MG ZR; your thoughts?

[Cutz]

What's everyones general opinion on MG ZR's? I've got myself a job now so thinking of getting one.. I know headgasket is weak but what else should I look out for?

The model I was thinking was a 105 Trophy 05 plate or newer and ideally with 40k or less on?

Cheers Cutz

[MiniGibbo]

Headgasket and wiring iirc on the mk2's..

Cheap as chips can pick up a early 160 for less than 2k from what ive seen. Can even get a zs180 for 2k these days :fcuk:

[Nik_L]

I went through a phase of wanting 1 and managed to talk the GF around.

Went and viewed/drove 1 (a 1.8 16v 120bhp ZR+) and now i wouldn't even take 1 if it was given to me.

They look like a decent built car, how wrong was i.

[devilsadvocate]

As long as the HG has been changed for an uprated one then im not aware of anything else common that goes wrong with them

105 will likely be slower than a VTR though

I would only consider a 160 if I was going to get one

[LWS_71]

I think there decent looking cars, the mk2 (all personal opinion of course). Obviously everyone will mention the head gasket problem but that can be sorted.

Also the interior is abit crap and falls apart. If you do get one make sure the headgaskets been done and has full service history.

[spudders]

Dont bother there shit....

[MiniGibbo]

Dont bother there shit....

No where near as good as two 306's eh :homme:

[jimmyboy]

My mate had once for a month and encountered problem after problem. She ended up getting rid because she was just fed up with having one thing fixed, for something else to go.

This one had low mileage, FSH and was still full of problems. Obviously it's pot luck with second hand cars, so she may have been unlucky, but based on her experience, I'd stay well clear!

[rick_VTR]

As long as the HG has been changed for an uprated one then im not aware of anything else common that goes wrong with them

105 will likely be slower than a VTR though

I would only consider a 160 if I was going to get one



im also on the look out for a nice 105, test driven a few, and id say they are pretty much on par with a standard vtr, if not quicker, even tho it a 1400 still 105 bhp, well 103 i think but thats what its called anyway. the few ive driven felt more torquey than my vtr, wether my vtr is down on power to other vtrs or not id say the zr 105 is a better car in general.

much more of a solid car than any saxo aswell, way better built.

aslong as the headgasket is uprated and timing belt changed regular theres not many other problems. (that i have found out yet)

[turbod_vtr]

head gaskets. also a ball bearing in inlet manifold that seizes up. wiring is a bit of an issue with them aswell. when there ok tho not a bad cheap car.

[spudders]

No where near as good as two 306's eh :homme:

that should be updated to 2 306dturbs an now a gti6
also iv had 2 mgzrs an a rover 25..... i wont be makin that mistake again i am speaking from experiance 3 headgaskets in 4 months a snapped con rod hole in the block and sump also exessive piston slap resulting in fu*kin loud top end knocking ... and none of these cars were over 70000 mile:wall: do you now realise why i despise mgs ???

[loudandproud205]

Spudders learn how to do the repairs I would say.

3 head gaskets in 4 months screams am crap at doing my job.

I've had 3 200's a 25 and ZR and will quite happily have another any time.

Chassis is great on them and the little K engine is a revvy thing, I wish I hadn't swapped mine for a VTS, but then I will own another but fingers crossed the next one will be the turbod conversion

[LeeM]

agreed, 3 headgaskets in 4 months suggests they werent changed properly. the engines arent that crap

[Robbie-Flat-Arch]

mg zr my mate has one its a great car as long as you keep a check on the levels all the time then the headgaskets are normally fine and if they do go thenthey now have unrated headgaskets which last longer and are alot better than normal

[spudders]

Spudders learn how to do the repairs I would say.

3 head gaskets in 4 months screams am crap at doing my job.

I've had 3 200's a 25 and ZR and will quite happily have another any time.

Chassis is great on them and the little K engine is a revvy thing, I wish I hadn't swapped mine for a VTS, but then I will own another but fingers crossed the next one will be the turbod conversion

i know how to do the repairs i should have worded that properly i put one in my 51plate and sold that a few days later and bought a 53plate. 2 weeks later changed the gasket and then again just before i decided to sell it so i gave up on rovers with a k seris and decided to stay with peugeot/citreon
also i should also mention at the time i was doing a massive amount of milage ...

[Quick]

Facelifted 200/25 with bodykit!

[Reechard]

Id recommend test driving one, a lot of people say the driving position is bad. I didnt find it too bad myself but its not to everyones tastes.

the 180 is pretty good, cant comment on the lower spec ones. Head gaskests as said need to have been uprated or you will be constantly changing them.

[Cutz]

Yeah I'll be making sure of it's service history, but prices are good for low milage, 1 owner, FSH etc..

I can't afford insurance on anything bigger than a 105, plus want to keep my costs down. My Furio not doing great MPG as it's Cammed and modded. What are they like MPG (From Experience).

Thinking a Blue/Black one MK2, tinted rear lights, lowered 40mm, multispoke standard rims in Grey.

[MiniGibbo]

That's a good point the seats are quite high in the zr's..

Nowhere near as bad as the tf though, everytime i drove my brothers old one it felt like the steering wheel was in Your lap.

I remember clarkson slatting the Tf's saying it's like you sit on the car not in it :homme:

[swampy]

Fit the oil spray bars and upratd head gasket from the freelander and things last longer.

