British Schools Islamic Rules

[Heliosphan]

Further to the 30 or so muslims burning poppies the other week, British Schools Islamic Rules was the title of Panorama the other night.

If you didn't see it, the program talked about over 40 Saudi Islamic "week-end schools" that teach thousands British muslim kids every week from ages as young as 6. The schools basically teach the hardline principles of Wahhabism which is the dominant interpretation of Islam in the Arabian peninsula and namely Saudi Arabia. In fact, the books that are used in the schools form part of the Saudi school curriculum. Interestingly, it was also reported that these schools are on the increase as is the demand for them.

Kids are taught that thiefs should be punished by the chopping off of hands and then feet if it's a second offence. That the punishment for homosexuality is death, that women shouldn't go out unless with a male relative, that jewish people are monkeys and that non-muslims will burn in "hell-fire". Amongst other aspects of it's teachings are a ban on music, art, the study of certain subjects and other things that we take for granted in the UK. Bear in mind that this is the school curriculum in Saudi. A country with a huge influence in the world of Islam.

How ironic that our soldiers are dying out in Afghanistan in a bid to thwart terrorism yet schools like this are allowed to peddle hatred, segregation and other filth on UK soil. Schools like this should be closed and the people runing them deported/arrested.

Thoughts?

[Dazed]

Uh oh......

[Tom]

Inb4shitstorm.

[MiniGibbo]

Here we go again :wacko:

[bide_furio]

fair point!

[Cammy]

I read it all, and tbh, after in 50, im going on a muslum rampage with a hammer and doing a steven segal from killswitch with my hammer.

[C4_Lew]

to be fair i agree with the bit about thieves and jewish people

[Moke]

This thread can only turn bad, but oh well...

Tbh if they want to come to England and I say "they" because there are many religions out there and to be frank, I cannot be fucked typing them all out; then they should follow our rules.

Simple as that.

[bide_furio]

This thread can only turn bad, but oh well...

Tbh if they want to come to England and I say "they" because there are many religions out there and to be frank, I cannot be fucked typing them all out; then they should follow our rules.

Simple as that.

this tbh





seems where sendin our forces out to some of there countries and blowing shit up and doing no damage really, but there just walking into our country and slowly taking it over!

[adamm]

oh ffs i fucking hate this bullshit country!

[Mike_08]

http://actuallyawesome.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/achmed_the_dead_terrorist_by_kalesta.jpg

[saxowebby]

some of there rules would be great over here.

eye for an eye is great
except death for gay thats harsh
non muslims should burn thats a no

[_-john-_]

Wow, ok well there's a few things you need to consider here: Panorama or not, sensationalism is rife in British media, as it is anywhere in the world. The children may well be taught that those rules are fine and well in places like Saudi Arabia and surrounding Islamic states, but the UK has it's own judicial system and that will never change, so it's irrelevant, you could argue it's teaching the children to hate homosexuals and such, but then how is that any worse than some short back and sides sporting moron down the pub shouting anti-gay stuff at a whim? Finally, and I know this may ruffle a few feathers so I apologise in advance and stress that this is just an opinion based on historical facts, but to say 'our rules' is a bit wide of the mark, we're a country that's ALWAYS been multicultural from the very beginning, we have no solid indigenous people in the UK, it's been attacked by, invaded by and occupied by and been importing various races and nationalities from the get go. The laws of the country are a result of that, if Islam, along with any other race or religion wants to teach ITS beliefs over here, they have the right to do so, just as people have the right to protest against it. As long as both are done within the confines of the law and the rights of Humans as an entirety, then it's all good, that's a freedom we're incredibly lucky to have bestowed upon us.

[NickJ]

Religion should be banned, it causes nothing but trouble

I sincerely hope I'm dead and buried the day the UK finds itself a Muslim majority nation

Agree with Mike, if you move to the UK you should accept and adopt our traditional ways of living, learn the language, contribute towards tax and NI and not impose your religion upon us

Selfish / arrogant / racist view? So be it

[chunkyblader]

give those kids time to grow up and were serioulsy fooked, muslims takin crimes into there own habds because they don't agree with our ways of a fair trial and so on. maybe abit extreme. but civil war here in about 100 years.

[carlf1986]

They should all fuck off back to their own country the dirty smelly twats

[_-john-_]

give those kids time to grow up and were serioulsy fooked, muslims takin crimes into there own habds because they don't agree with our ways of a fair trial and so on. maybe abit extreme. but civil war here in about 100 years.

:wacko: Literally don't know why anyone even begins to think this, is here'say and sensationalism in the red spreads so bad that this is the way of thinking these days? If anyone thinks that 'Muslims taking laws into their own hands' is any different to the skin heads of the 70's through to now brandishing their own form of justice, then we're fucked as a nation. Hate breeds hate, only understanding and working together will work, Muslims have been here for an epic long time and will be till the end of times, it's that simple. Nothings going to change, they're not the Hitlet youth....

[Pieface]

Isn't that basically the same stuff Catholic Sunday schools teach? Eye for an Eye, no gays, anyone who disagrees with their religion will go to hell.

Remember being gay was illegal in this country last century...

[_-john-_]

Isn't that basically the same stuff Catholic Sunday schools teach? Eye for an Eye, no gays, anyone who disagrees with their religion will go to hell.

Remember being gay was illegal in this country last century...

Bingo. Ironic how a lack of education to our own, far far FAR from squeeky clean history, can make us judge people who're doing more watered down versions of our own mistakes from not so long ago.

[Bound]

Saudi Arabia is fucked up, I've said that for years though.

[_-john-_]

How many times have you been over there, out of interest?

[Bound]

How many times have you been over there, out of interest?

That's an interesting question _-john-_ and I thank you for asking it, the answer is many.

[_-john-_]

Ok cool, what makes it fucked up?

[NickJ]

Bingo. Ironic how a lack of education to our own, far far FAR from squeeky clean history, can make us judge people who're doing more watered down versions of our own mistakes from not so long ago.

Would you not agree that Islam has much more strict / aggressive views than Christianity?

Does Islam not preach followers to hate non-Muslims, and states that we're all going to hell?

When I did Religious Education at school, I was taught about the meaning behind Christmas and Easter, the 10 commandments etc

I wasn't taught to hate anyone or I wasn't taught rules that go against law

[Bound]

Ok cool, what makes it fucked up?

I am to tired to argue so i will be brief.

- Sharia law
-The Islamic STATE condemns homosexuals to death as they are wrong
- Women do not have equal rights, and are treated as inferior and subservient to males/their husbands
- Women must be with a male relative and can't go out on their own, they are second class citizens
- They still stone people to death
- Adultery is a crime punishable by death penalty
- Women are much more readily convicted of Adultery offences than men
- They 'culturally' push the Burka on women. But I mean, it's "their choice" right?
- They cut off (read as dismember, disfigure, mutilate) thieves by amputating their arms. mhmm, friendly.

There are many, many more, i will let you ponder them for now.

[J222JRA]

Here we go again :wacko:

Agreed.

[JamesR]

Everytime i read one of these threads, it makes me more and more annoyed. Some of their beliefs and laws/rules etc are disgusting, vile and pre-historic.

[Rudpud]

And the world wonders why people become racist
Im sure this is racist to someone...

I dont agree with muslim rules at all. But teaching that to kids in a country such as ours, is even worse. As someone stated, even tho we are a multinational country, we have our traditions and ways of living. They should respect that.

Aren't muslim women still invovled with arranged marriages too?

Hey, who wants to come to Saudi Arabia and help me teach christianity?

[_-john-_]

Would you not agree that Islam has much more strict / aggressive views than Christianity?

Nope, all you need to do is look at bible belt America, it's far FAR worse, but like any other religion, it has it's good and bad followers.

Does Islam not preach followers to hate non-Muslims, and states that we're all going to hell?

In small pockets yeah, the Koran is written in a form of ancient Arabic that is open to personal translation and understanding, just like the Bible.

When I did Religious Education at school, I was taught about the meaning behind Christmas and Easter, the 10 commandments etc

I wasn't taught to hate anyone or I wasn't taught rules that go against law

And I'm sure these kids are being taught balanced beliefs while at normal school, not everyone in the world, including Islam, is far right wing in their beliefs and teaching, and giving more credit to the intelligence these children will develop that will allow them to form their own opinions, no matter the teaching, will make a difference long run. Islam is a very peaceful religion, the media hysteria behind 9/11, the London bombings and such, will obviously tell people otherwise, but it's not the crusades or the British Empire (based on the beliefs taught by the COE) is it?

The thing people need to realise is that while in the medias eye, anything can and will be twisted to whatever they want it to be, and hysteria and fear sells by the bucketload, simple as that. Spending a short while reading balanced arguments will open peoples eyes to the reality behind the headlines. I'm sure you know some Muslims, we all do, would you say they're after cutting your feet off and stapling them to your forehead and burning you for not being into their religion then calling you a puff and finishing you off? Pretty sure it's safe to say they aren't, 99.99% never would in fact, the media focuses on the miniscule percentage of right wing ones.

They're the same people as those who run, support and fund the BNP and EDL, badly educated, brain washed, disenchanted, disillusioned soulds who simply need educating. The only difference is the flag they fly in the name of religion and race.

[_-john-_]

I am to tired to argue so i will be brief.

- Sharia law
-The Islamic STATE condemns homosexuals to death as they are wrong
- Women do not have equal rights, and are treated as inferior and subservient to males/their husbands
- Women must be with a male relative and can't go out on their own, they are second class citizens
- They still stone people to death
- Adultery is a crime punishable by death penalty
- Women are much more readily convicted of Adultery offences than men
- They 'culturally' push the Burka on women. But I mean, it's "their choice" right?

There are many, many more, i will let you ponder them for now.

Again, all secular things. Just like Catholics won't allow their children to hang out with protestants, just like how right wing christians will go to the funerals of american soldiers and protest about how they died of gods will because america is a 'fag supporting' nation.

Your arguments are tired and pointless, sorry to seem offensive about it, but you could write off any religion with things like that, it's all one in the same. Every basket has it's bad eggs.

[Bound]

Again, all secular things. Just like Catholics won't allow their children to hang out with protestants, just like how right wing christians will go to the funerals of american soldiers and protest about how they died of gods will because america is a 'fag supporting' nation.

Your arguments are tired and pointless, sorry to seem offensive about it, but you could write off any religion with things like that, it's all one in the same. Every basket has it's bad eggs.

No, I'm tired (but you don't get credit for that because I said it myself in a few posts back), not my arguments, and sorry, how are those things even slightly related, we're talking about an Islamic state that governs under sharia law, that's what you wanted to know. You didn't ask me about Islam, you asked me about Saudi Arabia. These aren't secular things, these are irrefutable facts.

[Heliosphan]

Isn't that basically the same stuff Catholic Sunday schools teach? Eye for an Eye, no gays, anyone who disagrees with their religion will go to hell.

Remember being gay was illegal in this country last century...

I read this and laughed actually.

:wacko: Literally don't know why anyone even begins to think this, is here'say and sensationalism in the red spreads so bad that this is the way of thinking these days? If anyone thinks that 'Muslims taking laws into their own hands' is any different to the skin heads of the 70's through to now brandishing their own form of justice, then we're fucked as a nation. Hate breeds hate, only understanding and working together will work, Muslims have been here for an epic long time and will be till the end of times, it's that simple. Nothings going to change, they're not the Hitlet youth....

Oh please.

Can you tell me what similarities 1970s skinheads have to the vile rhetoric being taught in these schools?

Also, you talk about hate - what on earth do you think these schools are teaching kids? Anti-semitism, homophobia, bigotry and intolerance that's what.

