Reasonable trading...

[Ashleyp]

This morning i thought i'd have a little read through a few of the scammer info threads. One thing i noticed that some members get 'abused' because they've started a thread for not having recieved an item in a certain time period. There are many other examples too of threads where somethings got lost in the post, refunds weren't given, items haven't been sent blah blah.

so, what are you views on what makes a reasonable trade?

How long should a buyer have to wait to recieve an item?

i know it's a buyers responsibility to see if a seller is legit etc, but sometimes sellers are legit members but not sellers it seems?

are illegitimate exuses acceptable for you? such as... "ive been busy so can't post". "i haven't been online in a week so haven't contacted you", "i've got other issues" etc...

IMO, don't take the cash unless youre willing to post the item within a day or two, if not, state a date youre able to post. (bare in mind, i'm not an impatient buyer and have waited over a week without fuss). I know there are some obvious differences, but you wouldn't accept waiting 2 or 3 weeks to recieve something from a reputable shop, so why is it ok here?

just to note; it has no real relevance to me, just curious.

discuss.

[rey]

IMO two weeks is enough time to wait for something to turn up.

After two weeks is when I'd start making a fuss, not before IMO


EDIT:
The royal mail wont take any claims for lost post etc before 15 days, so yeah two weeks seems reasonable to me.

[Piggie]

I nearly started one of these! Ive been thinking this myself having read the thread about Munkyboy, Sam and ezbz.
I understand people wanting something quick at the end of the day they wouldnt buy it if it wasnt needed!
But patience is needed. If your buying from Tesco you want it immediantly because there a plc and are worth billions. But cmon if your buying from somebody who is breaking their own car then packing and sending it all themselves it is going to be instant is it???
I think a week for delivery and after 2 days late THEN you have a right to be angry/worried.
Obv this will change dependent on time of year (winter etc)

EDIT: I meant a week after payment for delivery

[J222JRA]

Personally i reckon allowing a week for delivery is about right......anything longer than than and the seller should make the buyer aware before paying.

Main thing that grinds my gears about the scammer section is the amount of members who posts crap in each thread thinking they are the saxp police. Mods dont always post in the threads but we are always looking and checking whats going on......so digging through 10 pages of utter shite from members who havent had any dealings with the 'suspected scammer' is bloody annoying.

My mini rant for the day over/

[Piggie]

Personally i reckon allowing a week for delivery is about right......anything longer than than and the seller should make the buyer aware before paying.

Main thing that grinds my gears about the scammer section is the amount of members who posts crap in each thread thinking they are the saxp police. Mods dont always post in the threads but we are always looking and checking whats going on......so digging through 10 pages of utter shite from members who havent had any dealings with the 'suspected scammer' is bloody annoying.

My mini rant for the day over/

Here lies the solution!!! Form a saxperience police to come and arrest people for being a scammer lmao :fcuk:
and whilst your at it a team of officers for people who have insurance thats wrong we all know what people on here think of that!!!!

Lol some people just like to moan................

[Ashleyp]

IMO two weeks is enough time to wait for something to turn up.

After two weeks is when I'd start making a fuss, not before IMO


EDIT:
The royal mail wont take any claims for lost post etc before 15 days, so yeah two weeks seems reasonable to me.

I'm inclined to agree. between 1 and 2 weeks is, although not ideal, acceptable.

if you need something next day, buy OEM from citroen / whomever.

however, a problem that seems to occur is the seller stating "i will post within 2 days" and then not doing it. To me, thats where it becomes unreasonable trading.

I myself have had to post a couple of days later than expected due to being busy with work etc, but not once have i stated "i'll send next day" and then not done it.

james, i can sympathise with your post too. Whilst i've posted in that thread a few times, i can understand how annoying it is to sift through 8 pages or more of crap.

[Ashleyp]

Another question i've just added to the OP:

are illegitimate exuses acceptable for you? such as... "ive been busy so can't post". "i haven't been online in a week so haven't contacted you", "i've got other issues" etc...

i can understand people can't post immediately (as per my previous post), but if youre willing to take the cash from someone, then be willing to post the item.

[Sophia_Bush]

usually when I post stuff I will tell them next available day on x delivery with tracking if any longer I tell them

[Paul]

Completely agree with you Ashley.

I sell a few parts on here now and then. Its amazing how many people pm me panicking if they haven't recieved the item within 1 day. No exaggeration there either.

Few weeks ago i sold something at night, about 8/9pm.. i got a text the next morning, about 11am "Have you posted blahblahblah yet?". Joker. Can't remember who it is, they should have a text off me saying "lol." though.

[Viper]

The seller should make every effort to keep the buyer informed. There will be cases though where the buyer gets impatient.

As James said though, there are a lot of people who go in the scammer threads just to poke their nose in which doesn't help anyone!

If a delivery time is stated then it should be adhered to unless the buyer is notified of changes.

It's all common sense really but unfortunately these days Britain seems to be severely lacking in it

Edit: Re: excuses. Not acceptable. If they make a commitment to sell something then they should get it sorted.
"Being busy" isn't a suitable reason imo.

[Paul]

ps.

I think 1 week is an acceptable time to wait.

After one week if i hadn't heard anything i'd drop them a nice/polite pm just to remind them.

After two weeks i'd start threatening with paypal dispute, if they didnt reply within a couple days i'd open a paypal dispute and put a thread up / bad iTrader (*which more of saxpers need to start using!*). If they had a legitimate excuse i'd give them another week and ask for a tracking number.

I'm abit of a realist, i understand people are busy and posting items aren't everyones number one priority in the real world. Especially when alot of people have alot more important real life issues. My brothers notoriously bad for posting items he works 6 days a week. A couple members have had problems with him, i've always helped out if he gets 'a bit behind'. I tend to often ask him now if he needs anything posting.

[Viper]

That's a good point Paul. From the thread that I saw yesterday we may as well not have the iTrader system.

It's there to help protect the members but even those who complain about being scammed etc have said they dont use it :S

[Furio-Gazza]

When i send parts/bits i tell them the day its been picked up from mine & when its expected to be at theres, i also give the person who bought the part the tracker number so they can keep an eye on it iff they wish :y:

[WheresMeNuts]

I'm on the FS/FT all the time,but in truth I would never buy on here unless seller had around 40+ Feedbacks & also been on here for at least 2 years.
I prefer to buy elsewhere due to the amount of fakes on here & in truth Mods don't do enough to protect the honest members.

[Paul]

in truth Mods don't do enough to protect the honest members.

:wall:

[Ashleyp]

I'm on the FS/FT all the time,but in truth I would never buy on here unless seller had around 40+ Feedbacks & also been on here for at least 2 years.
I prefer to buy elsewhere due to the amount of fakes on here & in truth Mods don't do enough to protect the honest members.

If you can find any form of written text from simo that states moderators are responsible for buyers / sellers, then this point would be valid.

But you won't find any...

which is fair enough. mods do block scammers for sale threads / ban them etc. as Viper said, got to use a wee bit of common sense every now and again.

EDIT: saying that, as in my OP, legitimate member doesnt = legitimate seller.

[Furio-Gazza]

I can't fault the mods in the for sale & wanted threads, they do a good job in there

[Viper]

in truth Mods don't do enough to protect the honest members.

Not jumping at you but could you elaborate on that? What do you expect the moderators to do?

[GolfJay]

Not jumping at you but could you elaborate on that? What do you expect the moderators to do?

Go to the home of each seller and check that they have the item before allowing them to start the thread :homme:

[Psycho18]

we need to make the itrader more noticeable.

I don't even know where it is or how to get to it to give people feedback.

[chinkostu]

I've waited a few weeks for a wing. the guy gave me plenty of notice and let me know along the way, so i wasn't too bothered.

if you need it asap, go collect it!

[Viper]

we need to make the itrader more noticeable.

I don't even know where it is or how to get to it to give people feedback.

You've used it twice? :detective:

[Psycho18]

You've used it twice? :detective:

That was linking to it with members with scores already. How to when they have no feedback yet?

