Track/road suspension setup

[jsdvtr]

Im turning my vtr/s into a track/weekend car and will be coming offroad but the money i will be spending on car will be aimed at the engine and suspension setup.

Im looking at getting a fairly desent setup tbh, i just think it would be rude not too with how saxos handle and its probably the best thing i enjoy about the car so why not, and with it being turned into a track car but also now and again in summer on the road. I want it to be able to carry the speed round corners out on track.

Currently i am running-

-50mm apex kit, rear to match,
Omp upper and lower strut braces
Powerflex lower engine mount
Bbm group n gearbox mount
Toyo t1s tires on front, soon to be changed as running low and budget rears
Polyrace front wishbone bushes (to be fitted)
Powerflex arb bushes (to be fitted)

The apex kit is good but tbh i want it abit stiffer damper wise as can be pretty bouncy down back lanes.

Im looking at getting-

Bilstein group n dampers
Not sure on springs but probably -40mm??
Compbrake solid top mounts
Main engine mount bush??
Polyrace rear beam bushes, when get refurbed beam
Not sure what tires to get allround also?? T1R? Would like R888 tbh

Brakes wise ive got gti6 setup with standard ebc pads and mintex discs i think at front and rear im buying martorq group ns and got mintex m1144 to go on.
Im either looking at getting uprated pads for front or may upgrade to wilwoods when get more power and may be needed with being on track depending on how much i get car weight down too.

What setup would you reccomend?? Thanks

[Ashleyp]

adding a stiffer set up wont make it less bouncy down back roads... in fact, it'll make it more bouncy... unless your refering to the crashiness (not even a word) of the suspension, ie incorrectly matched springs & damper rates.

but anyway, on topic:

-40mm (or whatever the drop will be) is less of a worry in these kind of situations, where its the spring rate in relation to the dampers in use that become more important. (obv the drop = geometry etc etc)

so, you get custom made springs (order by LBS rating / length) to match your needs. bare in mind you can NOT go shorter than 240mm springs on a standard strut pan.

also, if your going for a stiff set up, it can cause the chassis to dome so some form of strut re-inforcement may be needed (especially if bouncing around on the back roads alot)

You may be considering thicker torsion bars / different ARBs too depending on how stiff the car is.

with regards to brakes; gti6 set up will be fine with decent pads (EBC yellows for example). The rear isnt as important and many people run OE spec mintex pads and OE discs on the rear which costs less than £40 on egay for both. Providing you have sufficient cooling on the front brakes, and pads that can take higher temps, you'll be fine.

As for tyres. dont waste your cash on r888's as theyre highly overpriced these days. If your mind is set on some track tyres than either Kumho V70a's or Yokohama A048's are the most common / easiest to get hold of, both of which said to be far superior to the toyos. Alternativly, hankook sell the RS2 which is only £55 a corner but is essentially a track / fast road tyre. T1R's arent as great as everyone makes out, theyre just a road tyre, nothing more.

Somthing else worth noting, track tyres are a few KG's heavier than normal road tyres (due to a totally different construction) and thus it may be worth considering some lightweight wheels (which will also aid cooling). Afterall, less unsprung weight can be more important than reducing the sprung weight

I'm sure Aron / Danny will have far more knowledge than I on this though.

[Aron]

Now you say track/weekend, are you actualy going to do much track work to justify big money on track set ups? If you are going to do one or two track days then you need to aim for more of just a road setup.

Big camber is not a nice thing on the road but is brilliant on track. Big torsion bars are good on the track but not so on bouncy back roads. I could go on all day with this so you really need to decided on what the car will be aimed at.

A allot of track days with some back roads will use one setup but mainly back roads with the odd track day will be another. Personaly build your car for the road, the most imporant part of track driving is the driver. AlexR proved it well at Llandow the other week, basicaly standard rallye but was very quick.

For the road then standard torsion bars, Bilstein B8's, 200lb spring would do fine on the road. Not too stiff so will cope. Group N's are good and if you can find a cheap set then go for it but dont get caught up on the band wagon.

Tyre wise do not go for "cut slicks" on the road, will not get the temperature in them and you will eat through them. Rainsport 2's are very good(have experienced them and would be my choice)

[sir_dave]

To be perfectly honest, i wouldnt bother spending any more money than i have - the setup will still run things around most things & is most importantly, fun.

