Why do rally cars pop fire from their zorst?

[xxo0pko0xx]

As above. I just can't under stand why I'm assuming they're decatted? Have looked at google with no answer
cheers

[swampy]

Unburnt fuel from the over run igniting in the hot confines of the exhaust.

[xxo0pko0xx]

How is unburnt fuel escaping into the system tho? Via over sized injectors?

[swampy]

Over fueling.
And its not just rallye cars that do it!
My s16 does it alot on down shifts

[Sam-]

yeh its more to do with the anti-lag system there running. The anti lag system allows the turbo to constantly remain spooled up. but when you lift of the throttle this drags unburnt fuel through to exhaust system, hence the pops and bangs and spits of flame.

[C4_Lew]

loads of cars can do it, as said its just unburnt fuel being burned by the hot exhuast

[xxo0pko0xx]

K I'm assuming thatit must be decatted in order to do this??

[steviee90]

it helps yes,but iirc rally cars still have to have a catalyser group N rally does anyway

[Rotax73]

it helps yes,but iirc rally cars still have to have a catalyser group N rally does anyway

Yeah your right.... All rally cars must have an MOT so a cat is a must have.

[djmartin]

why am I getting the feeling just from this.
K I'm assuming thatit must be decatted in order to do this??

someone wants there car to sound like a rally car to try & impress or look cool? lol

all cars go pop and can achive that sound

in something like a saxo only time it would sound cool is if its in third at high revs so it sounds raspy at the sametime. if not then the car will just sound like its broken and needs to be repaired lmao. i.e misfiring sound almost!

[JamesR]

They do have cats in as of September 09 i think unless there historic (MK1 / MK2 escort, Chevette HSR etc)

Lairy cams - High octane fuel - Antilag - huge turbo's - competition exhausts etc

[djmartin]

They do have cats in as of September 09 i think unless there historic (MK1 / MK2 escort, Chevette HSR etc)

Lairy cams - High octane fuel - Antilag - huge turbo's - competition exhausts etc

exactly.
you want the proper sound you need a deep pockets lol.

[JamesR]

On the cheap i would say:

Supersprint 2" race system (non silenced), Supersprint 4-2-1, and a decat.

And if you really wanted to, get a adjustable fuel pressure regulator and turn the fueling up a little (Although this will cause it to not run as good / run badly and i realy wouldn't reccomend it)

[djmartin]

On the cheap i would say:

Supersprint 2" race system (non silenced), Supersprint 4-2-1, and a decat.

And if you really wanted to, get a adjustable fuel pressure regulator and turn the fueling up a little (Although this will cause it to not run as good / run badly and i realy wouldn't reccomend it)

I would'nt either lol.
nothing like over fuel and shite MPG and failing MOT's
then from there its oil pressure different along with oil been burnt quicker.

list can go on and on tbh!

[sparky771]

My mates suzuki cappacino popped and banged from a 660cc, 3 cylinder, turbocharged and intercooled engine with a stainless steel full zorst! its awsome! but a tractor pulled out on him and smashed all the front up :(

[xxo0pko0xx]

why am I getting the feeling just from this.


someone wants there car to sound like a rally car to try & impress or look cool? lol

all cars go pop and can achive that sound

in something like a saxo only time it would sound cool is if its in third at high revs so it sounds raspy at the sametime. if not then the car will just sound like its broken and needs to be repaired lmao. i.e misfiring sound alm
ost!

no considering a track car build for a rally circuit no1 told u 2 read this thread don't like it **** of

everyone else thanks for help :y:

[Matty_Mills]

On the cheap i would say:

Supersprint 2" race system (non silenced), Supersprint 4-2-1, and a decat.
And if you really wanted to, get a adjustable fuel pressure regulator and turn the fueling up a little (Although this will cause it to not run as good / run badly and i realy wouldn't reccomend it)

Exactly what i had on my furio/VTS....

Sounded lovely but sliiiiightly over the top on a saxo

[Matty_Mills]

no considering a track car build for a rally circuit no1 told u 2 read this thread don't like it fuck of
everyone else thanks for help :y:

spelling
grammar
attitude ;)

[gaz4399]

my vts spits little flames if you try.