[Viper]

Go to their profile and there are a few tabs: Visitor messages, 'About Me', Statistics etc

At the far end of that is an iTrader tab. Click on 'View all feedback' and you can view all their previous feedback and there's an option to leave feedback :y:

[Furio-Gazza]

after every sale i do i just say can you give me an itrader score please, its at the bottom off my user page

[Tommo87]

I buy from a place in the states and I've waited over 6 weeks for stuff to arrive and I've not complained yet as it always arrives.

[devilsadvocate]

Anything up to a week unless the buyer states it's going to be longer.

You have to take into account several factors when buying something though

Did you buy it on a weekend? If so, not likely to be posted until Monday

Most people have a job? I work (unlike a few people) so could post something I could easily carry, at lunchtime but anything bigger would be difficult unless I had it collected by courier in the evening

Which postal service did you pay for? If it's next day then I would give two days for posting (being generous) and expect the item on day number three.

If I sell something, I would ensure I posted it within two working days (mon-fri) or recieving payment.

Everyone is busy with work and other things but someone has paid you for an item, it's your responsibility to post it within a reasonable time!.

If you have issues, tell the buyer about the delay and explain why.

I would wait two weeks before starting a scammer thread though assuming I had emailed the buyer a few times and not got a response etc

[J222JRA]

I'm on the FS/FT all the time,but in truth I would never buy on here unless seller had around 40+ Feedbacks & also been on here for at least 2 years.
I prefer to buy elsewhere due to the amount of fakes on here & in truth Mods don't do enough to protect the honest members.

I swear comments like this really get on my tits.

I wonder how people survive in the real world without people to hold their hands everytime they do something.

I hate to say but the problems people have could be stopped if people had a slight bit of common sense. Forums have had issues with scammers for years......on no end of occasions people have been given pointers on how to protect themselves. Yet almost every scammer thread i read still people pay via paypal gift instead of paying a few £££ in fees.


If i was simo id just get rid of the for sale section and tell people to trade via ebay or other forums. This ends the problem once and for all.

[Ashleyp]

I buy from a place in the states and I've waited over 6 weeks for stuff to arrive and I've not complained yet as it always arrives.

bit different though if buying from a company?

i've ordered from america before and it's come pretty quick in a week or so. i'd have happily waited longer if needs be though

Anything up to a week unless the buyer states it's going to be longer.

You have to take into account several factors when buying something though

Did you buy it on a weekend? If so, not likely to be posted until Monday

Most people have a job? I work (unlike a few people) so could post something I could easily carry, at lunchtime but anything bigger would be difficult unless I had it collected by courier in the evening

Which postal service did you pay for? If it's next day then I would give two days for posting (being generous) and expect the item on day number three.

If I sell something, I would ensure I posted it within two working days (mon-fri) or recieving payment.

Everyone is busy with work and other things but someone has paid you for an item, it's your responsibility to post it within a reasonable time!.

If you have issues, tell the buyer about the delay and explain why.

I would wait two weeks before starting a scammer thread though assuming I had emailed the buyer a few times and not got a response etc

Spot on.

sums up my opinions perfectly.

yeah, everyone has issues / work etc. but if you don't have the time to post it, then don't take peoples cash until you can...

anything after a few days after payment is recieved is a bit of a joke.

[Mochachino]

Mods don't do enough to protect the honest members.

Do you think Mods are super human? How is a mod meant to be able to tell if a sale is legit before hand? Do you reply on the mods to tell you if a sale is legit or not? Mods are normal poeple like the people that get scammed, but it seems they have alot more common sense than a normal member. Seems yourself has no common sense and needs someone to whipe your arse for you.

[Piggie]

I swear comments like this really get on my tits.

I wonder how people survive in the real world without people to hold their hands everytime they do something.

I hate to say but the problems people have could be stopped if people had a slight bit of common sense. Forums have had issues with scammers for years......on no end of occasions people have been given pointers on how to protect themselves. Yet almost every scammer thread i read still people pay via paypal gift instead of paying a few £££ in fees.


If i was simo id just get rid of the for sale section and tell people to trade via ebay or other forums. This ends the problem once and for all.

For regular members to say it i could understand you being pissed but when you have SUPER MODERATOR in your name im afraid noobs are going to think you can help.

Dont want the hassle dont take on the job.

BUT! you are right people have to realise that if you buy from a website of any kind your taking a risk. Especially when its a person you dont know anything about etc.

[Gandi699]

I think a few courtesy PMs or texts from some sellers wouldnt be bad. You know like: "I posted it today, tracking number is xxxxx" or "sorry mate been really busy, will get it out to you on such and such a date". I generally try and scan in my reciepts and send them to the buyer of the items and I'd urge others to do the same as it only takes 5 minutes and you can email them over.
Not a fool proof solution though as with the scammer "Tisandy" all I ever got was bullshit from him via text and PM saying how the items had been posted and he'd had "problems" with deliveries. No further explanation was made

[Saxo-KidNI]

2 weeks then i will start asking questions unless stated to be longer

[Ashleyp]

I think a few courtesy PMs or texts from some sellers wouldnt be bad. You know like: "I posted it today, tracking number is xxxxx" or "sorry mate been really busy, will get it out to you on such and such a date". I generally try and scan in my reciepts and send them to the buyer of the items and I'd urge others to do the same as it only takes 5 minutes and you can email them over.
Not a fool proof solution though as with the scammer "Tisandy" all I ever got was bullshit from him via text and PM saying how the items had been posted and he'd had "problems" with deliveries. No further explanation was made

This raises another point regarding time management.

i've noticed members writing essays in the scam section as to why they haven't had the time to post the item or issue a refund etc.

if you have the time to write that amount on a forum, you have time to refund peoples money.

[Gandi699]

This raises another point regarding time management.

i've noticed members writing essays in the scam section as to why they haven't had the time to post the item or issue a refund etc.

if you have the time to write that amount on a forum, you have time to refund peoples money.

I agree with that but I'm also willing to accept an explanation as to why an item hasnt arrived too, problems can arise. If something has happened a PM or text only takes a few minutes

[Viper]

For regular members to say it i could understand you being pissed but when you have SUPER MODERATOR in your name im afraid noobs are going to think you can help.

Dont want the hassle dont take on the job.

BUT! you are right people have to realise that if you buy from a website of any kind your taking a risk. Especially when its a person you dont know anything about etc.

The moderators are there to stop shit being posted on the forums and keep general order, not to babysit retards.

[Hatcha]

Really you should post the item within 1 or 2 days after receiving payment. I've only ever sent something late once, it was about 4 days after being payed, but i text the lad and asked if it wasn't a problem, which it wasn't.
Also for both people in a transaction, its only good manners to keep in contact whilst the item is being sent if needs be.

[Piggie]

The moderators are there to stop shit being posted on the forums and keep general order, not to babysit retards.

Which i said i understood.
But take me for example when i first joined here it was the first forum id ever been on.
I had a very good look around and by doing so found out what to do and not to do.
I found out what the moderators did on my own but those who dont know are going to ask for help.

Like i said if you dont want 'retards' to ask you stupid questions dont take on a role of Super Moderator/ Moderator.
Im not saying its ok to hassle mods im just saying maybe they should consider why they get hassled.
It is really wrong to asssume someone who has Super in his name might be able to help you???

[Ryan]

The moderators are there to stop shit being posted on the forums and keep general order, not to babysit retards.

I swear some people think we are here to wipe their arses for them though.

We've implemented a new system over the last year or two with the 100posts/30 days till acces.

Have a nice set of rules for people to read (yet they constantly ignore them and expect us to magically get their money back).

There's no helping some people, and I fail to see why staff should spend countless hours sorting shit when the forum user didn't bother to protect themselves. The police have the power to hunt down users and deal with fraud not us.

[Furio-Gazza]

I swear some people think we are here to wipe their arses for them though.

We've implemented a new system over the last year or two with the 100posts/30 days till acces.

Have a nice set of rules for people to read (yet they constantly ignore them and expect us to magically get their money back).

There's no helping some people, and I fail to see why staff should spend countless hours sorting shit when the forum user didn't bother to protect themselves. The police have the power to hunt down users and deal with fraud not us.

