this is a disgrace

[wadoryu]

just found this on the mail newspaper's forum bit about japman/ gav

"The reason that so many people on this forum are apearring heartless is the fact that they have probably had to endure the immense irritation that young drivers with modified hatchbacks cause. Illegal exhausts, souped up motors and reckless driving at all hours contribute to huge annoyance - which of course is the whole point of what these people do. I have 2 such 'people' living close to me and I wish them to hell and further most days, simply because of the nuisance, disturbance and annoyance they cause, and the danger they pose to everybody else."

what the fuck.

.edit http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1253123/Car-lover-dies-test-drive-crash-planned-buy-hot-hatch-21st-birthday.html

heres the link

[Mr_P]

I do hope they have a near death experience very soon

[frankie]

tar and brush comes to mind...

[wadoryu]

too right mate

[wadoryu]

tar and brush comes to mind...

tar and brush is there something im missing here?

[KINGVTS]

jesus, story written to whip simple minded up into a frenzy

[Meto]

tar and brush is there something im missing here?

He means the daily mail n00bs are tarring all young drivers with the same brush as being boy racers.

[wadoryu]

oh yeh that is pretty predictable from the mail

[lemon191]

unfortunatly this is the way alot of people see car modifying since there experience is with the local brainless chavs racing around ..not agreeing with what he was saying in anyway but to someone who has no knowledge of the modifying scene or the person involved it can look that way .

its funny how attitudes change when its some one closer to home ive seen many stories similar to this posted up here and peoples attitudes have been of uncaring and serves them right.

as said dont agree with them and it shouldnt happen to anyone but i just thought id put my thoughst to it

also i see in the paper it said he was viewing to buy his "dream car" now i never knew the guy but read alot of his posts over the tiem ive been here and i never really got teh impresson a 106 would be a dream car correct me if im wrong though

[wadoryu]

unfortunatly this is the way alot of people see car modifying since there experience is with the local brainless chavs racing around ..not agreeing with what he was saying in anyway but to someone who has no knowledge of the modifying scene or the person involved it does point that way from how ive read the stories .

is funny how attitudes change when its some one closer to home ive seen many stories similar to this posted up here and peoples attitudes have been of uncaring and serves them right.

as said dont agree with them and it shouldnt happen to anyone but i just thought id put my thoughst to it

also i see in the paper it said he was viewing to buy his "dream car" now i never knew the guy but read alot of his posts over the tiem ive been here and i never really got teh impresson a 106 would be a dream car correct me if im wrong though

i know what you mean mate as i thought he wanted an evo

[CHIP]

I think 'dream car' wasn't quite the right word. More a car he was enthusiastic about. He wouldn't have been such a long term member on here otherwise.

As lemon191 said, the problem is most people only take note of the nobby dicks who race around in their 1.1 Corsa's, Saxo's, 106's, Punto's etc and that is what give's modified car's the bad name.

They fail to notice (or most of them do) the 'enthusiast'. In my mind, the way to tell them apart is:

Boy Racer - Usually a fairly uncared for car. Won't be kept looking mint, won't be kept mechanically sound and usually has some bad choice modifications.

Enthusiast - Car very well kept both bodywork and mechanically wise. Good choice of modifications and you can tell when they're talking about their car that they know their stuff and love it.

Their are some people out there that recognise the decent folk though in car modifying. I've had plenty of old folk compliment me on my car and show an interest in it :y:

[Leooo]

The guy is obviously directing his comment at the driver of the car (from what I have read japman was the passenger, not the driver) - And also if I have read it correctly, the guy driving was selling the car and was showing off at the speed the car could do, then crashed. These people (driver) do give us a bad name, so technically what that guy is saying is spot on :wacko:

[davidharvey]

same knob wrote this .....

"Good to see Boris up and about and looking so well after surgery. Isn't it also good to see a man so proud of his nationality. No hint of shaven heads, tattoos and threatening behaviour, just a guy celebrating his German nationality. Many 'Ingerlish' could learn so much, if only they were able to read......."