Nope, all you need to do is look at bible belt America, it's far FAR worse, but like any other religion, it has it's good and bad followers

We're not talking about America - we're talking about the filth being preached to British school-kids.


And I'm sure these kids are being taught balanced beliefs while at normal school, not everyone in the world, including Islam, is far right wing in their beliefs and teaching, and giving more credit to the intelligence these children will develop that will allow them to form their own opinions, no matter the teaching, will make a difference long run. Islam is a very peaceful religion, the media hysteria behind 9/11, the London bombings and such, will obviously tell people otherwise, but it's not the crusades or the British Empire (based on the beliefs taught by the COE) is it?

So your justification for these schools hinges on the fact that you're sure they're being taught balanced beliefs at "normal" school (let's hope so eh!) and the fact that these children will develop their own opinions.

What is school for? What is it meant to do? It's meant to prepare kids / young people for life.

Tell me how you think these schools are preparing these kids for life in 2010 Britain.

The thing people need to realise is that while in the medias eye, anything can and will be twisted to whatever they want it to be, and hysteria and fear sells by the bucketload, simple as that.

So you're saying that the investigation was an exercise in demonisation and ultimately a load of nonsense.

Perhaps the books that were referred to were all made up too.

[23carragold]

Isn't that basically the same stuff Catholic Sunday schools teach? Eye for an Eye, no gays, anyone who disagrees with their religion will go to hell.

Remember being gay was illegal in this country last century...

Exactly. The spotlight is on Islam..albeit a radical sect that tarnishes the good nature of normal Muslims. It's funny how the harsh language that the Bible talks about is ignored. Other people say that Christianity doesn't teach bad things etc. Yes, yes it does. It still has references that tell that some people should be stoned or put to death. So to those people who say that Christianity doesn't preach bad things etc..the Bible is open to incorrect interpretation THE EXACT same way that the Quran or Torah is.

They should all fuck off back to their own country the dirty smelly twats

Shut the fuck up you ignorant, thick retard. Your input is a fucking disgrace.

Bingo. Ironic how a lack of education to our own, far far FAR from squeeky clean history, can make us judge people who're doing more watered down versions of our own mistakes from not so long ago.


Thankyou. Someone with sense, and logic who understands that not every single thing we read/see in the media is true. Hyping up the retards who interpret Islam incorrectly and trying to tarnish the whole of Islam at the same time is fucking stupid. The 3 main Holy Books all contain very similar things that are open to interpretation, lest we forget.

[Moke]

Shut the fuck up you ignorant, thick retard. Your input is a fucking disgrace.


+1

CarlF, you fucking racist.

Just you say that in front of these "I won't repeat what you just said" and watch them kick the fuck out of you.

Urgh, this thread is for discussion, not racism.

[_-john-_]

No, I'm tired (but you don't get credit for that because I said it myself in a few posts back), not my arguments, and sorry, how are those things even slightly related, we're talking about an Islamic state that governs under sharia law, that's what you wanted to know. You didn't ask me about Islam, you asked me about Saudi Arabia. These aren't secular things, these are irrefutable facts.

They are secular instances, Saudi Arabia in a single Islamic state, it doesn't hold the torch for all 2 billion Muslims around the World. You said it's a fucked up place, based on those things you pointed out, so I mentioned parts of Ireland, America, the UK, France, Germany, in fact just about every country, can be held accountable for seperating rights of humans as a whole into smaller pockets of the countries favoured people. Or just having social communities that seperate themselves from the greater public and have their own in house justice systems. What's pretty pathetic about this whole thing is that the religions just used as an excuse to hate, and when did hate get anyone anywhere? The original post mentioned that an entire episode of Panorama was dedicated to the schools in question and that it's bad enough that poppies were burned, 30 people out of a good few million isn't really a good way to judge an entire belief system, is it?

[Heliosphan]

Again, all secular things. Just like Catholics won't allow their children to hang out with protestants, just like how right wing christians will go to the funerals of american soldiers and protest about how they died of gods will because america is a 'fag supporting' nation.

Your arguments are tired and pointless, sorry to seem offensive about it, but you could write off any religion with things like that, it's all one in the same. Every basket has it's bad eggs.

How on earth are the things that Bound quotes secular things? These are all religious or cultural ethics, nothing to do with secularism.

[Bound]

it's bad enough that poppies were burned, 30 people out of a good few million isn't really a good way to judge an entire belief system, is it?

You see, there I was arguing for Islam, I always have a balanced argument. No point in arguing otherwise, here's my actual quote from the thread (http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=346604) (lot of good bigotry and idiocy in there to get your teeth into as well if you feel like it :P);

It's SUCH a shame the tiny minority encourage prejudice, this is what makes the uneducated hate all Muslims, even though the huge majority are absolutely fine, it's these brainwashed disrespectful cunts, they have a right to protest, they have a right to be abused.

Burning poppies is fucking outrageous symbolism, absolute cunts, coward bastards supporting the bombing off innocent civilians, it's not even the same war they are protesting against, they just WANT the outrage and the hate, they want anarchy, all they are is attention seeking hate spreaders.

It's not just their right to protest, it's disrespect and provocative, exactly what they want.

Just so we can get it out of the way quickly;

9/11 - Conspiracy?
Moon landings - Conspiracy?

Thanks.

[M1VT]

I have a solution
http://notadarkcorner.com/img/links-parties/bnp_logo.jpg

*stands back to watch the fireworks*

[Heliosphan]

They are secular instances, Saudi Arabia in a single Islamic state, it doesn't hold the torch for all 2 billion Muslims around the World. You said it's a fucked up place, based on those things you pointed out, so I mentioned parts of Ireland, America, the UK, France, Germany, in fact just about every country, can be held accountable for seperating rights of humans as a whole into smaller pockets of the countries favoured people. Or just having social communities that seperate themselves from the greater public and have their own in house justice systems. What's pretty pathetic about this whole thing is that the religions just used as an excuse to hate, and when did hate get anyone anywhere? The original post mentioned that an entire episode of Panorama was dedicated to the schools in question and that it's bad enough that poppies were burned, 30 people out of a good few million isn't really a good way to judge an entire belief system, is it?

Nobody is saying that Saudi is representative of 2 billion muslims the world but it's influence in the world of Islam is without question. The two holiest cities in Islam are both there for a start, Mecca and Medina. Millions flock to Mecca every year. Makes a fantastic showcase for the barbaric form of Islamism practiced in te country wouldn't you say?

[_-john-_]

I read this and laughed actually.



Oh please.

Can you tell me what similarities 1970s skinheads have to the vile rhetoric being taught in these schools?

Also, you talk about hate - what on earth do you think these schools are teaching kids? Anti-semitism, homophobia, bigotry and intolerance that's what.



We're not talking about America - we're talking about the filth being preached to British school-kids.



So your justification for these schools hinges on the fact that you're sure they're being taught balanced beliefs at "normal" school (let's hope so eh!) and the fact that these children will develop their own opinions.

What is school for? What is it meant to do? It's meant to prepare kids / young people for life.

Tell me how you think these schools are preparing these kids for life in 2010 Britain.



So you're saying that the investigation was an exercise in demonisation and ultimately a load of nonsense.

Perhaps the books that were referred to were all made up too.

Yeah I can, just because children aren't being taught vile beliefs in the school, doesn't mean they aren't being taught it at home and as a course of inevitibility, in the playground and in other social areas that children will be together, the similarities between the skinheads and right wing muslims are just that, right wing beliefs, don't think the national front were in the habit of allowing gay, black, oriental, middle eastern or any other creed into their ranks were they? They regularly commited violent acts upon Asians and any others they took a disliking to, it was fucking worse. Preaching isn't practising, you say that school sets kids up for life? You taken everything you were taught at school, not questioned it and still act on what you were taught? If so, you're one of the EXTREME minority who have.

Sunday school teaches kids anti semitism, eye for an eye, anti homosexuality and everything else you've mentioned, as do most CofE schools that adhere to the Bible, but in a masked...round about way, again it's all one in the same, your arguments have no warrant for anything other than blowing apart.

I used America as an example that an entire region (bible belt...the ENTIRE south) can become polluted by the minorities belief, hate gets passed down the generations and spreads, if British citizens as a whole kept on reading the tabloids and sucking up every word they read, or forming their opinions on the cluelesness shown in threads such as this, then we'd end up burning all Muslims at the stake, remind you of any particular famous German facist and his regime? History speaks volumes and it's not country specific.

And no I'm not saying the programme was an exercise in demonisation, just another unbalanced review into the tiny, insignificant volumes of right wing Islamic teachings. You think that's any different to Dad telling son that 'Pakis can fuck off back home if they dont like it'?. Did the show stop to show the millions of Islamic children that DON'T go to these schools and DON'T get taught these right wing beliefs? I think not.

[_-john-_]

How on earth are the things that Bound quotes secular things? These are all religious or cultural ethics, nothing to do with secularism.

Secularism is the small part of the whole religious picture, perfectly fine word of choice to describe my point.

[piranhamatt]

so if i steal from a muslim in the uk, they can cut off my hand :s

[_-john-_]

Nobody is saying that Saudi is representative of 2 billion muslims the world but it's influence in the world of Islam is without question. The two holiest cities in Islam are both there for a start, Mecca and Medina. Millions flock to Mecca every year. Makes a fantastic showcase for the barbaric form of Islamism practiced in te country wouldn't you say?

Nope, two iconic points of religion being in one place doesn't mean that everyone who ventures there wants to adopt Sharia laws. It'd be like saying all the Christians who go to the tomb of Jesus will adopt whatever right wing belief system is championed in that area.

[Chris_O]

The original post mentioned that an entire episode of Panorama was dedicated to the schools in question and that it's bad enough that poppies were burned, 30 people out of a good few million isn't really a good way to judge an entire belief system, is it?

I'm not even going to reply to anything else you have written, as much as I would want to, but im very tired and can't be bothered.

I think i'm speaking for a lot of people on here when I say that the burning of the poppies incident made a lot of us very ashamed of our own government and law for just sitting and watching these 'people' carry on. And most proabably afterwards they all went back to their tax payer funded residence. That's what is messed up.

[_-john-_]

so if i steal from a muslim in the uk, they can cut off my hand :s

No, because you're in the UK. All they can do is report you to the popo. Won't ever EVER be any different, if they hack your hand off, they'll see the inside of a jail cell for many moons.

[Moke]

Tbh... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKLeSa177VM&feature=related

Arnez J <3

Watch 1:25 onwards...

[_-john-_]

I'm not even going to reply to anything else you have written, as much as I would want to, but im very tired and can't be bothered.

I think i'm speaking for a lot of people on here when I say that the burning of the poppies incident made a lot of us very ashamed of our own government and law for just sitting and watching these 'people' carry on. And most proabably afterwards they all went back to their tax payer funded residence. That's what is messed up.

Right of free expression though isn't it? As much as it made me sick to know it was watched and not stopped, it was done by THIRTY people, not every muslim every where. It also makes me sick that the BNP can march and shout 'paki's out', but the police don't stop that either.

[_-john-_]

And most proabably afterwards they all went back to their tax payer funded residence. That's what is messed up.

Oh and are you suggesting that only none Muslims contribute towards tax? Haha, this thread is fucking ridiculous.

[NickJ]

Exactly. The spotlight is on Islam..albeit a radical sect that tarnishes the good nature of normal Muslims. It's funny how the harsh language that the Bible talks about is ignored. Other people say that Christianity doesn't teach bad things etc. Yes, yes it does. It still has references that tell that some people should be stoned or put to death. So to those people who say that Christianity doesn't preach bad things etc..the Bible is open to incorrect interpretation THE EXACT same way that the Quran or Torah is.