+1, i dont get where theres a problem, everytime i sell parts i always check to see if there online alot, have a decent post count and maybe itrader points,
if they dont they collect the part, or they dont have any off them things i like to look out for & they cba collect i wont bother with the sale n wait till the right buyer comes along,
if your unsure about a person and them buying or selling dont go ahead with it, simples really

[Mr_X]

Its too much agro to sell on here, the buyers can be a pain in the arse.

In the end I would only sell if collected and for cash.


I fail to see how the mods can do anything more, they are just regular people. Its not like they have access to the police information/crime system. :S

[Viper]

People seem to see the moderators as someone to fall back on when their own ignorance fails them. If they use more common sense in the first place then they won't need to go to the moderators.

Piggie, I understand where you're coming from about the moderators being someone to turn to, because you're right, however as I said above, more common sense and people won't have to.

[Jay_]

I usually allow a week for delivery, but I do allow a few more days depending on the size of the package and if I am in Bristol or the IOM. In the IOM I allow 10days then start wondering. Bristol I expect it within a week!

When posting I usually package stuff up straight away and have it out the door the next day!

[Piggie]

People seem to see the moderators as someone to fall back on when their own ignorance fails them. If they use more common sense in the first place then they won't need to go to the moderators.

Piggie, I understand where you're coming from about the moderators being someone to turn to, because you're right, however as I said above, more common sense and people won't have to.

You talk alot of sense for a man from Yorkshire. thought everyone up there was a farmer :P

[Viper]

I am ;)

[Ryan]

I am ;)

Just because you fondle farm animals it doesn't mean you are a farmer.

[Viper]

Oh :(

I thought that's what they do? I always see farmers with their hands up cow arses!

[Ryan]

Oh :(

I thought that's what they do? I always see farmers with their hands up cow arses!

You missed a chance to make a welsh+sheep gag, I'm disappointed.

[Viper]

You missed a chance to make a welsh+sheep gag, I'm disappointed.

Nah that would be generalising. I would never do something like that. Even to the bloody Welsh.

Backwards bastards.

[Piggie]

Nah that would be generalising. I would never do something like that. Even to the bloody Welsh.

Backwards bastards.

NO NO NO an itellectual farmer from yorkshire is alot more backwards than a standard welsh man. As odd as they are.................

[Viper]

Justification is needed!

I rang a welsh company last week asking for an email or fax number to send an order confirmation. "ooh no we don't use those round here..."

I'd have more luck ringing bloody Basra :S

[WheresMeNuts]

Not jumping at you but could you elaborate on that? What do you expect the moderators to do?
I see lots of fake stuff on the FS/FT & I never see a Mod asking for proof of said items like a photo with user name & date on the photo.

Some Members openly sell fake goods on here as well & Mods should ask the seller for proof of Authentic,like a Receipt or certificate for stuff like "Links of London" bracelets,Pandora etc etc where the seller is saying they are real or he/she believes they are real.

Also rules state it would be in your interest to get the buyers phone number,but would be better if it read (along the lines) it's in the buyers interest to get the sellers Lan-line number & make contact before paying if not 100% comfortable with sale for extra peace of mind.
Maybe explain in the rules the difference between Paypal GIFT & Paypal GOODS with regards to protection.


If you can find any form of written text from simo that states moderators are responsible for buyers / sellers, then this point would be valid.

But you won't find any...

which is fair enough. mods do block scammers for sale threads / ban them etc. as Viper said, got to use a wee bit of common sense every now and again.

EDIT: saying that, as in my OP, legitimate member doesnt = legitimate seller.I understand that it's not the Mods fault if someone gets scammed,but I would like to think that the Mods would like to make it harder for scammers & protect honest members more & so if adding extra security like a photo with said item & user name & date along with lan-line number then so be it.
I know lots of members will think this is way OTT for a sale,but ask the guy who lost £50 on here for the phones that never turned up & the seller already had a 1 sale = 1 NEG to his name & from what I remember is still not banned.

You also say "legitimate member doesn't = legitimate seller",but you can also say legitimate member = legitimate buyer who is not clued-up on buying & so is more open to being scammed more than you or myself.


we need to make the itrader more noticeable.

I don't even know where it is or how to get to it to give people feedback.Very good point.


I swear comments like this really get on my tits.

I wonder how people survive in the real world without people to hold their hands everytime they do something.

I hate to say but the problems people have could be stopped if people had a slight bit of common sense. Forums have had issues with scammers for years......on no end of occasions people have been given pointers on how to protect themselves. Yet almost every scammer thread i read still people pay via paypal gift instead of paying a few £££ in fees.


If i was simo id just get rid of the for sale section and tell people to trade via ebay or other forums. This ends the problem once and for all.My comment is not aimed at any given Mod or even at any member,but to just say it's down to common sense is not going to make the gullible/naive buyer sensible.
If the FS/FT can be tightened up & made much harder for the Scammers then I & others would buy more confidently on this site & that can only be an added bonus to Saxs.
I'm sure 1 or 2 chosen members would patrol the FS/FT if Mods gave them the tools to delete or Lock threads that the seller can't provide extra info that is required like receipt or certificate to prove the said goods are Authentic.Or the seller can show a photo of the expensive item with his user name & date on it.

Do you think Mods are super human? How is a mod meant to be able to tell if a sale is legit before hand? Do you reply on the mods to tell you if a sale is legit or not? Mods are normal poeple like the people that get scammed, but it seems they have alot more common sense than a normal member. Seems yourself has no common sense and needs someone to whipe your arse for you.
If you would like to add your knowledge to the debate feel free...........


I swear some people think we are here to wipe their arses for them though.

We've implemented a new system over the last year or two with the 100posts/30 days till acces.

Have a nice set of rules for people to read (yet they constantly ignore them and expect us to magically get their money back).

There's no helping some people, and I fail to see why staff should spend countless hours sorting shit when the forum user didn't bother to protect themselves. The police have the power to hunt down users and deal with fraud not us.Ryan,you have to accept like I do that buying on-line is never going to be 100% safe,but you also have to accept that improvements can be made & if that means extra staff then why not.You can add helpers for free to tighten up the FS/FT as I'm sure you know a few members on here who you can trust to run it professionally.

The FS/FT has become a Spamming dream for members who post ebay item numbers & yet in the rules this is not allowed.
I know yourself & the other Mods are busy & the last thing you want to do is going running around threads all day long,but if you have rules in place then members should be following them.

Like I said earlier this is not myself having a dig at anyone & understand that being a Mod you have enough on your plate,but you could have a few Helpers patrol that section & would make Saxs an even better & safer site for members like myself who would buy/sell more.

[Mochachino]

Never heard so much shit tbh.

Do you live in a care home?
Who do you blame when you stub your toe or get a papercut?
Are you 10 years old living with your parents?
How do you get by each day?
Have you got any common sense?

I cant imagine anyone being how your posts represent you, having to be told everything. Seems like you just need someone to blame if anything goes wrong.

[Viper]

I'm sure 1 or 2 chosen members would patrol the FS/FT if Mods gave them the tools to delete or Lock threads

Forum Section moderators are around :y:

Fuck knows if they do anything though

[Mochachino]

Also, you are basically saying you havnt got what it takes to be a mod on a car forum lol you make it sound like all mods have special training in being detectives for scammers. Theyre normal people, why dont you just do what everyone else does and check the seller out and take precautions before the transaction? How do you get on with using eBay, if you get scammed do you phone eBay and ask why they let someone sell him something?

If you bought a TV in a box from a carboot or market store then got home just to find a few bricks in it, who would you blame? The car manufactuer for selling the car to someone scamming?

I cant imagine you having any responsibility what so ever in your life.

really gets on my tits how thick some people can be.

[Mochachino]

Forum Section moderators are around :y:

Fuck knows if they do anything though

Couse they do! But saxp isnt a full time job for them, I doubt any of them have the time to go through every single thread, check the seller actually has the 30+ items some people sell, then check the sellers email address in google, facebook etc and then check the google results. Then check his previous threads any other forums he's on.

Even from doing all that you cant be sure theyre a genuine seller or get any adress or contact details for security of your transaction. But then people will pay by gift and blame the mods lol or if they do get scammed blame the mods still.