[wadoryu]

I think 'dream car' wasn't quite the right word. More a car he was enthusiastic about. He wouldn't have been such a long term member on here otherwise.

As lemon191 said, the problem is most people only take note of the nobby dicks who race around in their 1.1 Corsa's, Saxo's, 106's, Punto's etc and that is what give's modified car's the bad name.

They fail to notice (or most of them do) the 'enthusiast'. In my mind, the way to tell them apart is:

Boy Racer - Usually a fairly uncared for car. Won't be kept looking mint, won't be kept mechanically sound and usually has some bad choice modifications.

Enthusiast - Car very well kept both bodywork and mechanically wise. Good choice of modifications and you can tell when they're talking about their car that they know their stuff and love it.

Their are some people out there that recognise the decent folk though in car modifying. I've had plenty of old folk compliment me on my car and show an interest in it :y:

i like your thinking mate. im only modding my 1.1 to get some practice really but then my car is the cleanest that i know off

[bide_furio]

some people have no heart at all! its pathetic!

[Predator_R32]

yep older folk suck

thing is they like football most likely

were as us in cars dont, i for one cant stand football and its all about cars

[Mr_P]

The guy is obviously directing his comment at the driver of the car (from what I have read japman was the passenger, not the driver) - And also if I have read it correctly, the guy driving was selling the car and was showing off at the speed the car could do, then crashed. These people (driver) do give us a bad name, so technically what that guy is saying is spot on :wacko:

The driver wasn't exactly a chavy boy racer with a 106. Alright he might have been gunning it but how many of us haven't? He was an 'enthusiast' as described above.

The driver is still critical in hospital and if he pulls through he's going to have enough shit to live with so doesn't need Joe public giving him more shit.

[CHIP]

yep older folk suck

thing is they like football most likely

were as us in cars dont, i for one cant stand football and its all about cars

Football sucks bottom haha. Engine's and wheels is where it's at :D Wether it be 4 or 2, motored (sp?) or push lol.

[Leooo]

The driver wasn't exactly a chavy boy racer with a 106. Alright he might have been gunning it but how many of us haven't? He was an 'enthusiast' as described above.

The driver is still critical in hospital and if he pulls through he's going to have enough shit to live with so doesn't need Joe public giving him more shit.

I can't really comment as I've never met the guy, what I do know is the facts though. And the facts are, he gunned his car and killed the passenger. In my book, he deserves all the "shit" that he gets.

[Mr_P]

yep older folk suck

thing is they like football most likely

were as us in cars dont, i for one cant stand football and its all about cars

+1 on this :p

[CHIP]

The driver wasn't exactly a chavy boy racer with a 106. Alright he might have been gunning it but how many of us haven't? He was an 'enthusiast' as described above.

The driver is still critical in hospital and if he pulls through he's going to have enough shit to live with so doesn't need Joe public giving him more shit.

True but... if i was selling my car the last thing i would do is take a potential buyer out in it and thrash the daylight's out of it and i especially wouldn't hit a ton with them in the car :S

I'm not going to call the lad as i don't know him. But i just don't quite understand his actions.

[jamieross]

its a bit of a joke, i left a comment basically saying about how saying a passenger deserves to die is unfair and about stereotyping us enthusiasts with 'boy racers'

[citroen_saxo_vtr]

Each to there own. yeh i sometimes go for a little tear but only when people arnt around, that dont mean im a "rude head" its natural for everyone but there is a limit like using roads like race tracks.... the right time and place and in most cases a track. SPEED KILLS its not worth doing a car up nice then trying to be something your not by racing it and then crashing it but thats how most youngster learn. theses days they dont learn because the bank will give then £££££££ to get a new car and do the same. I have been there and done it but borrowed off the parents but i actually see sense now take pride in my saxo, yes i want a 16v engine but its not for the speed its for the pride side of it making it the best i can.

[Leooo]

True but... if i was selling my car the last thing i would do is take a potential buyer out in it and thrash the daylight's out of it and i especially wouldn't hit a ton with them in the car :S

I'm not going to call the lad as i don't know him. But i just don't quite understand his actions.