Bilstein B8's with 155lb -45mm Faulkners.

Unless you are racing driver, you wont notice the difference tbh ...

[stevosvts]

To be perfectly honest, i wouldnt bother spending any more money than i have - the setup will still run things around most things & is most importantly, fun.

Bilstein B8's with 155lb -45mm Faulkners.

Unless you are racing driver, you wont notice the difference tbh ...

I have the same set up and I cant faiult it, I would recomend

[jsdvtr]

adding a stiffer set up wont make it less bouncy down back roads... in fact, it'll make it more bouncy... unless your refering to the crashiness (not even a word) of the suspension, ie incorrectly matched springs & damper rates.

but anyway, on topic:

-40mm (or whatever the drop will be) is less of a worry in these kind of situations, where its the spring rate in relation to the dampers in use that become more important. (obv the drop = geometry etc etc)

so, you get custom made springs (order by LBS rating / length) to match your needs. bare in mind you can NOT go shorter than 240mm springs on a standard strut pan.

also, if your going for a stiff set up, it can cause the chassis to dome so some form of strut re-inforcement may be needed (especially if bouncing around on the back roads alot)

You may be considering thicker torsion bars / different ARBs too depending on how stiff the car is.

with regards to brakes; gti6 set up will be fine with decent pads (EBC yellows for example). The rear isnt as important and many people run OE spec mintex pads and OE discs on the rear which costs less than £40 on egay for both. Providing you have sufficient cooling on the front brakes, and pads that can take higher temps, you'll be fine.

As for tyres. dont waste your cash on r888's as theyre highly overpriced these days. If your mind is set on some track tyres than either Kumho V70a's or Yokohama A048's are the most common / easiest to get hold of, both of which said to be far superior to the toyos. Alternativly, hankook sell the RS2 which is only £55 a corner but is essentially a track / fast road tyre. T1R's arent as great as everyone makes out, theyre just a road tyre, nothing more.

Somthing else worth noting, track tyres are a few KG's heavier than normal road tyres (due to a totally different construction) and thus it may be worth considering some lightweight wheels (which will also aid cooling). Afterall, less unsprung weight can be more important than reducing the sprung weight

I'm sure Aron / Danny will have far more knowledge than I on this though.

I have pro race 1.2 atm but may looking at getting ultra leggaras in the future as theyre nicer and less common and really like look of them.

So you think standard discs for rear rather than minext ones? Which?


Now you say track/weekend, are you actualy going to do much track work to justify big money on track set ups? If you are going to do one or two track days then you need to aim for more of just a road setup.

Big camber is not a nice thing on the road but is brilliant on track. Big torsion bars are good on the track but not so on bouncy back roads. I could go on all day with this so you really need to decided on what the car will be aimed at.

A allot of track days with some back roads will use one setup but mainly back roads with the odd track day will be another. Personaly build your car for the road, the most imporant part of track driving is the driver. AlexR proved it well at Llandow the other week, basicaly standard rallye but was very quick.

For the road then standard torsion bars, Bilstein B8's, 200lb spring would do fine on the road. Not too stiff so will cope. Group N's are good and if you can find a cheap set then go for it but dont get caught up on the band wagon.

Tyre wise do not go for "cut slicks" on the road, will not get the temperature in them and you will eat through them. Rainsport 2's are very good(have experienced them and would be my choice)

I had yoko specs 2 before the t1s i have atm which i liked but i read the thread about the rainsports and really thinking of getting.

How much stiffer are group n's to b8's?? What springs should i go for?

[yr51ocw]

bare in mind you can NOT go shorter than 240mm springs on a standard strut pan.


A rather bold statement. This measurement which you have regurgitated from other members on here is based on a bilstein damper, however if you get shorter dampers then the spring pans are closer under full extension, therefor being able to fit a shorter spring without the worry of dislocation.

[yr51ocw]

Unless you are racing driver, you wont notice the difference tbh ...

Most sensible thing i have read on here in a long time.

[Ashleyp]

A rather bold statement. This measurement which you have regurgitated from other members on here is based on a bilstein damper, however if you get shorter dampers then the spring pans are closer under full extension, therefor being able to fit a shorter spring without the worry of dislocation.