[Mochachino]

I see lots of fake stuff on the FS/FT & I never see a Mod asking for proof of said items like a photo with user name & date on the photo.

then you are a fool for not asking approipriate questions before you buy. If you are aware there are fakes, ask or check before? If you are confident its legit then recive it to be fake dispute on paypal..or just dont do the transaction.


Some Members openly sell fake goods on here as well & Mods should ask the seller for proof of Authentic,like a Receipt or certificate for stuff like "Links of London" bracelets,Pandora etc etc where the seller is saying they are real or he/she believes they are real.

Why should the mod do this for you if you know yourself what to do?

Also rules state it would be in your interest to get the buyers phone number,but would be better if it read (along the lines) it's in the buyers interest to get the sellers Lan-line number & make contact before paying if not 100% comfortable with sale for extra peace of mind.
Maybe explain in the rules the difference between Paypal GIFT & Paypal GOODS with regards to protection.

Common sense, do people really need to be told. Its like educating people that scammer exist in the world.


I understand that it's not the Mods fault if someone gets scammed,but I would like to think that the Mods would like to make it harder for scammers & protect honest members more & so if adding extra security like a photo with said item & user name & date along with lan-line number then so be it.
I know lots of members will think this is way OTT for a sale,but ask the guy who lost £50 on here for the phones that never turned up & the seller already had a 1 sale = 1 NEG to his name & from what I remember is still not banned.

Mods dont see ervy single neg feedback..its there for the members to see. If you see neg you take precautions or avoid. Again common sense.


My comment is not aimed at any given Mod or even at any member,but to just say it's down to common sense is not going to make the gullible/naive buyer sensible.
If the FS/FT can be tightened up & made much harder for the Scammers then I & others would buy more confidently on this site & that can only be an added bonus to Saxs.


What can a mod do which any normal member cant? theyre not trained detectives.


Ryan,you have to accept like I do that buying on-line is never going to be 100% safe,but you also have to accept that improvements can be made & if that means extra staff then why not.You can add helpers for free to tighten up the FS/FT as I'm sure you know a few members on here who you can trust to run it professionally.

How can they make things tighter then and safer?

The FS/FT has become a Spamming dream for members who post ebay item numbers & yet in the rules this is not allowed.
I know yourself & the other Mods are busy & the last thing you want to do is going running around threads all day long,but if you have rules in place then members should be following them.

If its on eBay then buy through ebay and you have more protection, if it goes wrong its nothing to do with saxp. Why does an eBay link offend you? A mod will only see it if it gets reported, the time it takes to go through every thread, and then the poster can edit it too..

Like I said earlier this is not myself having a dig at anyone & understand that being a Mod you have enough on your plate,but you could have a few Helpers patrol that section & would make Saxs an even better & safer site for members like myself who would buy/sell more.

Maybe some saxpmembers can volenteer to go round your house and hold your hand?

[WheresMeNuts]

db_sax,I'm not sure if your a troll or someone who is trying to come across as intelligent.
Your points are all nonsense & you obviously don't have a clue what your talking about.
Does AVForums or HUKD's agree with you & they are the 2 leaders in FS/FT...that in it's self proves your all nonsense.
Your 40iT scores means nothing & because you have not been scammed does not mean someone behind you will also not be scammed.

Keep all your Tuff-talk for a kid around your own age as your making yourself sound like a primary school bully.

You also forgot to say that when buying on ebay your 100% protected,but on here your not.....think before you speak.

[Mochachino]

db_sax,I'm not sure if your a troll or someone who is trying to come across as intelligent.
Your points are all nonsense & you obviously don't have a clue what your talking about.
Does AVForums or HUKD's agree with you & they are the 2 leaders in FS/FT...that in it's self proves your all nonsense.
Your 40iT scores means nothing & because you have not been scammed does not mean someone behind you will also not be scammed.

Keep all your Tuff-talk for a kid around your own age as your making yourself sound like a primary school bully.

You also forgot to say that when buying on ebay your 100% protected,but on here your not.....think before you speak.

No im not a troll, and no im not trying to come accross intelligent. Im stating the obvious which you fail to see. for you to even interpret what I say as someone trying to act intelligent shows how unintelligent you actually are. A person with common sense would read all that and think 'er state the obvious'.

If my iTrader means nothing then why use that as a factor for buying off neg traders previously? why say true point to people not using itrader being a bad thing? Take it all away and fail to see people with neg5 trader and increase risks of being scammed.

Tuff talk? again, 'state the obvious common sense talk'. If you call that tough talk then you clearly havent heard tough talk, that is some seriously low standard of tuff talk lol. You probably get offended by someone calling you dumbo.

How are you 100% protected on eBay but not here? Scams happen constantly on eBay,fakes are sold on eBay, so no you are not 100% protected.

eBay and paypal are run along side each other. They have very similar dispute systems in place. If you use saxp transactions and use paypal goods then you are as protected as on eBay but only have the process once rather than the eBay dispute system then the paypal one as a back up.

You are very naive.

[Mochachino]

Keep all your Tuff-talk for a kid around your own age as your making yourself sound like a primary school bully.



If thats the case then id rather do transactions with primary school kids by your books as they seem to have a higher level of common sense than what you do. Keep all your neivity talk for your pre school pals.

Also FYI I have had an attempted scam tried on me before and took the precautions any other member can take and use systems in place that are available to anyone else. Ive had to use dispute systems times before as both a seller and a buyer and always won my case.

[jonathon5]

Some people are just prolific thread starters in the scammers section.

It appears every deal one person does ends up in the scammers section, as everything they buy never turns up , or does not turn up within 24 hrs.

Unrealistic

[WheresMeNuts]

No im not a troll, and no im not trying to come accross intelligent. Im stating the obvious which you fail to see. for you to even interpret what I say as someone trying to act intelligent shows how unintelligent you actually are. A person with common sense would read all that and think 'er state the obvious'.

If my iTrader means nothing then why use that as a factor for buying off neg traders previously? why say true point to people not using itrader being a bad thing? Take it all away and fail to see people with neg5 trader and increase risks of being scammed.

Tuff talk? again, 'state the obvious common sense talk'. If you call that tough talk then you clearly havent heard tough talk, that is some seriously low standard of tuff talk lol. You probably get offended by someone calling you dumbo.

How are you 100% protected on eBay but not here? Scams happen constantly on eBay,fakes are sold on eBay, so no you are not 100% protected.

eBay and paypal are run along side each other. They have very similar dispute systems in place. If you use saxp transactions and use paypal goods then you are as protected as on eBay but only have the process once rather than the eBay dispute system then the paypal one as a back up.

You are very naive.

If it's obvious for everyone then how come people all over the Net get scammed on a daily basis ?
Just because you have not been scammed does not mean everything on this site is bullet-proof & if adding photos etc makes it more secure then I don't see why that seems to upset you.
The reason I mentioned your iT scores is because you come across as a few members do, that if you use common sense then you will not be scammed,but in truth that's not the case.

On ebay your protected if using paypal as 99% of buyers do & so are protected the moment you buy.On here you have the seller wanting paid by paypal Gift & yes I know the buyer can just pay the extra fee's,but again some buyers are not clued-up enough to do this & do as the seller asks.

No use in saying it's the buyers fault for him being naive,stupid,gullible etc when the buyer has been scammed as that will not get him his money back.


If thats the case then id rather do transactions with primary school kids by your books as they seem to have a higher level of common sense than what you do. Keep all your neivity talk for your pre school pals.

Also FYI I have had an attempted scam tried on me before and took the precautions any other member can take and use systems in place that are available to anyone else. Ive had to use dispute systems times before as both a seller and a buyer and always won my case.Like I said earlier that some members know the system & do their homework first before buying,but some members don't.
If buying adding the extra measures & making it harder for these scammers then I don't see the problem with that.
I also understand that Saxs is not a sales site like AVF or HUKD's,but you have to ask yourself why do they demand the photos,Lan-line number etc from Sellers.

BTW: Would you buy a Pandora bracelet on here ?

[Viper]

I also understand that Saxs is not a sales site like AVF or HUKD's,but you have to ask yourself why do they demand the photos,Lan-line number etc from Sellers.