That is what I was thinking. It would put me off buying the car instantly if I knew the driver abused his car. Also, if I was the passenger I wouldn't let the guy speed, I would tell him not to gun it as I am a VERY NERVOUS passenger.

[exfiestagirl]

For all those folk who think they are "safe" drivers so did I. I had been driving without a single mishap. Plenty of pals of mine had had accidents and I used to get laughed at for driving like an old person. Never speeded,never drunk drove, didn't even listen to loud music but through a series of very unfortunate events I had to car accidets. The 2nd being so bad I nearly died. You think what you want of me but when you turn your ignition on and drive away next time weither your car is pimped or not or your 17 or 70 anything could happen.

[Mr_P]

I can't really comment as I've never met the guy, what I do know is the facts though. And the facts are, he gunned his car and killed the passenger. In my book, he deserves all the "shit" that he gets.

You know the facts?

The facts printed in the press I assume?


Don't be so bloody narrow-minded will you. You haven't got any "facts" at all. None of us have. All we know is what's been written in newspapers. Hardly something that should be believed.

If Nathan pulls through he's going to have to live with that for the rest of his life. So doesn't need you, with all your facts, giving him more grief.

[Leooo]

For all those folk who think they are "safe" drivers so did I. I had been driving without a single mishap. Plenty of pals of mine had had accidents and I used to get laughed at for driving like an old person. Never speeded,never drunk drove, didn't even listen to loud music but through a series of very unfortunate events I had to car accidets. The 2nd being so bad I nearly died. You think what you want of me but when you turn your ignition on and drive away next time weither your car is pimped or not or your 17 or 70 anything could happen.


Yeah, you can be a great & safe driver. But you can't control the idiot who drives into you. This happened to me a couple of years back. It scares the life out of me how some people even pass their test.

[citroen_saxo_vtr]

They are actually discriminating use! We talk on a saxo furum but it dont mean we are "BOY RACERS"

[CHIP]

For all those folk who think they are "safe" drivers so did I. I had been driving without a single mishap. Plenty of pals of mine had had accidents and I used to get laughed at for driving like an old person. Never speeded,never drunk drove, didn't even listen to loud music but through a series of very unfortunate events I had to car accidets. The 2nd being so bad I nearly died. You think what you want of me but when you turn your ignition on and drive away next time weither your car is pimped or not or your 17 or 70 anything could happen.

Speeded hehe..

Anyway, i don't think anyone was implying that isn't true. We all know everytime we go out in the car there's a risk. But it's the same as going a walk, climbing a ladder and opening the door to a stranger.

[Mr_P]

Yeah, you can be a great & safe driver. But you can't control the idiot who drives into you. This happened to me a couple of years back. It scares the life out of me how some people even pass their test.

Drive like everybody else on the road is a uselessly incompetent blindfolded idiot.

Then if you do have an accident there is absolutely no way that you could ever get the blame because you wouldn't have put yourself into a position to allow for an accident.

[Leooo]

You know the facts?

The facts printed in the press I assume?


Don't be so bloody narrow-minded will you. You haven't got any "facts" at all. None of us have. All we know is what's been written in newspapers. Hardly something that should be believed.

If Nathan pulls through he's going to have to live with that for the rest of his life. So doesn't need you, with all your facts, giving him more grief.


So you are telling me that the driver didn't speed his car and kill the passenger? they are the facts according to what I have read on here and the online news. What have you heard?

[Mr_P]

So you are telling me that the driver didn't speed his car and kill the passenger? they are the facts according to what I have read on here and the online news. What have you heard?

They aren't facts mate.

They're hearsay.

It also says that the 106 was his "dream car" we all know it bloody wasn't. It was a car he liked.

I'm not denying he was speeding. I'm saying you don't know, for sure, what happened.

And I'm not having this argument with you anymore, Because you're talking crap :D

[Leooo]

They aren't facts mate.

They're hearsay.