Bold in what way sir?

on standard strut pans, once lifted anything shorter than 240mm will fall out of place, and thus an MOT fail

by the way, im not quite sure if you'd noticed, but the OP was talking about buying bilsten groupN's, and thus my "regurgitated" statement would not be irrelivant to this situation

also, to the OP i noticed you already own the mitex brake bits, you may aswell fit them now. i was only suggesting buying OE replacements to save cash.

[Mochachino]

IMO between the two setups youve mentioned you wont see the benifit with what your wanting with this maintaining speed round corners etc.

I wouldnt do everything in one go either..

Id get some dampers which are capable of havng a range of different lb springs and test them out at the more road worthy spec and then work your way up. That way you dont have to waste money on changing dampers to suit different lb springs but have some dampesr which suit the lb springs your testing out.

Wouldnt bother with torsion bars to start off with.

Just get different dampers if you really want to and some adequate springs and then see how they do and change to how you want etc and build up your setup.

As Aron has said its about the driver.. there was a video posted a 1.4 clio and a 182 irc and the better driver in the 1.4 and came out quicker than the 182.

[axsaxoman]

"my two penny worth"
if its not being trailored to track --its a fast raod car
so bilstein 0351 on front
1276 on rear ,springs of your choice( I am biased ) --and if anything at all for the rear,then uprated ARB only ,it will be well mannered and predictable .
no lower than 40mm from std --lower than that anddriveshafts +bottom arms etc are at wrong angles and will upset geometry ,
only other thing worth doing as and when needed due to age is to change front bottom arms for REAL grpn ones + hard rubber top strut mtgs and maybe uprated rear axle mountings--not the poly bush rubbish .
.then learn to drive it and fine tune tyre pressures to suit your" turn-in style"
that is the set-up i fit + recomend for 250+ bhp cars
so if it is drivable and predictable with that power it can,t be that far off from perfect .

[jsdvtr]

Bold in what way sir?

on standard strut pans, once lifted anything shorter than 240mm will fall out of place, and thus an MOT fail

by the way, im not quite sure if you'd noticed, but the OP was talking about buying bilsten groupN's, and thus my "regurgitated" statement would not be irrelivant to this situation

also, to the OP i noticed you already own the mitex brake bits, you may aswell fit them now. i was only suggesting buying OE replacements to save cash.

Ye im looking at either b8 or group ns depending if much difference but tbh on kams site, you may aswell spend the extra £40 or what ever it is for group n's unless they would be too harse for some peoples use but i like having stiff suspension.

Well i bought the mintex rear pads but havent bought new discs yet as the rears need replacing.

IMO between the two setups youve mentioned you wont see the benifit with what your wanting with this maintaining speed round corners etc.

I wouldnt do everything in one go either..

Id get some dampers which are capable of havng a range of different lb springs and test them out at the more road worthy spec and then work your way up. That way you dont have to waste money on changing dampers to suit different lb springs but have some dampesr which suit the lb springs your testing out.

Wouldnt bother with torsion bars to start off with.

Just get different dampers if you really want to and some adequate springs and then see how they do and change to how you want etc and build up your setup.

As Aron has said its about the driver.. there was a video posted a 1.4 clio and a 182 irc and the better driver in the 1.4 and came out quicker than the 182.

Well atm i have a ok setup, it can be alot better but for the money it has cost me its a good setup but im looking to improve alot. Change of tires defo, solid top mounts, harder damper and stiffer springs, also a fullcage(stiffer chassis up to), Fit front bushes.

"my two penny worth"
if its not being trailored to track --its a fast raod car
so bilstein 0351 on front
1276 on rear ,springs of your choice( I am biased ) --and if anything at all for the rear,then uprated ARB only ,it will be well mannered and predictable .
no lower than 40mm from std --lower than that anddriveshafts +bottom arms etc are at wrong angles and will upset geometry ,
only other thing worth doing as and when needed due to age is to change front bottom arms for REAL grpn ones + hard rubber top strut mtgs and maybe uprated rear axle mountings--not the poly bush rubbish .
.then learn to drive it and fine tune tyre pressures to suit your" turn-in style"
that is the set-up i fit + recomend for 250+ bhp cars
so if it is drivable and predictable with that power it can,t be that far off from perfect .

Ive seen the uprated front wishbones and looks wise look pretty cool and can tell there could be alot of difference to be made, what sort of price can these be had for?

Im looking at replacing all suspension parts with new tbh, ive got new arb droplinks already, got with car.