Hi,

I'm selling this set of Rays VOlks TE37s.

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab177/Viperzs/506-3032_Impreza_37.jpg

Heres my landline: 01849 718657


Photos and a number mean nothing IMO. photo from google and the number is from my head... Alternatively you could just use a number of an accomplice who can answer questions about the 'item' but never be traced to being involved.

No matter how many precautions are set in place you can never stop scammers.

[Ashleyp]

no worries viper. no body would buy those wheels anyway

TE37s or GTF :P (CE28s are acceptable too)

i cba to read all the crap on the previous page, but although i agree it's nice to have precautions in place, it is in no way shape or form simo / the mods responsibility if you get scammed even though they often do a fair bit (more than is required) to help prevent such dodgey transactions. if more people think like you wheresmenuts, then it'd be better off to shut down the for sale section.

the mods aren't police / detectives / FBI / men in black.

Some people are just prolific thread starters in the scammers section.

It appears every deal one person does ends up in the scammers section, as everything they buy never turns up , or does not turn up within 24 hrs.

Unrealistic


also, i completely agree johnathon. not just bad sellers out there, but a lot of threads created by bad buyers who are impatient.

A mate of mine recently sold an item which he stated "will post for next day delivery once payment is recieved". payment wasn't recieved until 3 days later, my mate then posted the item, and the buyer complained that it wasn't sent next day! fortunately, paypal were on the ball on this occasion, but it could have easily been a case of the buyer ending up with the item and his money back.

[Viper]

no worries viper. no body would buy those wheels anyway

TE37s or GTF :P (CE28s are acceptable too)

They are TE37s, I made a typo :A:

[Ashleyp]

fair enough! im on my phone so can't see :(

volks are awesome.

[Viper]

fair enough! im on my phone so can't see :(

volks are awesome.

Are you interested in buying them? Only want £150 for them, they're boxed as new. Payment paypal gift only :y:

[WheresMeNuts]

Hi,

I'm selling this set of Rays VOlks TD37s.

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab177/Viperzs/506-3032_Impreza_37.jpg

Heres my landline: 01849 718657


Photos and a number mean nothing IMO. photo from google and the number is from my head... Alternatively you could just use a number of an accomplice who can answer questions about the 'item' but never be traced to being involved.

No matter how many precautions are set in place you can never stop scammers.

Well for a start you have failed to follow the said rules as your photo does not have your user name with date on it & so would not be allowed.
Your phone number that you say is your Lan-line would also fail when the buyer calls the number to only find out the line is dead or a old lady answers saying she has no clue who you are.You would in fact be banned ;)



i cba to read all the crap on the previous page, but although i agree it's nice to have precautions in place, it is in no way shape or form simo / the mods responsibility if you get scammed even though they often do a fair bit (more than is required) to help prevent such dodgey transactions. if more people think like you wheresmenuts, then it'd be better off to shut down the for sale section.

the mods aren't police / detectives / FBI / men in black.



The FS/FT has so much Spam & so many Fake items being sold that it's becoming more predictable.You also see the odd member getting scammed & so we just say that it's the buyers fault for being stupid :-/

I don't see anywhere on this thread where I've said Mods should be "police / detectives / FBI / men in black".All I've said is that selling & buying practices on sax can be improved.

[Viper]

Even if i had my username in the photo and provided a landline where someone would answer the questions it still doesn't stop me from scamming though...

No matter how many details I give, I can still take payment and not send items out.

[Mochachino]

I definatly wouldnt be happy about posting up my landline phone number lol

It seems you think you know what needs to be done to make sure a trade will go fine, but you would rather the mods do it all for you. Either lazy, or so you have someone to blame because if you did your own 'back ground check' and you got scammed you wouldnt have no one to blame.

[Ashleyp]

Are you interested in buying them? Only want £150 for them, they're boxed as new. Payment paypal gift only :y:

i can post the money, in an envelope labled as "money"? that way royal mail can keep it safe whilst it's being delivered.

Well for a start you have failed to follow the said rules as your photo does not have your user name with date on it & so would not be allowed.
Your phone number that you say is your Lan-line would also fail when the buyer calls the number to only find out the line is dead or a old lady answers saying she has no clue who you are.You would in fact be banned ;)

it's a nice thought. but the mods don't have time to sit in the section all day to check every pic has a user name etc within it.

and even if they did have a user name, doesn't mean the item will be sent.

[QUOTE]The FS/FT has so much Spam & so many Fake items being sold that it's becoming more predictable.You also see the odd member getting scammed & so we just say that it's the buyers fault for being stupid :-/

I don't see anywhere on this thread where I've said Mods should be "police / detectives / FBI / men in black".All I've said is that selling & buying practices on sax can be improved.

as i said, i haven't read page 3 because it's full of crap.

why not make some realistic suggestions of what can be done?

there are all ready precautions in place, people knew because there was a scammer named nik hewwit on the go, there was a 20 page thread stickied in gen chat regarding it. and yet, daily people were sayng "oh look, this member with about 5 posts and 2 weeks membership promised he'd send me an engine cheap if i paid via gift"

just proof that precautions were taken, and people still didnt use their common knowledge. hence the 100 post / 30 day rule is in place.

the only way to make trading 100% safe is cash on collection. it's how i deal these days.

[WheresMeNuts]

Even if i had my username in the photo and provided a landline where someone would answer the questions it still doesn't stop me from scamming though...

No matter how many details I give, I can still take payment and not send items out.
Yes you're correct & would not guarantee that I would receive my goods,but police have a confirmed Lan-line number that I'm sure would help them & not many if any (scammers) would want to give out a lan-line number so it's a winner for honest sellers & buyers.

I definatly wouldnt be happy about posting up my landline phone number lol

It seems you think you know what needs to be done to make sure a trade will go fine, but you would rather the mods do it all for you. Either lazy, or so you have someone to blame because if you did your own 'back ground check' and you got scammed you wouldnt have no one to blame.It's only a suggestion in the rules to ask seller for lan-line number,but with yourself having a 40 iT score then buyers would be confident of buying from you & may not ask for it.
I don't recall saying I know what needs to be done ?
I've only stated what I would see as a improvement on keeping scammers out of Sax & improving the FS/FT.
What do I need the Mods to do as you put it ?
All they have to do is strengthen the FS/FT section with a few helpers & update the selling & buying rules (small tweaks) & like I've said it will not stop scams,but will definitely reduce them. It's nothing to do with being lazy.



it's a nice thought. but the mods don't have time to sit in the section all day to check every pic has a user name etc within it.

and even if they did have a user name, doesn't mean the item will be sent.



as i said, i haven't read page 3 because it's full of crap.

why not make some realistic suggestions of what can be done?

there are all ready precautions in place, people knew because there was a scammer named nik hewwit on the go, there was a 20 page thread stickied in gen chat regarding it. and yet, daily people were sayng "oh look, this member with about 5 posts and 2 weeks membership promised he'd send me an engine cheap if i paid via gift"

just proof that precautions were taken, and people still didnt use their common knowledge. hence the 100 post / 30 day rule is in place.

the only way to make trading 100% safe is cash on collection. it's how i deal these days.Mods don't need to sit & check all the posts in the FS/Ft section as the helpers would do that for them & so that is not a issue.


You ask for realistic suggestions,but I'm not sure you understand why other sites ask for them suggestions.

You also use the over used word on sax "Common Knowledge or Common sense" & that's a cop-out for the Mods when in fact they have the powers to improve the security as I & others have suggested today & in the past.

The 100/30 day rule will & has improved the security,but still don't see why having no helpers & added security measure should be a problem.

[J222JRA]

Only way scamming on here will stop is if the for sale area was to be removed.

Shall i put the suggestion forward to Simo??

[Viper]

* landline

[Ashleyp]

for a start, it's landline, not lan-line.

secondly, im a legit seller, but i sure as hell won't be giving out my phone number, my address, or postcode out on a public forum. Does that mean im now not a legit seller?

go be a helper yourself right now. troll every thread in the for sale section and advise people on how to prove they are legitimate.

the other forums i'm on often have a lot more older members who are wiser, and thus scams are far less frequent. on here, people seem to be willing to chuck their money at anyone.

yes, there are always ways to improve security, but theres also a fine line between security and freedom / ease of use. people can improve their personal secutiry by not giving out money to any random person on the site, a trait that many don't have.

the only way to 100% stop scamming is to pay via cash on collection, or to have no for sale section.