It also says that the 106 was his "dream car" we all know it bloody wasn't. It was a car he liked.

I'm not denying he was speeding. I'm saying you don't know, for sure, what happened.

And I'm not having this argument with you anymore, Because you're talking crap :D

I was referring to the huge thread on here than I sat and read though.

If you think I am talking crap that is fine. In my opinion, if he was speeding and he killed the innocent passenger then he his absolutely at fault. :wall:

[Gabbastard]

Its from a Daily Mail reader, what do you expect?

[djmartin]

its a double edged sword really.

for example

if I went to view a car and I went in the car as a passenger and the driver decided to boot it id tell him to slow down instantly..just on the basis of I dont know what driving skills this person has & he is putting my life basicly in his hands.


which is what has unfortunatly happend to poor gav, gav might have been better off driving it from the start as he might have been a more confident and better driver all around compared to the person who owned the car.

Today I was out in the X5 I went around a corner slightly to fast (il have to admit) the rear left wheel spun and the car judderd like it wanted to over steer, due to me having some more advanced training i.e skid pan etc etc I was able to correct the car in a calm manner, I never drive with one hand on the wheel I ALWAYS have both on. my seats are all upright and not boyracer style (as the older generation like to call it) slung back. that seat position you think you have full control of the car..stop kidding yourself no you dont your body posture is nowhere near at the optimum position to re correct an error quickly. if that was the case then you would see F1,Rally,D1 drivers all laid back in there seats with one hand on the wheel.



what im gettin at here is non of us know exactly how the owner of that car drives he might have had the seat back chilled out at 100mph and only one hand on the wheel. if the back end starts to come out you dont have a chance on this planet to correct it as the G forces pin you to your seat which wastes a good 2 seconds or so of correction time. thats 2 seconds to late!

I have had the older generation ebfore having goes at me for having a loud/fast car the thing is back in there days there was no such thing as a supercar a morris minor or a mini classic is far from a super car dont you think. so to them they dont like to se these cars as they did not get the chance in there youth to experince them so there is also a bit of jealousy with in them. I drove down my street the legal speed limit well actually alot less 20 in a 30 but I got complaints saying I was speeding I then got that annoyed I asked a couple of the house owners to stand outside with there kids I drove past and asked them what speed I was doing non got it right someone had the cheek to say I was doing 35.

its just one of those things really if a noise is so loud from an exhaust it interfears with someones private life within there own walls (i.e there house) then yes its obvious there goin to get pi**ed off after a while. this is why I purchased a Baffler to put into my back box on a night time so the car (when I get it back) is alot less louder.

[eewun]

I'd put money down on the person who said that was doing the exact same thing when they were 17-18!! I mean, excuse the lads down his road for having an interest.....jeez

[lemon191]

the one bit i could never understand is why he allowed the guy to do that kind of driving when he doesnt know the guy and the roads he was speeding through didnt exactly sound like a nice straight roads.

id never have let it get that far if it was me personally because at those speeds i dont care how good a driver the person might be teh chance of getting the car back in control are slim

[djmartin]

the one bit i could never understand is why he allowed the guy to do that kind of driving when he doesnt know the guy and the roads he was speeding through didnt exactly sound like a nice straight roads.

id never have let it get that far if it was me personally because at those speeds i dont care how good a driver the person might be teh chance of getting the car back in control are slim

the thing is how do we know he was doing 100mph? seems strangre ow its been rounded off perfectly to 100 dont you think?????????

he could have been doing 60/70/80/90.

for it been a 100mph accident the car held up pritty dam well dont you think?

when I had my accident in my saxo I was at 40mph and the front end of my car was worse then that in the mail! its not the car itself thats done it, its the sudden de acceleration in speed that is the killer or missles as they call them coming into the cockpit! so to me id say it was about 60/70mph but im no police officer or crime scene investigater so even my 60/70mph guess work means jack shit!