I'm not saying the Bible isn't squeaky clean, I have never been religious so I don't know exactly what Christian's believe in etc, but my argument is that primary school children (aged 6) are not taught in schools to hate homosexuals and aren't force fed the bible, they are taught an understanding of why we celebrate Christmas and Easter

Panorama highlighted that primary school children are being taught the views of Islam, which like Christianity, are out of date and extreme, which I think is wrong

Religion should be followed through your own choice at a reasonable age, not force fed at aged 6

[Rudpud]

Lol at M1VT. It'll never happen tho..

At _-john-_ Dont go on like you aint racist.

[Bound]

What some of the sun readers in this thread will have you believe is that if you went to Saudi Arabia, you would not get away with committing a parallel act of outrage and disrespect suck as burning poppies in this Country, and they would be right, but that's not "the Muslims" fault, that's our own governments weakness.

At _-john-_ Dont go on like you aint racist.

Ahahahhah, that's gonna get him so good, wish I'd of though of that.

[_-john-_]

I agree that religion shouldn't be brought into anything educational, as it's not education it's belief. My point in arguing the toss out of this thread is that peoples band wagon, islam hating, racist as fuck views are just uneducated to the extreme. If I could vote religion out of schools, I would. But for people to say anything about Islam teaching fucked up stuff and nothing else does, is incredibly naive.

[_-john-_]

Lol at M1VT. It'll never happen tho..

At _-john-_ Dont go on like you aint racist.

I'm all for casual racism you jew nose

[M1VT]

Lol at M1VT. It'll never happen tho..

At _-john-_ Dont go on like you aint racist.

shame it wont tbh

what we need is another war with the germans,send the immigrants to the front line,then call it off

No brit gets hurt
sorted

[0rang3peel]

Wow, ok well there's a few things you need to consider here: Panorama or not, sensationalism is rife in British media, as it is anywhere in the world. The children may well be taught that those rules are fine and well in places like Saudi Arabia and surrounding Islamic states, but the UK has it's own judicial system and that will never change, so it's irrelevant, you could argue it's teaching the children to hate homosexuals and such, but then how is that any worse than some short back and sides sporting moron down the pub shouting anti-gay stuff at a whim? Finally, and I know this may ruffle a few feathers so I apologise in advance and stress that this is just an opinion based on historical facts, but to say 'our rules' is a bit wide of the mark, we're a country that's ALWAYS been multicultural from the very beginning, we have no solid indigenous people in the UK, it's been attacked by, invaded by and occupied by and been importing various races and nationalities from the get go. The laws of the country are a result of that, if Islam, along with any other race or religion wants to teach ITS beliefs over here, they have the right to do so, just as people have the right to protest against it. As long as both are done within the confines of the law and the rights of Humans as an entirety, then it's all good, that's a freedom we're incredibly lucky to have bestowed upon us.

What is this? someone displaying intelligence on this site, wow a time for firsts.

[JonCarter]

deport them especially after what they did. no respect for the hero's of OUR county

[23carragold]

I'm not saying the Bible isn't squeaky clean, I have never been religious so I don't know exactly what Christian's believe in etc, but my argument is that primary school children (aged 6) are not taught in schools to hate homosexuals and aren't force fed the bible, they are taught an understanding of why we celebrate Christmas and Easter

Panorama highlighted that primary school children are being taught the views of Islam, which like Christianity, are out of date and extreme, which I think is wrong

Religion should be followed through your own choice at a reasonable age, not force fed at aged 6

Panorama highlighted certain schools..not all of them teach this. I think it's more to do with culture clashing with Islam.

The cultures of various Islamic countries that tend to dislike the western world then infiltrates into religion, which taints what the true essence of Islam really is. That is a crucial problem that needs to be eradicated.

[_-john-_]

Panorama highlighted certain schools..not all of them teach this. I think it's more to do with culture clashing with Islam.

The cultures of various Islamic countries that tend to dislike the western world then infiltrates into religion, which taints what the true essence of Islam really is. That is a crucial problem that needs to be eradicated.

This.

People have a bad habit of using minor instances like this as an excuse to get badly racist and hateful towards something they truly don't understand. It's fucking shameful, far more shameful than a few poppies being burned.

[Heliosphan]

Yeah I can, just because children aren't being taught vile beliefs in the school, doesn't mean they aren't being taught it at home and as a course of inevitibility, in the playground and in other social areas that children will be together, the similarities between the skinheads and right wing muslims are just that, right wing beliefs, don't think the national front were in the habit of allowing gay, black, oriental, middle eastern or any other creed into their ranks were they? They regularly commited violent acts upon Asians and any others they took a disliking to, it was fucking worse

But skinheads or members of the NF didn't set up schools of hatred in the 1970s. Sure, they were right-wing hate groups but that's where the similarity ends. Kids as young as 6 years old attend these Saudi schools. Young impressionable minds being exposed to medieval, barbaric beliefs....and you're ok with that. I'm actually staggered.


Preaching isn't practising, you say that school sets kids up for life? You taken everything you were taught at school, not questioned it and still act on what you were taught? If so, you're one of the EXTREME minority who have

Again, you seem to be trying your best to justify this.

Schools educate. Teach values, ethics. They teach right from wrong and prepare you for life.

These schools hold no relevance in the UK, they should be outlawed.


Sunday school teaches kids anti semitism, eye for an eye, anti homosexuality and everything else you've mentioned, as do most CofE schools that adhere to the Bible, but in a masked...round about way, again it's all one in the same, your arguments have no warrant for anything other than blowing apart

What are you on?

Do they teach stoning to death for adultry, choping off limbs for theft, mysogyny and a general hatred of the Western values?


And no I'm not saying the programme was an exercise in demonisation, just another unbalanced review into the tiny, insignificant volumes of right wing Islamic teachings. You think that's any different to Dad telling son that 'Pakis can fuck off back home if they dont like it'?. Did the show stop to show the millions of Islamic children that DON'T go to these schools and DON'T get taught these right wing beliefs? I think not.

Had you watched the show you would have seen that it made a clear reference at the outset about the fact that 95% of muslim kids go to a non-Islamic school, ie not these schools.

The show was an investigation into Saudi Sunday schools and what British kids are being taught.

[_-john-_]

Cringe. Stopped reading that at 'youre ok with this'.

You're bad for twisting words, either that or you've got little to no intelligence to read something for what it is, anti-hate.

[Bound]

so if i steal from a muslim in the uk, they can cut off my hand :s

I'd cut my own hand off in advance. Then again, would make it harder to work my secret identity of violent religious metaphor man.

[Heliosphan]

Nope, two iconic points of religion being in one place doesn't mean that everyone who ventures there wants to adopt Sharia laws. It'd be like saying all the Christians who go to the tomb of Jesus will adopt whatever right wing belief system is championed in that area.

So the millions of pilgrims that flock to Mecca every year, the most holiest site in the whole of Islam holds no water? You're plain naeve.

I can tell you don't know what you're talking about with the analogy about Christianity. Islam is more than a religion, it a way of life, an ideology. 40% of muslims in the UK want to see some form of Sharia law introduced. Must be a very small amount indeed that go on Hajj and DON'T agree with Sharia law seeing as they're they because they see it as their religious duty!

You seem intent on arguing your own agenda instead of the actual topic of "hate schools".

[M1VT]

Muslims
Flock off to mecca and fucking stay there!

[Chris_O]

Right of free expression though isn't it? As much as it made me sick to know it was watched and not stopped, it was done by THIRTY people, not every muslim every where. It also makes me sick that the BNP can march and shout 'paki's out', but the police don't stop that either.


You make yourself out to be some sort of know it all, yet you are so thick you cannot even understand a simple sentance.

The whole reason behind me saying the majority of people on here were more ashamed of our government / laws for letting this carry on, was to make the point that we wern't tarring all muslim's with the same brush as a result of the event. Can you understand that? Or still a bit tricky?

Oh and are you suggesting that only none Muslims contribute towards tax? Haha, this thread is fucking ridiculous.

And please tell me where exactly I have suggested in any way that only non Muslims contribute towards tax? Tbh you come across as an utter retard. I know full well a lot of muslims have every right to reside in this country, and are part of society and therefore pay taxes just like everyone else.

The point I was making is that I find it exceptionally hard to believe that our government will use taxpayers money (including Muslim's (that better for you?)) to allow these 'people' to live in decent houses by all accounts in this country. Abu Hamza is another prime example.

Are you just assuming I am simply an outright racist? It certainly seems that way in your reply. The only thing in this thread that is fucking ridiculous is yourself my friend.

[Pieface]

So the millions of pilgrims that flock to Mecca every year, the most holiest site in the whole of Islam holds no water? You're plain naeve.

I can tell you don't know what you're talking about with the analogy about Christianity. Islam is more than a religion, it a way of life, an ideology. 40% of muslims in the UK want to see some form of Sharia law introduced. Must be a very small amount indeed that go on Hajj and DON'T agree with Sharia law seeing as they're they because they see it as their religious duty!

You seem intent on arguing your own agenda instead of the actual topic of "hate schools".

You seem to be just pure hatred of Muslims tbh. You say that we are taught what morals in our schools. Sorry, did you go to Sunday schools where they teach Christian ethics?

[Heliosphan]

Secularism is the small part of the whole religious picture, perfectly fine word of choice to describe my point.

What?????????

Here's what Wikipedia says about Secularism - it's roughly the opposite of what you described.

Shall I get your coat now..........?


Secularism is the concept that government or other entities should exist separately from religion and/or religious beliefs.

In one sense, secularism may assert the right to be free from religious rule and teachings, and the right to freedom from governmental imposition of religion upon the people within a state that is neutral on matters of belief. (See also Separation of church and state and Laïcité.) In another sense, it refers to the view that human activities and decisions, especially political ones, should be based on evidence and fact unbiased by religious influence.

[Heliosphan]

You seem to be just pure hatred of Muslims tbh. You say that we are taught what morals in our schools. Sorry, did you go to Sunday schools where they teach Christian ethics?

Shushhh.

Let the grown-ups have a debate....

[23carragold]

So the millions of pilgrims that flock to Mecca every year, the most holiest site in the whole of Islam holds no water? You're plain naeve.

I can tell you don't know what you're talking about with the analogy about Christianity. Islam is more than a religion, it a way of life, an ideology. 40% of muslims in the UK want to see some form of Sharia law introduced. Must be a very small amount indeed that go on Hajj and DON'T agree with Sharia law seeing as they're they because they see it as their religious duty!

You seem intent on arguing your own agenda instead of the actual topic of "hate schools".

Actually he has a point. You seem hell bent on just trying to bad mouth Islam it seems, all your previous threads seem to point in that direction.

Judaism and Christianity are more than just "religions"..they are also ways of life. It's incredibly astounding how you choose to gloss over this fact, yet try and make out Islam is something different to these two other main religions. Don't talk rubbish and try and tar Islam with complete and utter assumptions.

You really don't think that Christians or Jews want to see their own form of religious law being implememented in the UK? Exactly. You just don't know until they are asked. Yet, again, you would rather focus on Islam.

Muslims
Flock off to mecca and fucking stay there!

Not funny, fuck off if you're going to add uneducated and stupid comments.

[CHIP]

Ibtl :)

[Heliosphan]

Cringe. Stopped reading that at 'youre ok with this'.

You're bad for twisting words, either that or you've got little to no intelligence to read something for what it is, anti-hate.

The usual internet cop-out for "I don't know what to say next".

Come back soon :clapping:

[Rudpud]

Not funny, fuck off if you're going to add uneducated and stupid comments.