[Sparco_Tom]

Jesus its comments like that are pushing me away from this site and the pathetic dweebs that roam it.
Martins done you a favour and given you an opinion which is held by most members on this site.
Loose the attitude pal or leave

[Mochachino]

yeh its more to do with the anti-lag system there running. The anti lag system allows the turbo to constantly remain spooled up. but when you lift of the throttle this drags unburnt fuel through to exhaust system, hence the pops and bangs and spits of flame.

herreeeeeeeeeeeeee

[JamesR]

Jesus its comments like that are pushing me away from this site and the pathetic dweebs that roam it.
Martins done you a favour and given you an opinion which is held by most members on this site.
Loose the attitude pal or leave

Same. I find myself posting and coming on here less and less due to peoples offensive and idiotic comments and behaviour.

[Mochachino]

Lol, jus read the 'fuck off' comment. Martin you aint allowed to give advice anymore sorry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhr9kT5iYFo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvQFcbGBr_0

[craig180]

Any more hard man antics and there will be more infractions/bans handed out.

This is an open forum for anyone to express their "opinions"

Please don't spoil it for others

[KamRacing]

Theres a report button you know............

The normally aspirated rally cars have long duration camshafts which give valve overlap. The camshaft is optimised at high rpm to produce power but the overlap is not so useful at low speeds. Basically both sets of valves will momentarily be open at the same time with the exhaust scavenging effect pulling some air/fuel from the intake. This unburnt fuel will ignite in the exhaust rather than being combusted in the normal way.
A well designed exhaust system will help this scavenging effect which is why often fitting a decent aftermarket exhaust can give more flames.
There are loads of other reasons which all can affect the fuel burning but it could just make this a little complicated unnecessarily

[xxo0pko0xx]

Exactly what i had on my furio/VTS....

Sounded lovely but sliiiiightly over the top on a saxo
:y: cheers

spelling
grammar
attitude ;)
:y:

my vts spits little flames if you try.
cool what systems on it?

Jesus its comments like that are pushing me away from this site and the pathetic dweebs that roam it.
Martins done you a favour and given you an opinion which is held by most members on this site.
Loose the attitude pal or leave
no1 asked him to get cocky and neither with u dont like it dont read it and no it wasnt it was trying to be a dig because i wanted to know something same applys dont like it sling it

[xxo0pko0xx]

why am I getting the feeling just from this.


someone wants there car to sound like a rally car to try & impress or look cool? lol

all cars go pop and can achive that sound

in something like a saxo only time it would sound cool is if its in third at high revs so it sounds raspy at the sametime. if not then the car will just sound like its broken and needs to be repaired lmao. i.e misfiring sound almost!

yes i appreciate your advice :y:
probelm is the cockyness that comes along with it ie
someone wants there car to sound like a rally car to try & impress or look cool? lol

no as i said i just wanted advice thats all no cockyness for once. sorry for getting offensive as i said i just wantede advice not some big headed comment :y:
and yes im making a track car. would like it to sound like a rally car since its going on a rally stage

[xxo0pko0xx]

Theres a report button you know............

The normally aspirated rally cars have long duration camshafts which give valve overlap. The camshaft is optimised at high rpm to produce power but the overlap is not so useful at low speeds. Basically both sets of valves will momentarily be open at the same time with the exhaust scavenging effect pulling some air/fuel from the intake. This unburnt fuel will ignite in the exhaust rather than being combusted in the normal way.
A well designed exhaust system will help this scavenging effect which is why often fitting a decent aftermarket exhaust can give more flames.
There are loads of other reasons which all can affect the fuel burning but it could just make this a little complicated unnecessarily

comments like this i like :)
tyvm :):y:

[Sparco_Tom]

Lol you have a serious attitude problem im guessing your 17?

[xxo0pko0xx]

Lol you have a serious attitude problem im guessing your 17?

if u looked at my profile ud see im 18.
as i said your not forced to read this thread
just dont loike cocky know it all's that give cocky answers
like yourself really :A:

[Sparco_Tom]

You profile doesn't show your age ;)

No I'm not forced to read this thread but i thought I'd give it a read and give it some input. Frankly it's people like you pushing the knowledgeable members away. One day everybody will go, and you lot will be left lowering beams by notches fitting Lexus lights and not getting answers to your threads.
You should buck your ideas up pay some respect as should several other members, i don't understand why everyone these days seem to be keyboard warriors or silly little boys with a big ego and bad attitude.