[Leooo]

the thing is how do we know he was doing 100mph? seems strangre ow its been rounded off perfectly to 100 dont you think?????????

he could have been doing 60/70/80/90.

for it been a 100mph accident the car held up pritty dam well dont you think?

when I had my accident in my saxo I was at 40mph and the front end of my car was worse then that in the mail! its not the car itself thats done it, its the sudden de acceleration in speed that is the killer or missles as they call them coming into the cockpit! so to me id say it was about 60/70mph but im no police officer or crime scene investigater so even my 60/70mph guess work means jack shit!

I don't really think the exact speed matters, what ever speed it was, it was enough to kill :n:

[JamesR]

A Rallye isn't really "High powered" is it lol

[SNewham]

My response....

This article is an absolute disgrace. What a completely narrow minded piece of reporting. Did you once stop and take the time to think about how the friends and family feel about an article like this which you have completely spun on it's head to try and prove something about 'young drivers' and their attitudes.

Well let me tell you something. Every single person who has commented on this 'article' has been a 'young driver' at some point in their life. Whether that classifies them as inexperienced or slightly wreckless is besides the point.

However, using this young mans death as some sort of political statement about the youth of today is an absolute outrage and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

[djmartin]

A Rallye isn't really "High powered" is it lol

no but it can still get to 100mph lol.

does anyone on here know if it was a massive long straight before the bend????????????????????????


I bet no one does unless they live there and know the road!

the speed does matter Leoo if it said in the report 'a passenger dies in 30mph accident' do you honestly think all these tastless boyracer remarks would be popping up? eh no. the older generation would have naf all to argue or complain about as it was done within the law and speed limit. the fact it was a pug 106 and was supposed to be goin 100mph gives the older generation fuel to put on the fire. if it was a lambo that crashed at 100mph you would get comments such as ..ha thats what you get for been a rich t**t etc etc............you cant avoid critisism I've lived with the dam thing most my bloody life when doing performing arts or when i've been out djin!


somethings you cant avoid and thats narrow minded hypocrits who more then likley if we searched there past have done something bad aswell!

[Ryyy]

It's just brainless people slotting car enthusiasts / modifiers into the "chav" brackets, and stereotyping as everyone does..not just the media.

They obviously don't understand the hurt this has caused the lads family and mates, it's like when papers "twist" the story and the statements of soldiers in Afghanistan, there was a lad who had a twin who was in Iraq at the same time, and on his birthday he was killed in action, yet The Sun only put down the fact that the lad had a twin..and that was it, that was all that mattered to them.

Abit off topic but nevertheless, the media will never understand the hurt until the same happens to them.

[lemon191]

the thing is how do we know he was doing 100mph? seems strangre ow its been rounded off perfectly to 100 dont you think?????????

he could have been doing 60/70/80/90.

for it been a 100mph accident the car held up pritty dam well dont you think?

when I had my accident in my saxo I was at 40mph and the front end of my car was worse then that in the mail! its not the car itself thats done it, its the sudden de acceleration in speed that is the killer or missles as they call them coming into the cockpit! so to me id say it was about 60/70mph but im no police officer or crime scene investigater so even my 60/70mph guess work means jack shit!

true another case of the media taking a ball park figure but even at 70 - 80 still a high speed for the type of road they describe but also with the bad weather we have had and all the pot holes created because of it just adds to the danger i mean i cant anywhere near me with out the roads have atleast a few potholes some of which are absolute craters where if hit at high speed could not only damage the car but easily send it flying into any direction obviously this is not teh case here else no dout the media would have jumped on that news just to make councils etc look bad i was just pointing out a big danger that they ignored

[lemon191]

Abit off topic but nevertheless, the media will never understand the hurt until the same happens to them.

unfortunatly though i think we have made them this way after all they are just another business out to make money so they are obviously going to write it to make it more interesting as that is what sells and thats why they do it because we the public carry on buying it so thats what they think we want to see.

nothing is a service anymore its all about money and for them money comes before other people.

[Ryan]

my responses didnt get on lol!

I think calling the writers and the people replying the usual uneducated monkeys associated with the daily mail didnt go down well :D

The people seem to forget that most family cars can do over 100mph, im sure most of the grandads in their jags can to ;)

The main issue with the article is the headline leads people to think gavin was the driver.