[jsdvtr]

What suspension parts should i uprate i.e. ball joints, track rod ends, etc? And looking at getting better wishbones too? Like the solid ones.

[raunchz]

Top mounts, wishbone bushes (front and rear although I'd leave the rear as oem)), arb bushes and then a nice shock/spring setup

On the rear, stiffer beam mounts, then a arb/damper/torsion bar combo that is in balance with the front - or out of balance one way or the other depending on driver preference

[jsdvtr]

Top mounts, wishbone bushes (front and rear although I'd leave the rear as oem)), arb bushes and then a nice shock/spring setup

On the rear, stiffer beam mounts, then a arb/damper/torsion bar combo that is in balance with the front - or out of balance one way or the other depending on driver preference

Ive got wishbone and arb bushes to be fitted. the powerflex arb bushes 106/ax, will these fit? Saw somewhere that 106 have thinner arb than saxo so wernt sure.
Will be uprating track rod ends, balljoints, bushes, top mounts at front.

Rear will be getting new beam (IM axles) lowered 40mm, polyrace bushes. Will look at torsion bars, etc at a later date when have got better spring/ damper setup.

Going to be needing tires soon too so will be looking at rainsports i think.

[Ashleyp]

Ive got wishbone and arb bushes to be fitted. the powerflex arb bushes 106/ax, will these fit? Saw somewhere that 106 have thinner arb than saxo so wernt sure.
Will be uprating track rod ends, balljoints, bushes, top mounts at front.

Rear will be getting new beam (IM axles) lowered 40mm, polyrace bushes. Will look at torsion bars, etc at a later date when have got better spring/ damper setup.

Going to be needing tires soon too so will be looking at rainsports i think.

A track car with rainsports?

wise choice? think again.

[Aron]

There is nothing wrong with rainsport 2's. Bic used them at LLandow

[raunchz]

Ive got wishbone and arb bushes to be fitted. the powerflex arb bushes 106/ax, will these fit? Saw somewhere that 106 have thinner arb than saxo so wernt sure.
Will be uprating track rod ends, balljoints, bushes, top mounts at front.

Rear will be getting new beam (IM axles) lowered 40mm, polyrace bushes. Will look at torsion bars, etc at a later date when have got better spring/ damper setup.

Going to be needing tires soon too so will be looking at rainsports i think.

How are you uprating them?

[Ashleyp]

There is nothing wrong with rainsport 2's. Bic used them at LLandow

not saying theyre bad tyres at all. reading my comment back it seems as if i did

but i mean, if your going to be spending loads on a big power engine, and loads on a suspension set up, then surely semi-slicks would be on the cards?

maybe it's just me, but tyres and suspension are far more beneficial than the throttlebodied engine he is planning imo

[raunchz]

not saying theyre bad tyres at all. reading my comment back it seems as if i did

but i mean, if your going to be spending loads on a big power engine, and loads on a suspension set up, then surely semi-slicks would be on the cards?

maybe it's just me, but tyres and suspension are far more beneficial than the throttlebodied engine he is planning imo

100% agree with that.

Those Hankook RS2's do get a good write-up online, tempting to give them a try as my next tyre once the T1r's wear out.

[jono83]

Bit of a thread hi-jack but have you had any issues with the lower strut brace scraping being lowered 50mm? I am thinking of getting one thats all

[raunchz]

Bit of a thread hi-jack but have you had any issues with the lower strut brace scraping being lowered 50mm? I am thinking of getting one thats all

lol - I'd say you'll catch it but that doesn't stop people doing it when 'slammed' 60mm+

[frankie]

do you want me to get a picture?

of what i can only describe as a mangeled bit of CDS/mild steel?

[jono83]

I am going 50mm with R Wheels so i may have some issues then, i may get some S wheels as i imagine this will raise the distance from floor to chassis.

@Frankie is it really that bad lol?

[raunchz]

I am going 50mm with R Wheels so i may have some issues then, i may get some S wheels as i imagine this will raise the distance from floor to chassis.

@Frankie is it really that bad lol?

you can work it out.

14" vtr wheel with a 185/55/14 tyre will have a radius of 279.55 mm

195/45/15 vts wheel will have a radius of 278.25 mm

so you car would be 1mm lower with vts wheels.

if you fitted the vts wheels with a 50 profile, the radius would move to 288mm - so you'd effectively be 10mm higher from the ground.