[WheresMeNuts]

for a start, it's landline, not lan-line.

secondly, im a legit seller, but i sure as hell won't be giving out my phone number, my address, or postcode out on a public forum. Does that mean im now not a legit seller?

go be a helper yourself right now. troll every thread in the for sale section and advise people on how to prove they are legitimate.

the other forums i'm on often have a lot more older members who are wiser, and thus scams are far less frequent. on here, people seem to be willing to chuck their money at anyone.

yes, there are always ways to improve security, but theres also a fine line between security and freedom / ease of use. people can improve their personal secutiry by not giving out money to any random person on the site, a trait that many don't have.

the only way to 100% stop scamming is to pay via cash on collection, or to have no for sale section.

Landline & Lan-line are the same thing,but let's not split hairs.
You would also not be given out your details to all viewers as you would be taken the sale to PM once both agree to sale.

You also say you would not give out your address details,so that means your only cash on collection & so this thread has nothing to do with you & more to do with people like myself who buy/sell & need the item posted.

Why would being a Helper mean you're trolling ?
You are limiting yourself to a bargain if you only want to pay cash on collection.

You will find that most things bought on the net are in fact posted & so only makes sense to add extra security.


Only way scamming on here will stop is if the for sale area was to be removed.

Shall i put the suggestion forward to Simo??If you don't care about the FS/FT section then so be it.
I just think it's an easy upgrade of security that costs nothing & in fact leaves Mods more time to do other needs on the Forum.

[Mochachino]

It's only a suggestion in the rules to ask seller for lan-line number,but with yourself having a 40 iT score then buyers would be confident of buying from you & may not ask for it.

Then the iTrader is a good system to have in place. Ive had the opportunity to scam new members before lol, they pay by gift and I tell them not to do so in the future because of the scammers. But when you send a payment you have the options in front of you, of couse you would use goods, if you have knowledge of using paypal and setting it up then you have knowledge of goods n gift etc

I don't recall saying I know what needs to be done ?
What do I need the Mods to do as you put it ?
All they have to do is strengthen the FS/FT section with a few helpers & update the selling & buying rules (small tweaks) & like I've said it will not stop scams,but will definitely reduce them. It's nothing to do with being lazy.

===


You also use the over used word on sax "Common Knowledge or Common sense" & that's a cop-out for the Mods when in fact they have the powers to improve the security as I & others have suggested today & in the past.

The 100/30 day rule will & has improved the security,but still don't see why having no helpers & added security measure should be a problem.

Helpers would just be another word for mods. Think of the mods as helpers. You kinda answer your own questions.

[Ashleyp]

Landline & Lan-line are the same thing,but let's not split hairs.
You would also not be given out your details to all viewers as you would be taken the sale to PM once both agree to sale.

You also say you would not give out your address details,so that means your only cash on collection & so this thread has nothing to do with you & more to do with people like myself who buy/sell & need the item posted.

Why would being a Helper mean you're trolling ?
You are limiting yourself to a bargain if you only want to pay cash on collection.

You will find that most things bought on the net are in fact posted & so only makes sense to add extra security.

well, a landline is a phone line, a lan line is a local area network line. so different.

if i've sold big items, then i'm willing to provide other details via pm. how can a mod / 'helper' check that the seller has PM'd landline / other info? oh wait... They can't!

i didnt say being a helper would mean youre trolling, i said why don't you go and troll every for sale thread. if you did you'd see that it's not as simple as just telling people to post photos / details blah blah. it's a time consuming proccess.

there are already helpers in the for sale section, theyre called section mods. as with most normal people, they have jobs and lives, so don't spend every living second on here waiting for a thread to appear so they can 'help' and check it.

I'd say this thread has something to do with me, seeing as i started it... I'd also like to add that i do sell items via post, just not in a while as i've had no need to, so again, another invalid point from yourself.

of course it makes sense to add extra security, but if people aren't willing to look after themselves in for sale sections, then you can't constantly blame the mods for their lack of help.

Anything else you require answering?

[Jay_]

oh my god...some people need to be shot...

[WheresMeNuts]

Then the iTrader is a good system to have in place. Ive had the opportunity to scam new members before lol, they pay by gift and I tell them not to do so in the future because of the scammers. But when you send a payment you have the options in front of you, of couse you would use goods, if you have knowledge of using paypal and setting it up then you have knowledge of goods n gift etc



===



Helpers would just be another word for mods. Think of the mods as helpers. You kinda answer your own questions.

Helpers & Mods are 2 completely different people on this site & a helper can't ban a member.The helper would PM the Mod of the reasons they believe the member should be suspended or banned & then it's up to the mod as to what action showed be taken if any.


well, a landline is a phone line, a lan line is a local area network line. so different.

if i've sold big items, then i'm willing to provide other details via pm. how can a mod / 'helper' check that the seller has PM'd landline / other info? oh wait... They can't!

i didnt say being a helper would mean youre trolling, i said why don't you go and troll every for sale thread. if you did you'd see that it's not as simple as just telling people to post photos / details blah blah. it's a time consuming proccess.

there are already helpers in the for sale section, theyre called section mods. as with most normal people, they have jobs and lives, so don't spend every living second on here waiting for a thread to appear so they can 'help' and check it.

I'd say this thread has something to do with me, seeing as i started it... I'd also like to add that i do sell items via post, just not in a while as i've had no need to, so again, another invalid point from yourself.

of course it makes sense to add extra security, but if people aren't willing to look after themselves in for sale sections, then you can't constantly blame the mods for their lack of help.

Anything else you require answering?Maybe I'm reading it wrong with regards to lan-lines http://eggcorns.lascribe.net/english/753/lan-line/

I never said a helper or a Mod had to check to see if the seller has contacted the buyer by phone.I said if it was in the rules as being recommended that the buyer asks & calls the buyer before making payment.
It makes it easier for the mods to then ask the buyer if he has the lan-line number of the buyer & if the buyer has done what is suggested within the rules then the buyer has better evidence for a small claims court or even the police if needed.
My point about you Posting or buying an item that needs posted is valid as I was only replying to what you posted earlier "
the only way to make trading 100% safe is cash on collection. it's how i deal these days."

To say being a helper/mod & continually monitoring the FS/FT is time consuming,but that's not for you or I to say as we have not put our names forward to do it.

Times are changing on the Net & more & more people are buying on-line for cheaper prices & that also means Forums like this one & many others.
Rules on buying on-line is getting more secure by the day & that's why sites ask for the sort of things I've suggested.

It's like some people are scared of change or are scared to give out a number or photo with name.

I can see from what I've read that you & others including Mods are not interested in change & so be it.
Looks like the FS/FT will be the same then where people keep Spamming with ebay links to the listing they have on or some guy selling a Links of London that they say is real or it's a m8's etc etc.

I like others will still look on FS/FT section for bargains,but chances of buying are so slim made by the rules that are in place at the present moment.

[Mochachino]

Helpers & Mods are 2 completely different people on this site & a helper can't ban a member.The helper would PM the Mod of the reasons they believe the member should be suspended or banned & then it's up to the mod as to what action showed be taken if any.




Well if thats all you class a helper as then every single member of this forum is a helper http://www.saxperience.com/forum/images/buttons/report.gif hit that if you feel threatened and a mod will come to the resque asap.

[WheresMeNuts]

Well if thats all you class a helper as then every single member of this forum is a helper http://www.saxperience.com/forum/images/buttons/report.gif hit that if you feel threatened and a mod will come to the resque asap.

So are you going to hit the report button just because someone is selling say an iphone,but does not show the photo of the phone with name & date.
Most members won't & so helpers would be checking almost all the time & maybe they can stop a scam from taken place.
They also have the option to Lock the Thread until the requested details have been PMed to the helper.