[stokesy]

if u manage to get it to look and sound like that mate, congrats and let me know what you had to do.. i think rally cars sound amazing.. and would love my car, whether its my saxo or whatever i own in the future to sound like it, on my vtr ive got the supersprint 4-2-1 mani, supersprint race section (de-cat) and the supersprint 2" backbox, and it has a gorgeous raspy sound to it, and pops abit, not as much as i wanted tho :(, so if you manage it congrats and good luck :y:

[Ryan]

1 thing you have ignored is DB limits at trackdays.

its great having a saxo sound like a rally car, until you trip the noise meter and get thrown off.

Think about that aswell.

[littleracer]

i gotta agree with most about peoples attitude on this site.....i mainly come for the lolz nowdays.

kam racing as others have explined very well.

you can get flames with a cat,although wont be as much and you will damage ypour cat quickly as they dont like neat fuel.

iirc wrc only have to be road legal on the road going from stage to stage.
once at the rally iam sure many parts are altered slightly.

[Ryan]

iirc wrc cats only have to be road legal on the road going from stage to stage.
once at the rally iam sure many parts are altered slightly.

hold on, ive got to delay the stage to swap for my decat :oops:

[xxo0pko0xx]

You profile doesn't show your age ;)

No I'm not forced to read this thread but i thought I'd give it a read and give it some input. Frankly it's people like you pushing the knowledgeable members away. One day everybody will go, and you lot will be left lowering beams by notches fitting Lexus lights and not getting answers to your threads.
You should buck your ideas up pay some respect as should several other members, i don't understand why everyone these days seem to be keyboard warriors or silly little boys with a big ego and bad attitude.

well mate tbh i give respect to those that arnt cocky. yes i read serveral of your threads and learnt quite a but tbh but aint going to be spoken to like s h i t. i have respect for those that can give accurate and helpful comments with prehaps a bit of humor but full fledged cocky isnt really on tbh

if u manage to get it to look and sound like that mate, congrats and let me know what you had to do.. i think rally cars sound amazing.. and would love my car, whether its my saxo or whatever i own in the future to sound like it, on my vtr ive got the supersprint 4-2-1 mani, supersprint race section (de-cat) and the supersprint 2" backbox, and it has a gorgeous raspy sound to it, and pops abit, not as much as i wanted tho :(, so if you manage it congrats and good luck :y:

cheers mate. its m=a mate of mines he brought a redtop corsa b and wants me to help him work on it. hes a trained mechanic but i know pretty much nothing so just getting some ideas and hopefully learn a few things :)


1 thing you have ignored is DB limits at trackdays.

its great having a saxo sound like a rally car, until you trip the noise meter and get thrown off.

Think about that aswell.
aaa yes fair point. what are the db limits on tracks? cheers

[littleracer]

if u manage to get it to look and sound like that mate, congrats and let me know what you had to do.. i think rally cars sound amazing.. and would love my car, whether its my saxo or whatever i own in the future to sound like it, on my vtr ive got the supersprint 4-2-1 mani, supersprint race section (de-cat) and the supersprint 2" backbox, and it has a gorgeous raspy sound to it, and pops abit, not as much as i wanted tho :(, so if you manage it congrats and good luck :y:

now get some leary race cams,head work and re map.

1 thing you have ignored is DB limits at trackdays.

its great having a saxo sound like a rally car, until you trip the noise meter and get thrown off.

Think about that aswell.

i doubt the OP is going to be worried about dB limits and trackdays somehow tbh lol.

[xxo0pko0xx]

i gotta agree with most about peoples attitude on this site.....i mainly come for the lolz nowdays.

kam racing as others have explined very well.

you can get flames with a cat,although wont be as much and you will damage ypour cat quickly as they dont like neat fuel.

iirc wrc cats only have to be road legal on the road going from stage to stage.
once at the rally iam sure many parts are altered slightly.

they have a few have explained very well inc kamracing :drink:
thanks for your [part as well mate it helped me understand a bit :)

[xxo0pko0xx]

now get some leary race cams,head work and re map.



i doubt the OP is going to be worried about dB limits and trackdays somehow tbh lol.

someone wants there car to sound like a rally car to try & impress or look cool? lol

unsure on what he wants to do with it tbh. hes piling in the money into it and doing the work im just his assistant apprentice. i think he just wants something fast to throw around a track as he drives a astra diesiel day to day lol

[Ryan]

DB limit varies from track to track, places like bedford have drive by meters, trip them and you are off.