[frankie]

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j103/frankie640/SDC10486.jpg

The only reason i really keep it on is to protech the manifold.

i live in the depths of sommerset, i live up a ghetto lane, and constantly hit rocks and bottom in out.

I know where most the bumps are so avoid them, but when i forget and hit summit i shit myself lol.

[jono83]

Speed bump are not to bad around me either but i also live a "Ghetto lane" lol

[Saaamon]

Ive got wishbone and arb bushes to be fitted. the powerflex arb bushes 106/ax, will these fit? Saw somewhere that 106 have thinner arb than saxo so wernt sure.
Will be uprating track rod ends, balljoints, bushes, top mounts at front.

Rear will be getting new beam (IM axles) lowered 40mm, polyrace bushes. Will look at torsion bars, etc at a later date when have got better spring/ damper setup.

Going to be needing tires soon too so will be looking at rainsports i think.

Why not put in some track hours with the car and develop it from there? All to often people have cars that are over spec'd for what their intended use is, I.e coilovers on a car that see's track twice a year etc.

[Ashleyp]

Why not put in some track hours with the car and develop it from there? All to often people have cars that are over spec'd for what their intended use is, I.e coilovers on a car that see's track twice a year etc.

Very very true

there are loads and loads of people on this site with very high spec "track cars"

but have they ever seen track action? nope.

the 'best' track drivers are those who actually spend time on track. not on their driveway adding the latest bit of kit to their car

[jsdvtr]

How are you uprating them?

Fitting new parts as i have got brand new track rods to be fitted and aparrently need new bottom arms as was meant to be getting bushes fitted to them.

not saying theyre bad tyres at all. reading my comment back it seems as if i did

but i mean, if your going to be spending loads on a big power engine, and loads on a suspension set up, then surely semi-slicks would be on the cards?

maybe it's just me, but tyres and suspension are far more beneficial than the throttlebodied engine he is planning imo

Well theyre would be no point me spending loads of money on semi's when i will still be using the car daily for 6 months or so.

[Ashleyp]

Well theyre would be no point me spending loads of money on semi's when i will still be using the car daily for 6 months or so.

second set of wheels & decent tyres + some time on track will create a much faster driver / car than spending over £4k on an engine re-build...

[jsdvtr]

Why not put in some track hours with the car and develop it from there? All to often people have cars that are over spec'd for what their intended use is, I.e coilovers on a car that see's track twice a year etc.

Im hopefully going to be doing track day at croft sometime soon which a mate is organising.

[jsdvtr]

second set of wheels & decent tyres + some time on track will create a much faster driver / car than spending over £4k on an engine re-build...

Well im going to get a decent suspension setup and have now got a s1 box with diff in which i am fitting soon and know that this would be a better than say a set of cams as would make car quicker on acceleration and have alot better grip on the corners. And will have a basic bodie setup at first then build up to be better.

I have been thinking of a 2nd set of track wheels as may get some ultralegs but unsure on tires.

[Ashleyp]

Im hopefully going to be doing track day at croft sometime soon which a mate is organising.

good stuff, just make sure you get out on track as much as possible imo

there are loads of people that get caught up in buying the "right parts" for their "track car" for it to never see action... Just proves the ASW factor of saxp, where people would rather have stuff for bragging rights as opposed to it serving a purpose

having a fancy carbon roof, or a fancy throttleboddied engine doesnt mean a good driver in a pretty standard vts can't piss on you round a circuit.

[jsdvtr]

good stuff, just make sure you get out on track as much as possible imo

there are loads of people that get caught up in buying the "right parts" for their "track car" for it to never see action... Just proves the ASW factor of saxp, where people would rather have stuff for bragging rights as opposed to it serving a purpose

having a fancy carbon roof, or a fancy throttleboddied engine doesnt mean a good driver in a pretty standard vts can't piss on you round a circuit.

Ye well im hoping to have like a basic bodie setup i.e. ph3, at power bodies, pred ecu then have a good suspension setup aswell and cage will be getting fitted properly so that will add some stiffness :y:

Will also look at getting some more weight loss (fibreglass bonnet) and battery moved to back of car soon.