[djmartin]

tbh I think thats why the X5 went on me today due to potholes either that or some diesel on the road.

[Ryyy]

unfortunatly though i think we have made them this way after all they are just another business out to make money so they are obviously going to write it to make it more interesting as that is what sells and thats why they do it because we the public carry on buying it so thats what they think we want to see.

nothing is a service anymore its all about money and for them money comes before other people.

Suppose yeah...

Tis a cliche, but money makes the world go round sadly.

[djmartin]

my responses didnt get on lol!

I think calling the writers and the people replying the usual uneducated monkeys associated with the daily mail didnt go down well :D

The people seem to forget that most family cars can do over 100mph, im sure most of the grandads in their jags can to ;)

The main issue with the article is the headline leads people to think gavin was the driver.

you calling my dad a grandad ryan lols.

you cheeky monkey.

you'll find to some older generation putting the foot down whilst on the road is not as thrilling as it used to be. my dad drives like an old fart. I always ask him why you driving so dam slow he replies with, stone chips, fuel prices and cant see the point in goin fast on these crap roads!

lols

[Ryan]

you calling my dad a grandad ryan lols.

you cheeky monkey.

you'll find to some older generation putting the foot down whilst on the road is not as thrilling as it used to be. my dad drives like an old fart. I always ask him why you driving so dam slow he replies with, stone chips, fuel prices and cant see the point in goin fast on these crap roads!

lols

The point is they made a big deal out of a speed which is attainable in almost every car on the road today lol

[djmartin]

The point is they made a big deal out of a speed which is attainable in almost every car on the road today lol

which I have said in one of my other previous posts LOLS!

[moxy89]

i like your thinking mate. im only modding my 1.1 to get some practice really but then my car is the cleanest that i know off

cleanest that you know of... are you dreaming

its shocking how they single us all out.. like chip said there is a huge difference between the boy racers and the people who care for there motors...

[scot-ish]

there are some certain facts. and what seems to be some sort of cover up, as some threads wer removed pretty quickly after the accident.

from what i read into it, and read on the day the car was being test driven

the car had no MOT, the Car also had a Dodgey rear shock, as gavin was asking about buying a set, because the owner had made it clear the shock wasnt in a fit state.

as if that isnt bad enough, its seems like the car has been driven at too high of a speed for the conditions, wether it be to the rear shock failing, or just poor driving.

one thing we can take from this is that a poor young true car enthusiast has lost his life, yet we still get these "coffin dodgers" putting on smart arse comments on the net.

like has been said, if the driver pulls through, he is going to have to live with the fact he killed someone. not a nice thing to go through your life with.

[Ryan]

yes i noticed that the threads on 106rallye soon got removed ;)

shame there were no screen dumps of it.

[Willow]

My response....

nice mate.

[wardesaxoboy]

just read the daily mail forum and i am disgutted by the smut which has been written in the comments section by some people!

[Mattymcn]

It makes my blood boil to see these coffin dodgers post up comments like this,

My dads friend who was a test rider with triumph motorcycle along side my dad was killed last year when a stupid old fart pulled out of a junction and killed the test driver instantly,

His excuse. I didn't see him because I didn't have my correct glasses....

How many `boy racers` do you hear of pulling out of a junction infront of a motorcyclist, NON!!!

And the worst of it,death by dangerous driving he is being charged with, revoke his license and suspended sentence. So these stupid dozy old bastards need to stop posting these comments and watch out before they end a mans life, need to take a page from there own book....

[Mattymcn]

Whoops double post, bloody phone

[lemon191]

How many `boy racers` do you hear of pulling out of a junction infront of a motorcyclist, NON!!


i think its pretty safe to say younger drivers have more accidents on the road than older ones imo the fact our insurance is so much higher proves this.

however i do think 60 - 70+ year olds should do some form of road safety test each year weither it be a driving test again or just a eye / medical examination i dont know which would be better tbh