Others just go off static. Static range from 89-105dbs in most cases, so louder isnt allways better ;)

[littleracer]

hold on, ive got to delay the stage to swap for my decat :oops:

in wrc you have pits after getting to the stage.as long as you are at the start of the stage on time,if not you get time knocked off your overal stage finish time.

well mate tbh i give respect to those that arnt cocky. yes i read serveral of your threads and learnt quite a but tbh but aint going to be spoken to like s h i t. i have respect for those that can give accurate and helpful comments with prehaps a bit of humor but full fledged cocky isnt really on tbh



cheers mate. its m=a mate of mines he brought a redtop corsa b and wants me to help him work on it. hes a trained mechanic but i know pretty much nothing so just getting some ideas and hopefully learn a few things :)



aaa yes fair point. what are the db limits on tracks? cheers

db limit differs from track to track,some will evn state a limit online booking but wont test on the day

[xxo0pko0xx]

in wrc you have pits after getting to the stage.as long as you are at the start of the stage on time,if not you get time knocked off your overal stage finish time.



db limit differs from track to track,some will evn state a limit online booking but wont test on the day

:y: nice 1 mate

[stokesy]

now get some leary race cams,head work and re map.



i doubt the OP is going to be worried about dB limits and trackdays somehow tbh lol.

what cams u recommend? same with he head work??
i unfortunately dont no alot about tuning :( wel dont know much mechanically full styop really lol, but this site has been an unbelievable help, without you guys my car would be foooked! take a look through my progress thread and youll see all the problems ive had, and each 1 has been resolved thanks to you guys, so apreciate it alot :y:

so what cams and head work you rekon?
:)

[littleracer]

what cams u recommend? same with he head work??
i unfortunately dont no alot about tuning :( wel dont know much mechanically full styop really lol, but this site has been an unbelievable help, without you guys my car would be foooked! take a look through my progress thread and youll see all the problems ive had, and each 1 has been resolved thanks to you guys, so apreciate it alot :y:

so what cams and head work you rekon?
:)

get a vts engine before anything ;)

[stokesy]

that was part of my plan! insurance is a killer tho,
only being 19 sucks alot :(

[Ryan]

in wrc you have pits after getting to the stage.as long as you are at the start of the stage on time,if not you get time knocked off your overal stage finish time.


You have designated areas after stages when you can work on the cars, you also have stages which are back to back involving a small road section. ;)

[xxo0pko0xx]

get a vts engine before anything ;)

for higher spec? ive learnt most of mine from here as well :)
will agree with a vts engine. prehasps ph4, remap, flywheel and bodies?

if insurance is a killer dont tell them? lol they wont find out unless you deside to put it upside down and claim :)

[littleracer]

You have designated areas after stages when you can work on the cars, you also have stages which are back to back involving a small road section. ;)

yups,so can easily change a cat if it in the regs.im not to up on wrc tbh.

[Ryan]

yups,so can easily change a cat if it in the regs.im not to up on wrc tbh.

lol. you do know the designated areas are away from the stage? So they drive to the stage on the road section.

hence back to back stages, hold on whilst i stop my car let the engine cool down, swap cats, drive to the stage, let it cool down again refit cat etc.... ;)

[Ryan]

if insurance is a killer dont tell them? lol they wont find out unless you deside to put it upside down and claim :)

if you cant afford to insure it dont even bother doing the engine work. A copper can easily hear a bodied engine form a mile off, and they dont exactly look standard in an engine bay.

[littleracer]

lol. you do know the designated areas are away from the stage? So they drive to the stage on the road section.

hence back to back stages, hold on whilst i stop my car let the engine cool down, swap cats, drive to the stage, let it cool down again refit cat etc.... ;)

well im sure tyres,brakes,re-fuelling,checks on suspension etc all happen to.im sure they dont just get 2mins for checking,repairing the cars,do you?

as i said im not up on wrc and the latest regs.