[willsy]

Ye well im hoping to have like a basic bodie setup i.e. ph3, at power bodies, pred ecu then have a good suspension setup aswell and cage will be getting fitted properly so that will add some stiffness :y:

You'll have a pretty good base for which to start then :y:

If you're serious about improving your driving and getting a bit quicker round track you'd probably be best doing a couple of days to get a feel for it and grabbing any advice you can from people who have done it for years. Maybe even grab a couple of professional tuition lessons if you're really keen.

Someone could do trackdays every weekend but it still wouldnt make a better driver if the driver is taking completely the wrong lines through corners, braking mid corner etc.

[TU-Tuning]

good stuff, just make sure you get out on track as much as possible imo

there are loads of people that get caught up in buying the "right parts" for their "track car" for it to never see action... Just proves the ASW factor of saxp, where people would rather have stuff for bragging rights as opposed to it serving a purpose

having a fancy carbon roof, or a fancy throttleboddied engine doesnt mean a good driver in a pretty standard vts can't piss on you round a circuit.

Agree with this, although I have no issue with people who wish to do that as its all part of the modifying scene and always has been, people that make out theyre building a track car for track use and then dont drive it hard need a slap.

Additionally Ive felt for a long time that the track day scene is glamourised on these clubs. Yes track days are awesome, a great test of the car and the driver but theyre also very expensive especially for the average Saxo owner. Theres nothing wrong with taking advantage of the awesome B roads we have.

In terms of suspension setups, Id agree with the Keep It Simple Stupid philosophy, and with the advice above concerning B8s/Faulkners.

[jsdvtr]

Well i was going to get group n's as would prefer to not have to buy again in the future tbh.

I think i will be buying solid top mounts next month.

[jsdvtr]

You'll have a pretty good base for which to start then :y:

If you're serious about improving your driving and getting a bit quicker round track you'd probably be best doing a couple of days to get a feel for it and grabbing any advice you can from people who have done it for years. Maybe even grab a couple of professional tuition lessons if you're really keen.

Someone could do trackdays every weekend but it still wouldnt make a better driver if the driver is taking completely the wrong lines through corners, braking mid corner etc.

A mate of mine who does track days regularly (in his 360bhp del sol lol) told me to try get some tuition on my 1st time as he said i'll pick up my own lines, etc myself quite soon. I am looking forward to getting the car out on track and then car see what i need to improve on the car.

[Mochachino]

I am looking forward to getting the car out on track and then car see what i need to improve on the car.

Jobs a goodun.

[jsdvtr]

Jobs a goodun.

Just a few things to do before hand like tires, better pads on front and few other bits. :y:

[Mochachino]

Just a few things to do before hand like tires, better pads on front and few other bits. :y:

Yarr, get bushes n mounts done (think you already done them cant rmember now)

Tyres and brakes then fiddle with your springs and dampers etc :)

[jsdvtr]

Yarr, get bushes n mounts done (think you already done them cant rmember now)

Tyres and brakes then fiddle with your springs and dampers etc :)

Got the front bushes, just need to fit. Do you know if powerflex arb 106/ax bushes are same as saxo??
Get rears when get new beam.

I may upgrade dampers and springs before buying cams, bodies. Get the suspension setup bang on then look at more power.

What sort of spring rates should i go for? And maybe look at upgrading bars at rear while im getting a new beam.

[Mochachino]

Poeple say they 106 ones dont fit Saxo, but some 106's have the same size ARB as saxo's. They do change though between models and years etc.

Powers nothing without control.

Thats why you should get some dampers which are capable of a range of lbs, couse you dont know how your gonna want it and you dont wanna be buying and selling dampers. Id start at 160ish and work your way up depending what dampers you get. Poeple say high lb springs are uncomfortable and nasty for road use, but i find mine fine. Saying that though, the ride quality and general feel was quite different with inverted bilsteins with 275lb springs and pugsport tarmac dampers and 275lbs springs. The inverted billies were horrible and really uncomfortable where as the pugsports feel alot better damped and more comfortable. Ive been using mine quite abit and I reckon it would be fine as a daily drive tbh, dosent get on my tits at all.

You could get B8s and be happy with them and not feel the advantage of grpns. So Grpns could be wasted money, or the other way round. Get in some cars that have different setups n see how they feel.

Got to experiment..

[jsdvtr]

Poeple say they 106 ones dont fit Saxo, but some 106's have the same size ARB as saxo's. They do change though between models and years etc.