[Viper]

Right, my solution:

Starting from now I will personally supervise EVERY sale. I will go to the seller to check the items are real and not made out of Playdoh. I will carry out checks via the PNC to make sure they are legit. Then I will go to the seller and let them know what I found out. I will also make sure they are not using monopoly money. After I have confirmed the buyer is using 100% legal British Pounds Sterling I will deliver the money to the buyer and then take the item to the seller :y:

[Mochachino]

So are you going to hit the report button just because someone is selling say an iphone,but does not show the photo of the phone with name & date.
Most members won't & so helpers would be checking almost all the time & maybe they can stop a scam from taken place.
They also have the option to Lock the Thread until the requested details have been PMed to the helper.

No becuase the mods would probably laugh at me for reporting a for sale thread that has no pic lol

[Ashleyp]

Lets discuss the English language. When i said "it's how i deal these days", what does the phrase 'these days' mean to you? Does it mean forever, or does it mean in recent times? When you've used the minute brain cells you seem to have in order to work out the correct answer to that, then you'll soon see your original point is still invalid.

You seem to be pretty adament on introducing santas little helpers to saxp, how come you haven't put your name forward to do it?

Once again, to discuss the English language, 'time consuming' equals, the consumption of time. So, yes, checking the FS section is time consuming, to lable it as more time consuming for some is what i think youre getting at.

you say chances of buying are slim due to the current rules, but why? are you incapable of finding a genuine seller and need your own arse wiped? why don't you do all that you suggest and ask for a 'lan-line' or a photo with the users name in it?

You clearly don't like trading on saxp, so why do you do it?

I think many people have forgotten that this site is primarily for discussing saxos, not as a selling website. if you wish for it to be run and ruled like eBay, then it seems you're in the wrong place.

Nobody is against change, it's all about finding feasable solutions in order to create a secure trading environment.

I pose a question that;

- Is there really enough scams on here to warrent a higher level of security? i'd say no.
- Whilst the scammer section is filled, are many actually scams? not really,
- Whose fault is it that the scams have been caused? Again, this links back to buyers needing to be more aware.

Regardless, this is now completely off topic.

[WheresMeNuts]

No becuase the mods would probably laugh at me for reporting a for sale thread that has no pic lol

You have missed the MAIN POINT......the rules state you must provide a photo of said item,so why would they laugh at the sax rules.

Like I said it's only a suggestion & looks like Sax will continue to attract the wrong people in the FS/FT.

No point in myself replying now as it looks like we are going round in circles.

[Mochachino]

Co signed.

[Ashleyp]

You have missed the MAIN POINT......the rules state you must provide a photo of said item,so why would they laugh at the sax rules.

Like I said it's only a suggestion & looks like Sax will continue to attract the wrong people in the FS/FT.

No point in myself replying now as it looks like we are going round in circles.

I pose a question that;

- Is there really enough scams on here to warrent a higher level of security? i'd say no.
- Whilst the scammer section is filled, are many actually scams? not really,
- Whose fault is it that the scams have been caused? Again, this links back to buyers needing to be more aware.

Theres not actually as many scams as people think. And those that do happen can often be prevented by buyers using their brain a little, and then, if it seems dodgey, hit that report button.

[WheresMeNuts]

Lets discuss the English language. When i said "it's how i deal these days", what does the phrase 'these days' mean to you? Does it mean forever, or does it mean in recent times? When you've used the minute brain cells you seem to have in order to work out the correct answer to that, then you'll soon see your original point is still invalid.

You seem to be pretty adament on introducing santas little helpers to saxp, how come you haven't put your name forward to do it?

Once again, to discuss the English language, 'time consuming' equals, the consumption of time. So, yes, checking the FS section is time consuming, to lable it as more time consuming for some is what i think youre getting at.

you say chances of buying are slim due to the current rules, but why? are you incapable of finding a genuine seller and need your own arse wiped? why don't you do all that you suggest and ask for a 'lan-line' or a photo with the users name in it?

The problem with every post i've read of yourself in this thread is that youre quick to make a lot of accusations and throw all these wild suggestions about, but when they could be implimented by yourself to ensure the online selling safety, you seem to dismiss them.

You clearly don't like trading on saxp, so why do you do it?

I think many people have forgotten that this site is primarily for discussing saxos, not as a selling website. if you wish for it to be run and ruled like eBay, then it seems you're in the wrong place.

Nobody is against change, it's all about finding feasable solutions in order to create a secure trading environment.

I pose a question that;

- Is there really enough scams on here to warrent a higher level of security? i'd say no. - Whilst the scammer section is filled, are many actually scams? not really, whose fault is it that the scams have been caused? Again, this links back to buyers needing to be more aware.

Regardless, this is now completely off topic.
Why do you feel the need to insult people just because you don't agree with them ?

[WheresMeNuts]

Theres not actually as many scams as people think. And those that do happen can often be prevented by buyers using their brain a little, and then, if it seems dodgey, hit that report button.

Geez you do like to repeat & not take in the other options that can be avalible if Mods gave it the go-ahead.

[Ashleyp]

Geez you do like to repeat & not take in the other options that can be avalible if Mods gave it the go-ahead.

If you honestly think that youre the first person in the world to suggest posting a pic with the user name in it, then you're more naive than i previously thought.

There are section mods, but not being online all day, it's often difficult to keep on top of due to the sheer volume of for sale threads that are on the forum.

As i said before, you seem to be adament on saxP having helpers to solve all problems on the forums. Why do you not feel the need to volunteer yourself for it? Or even PM simo regarding your idea?

[Jay_]

everyone is more than willing for change, but most things you have mentioned are purely common sense that the buyer should look into for themselves.

[WheresMeNuts]

If you honestly think that youre the first person in the world to suggest posting a pic with the user name in it, then you're more naive than i previously thought.

There are section mods, but not being online all day, it's often difficult to keep on top of due to the sheer volume of for sale threads that are on the forum.

As i said before, you seem to be adament on saxP having helpers to solve all problems on the forums. Why do you not feel the need to volunteer yourself for it? Or even PM simo regarding your idea?

You don't seem to be able to hold a conversation without throwing in the odd insult & in truth that shows a weakness in your argument/points.

[Ashleyp]

You don't seem to be able to hold a conversation without throwing in the odd insult & in truth that shows a weakness in your argument/points.

I'm not the one who has failed to answer questions posed to me. Can the same be said for you?

I guess that would define who is better at holding a conversation / debate.

[Jay_]

in truth you are suggesting stuff that is common sense and every buyer should do.

[WheresMeNuts]

everyone is more than willing for change, but most things you have mentioned are purely common sense that the buyer should look into for themselves.

I agree most buyers would,but some don't & also how much does the FS/FT section become a spam market for ebay listing these days.

Rules state no outside links are allowed like ebay when selling an item on Sax.

[Jay_]

But it is the buyers fault if they do not do what common sense tells them to do...

and I know what the rules state....which is why ebay linked thread get deleted...

[Mochachino]

in truth you are suggesting stuff that is common sense and every buyer should do.

lol, exactly.

Its like stopping at a red traffic light..you drive straight through and get flashed for it then complain there wasnt a sign saying "stop here"

Like them insurance claims and mcdonalds hot drinks cups things now have to say "may contain hot drink" because someone claimed after they burnt themselfs on their hot drink.. lol

[Ashleyp]

everyone is more than willing for change, but most things you have mentioned are purely common sense that the buyer should look into for themselves.

Correct.

If a random man walked up to you on the street and offered you a 'genuine' rolex for £10. would you take it? Nope.

Yet people feel it's OK to do so on a forum...

[Mochachino]

I agree most buyers would,but some don't & also how much does the FS/FT section become a spam market for ebay listing these days.

Rules state no outside links are allowed like ebay when selling an item on Sax.

Why are you so concerned about eBay links on saxp btw? It isnt on topic at all,but ealier you siad 'eBay is 100% safe" or something, so you should be happy people have disregard for rules and post their eBay links lol

[Bound]

What I think is unacceptable is that bellend that was still laying into Matt after he explained he hadn't posted the items because he was moving house and his mum was critically ill. He allowed 1 working day for the items to turn up before starting the scammer thread IIRC, wouldn't stop accusing Matt after he did everything in his power and provided screenshots of paypal being unable to refund him.