I laughed. His opinion, hes entitled to it.

[Pieface]

Shushhh.

Let the grown-ups have a debate....

Wow, that's pretty failtastic.

Firstly, as well. Please show me these figures on 40% of Muslims would like Sharia Law? What? Gonna pull out a Daily Fail, or Sun article I bet?

And I bet if you asked any practising Christian, or Jew, if you would like to follow their laws, most would say yes.. You seem to dismiss arguments pretty awfully, and it ruins your credibility. If you come up with any figures, or statements provide reliable facts on it please in the future.

[Heliosphan]

Wow, that's pretty failtastic.

Firstly, as well. Please show me these figures on 40% of Muslims would like Sharia Law? What? Gonna pull out a Daily Fail, or Sun article I bet?

And I bet if you asked any practising Christian, or Jew, if you would like to follow their laws, most would say yes.. You seem to dismiss arguments pretty awfully, and it ruins your credibility. If you come up with any figures, or statements provide reliable facts on it please in the future.

You assume way too much.

First of all, you'll note that I said "some form" of Sharia law. That isn't necessarily chopping off hands etc. That may simply mean the access to a religious Sharia law court or tribunal. Is this starting to make sense? Do you now see that 40% is perhaps realistic.

I could give you 3 independent surveys if you really wanted them, one of which was made across 20 university campuses (1000 students questioned), the other was made at a muslim protest against Geert Wilders coming to the UK and other was a completely random telephone survey made to a cross-section of muslims of varying age groups. All 3 came back at roughly 40%.

Tha Mail? The Sun?.........err no.

[Moke]

Carra, well done mate for standing your ground, but not getting all "Aly" about it ;)

All the racists, keep it to yourselves you bunch of moronic bastards.

[Heliosphan]

Actually he has a point. You seem hell bent on just trying to bad mouth Islam it seems, all your previous threads seem to point in that direction.

Judaism and Christianity are more than just "religions"..they are also ways of life. It's incredibly astounding how you choose to gloss over this fact, yet try and make out Islam is something different to these two other main religions. Don't talk rubbish and try and tar Islam with complete and utter assumptions.

You really don't think that Christians or Jews want to see their own form of religious law being implememented in the UK? Exactly. You just don't know until they are asked. Yet, again, you would rather focus on Islam.

Jews already have Beth Din religious law courts, I don't agree with those either. If you live in the UK, then it should be one law for all. Otherwise, you end up with inconsistency and the undermining of UK law - whether it takes prescedence of not.

Sharia law courts should never have been allowed to exist in the UK, otherwise where does it end?

[Pieface]

You assume way too much.

First of all, you'll note that I said "some form" of Sharia law. That isn't necessarily chopping off hands etc. That may simply mean the access to a religious Sharia law court or tribunal. Is this starting to make sense? Do you now see that 40% is perhaps realistic.

I could give you 3 independent surveys if you really wanted them, one of which was made across 20 university campuses (1000 students questioned), the other was made at a muslim protest against Geert Wilders coming to the UK and other was a completely random telephone survey made to a cross-section of muslims of varying age groups. All 3 came back at roughly 40%.

Tha Mail? The Sun?.........err no.

So really, you using that figure meant fuck all. Everyone wants laws that benefit them, don't they? People want to have their beliefs taken into consideration, Christians, Jews, Buddhists etc. You're just trying to use statistics that have no relevance in this topic, isn't different to any other religion and is just irrelevant to try and make you seem to have some form of credibility in the argument.

[Heliosphan]

So really, you using that figure meant fuck all. Everyone wants laws that benefit them, don't they? People want to have their beliefs taken into consideration, Christians, Jews, Buddhists etc. You're just trying to use statistics that have no relevance in this topic, isn't different to any other religion and is just irrelevant to try and make you seem to have some form of credibility in the argument.

We should have one set of laws in this country.

Law should be consistent and fair to all citizens. As soon as you start allowing religious law courts to gain a foothold then you get decisions which are potentially contrary to the core values of this country, like fairness and equality.

The Imams that run the Sharia courts tend to be self-appointed. You're comfortable about a self appointed Imam dispensing his own form of sharia justice are you?

By the way, you're a fine one to talk about keeping on topic. All you seem to talk about in these debates are the failings of Christianity.

[Pieface]

We should have one law in this country.

Law should be consistent and fair to all citizens. As soon as you start allowing religious law courts to gain a foothold then you get decisions which are potentially contrary to the core values of this country, like fairness and equality.

The Imams that run the Sharia courts tend to be self-appointed. You're comfortable about a self appointed Imam dispensing his own form of sharia justice are you?

You mean, like the fact we're still going off laws based on Christian beliefs? As I said being gay was still illegal just last century. You seem to be ignoring the complete fact that there are other religions out there really. In fact the only religion you really mention is Islam in this thread. And as you say, some form of Sharia law doesn't mean complete Sharia courts. You seem to be disillusioned to the fact that they way countries are run in other countries where there laws are all based on Islam, it will turn exactly the same over here.

Grow up and smell the roses. Islam is no different to any other religion. Christianity has had many extremeists, Crusades ring a bell? Or even the IRA? I mean the IRA wasn't that long ago when it was in full force. Stop reading into the bullcrap the media send to you and get out there and meet actual Muslims. Maybe you'll realise they're no different than you! Shock horror.

[_-john-_]

So the millions of pilgrims that flock to Mecca every year, the most holiest site in the whole of Islam holds no water? You're plain naeve.

I can tell you don't know what you're talking about with the analogy about Christianity. Islam is more than a religion, it a way of life, an ideology. 40% of muslims in the UK want to see some form of Sharia law introduced. Must be a very small amount indeed that go on Hajj and DON'T agree with Sharia law seeing as they're they because they see it as their religious duty!

You seem intent on arguing your own agenda instead of the actual topic of "hate schools".

Bad bad idiocy, this. Only Islam is more than a religion? Fucking pathetic.

You make yourself out to be some sort of know it all, yet you are so thick you cannot even understand a simple sentance.

The whole reason behind me saying the majority of people on here were more ashamed of our government / laws for letting this carry on, was to make the point that we wern't tarring all muslim's with the same brush as a result of the event. Can you understand that? Or still a bit tricky?



And please tell me where exactly I have suggested in any way that only non Muslims contribute towards tax? Tbh you come across as an utter retard. I know full well a lot of muslims have every right to reside in this country, and are part of society and therefore pay taxes just like everyone else.

The point I was making is that I find it exceptionally hard to believe that our government will use taxpayers money (including Muslim's (that better for you?)) to allow these 'people' to live in decent houses by all accounts in this country. Abu Hamza is another prime example.

Are you just assuming I am simply an outright racist? It certainly seems that way in your reply. The only thing in this thread that is fucking ridiculous is yourself my friend.

Everything you said contributed to my decision that you're simply a bigot, don't forget, we've invaded a country, to fight for something, the fact we're in their country and KILLING people is enough right for them to burn poppies in retaliation to that, open your eyes sunshine.

What?????????

Here's what Wikipedia says about Secularism - it's roughly the opposite of what you described.

Shall I get your coat now..........?


Secularism is the concept that government or other entities should exist separately from religion and/or religious beliefs.

In one sense, secularism may assert the right to be free from religious rule and teachings, and the right to freedom from governmental imposition of religion upon the people within a state that is neutral on matters of belief. (See also Separation of church and state and Laïcité.) In another sense, it refers to the view that human activities and decisions, especially political ones, should be based on evidence and fact unbiased by religious influence.

Secular can also mean a singular instance, occurring or observed once, well done on citing wikipedia though, the uneditable fountain of knowledge.

[Heliosphan]

You mean, like the fact we're still going off laws based on Christian beliefs? As I said being gay was still illegal just last century. You seem to be ignoring the complete fact that there are other religions out there really. In fact the only religion you really mention is Islam in this thread. And as you say, some form of Sharia law doesn't mean complete Sharia courts. You seem to be disillusioned to the fact that they way countries are run in other countries where there laws are all based on Islam, it will turn exactly the same over here .

The point I was making has gone so far over your head it's unbelievable.

You see nothing remotely wrong about inconsistencies in law? As in, the fundamentals of decision making based on fairness and equality - the things on which our society is built? You're happy for the potential of mysogynistic Imams making judgements against women etc?

Grow up and smell the roses. Islam is no different to any other religion. Christianity has had many extremeists, Crusades ring a bell? Or even the IRA? I mean the IRA wasn't that long ago when it was in full force. Stop reading into the bullcrap the media send to you and get out there and meet actual Muslims. Maybe you'll realise they're no different than you! Shock horror.

There you go again......

Crusades? You mean those things about 1000 years ago?
IRA? Have they deliberately set up hate schools in the UK? Do they teach kids to treat women as 2nd class citizens? Do they teach bigotry and intolerance?

Let me remind you what this thread was about - Saudi Sunday schools.

Why on earth you're turning this argument into something else I have no idea.

[Heliosphan]

Secular can also mean a singular instance, occurring or observed once, well done on citing wikipedia though, the uneditable fountain of knowledge.

The context in which you used the word was bang wrong my friend.

No use back-tracking now.

[_-john-_]

The context in which you used the word was bang wrong my friend.

No use back-tracking now.

I'm not back tracking, used it in exactly the context I wanted.

[_-john-_]

The point I was making has gone so far over your head it's unbelievable.

You see nothing remotely wrong about inconsistencies in law? As in, the fundamentals of decision making based on fairness and equality - the things on which our society is built? You're happy for the potential of mysogynistic Imams making judgements against women etc?



There you go again......

Crusades? You mean those things about 1000 years ago?
IRA? Have they deliberately set up hate schools in the UK? Do they teach kids to treat women as 2nd class citizens? Do they teach bigotry and intolerance?

Let me remind you what this thread was about - Saudi Sunday schools.

Why on earth you're turning this argument into something else I have no idea.

It's not about turning it into something else, it's about pointing out the horribly flawed arguments that bad bad racists use to fight their losing battle. Programmes like the one in question seek to do nothing BUT fan those flames, giving morons on forums the excuse to say daft shit like 'send em home lol'. Also the programme focussed on the fact it's religious teachings related to laws in another country, it seems to of been condemned that any such thing should be taught to children. While I see your point, it's about freedom to do such things, it's THAT that matters. The second you start telling someone they can't teach what they believe, is the second that freedom of speech is squashed, freedom of speech is something this country has fought long and hard for, it's for EVERYONE, not just the few YOU seem to think it should be for. Saying they can't teach those things, be it wrong or right, is hypocritical and the arguments poised here are massively flawed. Those laws will never see the legal light of day over here, ever. The IRA does teach hate, it gives an image for kids to look up to. How you miss those things is beyond me.

[Pieface]

The point I was making has gone so far over your head it's unbelievable.

You see nothing remotely wrong about inconsistencies in law? As in, the fundamentals of decision making based on fairness and equality - the things on which our society is built? You're happy for the potential of mysogynistic Imams making judgements against women etc?



There you go again......

Crusades? You mean those things about 1000 years ago?
IRA? Have they deliberately set up hate schools in the UK? Do they teach kids to treat women as 2nd class citizens? Do they teach bigotry and intolerance?

Let me remind you what this thread was about - Saudi Sunday schools.

Why on earth you're turning this argument into something else I have no idea.

No, what this thread shows (And still in this post) you seem to ignore the basic facts that they teach the fundamentals Christianity Sunday Schools teach. Christ you seriously don't listen. I'm turning this into an argument because your ignorance and bigotry against Islam is plain disgusting.

Tell me, in Christianity teachings, what happens to these?

Homosexuals? Against the religion.
Laws against humanity? An eye for an eye.
Those who don't believe in Christianity? They spend an eternity in hell.

You seem to find religious schools shocking, when they just plain aren't. You're just reading a Media side brought in to

a) Sell copies of a Newspaper
b) To sell these copies, usually articles full of crap with little basis to usually incense the reader.

You need to still realise all religions are the same over and over again. But as usual, I can tell you won't listen and spout more crap against Islam.

[Chris_O]

Everything you said contributed to my decision that you're simply a bigot, don't forget, we've invaded a country, to fight for something, the fact we're in their country and KILLING people is enough right for them to burn poppies in retaliation to that, open your eyes sunshine.



You really do struggle to understand the most simple things don't you? And I don't like the way you seem to completely misunderstand what i'm saying and brand me as something as a result of it. You seem very confused.

The Government made the decision to invade their country and go to war for a number of reasons which I am sure you are aware of, and that have been discussed on here numerous times. Yet the ironic factor that I am trying to explain to your retard self is that it is ultimately the Government once again are standing by, watching and doing nothing to intervene as these Muslim extremeists take these actions. And as said before, most probabaly paying for them to live.

Still struggling to understand some simple facts? I thought so.

[_-john-_]

You really do struggle to understand the most simple things don't you? And I don't like the way you seem to completely misunderstand what i'm saying and brand me as something as a result of it. You seem very confused.

The Government made the decision to invade their country and go to war for a number of reasons which I am sure you are aware of, and that have been discussed on here numerous times. Yet the ironic factor that I am trying to explain to your retard self is that it is ultimately the Government once again are standing by, watching and doing nothing to intervene as these Muslim extremeists take these actions. And as said before, most probabaly paying for them to live.

Still struggling to understand some simple facts? I thought so.

I don't struggle in the slightest, I see your comments for what they are. I don't minsunderstand what you're saying, again, I see it as what it is, uneducated, assumptive and plain stupid.

Those three points I've highlighted, correct, it was the government that sent soldiers to occupy a country that didn't want us there, innocents by the THOUSANDS have died as a result. And yeah, the government sat by and watched these 'extremists' burn poppies because they simply HAVE to, as it's an EXPRESSION OF FREE SPEECH, you fucking nonce, everything you say comes across as bigoted as fuck.

It's ironic that a lot of people, including some in this thread, seem to think it's NOT ok for Muslims to have the right to free speech over here and are practically 'invaders' of this country, yet we're over there, shooting up civilians and blowing up vital areas and that's all ok as it's in the name of "anti-terrorism".

Paying for them to live? Again a bigoted, stereotyping view of a race, don't try to mask the fact you actually think that most Asians don't work, sit on benefits and have 25 living in a council flat. Your views and opinions are horrible, or you're just way too stupid to see how bigoted you come across. There's no balanced thought or reason in anything you put, at all, full stop.

[Lewis1600]

Dont even want to read the first page.



Disgrace, if you ask me.

[matt_vtr_15a]

I run the risk of being slightly racist here however...

I don't mind any race that respects our heritage etc. but when they are brainwashing their children into hating and segregating in our country they need fucking deporting...

I am doing a degree with a lot of muslims on the same course, 90% of them are the most arrogant, ignorant long beard pricks I have ever met with no respect whatsoever! If a girl is behind them they will not hold the door open like a well mannered BRIT they will let it shut on her face as they don't respect women (my experience numerous times)..

I seriously can not stand them, and we should not put up with it!! We could never build a church in a muslim majority country etc...

[_-john-_]

I run the risk of being slightly racist here however...

I don't mind any race that respects our heritage etc. but when they are brainwashing their children into hating and segregating in our country they need fucking deporting...

I am doing a degree with a lot of muslims on the same course, 90% of them are the most arrogant, ignorant long beard pricks I have ever met with no respect whatsoever! If a girl is behind them they will not hold the door open like a well mannered BRIT they will let it shut on her face as they don't respect women (my experience numerous times)..

I seriously can not stand them, and we should not put up with it!! We could never build a church in a muslim majority country etc...

Haha, don't even know where to get started on this.

[Pieface]

I run the risk of being slightly racist here however...

I don't mind any race that respects our heritage etc. but when they are brainwashing their children into hating and segregating in our country they need fucking deporting...

I am doing a degree with a lot of muslims on the same course, 90% of them are the most arrogant, ignorant long beard pricks I have ever met with no respect whatsoever! If a girl is behind them they will not hold the door open like a well mannered BRIT they will let it shut on her face as they don't respect women (my experience numerous times)..

I seriously can not stand them, and we should not put up with it!! We could never build a church in a muslim majority country etc...

Brainwashing their children? Seriously? Oh dear.

[adamm]

pieface now has a a second account?
eveyone will always have there opinions john and pieface the fact is people like me feel our tax money is going on bringing more of these extremeist cunts in to then moan and protest our ways you know what fuck them and i dispise people who stick up for them tbh. although you call this racist how can you say some of them arent.

[nikrh1990]

at risk of being branded a racist,, i agree with matt_vtr.

why should different rules apply to us than to people with a different background. they come to our contry and disrespect our beliefs, our heritage and our public. but if we did the same in their country we would be punished most probably by dismembermant or death.

take the burning of poppies for an example. why should this blatant lack of respect for people who fought for their country and lost their lifes in action, be acceptable.

im outraged and disgusted by the behaviour of most of the 'comer inners' in this country. if they have such hatred for us brits and our beliefs then why are they living in britain please?!!? oh yeah its because we throw benefits their way, and they even claim benefits for family still in their homeland. what the fuck is that about.

anyone who brands me a racist for voicing my opinion is welcome to. i know what i believe and to be honest i could care less if people disagree with me. im honest and unlike some brits i tell it how it is rather than pretending they dont care. and am not afraid of being branded a RACIST.

[Bound]

The world would be a better place without religion, if you are only accountable to a higher being then your actions on earth do not matter, you can do what you want as long as it is within your religious rules, it makes what you do on earth meaningless, as there is a higher consequence, therefore actions are negligible. You are not living your life, you are living following pre determined rules of faith, you are living someone else's life, "gods" life, it's his rules, you aren't thinking for yourself.

I feel sorry for people that follow a faith, I am happy they get comfort from it, and I, nor anyone else has a right to tell them they can't get comfort from it, but in the same way psychics and mediums bring comfort to grieving families. however that is deception, then again, it goes in the same misleading basket as religion.

I wonder how liberating it would be for people with faith to lead a life where only your actions on earth count for something, where what you do here is the only thing that matters.

[Pieface]

pieface now has a a second account?
eveyone will always have there opinions john and pieface the fact is people like me feel our tax money is going on bringing more of these extremeist cunts in to then moan and protest our ways you know what fuck them and i dispise people who stick up for them tbh. although you call this racist how can you say some of them arent.

Most of these are British Citizens. And I don't stick up for them, I stick up for equality and their right to free speech..

[23carragold]

No, what this thread shows (And still in this post) you seem to ignore the basic facts that they teach the fundamentals Christianity Sunday Schools teach. Christ you seriously don't listen. I'm turning this into an argument because your ignorance and bigotry against Islam is plain disgusting.

Tell me, in Christianity teachings, what happens to these?

Homosexuals? Against the religion.
Laws against humanity? An eye for an eye.
Those who don't believe in Christianity? They spend an eternity in hell.

You seem to find religious schools shocking, when they just plain aren't. You're just reading a Media side brought in to

a) Sell copies of a Newspaper
b) To sell these copies, usually articles full of crap with little basis to usually incense the reader.

You need to still realise all religions are the same over and over again. But as usual, I can tell you won't listen and spout more crap against Islam.

Could not have put it any better myself.

Matt_vtr..you actually sound like an ignorant fool. You base your judgement on a small group of people, for the sole reason of not opening a door for a girl? You sound completely idiotic and rather simple minded. You have read far too much into a petty situation, and formed the foundations of your "argument" against Muslims on such a ridiculously thin aspect it makes me laugh. Try and educate yourself on issues such as this, before putting forward an input that makes you look an incredibly misinformed and misguided idiot.

[adamm]

Most of these are British Citizens. And I don't stick up for them, I stick up for equality and their right to free speech..

but and a big but why can they come here and be racist and get away with it yet if we was to be racist we would get punished. im not really on abit the british citizens if they live normal life like us then im fine with that but when there preaching there shit allover the streets it makes me angry. i cant help it maybe its just me or maybe its just you but im pretty certain alot of brits are angry about these foreign extremists.
im not a racist but these idiots are making me racist by giving me a problem with them. if they just went about doing everyday things keeping them selves like me and most other brits to themselves and respecting others beliefs then thats fine but they dont they come here and want everyone to be like them. and one day it probably will which is a big shame really

[23carragold]

but and a big but why can they come here and be racist and get away with it yet if we was to be racist we would get punished. im not really on abit the british citizens if they live normal life like us then im fine with that but when there preaching there shit allover the streets it makes me angry. i cant help it maybe its just me or maybe its just you but im pretty certain alot of brits are angry about these foreign extremists.
im not a racist but these idiots are making me racist by giving me a problem with them. if they just went about doing everyday things keeping them selves like me and most other brits to themselves and respecting others beliefs then thats fine but they dont they come here and want everyone to be like them. and one day it probably will which is a big shame really

You need to be careful as to who you are venting your hate towards. Steer clear of hearsay and the shit that tabloids print, as remember, it is only the minority who misinterpret the Quran and then spout their tainted version of Islam everywhere, which ends up tarring all Muslims with the same crap.

[Pieface]

but and a big but why can they come here and be racist and get away with it yet if we was to be racist we would get punished. im not really on abit the british citizens if they live normal life like us then im fine with that but when there preaching there shit allover the streets it makes me angry. i cant help it maybe its just me or maybe its just you but im pretty certain alot of brits are angry about these foreign extremists.
im not a racist but these idiots are making me racist by giving me a problem with them. if they just went about doing everyday things keeping them selves like me and most other brits to themselves and respecting others beliefs then thats fine but they dont they come here and want everyone to be like them. and one day it probably will which is a big shame really

Why do you keep using the word they? You never actually state a group. Do you mean all Muslims or a certain sect? And they're allowed to preach their "shit". It's called Freedom of Speech. You know what some (Not the current wars) were fought for? If you want to take away a certain groups rights, then we're stepping into Communism here.

If you don't like the extremists message, ignore them. If everyone ignored the message they would try and preach, then they would soon stop. But all Britain's like to have a good moan eh.

[Jamees]

wish they would burn more poppy's :)

[rorz_vts]

wish they would burn more poppy's :)

if i ever meet you im going to kick your fuckin head in

i personally dont support any religion and think certain members from both sides of this arguement are right to a degree, i aim my ill say hate toward our government for letting this country get like it is, being an ex soldier and finding out about the burning of the poppies all i can say is that i felt physically sick and would of personally had them all lined up and shot, fuck deporting them as this is what would of been done in their country, i was also pissed off to here that only 1 of them was arrested and that 9brits (correct me if im wrong) were arrested for trying to stop them.
I dont think people should take a hate out on the religion its self as its not much different from christianity its just england unlike america doesnt make it rules based on whats wrote in a fictional book, i have no problem with them being here but the law is the law and they shouldnt get away with half the things that they do but as were seen as a multi-race country and political correctness is at a stupid level they're near enough untouchable, Govenments fault, the fact they can come here in droves go to the top the the housing ladder and we cram them into a majoretly muslim area, govenments fault, and that they can come here and just sit round and claim dole thats also the govenments fault, i personally only know 2 muslims, 1 of them doesnt follow it at all just because of the fact theres none of them where i live, and the other was in the army and half his family had renonced him because he joined up to fight for HIS country but his close family apon seeing what this has done have removed all trace of them which in my eyes is very sad,
what i think should happen is if they want to come here them should 1 have a trade such as a doctor etc and 2 if they bring there family with them then they should be conscripted for a min of 3years. i also think that if england brought conscription back say from the ages of 16/18 for 3 years we wouldnt be a nation of hate and diversity as you would have to look out/die for each other

sorry for the rant it just does my head in, newzealand in 3 years whoop

[Bound]

wish they would burn more poppy's :)

Why? :).

[Jamees]

Why? :).

I'm a muslim and is that now what we ALL do?

[Bound]

I'm a muslim and is that now what we ALL do?

Wish I hadn't bothered to edit.

So to quote myself.

Stop trolling you fucking prick.

That's like me saying I want to eat the Quran (I say eat rather than burn due the religious significance behind burning), plus eating it and the inevitable digestion problems are funnier (no need to make the associated bullshit pun in relation to religion :D). And no, I never said that, and yes, saying that, if you actually believe that, makes you an utter cunt, don't accuse me of believing all Muslims are bad or anything even remotely like that.

[Heliosphan]

No, what this thread shows (And still in this post) you seem to ignore the basic facts that they teach the fundamentals Christianity Sunday Schools teach. Christ you seriously don't listen. I'm turning this into an argument because your ignorance and bigotry against Islam is plain disgusting.

Tell me, in Christianity teachings, what happens to these?

Homosexuals? Against the religion.
Laws against humanity? An eye for an eye.
Those who don't believe in Christianity? They spend an eternity in hell.

You seem to find religious schools shocking, when they just plain aren't. You're just reading a Media side brought in to

a) Sell copies of a Newspaper
b) To sell these copies, usually articles full of crap with little basis to usually incense the reader.

You need to still realise all religions are the same over and over again. But as usual, I can tell you won't listen and spout more crap against Islam.

What a load of drivel.

First of all, do you have any idea what Wahhabism actaully is?

First of all it's the official version of Islam in Saudi Arabia, a fundamentalist Islamic State. Amongst the things I've mentioned before, it outlaws things like photographs, music, singing, videos and television. It basically preaches anti-Westernism and it's prevalent in about 40 schools in the UK. Get this into your head. It isn't anything like Christian Sunday schools.

[Heliosphan]

It's not about turning it into something else, it's about pointing out the horribly flawed arguments that bad bad racists use to fight their losing battle. Programmes like the one in question seek to do nothing BUT fan those flames, giving morons on forums the excuse to say daft shit like 'send em home lol'. Also the programme focussed on the fact it's religious teachings related to laws in another country, it seems to of been condemned that any such thing should be taught to children. While I see your point, it's about freedom to do such things, it's THAT that matters. The second you start telling someone they can't teach what they believe, is the second that freedom of speech is squashed, freedom of speech is something this country has fought long and hard for, it's for EVERYONE, not just the few YOU seem to think it should be for. Saying they can't teach those things, be it wrong or right, is hypocritical and the arguments poised here are massively flawed. Those laws will never see the legal light of day over here, ever. The IRA does teach hate, it gives an image for kids to look up to. How you miss those things is beyond me.

So this progam just fans the flames does it yet you never even saw it.

From what I can gather, because these schools are privately run, it appears that they aren't investigated by OFSTED. So, to pick up your point about freedom, technically there's nothing to stop the "teacher" teaching whatever they want - I wouldn't dispute that point.

The thing is, where do you draw the line at what is considered freedom of speech or freedom of expression? At what point do you decide that what is going on behind the doors of these schools is counter productive to society and these kids as a whole? We're talking about kids as young as 6 years old. Minds that are open to influence.......or brainwashing. How can it be acceptable to teach kids of any age, vile, anti-Western rhetoric? This was proven to be the case in the program. By the way, the ironic thing about affording tolerance and freedom to these right-wing Islmists is that they preach the exact opposite.

It should be the case that where it can be proven that kids are being indoctrinated with religious values that are so outrageously counter to the values and ethics of a modern secular society then the government should take action.

Further to this, isn't it also ironic that we have troops out in Afghanistan who are dying whilst supposedly trying to alleviate the terrorist threat. Yet, potentially, the next generation of Jihadists are being educated under our noses.

[adamm]

Why do you keep using the word they? You never actually state a group. Do you mean all Muslims or a certain sect? And they're allowed to preach their "shit". It's called Freedom of Speech. You know what some (Not the current wars) were fought for? If you want to take away a certain groups rights, then we're stepping into Communism here.

If you don't like the extremists message, ignore them. If everyone ignored the message they would try and preach, then they would soon stop. But all Britain's like to have a good moan eh.

when i state they i mean any foreigner who wants to come here and be ungreatfull for what they have here and to almost if not be racist toward us the british. brits do like to moan lol cant disagree with that. and your right it should be egnored but then how come we wouldnt get egnored if i was to walk the streets with a banner saying all extremeists should burn in hell i think it would get spoke about tbh

[23carragold]

What a load of drivel.

First of all, do you have any idea what Wahhabism actaully is?

First of all it's the official version of Islam in Saudi Arabia, a fundamentalist Islamic State. Amongst the things I've mentioned before, it outlaws things like photographs, music, singing, videos and television. It basically preaches anti-Westernism and it's prevalent in about 40 schools in the UK. Get this into your head. It isn't anything like Christian Sunday schools.

Wahhabism is a school of thought in Islam, which if I must say, has no place. It's overtly strict and draconian method of implementing the meaning of the Quran in Islam is backward, outdated and just plain wrong in my opinion. The problem is, due to the country of Saudi being such a strict place to live, they have decided that the school of thought they will adopt is Wahhabism.

The majority of Muslims in the UK do not follow Wahhabism, more so they are following the Hanafi school of thought which is the most widely followed in the world for Muslims.

[Moke]

wish they would burn more poppy's :)

You fucking idiot.

I'd love for you to say that in person, not on a forum.

[Heliosphan]

Can we keep the debate clean please.

Mods - can you moderate and take down any posts that are blatantly offensive etc.

[Moke]

Can we keep the debate clean please.

Mods - can you moderate and take down any posts that are blatantly offensive etc.

What's the point? The thread might as well be deleted.

[Heliosphan]

Wahhabism is a school of thought in Islam, which if I must say, has no place. It's overtly strict and draconian method of implementing the meaning of the Quran in Islam is backward, outdated and just plain wrong in my opinion. The problem is, due to the country of Saudi being such a strict place to live, they have decided that the school of thought they will adopt is Wahhabism.

The majority of Muslims in the UK do not follow Wahhabism, more so they are following the Hanafi school of thought which is the most widely followed in the world for Muslims.

Unfortunately Saudi Arabia has a huge influence in the region partly because of oil which allows it to further this brand of Islam with little objection - not even from the UK. Of course it's a backward ideology but in the world of Islam it's a relatively new interpretation - 17 century is where it's origins lay.

So why should we tolerate this kind of nonsense being taught in UK schools?

By the way, I'm aware that the majority of muslims are not Wahhabi.

[Heliosphan]

What's the point? The thread might as well be deleted.

Because some people are actually interested in debating without getting abusive.

If you don't like it, leave.

[NickJ]

This is an interesting thread, good debates from both sides

Agree with Heliosphan, get rid of the posts where people are clearly just being e-dickheads and let the debate run it's course

[rorz_vts]

What's the point? The thread might as well be deleted.

i agree and love how my post on pg5 was completely ignored lol i think what i saids the truth

[23carragold]

Unfortunately Saudi Arabia has a huge influence in the region partly because of oil which allows it to further this brand of Islam with little objection - not even from the UK. Of course it's a backward ideology but in the world of Islam it's a relatively new interpretation - 17 century is where it's origins lay.

So why should we tolerate this kind of nonsense being taught in UK schools?

By the way, I'm aware that the majority of muslims are not Wahhabi.

I personally agree with your notion that Wahhabism should not be implemented whatsoever in the UK, be it in Islamic schools or behind closed doors. Saudi does have an influence, but the majority of Muslim countries, unlike Saudi, do not even follow Wahhabism anyway, choosing to adopt the more liberal Hanafi approach, which is what Muslims imo should be choosing.

What narrow minded idiots who offer retarded opinions like "get them out ffs etc etc" need to understand is, that it's this distinction that gets blurred and ends up tarring every single Muslim with the same stigma of being some sort of extremist fool, when clearly, they aren't.

[Moke]

i agree and love how my post on pg5 was completely ignored lol i think what i saids the truth

Fair enough, have a debate, but these threads always turn nasty or racist, so what is the point?

If you don't like certain rules, go and cry to the PM. If you don't like people burning poppies, burn their faces. If you see anyone burning poppies, kick them in the head.

Simples.

[rorz_vts]

Fair enough, have a debate, but these threads always turn nasty or racist, so what is the point?

If you don't like certain rules, go and cry to the PM. If you don't like people burning poppies, burn their faces. If you see anyone burning poppies, kick them in the head.

Simples.

if you could give thanks here bud id give it :y:

[adamm]

Because some people are actually interested in debating without getting abusive.

If you don't like it, leave.

in that case the debate will go on forever and people will never agree as its there own opinions at the end of the day people are only voicing them.
got to admit it is abit of a pointless thread now as its not really going to get far.
im far from being knoledgeable on religions and this subject so really my input is invalid but i still have an opinion on it uneducated or not.

[23carragold]

Fair enough, have a debate, but these threads always turn nasty or racist, so what is the point?

If you don't like certain rules, go and cry to the PM. If you don't like people burning poppies, burn their faces. If you see anyone burning poppies, kick them in the head.

Simples.

Mike the problem is though, the absolute thickos or retards who read every page of the tabloids or take in every last drop of mainstream news who add input to threads like these will always exist. They offer their, frankly cuntish views and spoil threads that genuinely have potential for a well reasoned debate to be carried out.

[adamm]

Mike the problem is though, the absolute thickos or retards who read every page of the tabloids or take in every last drop of mainstream news who add input to threads like these will always exist. They offer their, frankly cuntish views and spoil threads that genuinely have potential for a well reasoned debate to be carried out.

but we have a right to put our opinion in right? tbh i dont read all these tabloids shit either im 20 im not realy interested i just dont like extremeists pretty much being racist towards brits or christianity or people who dont believe in anything they try to force it onto people and if your not one of them your nothing pretty much. imo its not fair.

[23carragold]

but we have a right to put our opinion in right? tbh i dont read all these tabloids shit either im 20 im not realy interested i just dont like extremeists pretty much being racist towards brits or christianity or people who dont believe in anything they try to force it onto people and if your not one of them your nothing pretty much. imo its not fair.

Wasn't aimed at you to be honest. But, a debate is about facts and reasoning, not simple opinions. I accept you have little knowledge on things like these, but some research and you will find your own way there.

However, the said people do have a right to their opinion, but that opinion has no place where a sensible and clean debate is occurring. Offering up, racist, bigoted, ignorant and even downright stupid comments does nothing for a thread, and nothing for the topic.

If you're going to be a racist cunt (not you adamm, just generically), fuck off from this thread and fuck off from the site tbh. Racism of any form, is unacceptable to me, and to the majority of members on here.

[leeham987]

religon seems to be the root of all problems

[Saxo-SX]

Threads like this always end up going well off topic, and get far too complicated.

Should Wahhabism be preached in UK schools? No. Whats the need in preaching this in the UK? What good is it? You live in the UK, you live by UK rules. Learning to cut someones hands of for stealing? ...Why? Its against the law. Its like a man with no legs buying a bike...There's just no point.

To be honest I dont mind the genuine working Muslims that come here. The problem is the minority who give the rest a bad name. Such as burning the poppies etc. Those fuckers should be kicked STRAIGHT out of the country. No question about it. If they want to be so disrespectful to a country which is offering them a much better quality of life, they can gtfo.

[adamm]

yeah i enjoy reading the debates and seeing peoples opinions on a knowledgable perspective its interesting and i can understand that my opinions to someone with knowledge on the subject may seem naive and imature but i do fell some of them (islamic) are racist towards us and they get away with it. i dont feel how they have the right to live here when they look down on us and despise us just because we dont have the same beliefs as them its not right and new laws should be bought in to stop religious preaching on the streets. i dont have a problem with there beliefs aslong as it doesnt affect me but when they start acting like "not one of them DIE" i dont like it atall and surely you can understand it. maybe you should not look into it on the knowledgeable side and look at it basicly and see from a basic view what they are doing (some of them)

just to say i dont want to be offensive to anyone and my comments arent aimed at as a dig at anyone... yet ;)

[leeham987]

people without all the ins and outs of the subject can still give opinions if it affects them, hate know it alls

[23carragold]

yeah i enjoy reading the debates and seeing peoples opinions on a knowledgable perspective its interesting and i can understand that my opinions to someone with knowledge on the subject may seem naive and imature but i do fell some of them (islamic) are racist towards us and they get away with it. i dont feel how they have the right to live here when they look down on us and despise us just because we dont have the same beliefs as them its not right and new laws should be bought in to stop religious preaching on the streets. i dont have a problem with there beliefs aslong as it doesnt affect me but when they start acting like "not one of them DIE" i dont like it atall and surely you can understand it. maybe you should not look into it on the knowledgeable side and look at it basicly and see from a basic view what they are doing (some of them)

just to say i dont want to be offensive to anyone and my comments arent aimed at as a dig at anyone... yet ;)


Your naivety is showing. You are classing all Muslim's as immigrants. Not every single Muslim here is an immigrant..a significant majority are British born..so please stop classing them as foreigners when there are plenty who are not. There are Christians, Jews, Hindus etc who look down on others because they feel they are superior, yet are born here, do you feel the same hate towards them? Stop focusing solely on Muslims because your "arguments" are looking increasingly thin and rather silly now.

I fucking hate preachers in the streets, of all religions. How the fuck would someone preaching/shouting at you in the street convince you to change your religion or repent?

Islam teaches as a rule of thumb, that to teach people about our religion is to do so peacefully, and if a person declines, that essentially is it.

I was in Camden Town last year, and I had these "Islamic" preachers practically shout at me through a megaphone because I told them that what they were doing was completely against the principles of Islam. They all circled me and threatened to beat me up and accused me of being an "evil Muslim", and that I was going to hell.


It's this type of "Muslim" that is giving every single other decent Muslim a bad name.

[Heliosphan]

I was in Camden Town last year, and I had these "Islamic" preachers practically shout at me through a megaphone because I told them that what they were doing was completely against the principles of Islam. They all circled me and threatened to beat me up and accused me of being an "evil Muslim", and that I was going to hell.

What was the protest about?

[adamm]

Your naivety is showing. You are classing all Muslim's as immigrants. Not every single Muslim here is an immigrant..a significant majority are British born..so please stop classing them as foreigners when there are plenty who are not. There are Christians, Jews, Hindus etc who look down on others because they feel they are superior, yet are born here, do you feel the same hate towards them? Stop focusing solely on Muslims because your "arguments" are looking increasingly thin and rather silly now.

I fucking hate preachers in the streets, of all religions. How the fuck would someone preaching/shouting at you in the street convince you to change your religion or repent?

Islam teaches as a rule of thumb, that to teach people about our religion is to do so peacefully, and if a person declines, that essentially is it.

I was in Camden Town last year, and I had these "Islamic" preachers practically shout at me through a megaphone because I told them that what they were doing was completely against the principles of Islam. They all circled me and threatened to beat me up and accused me of being an "evil Muslim", and that I was going to hell.


It's this type of "Muslim" that is giving every single other decent Muslim a bad name.


no no im not classing all muslims as immigrants. i am fully aware that some are fine iv worked at muslims houses and there fine friendly people.
as i said before its the preachers on the streets that need to fuck off. and yes that goes to any religion. imo people should have there own beliefs and be left to it people should not be aloud to stand on the streets trying to force people to become there religion be it christian or anything else i do not agree with it. thats basicly my overall input anyway i hope you understand whaere im coming from and the fact im not against muslims im against the preachers.

[_-john-_]

Threads like this always end up going well off topic, and get far too complicated.

Should Wahhabism be preached in UK schools? No. Whats the need in preaching this in the UK? What good is it? You live in the UK, you live by UK rules. Learning to cut someones hands of for stealing? ...Why? Its against the law. Its like a man with no legs buying a bike...There's just no point.

To be honest I dont mind the genuine working Muslims that come here. The problem is the minority who give the rest a bad name. Such as burning the poppies etc. Those fuckers should be kicked STRAIGHT out of the country. No question about it. If they want to be so disrespectful to a country which is offering them a much better quality of life, they can gtfo.


Also a country which has occupied theirs and as a result, thousands upon thousands of innocents have lost their lives in miscalculated bombing runs, overly trigger happy soldiers and big fat mistakes as a whole. Burning poppies is hardly as bad as that, is it? Yet they say 'gtfo of our country' and our government says 'no thanks, we're interested in capitolising on the resources in this region and we're willing to kill you for it'.

[_-john-_]

You know what's more ironic about this debate, is that people are kicking off about a few poppies being burned, yet nobody seems to want to discuss the frankly fucking barbaric behavious of a bunch of studenty cunts in London who think it's ok to break a police mans arm, assault community officers, vandalise property and smash up police vans.

I think this topic has run it's course (personally) I think the following:

1. it's not ok to teach anything anti social in schools of any form
2. but it IS ok as like anything else, it's freedom of speech and expression
3. the overly disgusting attitude of some of the posts in here are representative of just how backwards this country is due to lack of education
4. people need to accept we live in an open, multicultural society, there's no such thing as 'our' country, it's everyones country for those who reside here, always has been
5. people need to stop simply believing what's written in tabloids and shown on television, don't you realise this is equally as fucking fanatical and pointless as right wing Imam's teaching right wing beliefs in a left wing country?
6. we can sit here for the rest of eternity debating who is wrong and right, the fact is that nobody is either, they're all opinions with a few facts thrown in, opinions are never wrong, just something you agree with or don't agree with
7. there is simply no place for racism or stereotyping, it's fucking vile behaviour

There's more but I'm sure I've made my point. As much as I disagree with a lot of views put across in here, I respect the fact that they're someones opinion, so no offence intended in anything I've typed. I have no time for racism though, so all of those commentors can get a grip and go away.

[MAXSTARR]

how has this not been locked :/

[_-john-_]

how has this not been locked :/

There's a few daft racist posts in here, but they're far outweighed by sensible (if disagreeable) posts by users who aren't into just typing 'lol fkn send em home the dirte bastudz'.

[Moke]

how has this not been locked :/

I'm J222JRA and it is now locked...







http://www.coachingintogreatness.com/padlock.jpg

[MAXSTARR]

cheers j246558746485848jra

[Rogue_Shadow]

*Sigh*
Another one of these threads, Dont think I can be assed to argue this time.
What to do ... Spose I Haven't used the Dire Monster in awhile.

http://www.dreadcentral.com/img/news/feb09/direwolf.jpg

As you were :y:

[enthrone]

Cannot be arsed to put an arguement up at this time plus im on my phone but seriously some people in this thread need to stop reading tabloids.

Btw did any of the people saying that islam was based on outdated laws realise thay slavery was only fully abolished in the uk this year.

[Bound]

Btw did any of the people saying that islam was based on outdated laws

Who's saying that?

Certainly sounds like sharia law though - outdated, inhumane, disgusting, incompatible with western civilisation, racist, discriminatory, immoral, unethical, these are all things that describe sharia law, however no one's saying Islam was based upon it, unless they're idiots.

Btw did any of the people saying that islam was based on outdated laws realise thay slavery was only fully abolished in the uk this year.

Legal technicality, not an argument, unless you know of anyone that's actually been keeping slaves untill it was "abolished" this year?

[_-john-_]

Who's saying that?

Certainly sounds like sharia law though - outdated, inhumane, disgusting, incompatible with western civilisation, racist, discriminatory, immoral, unethical, these are all things that describe sharia law, however no one's saying Islam was based upon it, unless they're idiots.



Legal technicality, not an argument, unless you know of anyone that's actually been keeping slaves untill it was "abolished" this year?

http://www.topnews.in/files/Josef-Fritzl101.jpg

[Bound]

http://www.topnews.in/files/Josef-Fritzl101.jpg

Austrian && that was illegal. Not legal due to a technicality, lol.

[Jamie]

I think that;British schools should have British rules, but on weekends hold muslim classes to accommodate.

It won't be the first or last time you read this, there is goodand bad in all.
IMO all religious teachings are relatively similar, it's about how they are percieved by the individual. I also believe the media takes advantage of happenings and turns everyone against eachother.

The people who burned poppys should be deported, or if British born should get a severe slap on the wrist. As should the racist chanters. (slap on the wrist that is)

I think what it is, is the media swing a story, un-educated people read the tabliods/listen to the news and think wtf!? They realise our country is run crap and that our legal system is in tatters, they then realise legal systems from other countries don't fail their citizens and get angry,they don't know how to voice it, and boom.

This country has no sense of integrity and as a consequence is left with no dignity. I bet we are laughed at as a nation. People are easily manipulated.

[Bound]

It's all Abrahamic pagan bullshit, it's just a question off suffering through the different shades of grey.

[Heliosphan]

You know what's more ironic about this debate, is that people are kicking off about a few poppies being burned, yet nobody seems to want to discuss the frankly fucking barbaric behavious of a bunch of studenty cunts in London who think it's ok to break a police mans arm, assault community officers, vandalise property and smash up police vans .

No excuse for assault but a broken window etc is easily replaced. It's just indicative of general feeling. I take it you agree with the their right to protest? Afterall, the democratic route has failed them. An increase in tuition fees wasn't in the Cons manifesto and Clegg vowed not to increase them. They get into power and do exactly that. Totally un-democratic and frankly violent towards future students who are going to be saddled with an inhumane amount of debt.

I think this topic has run it's course (personally) I think the following:

1. it's not ok to teach anything anti social in schools of any form
2. but it IS ok as like anything else, it's freedom of speech and expression

Back on topic, I'm genuinely not sure what you're saying here. Are you saying it's ok for these schools to exist (in current form) or not? Freedom of speech can only go so far. Look at those guys from Sunderland who were arrested for burning copies of the Qur'an. Would you class that as freedom of expression? They were charged for incitement to religious hatred in the end.

Islamic schools (these included) should be teaching pupils how their faith is set against the democratic ideals we follow. Surely, if we want to stamp out violent jihadists and hardline extremist views then schools like this should be tightly monitored and closed if necessary. In this climate, the last thing we need is hundreds/thousands of kids growing up to hate the country in which they live. I can't believe anyone would dismiss this kind of crap as freedom of speech/expression and brush it under the carpet.

[_-john-_]

I say it's ok, as preaching isn't practising. But I'm only saying it out of principle, you take away their rights, you have to take away everyones. But I do genuinly see your point and agree to a certain point. I feel the same way about it as I would if I heard some dickhead down the pub shouting anti immigrant stuff/being homophobic. As much as I wanna thump them, I don't say a thing as it's freedom of speech! You have to take the higher ground on it, lead by example and so on.

On a much nicer note, and to show not all Muslims are towel headed haters of the world that isn't Islam:

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=148736505171723&oid=92799481765&comments

[_-john-_]

I wouldn't consider it teaching them to hate this country either, it's teaching them the ways of their home country, which they're free to go to at any point if they disagree with what's done here, because lets face it, no matter how many immigrants come here, we'll ALWAYS be Great Britain, a nation built on others and our laws will never bend over to accomodate outdated practices from other regions of the world. Simple.

[Heliosphan]

I say it's ok, as preaching isn't practising. But I'm only saying it out of principle, you take away their rights, you have to take away everyones. But I do genuinly see your point and agree to a certain point. I feel the same way about it as I would if I heard some dickhead down the pub shouting anti immigrant stuff/being homophobic. As much as I wanna thump them, I don't say a thing as it's freedom of speech! You have to take the higher ground on it, lead by example and so on

I think we'll have to agree to disagree, you're far more liberal minded than I am and liberalism is something the extremists clearly take advantage of.

I just find the whole rhetoric totally inappropriate.

[_-john-_]

No, I get you, believe me. I also understand your seemingly 'zero tolerance' stance on it. But my point is that while they're teaching methodology of practice in a foreign country, there's no place for it in the UK due to multiple factors, the main one being the Law and the second one being how our free society works. It's the freedom to teach what you want that's important, it's not teaching guerilla warfare, bomb making or even necessarily hate, from the amount of info I've gathered, it's simply teaching what goes on back in a home country.

Now, for example, if we banned them from teaching practices in another country, then we'd HAVE to ban marches from the likes of the BNP, EDL, Animal rights activists, AFA...you name it, as they're all anti-something-important-to-our-society. And it's that, that's incredibly important in all this debate. Opinions are opinions and I respect that, but you can't have a lack of tolerance for a lack of tolerance of you become what you're fighting against, we're a free society, and as long as what they're teaching isn't being put into practice here, it's all good. There's seperation in all walks of life, colour isn't skin deep, it's social and political, but we all have to learn to co-exist as the world becomes incredibly smaller and more open to movement, otherwise we'll fall into something terrible like WW3!

[_-john-_]

And I'd also like to think that the video I posted is evidence enough for the racists in this thread to see that religion, like anything else, is incredibly positive when put into the right hands. That one mans act of kindness has changed another mans life, which will no doubt have a ripple effect of positivity that will help far more people. To me that's far more important to note than a few angry individuals who burn poppies. :)

[micks233]

John seeing as youve done a lot of talking through 8 pages, which i skipped as i was fed up of reading alot of your bullsh*t let me ask you a simple question, what religion do you believe in?

Your arguing for a religion which to tbh, do you really think they would give a flying f**k who you are?.... answers NO my freind. Not all, but the majority of muslims, are infact RACIST. As many have said, they have no respect for this country or this countries rules.

They are quick enough to slag off this nation, but are also quick enough to use our free health service, our free education etc. What have they done for us? apart from a small majority, they have brought hate into this country.

The burning of the poppies, racist as i may sound, id wished the EDL or NF had got hold of those racist cunts (excuse the language) and taught them a valuable lesson, how would they like it, if we went round burning something significant in their country?

Stupid or not mate, you need to see the reality of it, they couldnt give a fuck who you are let alown any of us, your just another muppet sticking up for a bunch of wronguns. Your just another asshole living under Camerons & the rest of the goverments spell. Wake up and smell the coffee.

[Bound]

Your just another asshole living under Camerons & the rest of the goverments spell. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Actually, immigration, as that's the problem your highlighting, is Blair and Brown's labour party monumental series of fuck ups, not the Conservatives.

[micks233]

Actually, immigration, as that's the problem your highlighting, is Blair and Brown's labour party monumental series of fuck ups, not the Conservatives.

If so why havent the conservatives done anything to stop this series of fuck ups? clearly they care as much as blair and brown did.

All goverments are the same, labour or conservative, they all promise things they never do, they are the real criminals in all this letting things like this happen are they not?

[0rang3peel]

If so why havent the conservatives done anything to stop this series of fuck ups? clearly they care as much as blair and brown did.

All goverments are the same, labour or conservative, they all promise things they never do, they are the real criminals in all this letting things like this happen are they not?

I'm fairly certain that obtaining a visa or the like is now ALOT harder than it used to be...

[Pieface]

John seeing as youve done a lot of talking through 8 pages, which i skipped as i was fed up of reading alot of your bullsh*t let me ask you a simple question, what religion do you believe in?

Your arguing for a religion which to tbh, do you really think they would give a flying f**k who you are?.... answers NO my freind. Not all, but the majority of muslims, are infact RACIST. As many have said, they have no respect for this country or this countries rules.

They are quick enough to slag off this nation, but are also quick enough to use our free health service, our free education etc. What have they done for us? apart from a small majority, they have brought hate into this country.

The burning of the poppies, racist as i may sound, id wished the EDL or NF had got hold of those racist cunts (excuse the language) and taught them a valuable lesson, how would they like it, if we went round burning something significant in their country?

Stupid or not mate, you need to see the reality of it, they couldnt give a fuck who you are let alown any of us, your just another muppet sticking up for a bunch of wronguns. Your just another asshole living under Camerons & the rest of the goverments spell. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Wow. Another uneducated idiot in this thread believing the word of the Daily Mail, and actually has no basic clue on British politics..

[JoshB]

Bingo. Ironic how a lack of education to our own, far far FAR from squeeky clean history, can make us judge people who're doing more watered down versions of our own mistakes from not so long ago.

I agree with this comment.

But my personal comment is backed up by that statement.
Basically we have moved on and acknowledged our mistakes. The "holy land" still thinks its the middle ages and that the western world is evil. Theyre still holding a grudge for the crusades and now that theyve seen the window is open to "invade" the minority of extremists are seizing every opportunity they get.

[micks233]

Wow. Another uneducated idiot in this thread believing the word of the Daily Mail, and actually has no basic clue on British politics..

What word of the daily mail? There were pictures to prove the statements, and unless you haven't read my post correctly, I never said all, I said a majority, so if there is any uneducated idiot it is you for not being able to read correctly.

[Pieface]

What word of the daily mail? There were pictures to prove the statements, and unless you haven't read my post correctly, I never said all, I said a majority, so if there is any uneducated idiot it is you for not being able to read correctly.

Well, seeming as you don't seem to understand, you have the Daily Mail set of mind. And your calling me uneducated for where you said all? Where did I even mention that? Or are you a bit dim?

And show me these pictures to prove these weird statements which you added that doesn't make sense.

[Heliosphan]

No, I get you, believe me. I also understand your seemingly 'zero tolerance' stance on it. But my point is that while they're teaching methodology of practice in a foreign country, there's no place for it in the UK due to multiple factors, the main one being the Law and the second one being how our free society works. It's the freedom to teach what you want that's important, it's not teaching guerilla warfare, bomb making or even necessarily hate, from the amount of info I've gathered, it's simply teaching what goes on back in a home country.

Now, for example, if we banned them from teaching practices in another country, then we'd HAVE to ban marches from the likes of the BNP, EDL, Animal rights activists, AFA...you name it, as they're all anti-something-important-to-our-society. And it's that, that's incredibly important in all this debate. Opinions are opinions and I respect that, but you can't have a lack of tolerance for a lack of tolerance of you become what you're fighting against, we're a free society, and as long as what they're teaching isn't being put into practice here, it's all good. There's seperation in all walks of life, colour isn't skin deep, it's social and political, but we all have to learn to co-exist as the world becomes incredibly smaller and more open to movement, otherwise we'll fall into something terrible like WW3!

Sorry for the essay but......I'm afraid I don't agree with a number of points that you make.

Firstly, I don't think the analogy with the BNP and EDL is really valid. One is a political party (which may I remind you was forced by another political party to change it's constitution - very undemocratic and goes against your own principles of freedom of expression) and the other is a protest group. We're talking about young impressionable kids being taught (or indoctrinated) about Wahhabism. If these kids grow up and want to learn about it, then fine. What I do have a problem with is kids from a young age learning this stuff because their parents want them to. All this leads to is young adults with a view that is potentially at odds with society as a whole. Not healthy for them, the UK as a whole and just leads to the kind of natural segregation that you see in almost every major town and city in the UK.

This leads me to a second point about these "rules" never being implemented here. Well, I'll concede that unless the UK adopts Wahhabism as it's principle rule of law then as you said these rules will never see the legal light of day. However, there's nothing to stop some of the other "lesser evil strands" of this form of Islam entering our legal system through the back-door, ie through the 80 odd (and increasing) sharia law courts. For instance, these kids are taught mysogynistic views. Therefore, what prevents a sharia law court dispensing justice on that same basis? That would be totally contrary to our ethics and values in the UK and it shouldn't be allowed to happen. Sharia tribunals should be outlawed along with the Jewish Beth Din courts but that's another debate......

Thirdly, we're fighting a war on terror (apparently). Would it therefore not be logical to nip this sort of Islamic extremism in the bud straight away? Kids should be taught tolerance, respect and equality from a young age certainly not anti-wetern sentiment - and on UK soil!

Fourth, to pick up on an earlier point you made about Panorama. You said that the programme merely fans the flames of anti-muslim sentiment. Are you suggesting that the BBC has some kind of racist / anti-Islamic agenda with that remark?

Freedom of speech or expression doesn't transcend all boundaries. You have to draw the line. If you disagree with that then you're going way beyond the realms of liberalism and very much down the track of anarchism.

[23carragold]

What word of the daily mail? There were pictures to prove the statements, and unless you haven't read my post correctly, I never said all, I said a majority, so if there is any uneducated idiot it is you for not being able to read correctly.

LOL

How incredibly retarded to even state the "majority" of Muslims are racist!

There is not a single shred of credibility in your random deluded rant. Another thick idiot offering up his slice of twisted reality..

[_-john-_]

John seeing as youve done a lot of talking through 8 pages, which i skipped as i was fed up of reading alot of your bullsh*t let me ask you a simple question, what religion do you believe in?

Your arguing for a religion which to tbh, do you really think they would give a flying f**k who you are?.... answers NO my freind. Not all, but the majority of muslims, are infact RACIST. As many have said, they have no respect for this country or this countries rules.

They are quick enough to slag off this nation, but are also quick enough to use our free health service, our free education etc. What have they done for us? apart from a small majority, they have brought hate into this country.

The burning of the poppies, racist as i may sound, id wished the EDL or NF had got hold of those racist cunts (excuse the language) and taught them a valuable lesson, how would they like it, if we went round burning something significant in their country?

Stupid or not mate, you need to see the reality of it, they couldnt give a fuck who you are let alown any of us, your just another muppet sticking up for a bunch of wronguns. Your just another asshole living under Camerons & the rest of the goverments spell. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Haha, you retarded, snivelling piece of fucking scum. Bad bad racist bastard, fuck off.

Wow. Another uneducated idiot in this thread believing the word of the Daily Mail, and actually has no basic clue on British politics..

Absolutely this.

I agree with this comment.

But my personal comment is backed up by that statement.
Basically we have moved on and acknowledged our mistakes. The "holy land" still thinks its the middle ages and that the western world is evil. Theyre still holding a grudge for the crusades and now that theyve seen the window is open to "invade" the minority of extremists are seizing every opportunity they get.

Crusades were many moons ago, but our governments ongoing support of the invasion and capitolisation of the middle east is happening as we speak.

This threads gotten ridiculous, utter numpties left, right and centre.