Powers nothing without control.

Thats why you should get some dampers which are capable of a range of lbs, couse you dont know how your gonna want it and you dont wanna be buying and selling dampers. Id start at 160ish and work your way up depending what dampers you get. Poeple say high lb springs are uncomfortable and nasty for road use, but i find mine fine. Saying that though, the ride quality and general feel was quite different with inverted bilsteins with 275lb springs and pugsport tarmac dampers and 275lbs springs. The inverted billies were horrible and really uncomfortable where as the pugsports feel alot better damped and more comfortable. Ive been using mine quite abit and I reckon it would be fine as a daily drive tbh, dosent get on my tits at all.

You could get B8s and be happy with them and not feel the advantage of grpns. So Grpns could be wasted money, or the other way round. Get in some cars that have different setups n see how they feel.

Got to experiment..

Do you how much difference between b8 and group ns?? Well car wont be a daily forever and im not building it to be one lol so im not to bothered about harshness tbh. Just a good allround weekend/ track car but with a good spec.

[Mochachino]

Well depends what springs and personal preference mate. You could take a standard car on track, loads of poeple do and theyre happy with it, poeple might prefer that to a car with different dampers etc. Youve got to find out for yourself mate, loads of road going cars all have the same setup and poeple are happy with it couse theyre just rolling around, cars on the track have different setups like theyre aint a 'standard spec' sorta thing couse poeple prefer different setups, youve just got to get out there and experiment mate, you probably wont decide on a setup and be happy with it, in fact i can gurantee it lol, so there aint too much point in looking for the best track setup...you should be looking at compatabilities between dampers and springs and feel the car with that..

all imo, so if the poeple with strong feelings want to contest then feel free couse its my opinion and how id go about it... my lil disclaimer :p

[jsdvtr]

Well depends what springs and personal preference mate. You could take a standard car on track, loads of poeple do and theyre happy with it, poeple might prefer that to a car with different dampers etc. Youve got to find out for yourself mate, loads of road going cars all have the same setup and poeple are happy with it couse theyre just rolling around, cars on the track have different setups like theyre aint a 'standard spec' sorta thing couse poeple prefer different setups, youve just got to get out there and experiment mate, you probably wont decide on a setup and be happy with it, in fact i can gurantee it lol, so there aint too much point in looking for the best track setup...you should be looking at compatabilities between dampers and springs and feel the car with that..

all imo, so if the poeple with strong feelings want to contest then feel free couse its my opinion and how id go about it... my lil disclaimer :p

Well i like my apex dampers i have atm as there good ride comfort and dont bang and crash when hit a bump but maybe some stiffer springs but i dont know how they would be on track......

[Mochachino]

Only one way to find out :p

[jsdvtr]

http://www.constella.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.product_details&category_id=13&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=38&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=28&vmcchk=1&Itemid=28

Can you get these for saxos, im sure ive seen people buy them. They look to be a good upgrade tbh.

[Mochachino]

You can get the ones for S1600s but theyre like 1k each.

Normal wishbones are adequate enough.

[raunchz]

http://www.constella.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.product_details&category_id=13&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=38&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=28&vmcchk=1&Itemid=28

Can you get these for saxos, im sure ive seen people buy them. They look to be a good upgrade tbh.

Not really off the shelf items - there are a few companies that make them, but you really wouldn't want to run open rosejoints on a road car.

[Mochachino]

2,350 euros:

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/dan_sax/kit_promo_train_av-ar-1.jpg

or

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/dan_sax/dsc01366_1.jpg

[Saaamon]

http://www.constella.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.product_details&category_id=13&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=38&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=28&vmcchk=1&Itemid=28

Can you get these for saxos, im sure ive seen people buy them. They look to be a good upgrade tbh.

Just get your car out on track fella, track driving is a world away from fast road driving. No matter how well spec'd your car is ulimately its only as good as the driver and even in a standard VTS you'll be the weaklink. Just make your car reliable, decent brake fluid etc thats all you need and if you do that you'll get far more out of a day because you'll be able to stay out all day instead having to let your car cool down every 5laps.

Please don't think i'm being harsh, just trying to help. You don't want to be one of these knobs turning up on track with carbon roofs etc that can't manage to hold the line.