[stokesy]

as tempting as it is to do and keep quiet, tisnt really worth it, spend all that time effort and money, and then get done, and with my luck id get caught :(.. ill leave it for now, maybe cam the vtr, skim the head maybe (whats that actually do?) remap etc..

[Ryan]

well im sure tyres,brakes,re-fuelling,checks on suspension etc all happen to.im sure they dont just get 2mins for checking,repairing the cars,do you?

as i said im not up on wrc and the latest regs.

There are timed areas to work on, depending on different rallys. Often its a 20min timed section where the team can work on the car. Theres timed road sections aswell, you need to sign into the stage at a set time, in different rallys if there is a fault with the car only the driver/co driver can work on the car you cant recieve external help.

So what you are saying is you made up the point about them swapping/changing parts in your head ;)

[littleracer]

for higher spec? ive learnt most of mine from here as well :)
will agree with a vts engine. prehasps ph4, remap, flywheel and bodies?

if insurance is a killer dont tell them? lol they wont find out unless you deside to put it upside down and claim :)

theres more chance of recongising the differences between an 16v and 8v engine from above then underside!

dont play about with the insurance,its not good.

with a vts engine your already starting off with 22bhp more if you have a 3 plug ecu or 30 if you have a single plug.

[xxo0pko0xx]

theres more chance of recongising the differences between an 16v and 8v engine from above then underside!

dont play about with the insurance,its not good.

with a vts engine your already starting off with 22bhp more if you have a 3 plug ecu or 30 if you have a single plug.

he does have a point
or come live in lincolshire. police here cant tell a modded car from mile off. my mate who brought the corsa were doing up. he knew the old owner for long time. a corsa b that looked standard apart from some 15" alloys and a exhaust system (he only declared a backbox on insurance) then under the bonnet is a 2.0 16v calibra engine thats ha a mani and fully cammed. yet he was pulled over plenty of times with not one found out about his engine :y:
depends on luck i spose

[littleracer]

There are timed areas to work on, depending on different rallys. Often its a 20min timed section where the team can work on the car. Theres timed road sections aswell, you need to sign into the stage at a set time, in different rallys if there is a fault with the car only the driver/co driver can work on the car you cant recieve external help.

So what you are saying is you made up the point about them swapping/changing parts in your head ;)

no i did not say that.

i dont see the point in wrc cars having cats on when there flinging a whole load of hydrocarbons down the exhaust when its common knowledge cats dont like neet fuel!!!!!
plus i dont think spitting out a whole load of flames out the back on the main road from stage to stage is exactly road legal is it?

but you do agree wrc cars have to be road legal dont you?;)

therefore what your saying is they put a cat on to keep emissions down,to be road legal,run that cat for a few days across different stages whilst throwing fuel down the zorst hence damaging the cat and that the wrc cars are aloud to produce flames going down the main road?

whilst still being all legal?

[Kelvin]

i cant resist any oportunity to sneak in with a little cossie moment.

Rod Birleys awesome machine spitting flames.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/gavin1/flame20out-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/gavin1/by20Roy20Crowther.jpg

[Ryan]

iirc wrc only have to be road legal on the road going from stage to stage.
once at the rally iam sure many parts are altered slightly.

no i did not say that.



;)

And depending on the rally they do have certain types of legality, hence why different drivers have been thrown out of rallys after police have caught them on road sections driving with 1 wheel missing etc...

They do still spit flames etc... between stages, ive followed several rally cars inbetween stages at the sunseeker, they dont do it as much because they are often coasting along at slow speed to avoid getting caught speeding by the police which are often about.

[xxo0pko0xx]

i cant resist any oportunity to sneak in with a little cossie moment.

Rod Birleys awesome machine spitting flames.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/gavin1/flame20out-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/gavin1/by20Roy20Crowther.jpg

nice. isnt what i mean tho i ment when theyre revving at start you just see little sparks blink inside the zorst.
that looks mean tho lol sortta like a flammer kit :)

[Kelvin]

well this is in car footage of Rods, i dont think he runs a flamer kit! lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS40RBjBnzg

you mean more like these then.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hajkXiKGGP8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FRaRVnX3wU

[littleracer]

;)

And depending on the rally they do have certain types of legality, hence why different drivers have been thrown out of rallys after police have caught them on road sections driving with 1 wheel missing etc...

