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View Full Version : Maxi... Kitcar... S1600?


Colin
10th January 2011, 19:05
Wrote this myself, so maybe not 100% accurate! Thought while im bored I would write something to define our cars in Motorsport and differentiate the "Kitcars" from the "Super 1600s" from the "Maxis" ;) Ill stress this is all my interpretation of the rules and my own research etc.

Background

Formula 2 was a Rally class built by the FIA to use 2WD, naturally aspirated road going homologated cars, essentially the cars used were called “kitcars”, due the nature that you could literally buy a kit from the Manufacturer and build yourself a rally car. Many manufacturers got involved, examples being Seat, Renault, Citroen, Peugeot, Ford and Skoda.

The rules, in a nut shell meant anything goes modification wise, up to 2.0L engine capacity. The manufacturers would have to homologate the rally counterpart cars in order to compete. Formula 2 in itself is a playing field for Engineers, finding loopholes in the rules and pushing the envelope of tuning and cost. It ultimately went the same way as the Group B cars.

Super 1600 is a class made by the FIA in 2001 designed for 1600cc cars. These were restricted in a few ways: power, gearbox and weight. A 60mm single throttle body was only allowed and the weight was capped at 930kg less drivers. A sequential gearbox had to be used instead of the H pattern found in a Kitcar. This was designed to reduce costs.

Now ill talk about the difference between a Saxo Kitcar/106 Maxi (F2 rules) and a Super 1600.

At first, there was a 106 "kitcar". This was based on an S1 shell, standard width track and the engine used a 1600 8v, reportedly having circa 170bhp. This was Peugeots learning curve for the 106 Maxi, which was a full on Formula 2 car using the 1600 16v engine on individual throttle bodies and wide tracked. Maxi literally meaning “maxing the rules”. The engine had between 200-220bhp depending on year of evolution, reportedly making 238bhp when an ex works car came from France to England. When Super 1600 rules came in, Peugeot axed the 106 and built the 206 Super 1600 for a dedicated program. The Maxi was updated by a few people using a sequential box, but it has no real place of competition in an FIA backed event.

The Saxo Kitcar was built in the 90s and used individual throttle bodies and had circa 210bhp. The car limited the F2 rules as did the 106 Maxi, odd for a 1600cc car as Citroen had the ZX and later, the Xsara, and Peugeot had the 306 Maxi, both 2000cc. When Formula 2 was axed by the FIA, the Saxo Kitcar had no where to go and rally, so Citroen simply updated the Saxo Kitcar to Super 1600 spec, such differences in the induction system, gearbox, suspension and exhaust. Identical cars on the outside, but very different on the inside. The engine however still made similar power to that of the Kitcar. Citroen then dropped the Saxo and built the C2 to Super 1600 regulations.

Ill finally add, the only thing standard on these cars were probably the badges!

Saxo Kitcar:

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q305/Col-Rally/Random/saxo-kit-car_5.jpg

Saxo S1600:

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q305/Col-Rally/Random/Saxomaxienginebay-1.jpg

Thanks for reading!

dougieph2
10th January 2011, 19:07
good write up

mark1311
10th January 2011, 20:22
am sure this has been asked befor on here ect so sorry if am been a noob, the saxo s1600/maxi that pushed 210+ bhp, and was limited to the single tb, what was done to these engines to get such heigh power figures from an NA engine? major head work, lightened and forged bottom end? very wild cams? something like maybe ph5 cams? very good exhaust?

also is the tb spoken about the one you have colin in whats it worth?

Colin
10th January 2011, 20:49
I dont the the exact spec, but the engines were a "high rev" short compression height slipper piston, longer rods, steel crank. Headwork must of been perfect to compliment the mad cams, again not sure on exact spec. The inlet/exhaust would of been tuned together, pulse tuning is the key. The exhaust would of been designed to work with the overlap of the cams etc etc. Peak power was made at about 8500rpm on a Kitcar and revved to 9k.

Thats why they are a "kit" because if you bolt x and y together, you get z. Even the ECU map was a generic "tarmac" map or "gravel" map.

Dont forget the saxo was never a "maxi" ;) haha.

Yes that Peugeot Inlet I have is off a 206 S1600 a 2001 model when they first released it and phased out the 106 F2 car. Not sure what its worth to be honest, fair wedge id imagine.

Its Citroen and a factory, and even goverment backed team. Extensive development would happen countless of times to achieve the right performance. Hell... the C2 S1600s now are on 230+ bhp on a single body!

benkelsall
10th January 2011, 21:35
was there never a spec list for the saxo/106 released?
must be one somewhere lol

good write up too Colin.

Colin
10th January 2011, 22:01
I have the build manuals, but they dont go into too much detail about specifics lol.

Mochachino
10th January 2011, 22:38
Ive got the parts and part number in a PDF file for these. Aswell as the C2s and other minor specced competition models. Things like the suspension lb and length are all on there. But not so much detail about the engine irc, been a while since ive looked at it.

Colin
11th January 2011, 09:49
Ah yes just looking through them now, it does state the poundage and torsion bar size for gravel/tarmac/wet tarmac etc

solvi
3rd February 2011, 21:49
nice one colin..

still missing the t4 spcec with 4wd saxo
and the groupN derivate "cup AND chalange" cARS.

AND MORE..

THANKS for posting so good info..

THE PORTUGUESE CUP VERSION:

specific " trofeu" cams..
be3 close ratio and plate ZF lsd
BILSTEIN front struts with camber.....-3.6
matter cage

axsaxoman
4th February 2011, 15:04
the best of the maxi /kit cars citreon/pug did had a differnt ex manifold than shown in the pictures,came over the gear box --very long primaries it also made 225-230@9400rpm and was matched with a 6 speed sequential box ,but not for us normal mortals --engine rebuilds every 2-3000kms

solvi
4th February 2011, 15:23
look at the brake masters....how thew the put the bias masters cilinder there??

axsaxoman
14th February 2011, 14:56
dead easy on a left hand drive --no crappy cross linkage to take way the effort and add stiction into the linkage
you want a good bias set-up --go l/h/d --thats one reason why we raced the ax sport --already l/h/d and was 1294cc -and not an axgt

solvi
14th February 2011, 23:17
dead easy on a left hand drive --no crappy cross linkage to take way the effort and add stiction into the linkage
you want a good bias set-up --go l/h/d --thats one reason why we raced the ax sport --already l/h/d and was 1294cc -and not an axgt

right and drive have linkage to servo ond rigght side??

axsaxoman
14th February 2011, 23:59
master cylinder on r/hd car is in same place as l/h/d .but with linkage from rght hand side to it --thats why the brakes are much worse on r/h/d car ,even in std form
also you get bettercorner balance weights in car with driver on left ,due to g/box being on that side ,so driver and g/box are nearer the wieght of engine on other side-- unless you are a fat person that is

jpsaxo
17th February 2011, 20:47
I have the build manuals, but they dont go into too much detail about specifics lol.

So do i ;) ;) lol

Colin
17th February 2011, 22:05
Haha true, I got the C2 and the Maxi ones now too.

Found out what spec kitcar cams are:

Inlet: 12.80 mm, duration 302 degrees

Exhaust: 12.90 mm, duration 295 degrees

MaRiO89
7th March 2011, 23:29
Great write up Colin! :)