[jsdvtr]

Just get your car out on track fella, track driving is a world away from fast road driving. No matter how well spec'd your car is ulimately its only as good as the driver and even in a standard VTS you'll be the weaklink. Just make your car reliable, decent brake fluid etc thats all you need and if you do that you'll get far more out of a day because you'll be able to stay out all day instead having to let your car cool down every 5laps.

Please don't think i'm being harsh, just trying to help. You don't want to be one of these knobs turning up on track with carbon roofs etc that can't manage to hold the line.

Im glad to get as much info as pos tbh, just want a good sus set up as i feel my apex kit is abit to soft but will be changing suspension parts for brand new stuff with o.e. and uprated parts.

[jsdvtr]

This is the setup ive been thinking about-

Billie group ns F+R
200-250lb springs (maybe custom collies)
21mm rear bars
Polyrace front wishbone bushes
New o.e. rear front bushes or spoox solid
Powerflex arb bushes front
Polyrace rear beam bushes

[Mochachino]

Sounds good, start at 200lb then work your way up, itll be hell driving a car thats too hard but not so bad on a soft one.

[Steve]

i personally couldnt go any harder tahn 200lb on the road. Got sick of it in the end, hence why i sold up.

Awesome on track, but i had to use my car day in and out for normal use.

[Hewitt20]

not THAT constructive a post but..

to the OP.. have you even been on track yet? if not, which seems that way, you haven't listened to a word anyone has said in this thread, you're still pulling suspension specs out even though you've been told to get on track first.

also db_sax, how are those pugsport group n's going?

[Mochachino]

also db_sax, how are those pugsport group n's going?

Doing alright mate, got too short a spring on at the moment which is 275lb but going to get some 325lb springs soon! The ride quality of them is so much better than the everyday bilsteins imo. Glad i got some :)

[Saaamon]

not THAT constructive a post but..

to the OP.. have you even been on track yet? if not, which seems that way, you haven't listened to a word anyone has said in this thread, you're still pulling suspension specs out even though you've been told to get on track first.


:y: Exactly!

This is the setup ive been thinking about-

Billie group ns F+R
200-250lb springs (maybe custom collies)
21mm rear bars
Polyrace front wishbone bushes
New o.e. rear front bushes or spoox solid
Powerflex arb bushes front
Polyrace rear beam bushes

Honestly you don't need all that stuff and 200lb+ springs are too much for road use hense you you'll only be able to practise on track.
Put bluntly you'd have your arse handed to you with someone at the wheel of a standard VTS who has had tution compared to first timer with your spec/wishlist having had no tution.

[KamRacing]

If the car is going to be properly used on track there is no harm in preparing the car to do the job. Its not necessary but it will improve the cars stabilty. I've taken standard cars but found it very easy to find their limits although it was lots of fun.

Kev

[jsdvtr]

I just feel the apex kit isnt upto the job now and want something stiffer now. Will be getting group ns soon though and may get the normal faulkner springs to match.

[Saaamon]

If the car is going to be properly used on track there is no harm in preparing the car to do the job. Its not necessary but it will improve the cars stabilty. I've taken standard cars but found it very easy to find their limits although it was lots of fun.

Kev

Agreed, but a top spec car isn't going to make a novice a good driver.

[jsdvtr]

What does the pugdport group n dampers and ast setup compare to the billie group n dampers?? Was looking at billies but not sure if its worth trying to get hold of a second hand set of ast's but also heard the pugsports are better than the billies. If had cash id go with the asts as seem to be top choice. Be looking at 21mm bars maybe 22mm as think 23mm would maybe be abit too hardcore although i like hardcore ha. Going to start saving after ive bought a new beam though.

[Mochachino]

imo pugsports are alot better than the Bilstein GrpN Blue capped dampers, they came accros quite harsh if you ask me. The pugsports seem alot smoother damping. Not used or experienced blackcaps so cant comment.

ASTs also seem pretty good, only been in a car with 180lb springs and stock hatch dampers, but the rear wasnt setup right.

Dont really need anything more than 21mm bars imo, but again thats another personal preference thing i guess.

[Saaamon]

Hows your car coming along? Done any trackdays yet? I'm going snetterton next week if your up for a drive round the track.

[jsdvtr]

Im looking at getting some billie group n's soon, not sure on what springs to for yet though. Also needing a new beam too which wish could use the money for that to buy the suspension.