They do still spit flames etc... between stages, ive followed several rally cars inbetween stages at the sunseeker, they dont do it as much because they are often coasting along at slow speed to avoid getting caught speeding by the police which are often about.

;) you accused me of saying 'So what you are saying is you made up the point about them swapping/changing parts in your head' which you havent proved.

iam sure they do change many parts before a stage wether assisted or repairs done by just co-driver and driver.

iv just searched for some info on wether wrc cars run cats on the stage...cant seem to dig up much though.
wasted opinions...they probs do run cats on the stage,they have so much money available cats are nothing to them.

[Ryan]

now its repairs before a stage and not non legal parts ;)

Ive allready explained to you about why its not poissible, the fact that not every stage has an allocated timed section to work on the car, and that on road sections they are not meant to have assisted help, and that the road sections are also timed.

Do you think they carry a nice big roller tool box and parts in the boot? :D

[Colin]

WRC cars have like 3 different engine maps. Stage, road etc. They all run cat converters as per regs. All restricted turbochargers, the way they sound is due to cam setup and anti-lag. Loads of different variations of anti-lag in WRC. They are capped at 300bhp but have about 750nm of torque due to the way they are setup, take the restrictor off and they will be mega powered.

P.s. No one can touch the car outside of service or Parc Ferme bar driver/navigator.

[Ryan]

They are capped at 300bhp but have about 750nm of torque due to the way they are setup, take the restrictor off and they will be mega powered.


And then run it in the rallycross championships :D

[Colin]

And then run it in the rallycross championships :D

Yeeeeehaaaa rallycross is MENTAL! lol

[Ryan]

Yeeeeehaaaa rallycross is MENTAL! lol

http://www.madmark.co.uk/index.aspx

probably the highest profile xsara in the rallycross scene. Remeber seeing vids of it catching fire.

[VTSarah]

Mine exhaust pops everywhere. The Caterham is even worse!

[RichT17]

As sam sais its the anti-lag system which keeps the turbo spooled, advances the timing and dumps all of the unburnt fuel into the turbine housing which then explodes because of the heat of the turbo, israntly spinning the turbo upto 150k rpm giving you stupid boost, then chucking flames out the back, have a look at the old celica gt4s the 3sgte engines had a 5th injector just for the anti lag system.

[xxo0pko0xx]

Thanks mate that's a big help :) would have loves to get mine to sound like a rally car as I just love the sound they make :( thought sound was purely the exhaust/induction system

[daz_zz_er]

exhaust :p

[Ashleyp]

for higher spec? ive learnt most of mine from here as well :)
will agree with a vts engine. prehasps ph4, remap, flywheel and bodies?

if insurance is a killer dont tell them? lol they wont find out unless you deside to put it upside down and claim :)

you'd better have very deep pockets ;)

can buy a 182 trophy for the cost of a well built engine of that calibre

[Ryan]

you'd better have very deep pockets ;)

can buy a 182 trophy for the cost of a well built engine of that calibre

Not seen many trophys for 4-5k tbh.

If the persons building it themselves its not a massive cost, espec if they are only running stock rocks. Its still on hydros.

[xxo0pko0xx]

Will agree build it yourself you can replace standard parts ad well. Deep pockets would be required but you'd have something that'll stand up to a scooby if you throw some performace pistons and a stripped interior In with the list :y:

[Ashleyp]

Not seen many trophys for 4-5k tbh.

If the persons building it themselves its not a massive cost, espec if they are only running stock rocks. Its still on hydros.

ive seen 2, neither were "minters" though :P

Will agree build it yourself you can replace standard parts ad well. Deep pockets would be required but you'd have something that'll stand up to a scooby if you throw some performace pistons and a stripped interior In with the list :y:

if driven properly a scooby would still be quicker than a saxo ;)

unless you compare something as highly modded as ryans saxo to a standardish scooby than it'd be pretty hard to be quicker than a scooby.

[AlexR]

I heard that they just fitted flamer and turbo whizzer kits to their backboxes?

[xxo0pko0xx]

ive seen 2, neither were "minters" though :P



if driven properly a scooby would still be quicker than a saxo ;)

unless you compare something as highly modded as ryans saxo to a standardish scooby than it'd be pretty hard to be quicker than a scooby.

well power to weight it should be alot better like you said :y: