - £190 a year, am i correct?
vts - £215 a year (2001 and after)

dont have all the figures for before / after 01, but from what i have, theres not a great difference, £2 a month

[J222JRA]

tax:

vtr - £190 a year, am i correct?
vts - £215 a year (2001 and after)

dont have all the figures for before / after 01, but from what i have, theres not a great difference, £2 a month

Correct...thats what i payed a few weeks back. :y:

[Liam_LFC_VTR]

tax:

vtr - £190 a year, am i correct?
vts - £215 a year (2001 and after)

dont have all the figures for before / after 01, but from what i have, theres not a great difference, £2 a month

£190 a year for a vtr?! You sure that's right?

I wouldn't know, I don't pay tax ;)

[rkid147]

vts all day long!!


Chewy

[jimbo06]

I too have owned both and would take an 'S over an 'R anyday of the week.

Dont get me wrong i loved my vtr, and they are great little cars especially if you are after saving a bit of money instead of running a vts but if money has nothing to do with it im almost certain everybody would go for the 16v.

16v ftw

[CTG]

okok i think i may go for the VTS sounds alot more fun to drive coming from people that have ownd both. so VTS it is! thanx for every1ns help on the subject =] and off the subject can come 1 make me a signature :p

[Liam_]

I'm pretty sure tax for 2001+ VTRs is £155 for the year. I think the older ones are £190.

[Ashleyp]

I'm pretty sure tax for 2001+ VTRs is £155 for the year. I think the older ones are £190.

it works the other way round

newer saxos (post 01) cost more in tax

it seems odd as the whole point is to persuade people to get newer cars lol

[JOK3R]

vts - obviously theres no question about it
just look out for oncoming trees an men in white vans

also petrol wise i was amazed when a full tank lasted me longer than it did in my 1.1206 - shocking tbh!!!

[Liam_LFC_VTR]

it works the other way round

newer saxos (post 01) cost more in tax

it seems odd as the whole point is to persuade people to get newer cars lol

You sure?

The mk2 are more economical............

[Ashleyp]

You sure?

The mk2 are more economical............

after a quick search, ive found this:

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/road-tax/?deriv=17753#manu=1333&model=127&deriv=17753

&

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/road-tax/?deriv=17754#manu=1333&model=127&deriv=17754

it's VTS where the newer ones cost more... older VTR's cost more than their newer counterparts.

£245 for a year to tax! yikes, time for me to sell up :( lol

[J222JRA]

You sure?

The mk2 are more economical............

Ashley is correct, its all about emissions mate :y:

[Liam_LFC_VTR]

Ashley is correct, its all about emissions mate :y:

Oh ok, my bad lol

I thought the reason for the change in the CAT was to make it more economical lol :homme:

[Ashleyp]

Oh ok, my bad lol

I thought the reason for the change in the CAT was to make it more economical lol :homme:

read my above post lol

in terms of cost:

new vtr < old vtr
new vts > old vts

[Hewitt20]

I saw an old woman in a vtr. i have not seen an old woman in a vts..

end of discussion right there :p

[Liam_LFC_VTR]

I saw an old woman in a vtr. i have not seen an old woman in a vts..

end of discussion right there :p

You saw an old woman driving a cheap hatchback?!?!?

Well I never...............

[rey]

The 8v just runs out of puff to early if you ever want to overtake anything.

never experienced that in mine tbh

[saxokid100]

VTS all day............:y::p

[shooorn94]

tax:

vtr - £190 a year, am i correct?
vts - £215 a year (2001 and after)

dont have all the figures for before / after 01, but from what i have, theres not a great difference, £2 a month

Yep you are indeed correct mr P.

As for tax, I know the S is substantially different and my tax is £190 for a year..

I always was led to belive the pre 01 VTS was around the £250 mark, must have read my figures elsewhere/older figures/myths lol! Eitherway they're both alot for tax imo.

[Ashleyp]

for a post 2001 vts, next years tax is £245!

for a post 2001 vtr - £155

so £90 difference, which is susbstantial