Fucking clown.

[WheresMeNuts]

Correct.

If a random man walked up to you on the street and offered you a 'genuine' rolex for £10. would you take it? Nope.

Yet people feel it's OK to do so on a forum...

Nothing like the same & with having the extra details it can only help if you are going to be scammed.

Why are you so concerned about eBay links on saxp btw? It isnt on topic at all,but ealier you siad 'eBay is 100% safe" or something, so you should be happy people have disregard for rules and post their eBay links lolI'm not concerned,but think it does damage what FS/FT is supposed to be & also proves that you don't care & Mods don't care & so why have it in the Rules if no one cares...........

I'm out.

[Ashleyp]

Nothing like the same & with having the extra details it can only help if you are going to be scammed.

Actually theyre very very much similar.

It's how Nik Hewitt scammed thousands from this forum, by offering genuine items via PM with no proof of who he was etc. a lot of people on here just assumed he was genuine even though he'd only had about 10 posts.

What I think is unacceptable is that bellend that was still laying into Matt after he explained he hadn't posted the items because he was moving house and his mum was critically ill. He allowed 1 working day for the items to turn up before starting the scammer thread IIRC, wouldn't stop accusing Matt after he did everything in his power and provided screenshots of paypal being unable to refund him.

Fucking clown.

the 8 page thread?

If so, at first i kinda sided with the buyer seeing as he was told it'd be sent via next day courrier. However, opening a scammer thread within 7 days is just crazy!

towards the mid point of reading the thread where it was evident the buyer opened up a dispute after just 2 working days - which is, a complete joke at best.

Can kinda understand both parties in that instance, both had genuine reasons to get what they were after.

i think the main reason that thread got out of hand was because of the other people jumping in and escalating the problem to a far higher level.

[Mochachino]

Also that Nik Hewitt gave a genuine address at which he actually lived at.

[Gandi699]

If you cant make rules, make "best practises" that all the decent sellers will stick to. Frequent PMs and Texts informing people updates, postage times, problems etc.
Scammers can get around these things but it will help

[Bound]

Actually theyre very very much similar.

It's how Nik Hewitt scammed thousands from this forum, by offering genuine items via PM with no proof of who he was etc. a lot of people on here just assumed he was genuine even though he'd only had about 10 posts.



the 8 page thread?

If so, at first i kinda sided with the buyer seeing as he was told it'd be sent via next day courrier. However, opening a scammer thread within 7 days is just crazy!

towards the mid point of reading the thread where it was evident the buyer opened up a dispute after just 2 working days - which is, a complete joke at best.

Can kinda understand both parties in that instance, both had genuine reasons to get what they were after.

i think the main reason that thread got out of hand was because of the other people jumping in and escalating the problem to a far higher level.

Aye, I know he doesn't have the benefit of knowing Matt personally, but as I do I have the advantage of knowing what a decent and honest guy he is and how he would never even think of scamming anyone it rubbed me up the wrong way, that aside though he was like Tweek from south park with his buying, Matt did everything in his power to keep the seller informed at the first oppurtunity, I don't think he should buy from forums or the internet in general if he's that nervous about it, like I understand he doesn't want to be scammed, no one does, but I think there were mitigating circumstances. Fair enough being uneasy before Matt replied, but still getting on his case and calling him out after he posted screen shots and a huge explanation of why what happened happened is out of order imo. He would of still got the items (I know it wouldn't of arrived in the agreed time, but he seriously needs to learn patience, there's being cautious then there's this like on the verge of a breakdown when there isn't contact for 0.1 seconds) but like I said - exceptional circumstances. I think the buyer has to much power in transactions these days and an awkward seller can really fuck the buyer over.

[Ryan]

Where's me nuts. Read alot of your posts in this thread.

Do you actually think when we see eBay links/possible fake goods we don't remove them, that we just leave things there for the Lolz that someone may be getting scammed???

We enforce things we see or are 'reported'. If you think that on a forum as busy as this that you could ever have staff checking every thread you are incredibly deluded, it is just not possible (unless you want to start paying us for our time as we won't be able to do a real job is checking everything).

As I've repeatedly said, rules are there and people ignore them, members stupidity can't be something the staff can change.

You think eBay is safe? May want to try googling eBay scams and see about
that.

You may also want us to go checking everyone's pms whilst at it, I mean after all some deals are done via pm and it's our job to make sure that they do t pay via paypal gift in ever pm too.. :zainy:

[WheresMeNuts]

Where's me nuts. Read alot of your posts in this thread.

Do you actually think when we see eBay links/possible fake goods we don't remove them, that we just leave things there for the Lolz that someone may be getting scammed???

We enforce things we see or are 'reported'. If you think that on a forum as busy as this that you could ever have staff checking every thread you are incredibly deluded, it is just not possible (unless you want to start paying us for our time as we won't be able to do a real job is checking everything).

As I've repeatedly said, rules are there and people ignore them, members stupidity can't be something the staff can change.

You think eBay is safe? May want to try googling eBay scams and see about
that.

You may also want us to go checking everyone's pms whilst at it, I mean after all some deals are done via pm and it's our job to make sure that they do t pay via paypal gift in ever pm too.. :zainy:I think I'll rest my case.

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=382310
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w88/tigerplank/spammed-image.jpg

[Ryan]

Yes that's right we check every single post/thread made on this forum.

How you use the report button in future. Or is that too difficult??

[WheresMeNuts]

Yes that's right we check every single post/thread made on this forum.

How you use the report button in future. Or is that too difficult??

Well if that's your excuse then it just backs up my request to have some helpers cover that section of Sax & stop it becoming a spam heaven that it is just now.

Ryan you have rules in place & then get defensive when a member like myself who follows the rules asks you to tighten up on the rules as they are being abused on a daily basis.

If you don't have time or can't keep-up with that section then asking 1 or 2 members you trust to be a helper in his/hers free time will not do it any harm at all & will increase on members buying & selling on the FS/FT section.

[Mochachino]

Well if that's your excuse then it just backs up my request to have some helpers cover that section of Sax & stop it becoming a spam heaven that it is just now.

Ryan you have rules in place & then get defensive when a member like myself who follows the rules asks you to tighten up on the rules as they are being abused on a daily basis.

If you don't have time or can't keep-up with that section then asking 1 or 2 members you trust to be a helper in his/hers free time will not do it any harm at all & will increase on members buying & selling on the FS/FT section.

We have more than just 1 or 2 helpers, we have thousands. Every single member is a helper.

[Ryan]

Well if that's your excuse then it just backs up my request to have some helpers cover that section of Sax & stop it becoming a spam heaven that it is just now.

Ryan you have rules in place & then get defensive when a member like myself who follows the rules asks you to tighten up on the rules as they are being abused on a daily basis.

If you don't have time or can't keep-up with that section then asking 1 or 2 members you trust to be a helper in his/hers free time will not do it any harm at all & will increase on members buying & selling on the FS/FT section.

I check the reported posts section alot. I am yet to see any done by you about the for sale section.

As we all keep repeatedly saying the report post button is there for a reason. Even if you have more people with buttons you still cannot monitor every thread. The forum needs members to help us to help themselves. Some do and report things which staff can then deal with, others just bitch and whinge that we don't wipe their bums correctly for them.

Now that's not being defensive, you are whinging about how we don't do x,y,z when you can't be bothered to report things. It's easy to take the moral high ground and say everything's wrong.

[WheresMeNuts]

We have more than just 1 or 2 helpers, we have thousands. Every single member is a helper.

Yes of course we do...............

Your argument fails on so many levels & you only need to look on the FS/FT to see this.

[Mochachino]

Its kinda like not voting in the election then moaning about who got into parliment.

[Ryan]

Just had a quick nose I got to the 8th of April.

No reported posts by where's me nuts.

Guess there's not as much spotted wrong in for sale as banging on about, if so it would be reported right??.

[blackie_2k5]

Its kinda like not voting in the election then moaning about who got into parliment.

nicely put tbh

as mentioned, if you dont use the facilities at your grasp how can you expect things to run risk/trouble free