[rick_VTR]

Id recommend test driving one, a lot of people say the driving position is bad. I didnt find it too bad myself but its not to everyones tastes.

the 180 is pretty good, cant comment on the lower spec ones. Head gaskests as said need to have been uprated or you will be constantly changing them.


ZR's only go up to 160 brake?
well petrol ones anyway, not sure on the TD

the ZS do a 180 tho i think.

[piranhamatt]

I have a mate who bought one, and the head gasket went twice with the prev owner, and has just gone again....

She sits it in her driveway and just revs it- not the best of things to do

[666saxo666]

possible shout for the shittest car ever made.
A halfords special version of a gash hatchback.

[Lewis]

the mk2 looks and goes well, vvc is a bargain

[Mochachino]

I hope you get banned from saxp and from driving for owning an MG

[wolf_gsxr]

Shit engine and the interior while it don't look to bad it's the cheapest thing ever made. As for the tf I was under one the other day it's a bloody metro all the running gear and everything. At the end of the day it's a rover with a body kit.. There's a reason they went bust...

[Gandi699]

Contrary to what people on here say, the K-series is not a bad engine if its had the necessary modifications and is cared for, lotus used it in there first elise and so did caterham in their cars.
However parts are becoming harder to get hold of now, so its not a car I'd invest time and money in - just buy it and have it for a bit of fun for a while. On the fun note the 25/ZR will also take a T-series turbo in its bay and can be made pretty quick, however what I'd do is buy a cheap 25 gti/zr 160 and put its engine in a metro gti for a bit of fun.

[Gandi699]

Shit engine and the interior while it don't look to bad it's the cheapest thing ever made. As for the tf I was under one the other day it's a bloody metro all the running gear and everything. At the end of the day it's a rover with a body kit.. There's a reason they went bust...

Thats not quite true as metro used the R65 box that are in psa range. The TFs all had the Honda derived PG1. The subframe though is essentially the same as a metros though bar the ability for coilovers to be fitted and some sump mounts.

[wolf_gsxr]

That's what I ment. The chassis side of things. I thing the box is a sport box if there's such a thing as a sporty hairdressers shoe..

[badasssaxo]

I've owned a zr 04 plate facelift model for about nearly 4 years and believe it or not nothing has gone wrong with it

Other than re-gassing the Aircon and the usual tyres and bulbs

Find one that's been looked after and you'll be happy

[Cutz]

I hope you get banned from saxp and from driving for owning an MG

Cheers for your input..

[Cutz]

Thanks everyone else with the constructive replies.. I'm still not decided on what to do, but appreciate everyones opinions on the car, think some people need to remember there on sax-p not Top Gear.

[Mochachino]

Cheers for your input..

but appreciate everyones opinions on the car

No problem. Think its clear what my opinion on the car is.

[rey]

What are they like MPG (From Experience).

Pretty shite.

3 of my mates had them and complained that they drank fuel, especially compared to my VTR I had at the time.

[Gandi699]

No problem. Think its clear what my opinion on the car is.

Have you driven one of the vvc versions?
The BRM version had a horrible interior but did have a Torsen LSD as standard and went quite well

[Sean_VTR]

My mate's got one, proper smart tbf.. Not that fast but they are smart when modded up abit, just dislike all the blue ones you see with the Silver alloys.

[Stissy]

head gaskets as everyones said...

i drove one though, they're really nice to drive, and if you get them in the dark green colour i think they look pretty smart too :y: go for the 1.8 though, i drove the 1.4 and it was a bit underpowered

[Cutz]

Hmm as said earlier I wouldn't be able to insure anything other than 105.. So it would be that or neither. Have seen a couple of nice red ones.

Cheers Cutz

[Cutz]

Hmm as said earlier I wouldn't be able to insure anything other than 105.. So it would be that or neither. Have seen a couple of nice red ones.

Cheers Cutz

[rick_VTR]

Pretty shite.

3 of my mates had them and complained that they drank fuel, especially compared to my VTR I had at the time.



well concidering standard vtr you can get roughly between 30 - 40 mpg
and a standard zr 105 you can also get between 30 - 40 mpg, id say thats the same if im not mistaken?

your friends obviously didnt know how to drive sensibly.

[rick_VTR]

mg zr's are slow?
not this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kgSD1KtmFY&feature=related

[Gandi699]

Wouldnt bother with the 105 then, its a big car for a 1.4 to lug about. Here a wee tip though, the 84ps rover 25 model can be turned in a 105 ps one with just a throttle cable and removal of the stop on the throttle body.

[rey]

well concidering standard vtr you can get roughly between 30 - 40 mpg
and a standard zr 105 you can also get between 30 - 40 mpg, id say thats the same if im not mistaken?

your friends obviously didnt know how to drive sensibly.

Or considering over the same journey, done at the same time going to and from the same places used more fuel in the ZR than in my R.

I got 45 mpg average from my R on the motorway, they drank compared to that.

[Ryyy]

Head...


Gasket...

[Keefo]

Not that im bias or anything...

But they are great cars! :-p

they get a bad rep for HGF, but if they are not ragged from cold and a treated rite then it should be fine!

My 1.6 was well for 80k miles on stock HG, and now with my T16 turbo conversion, that engine did over 100k miles on its original head gasket.

They go far more than they should obviously, hence the bad rep, but its not every second of ever day they go like most people seem to believe.

And for even the little 1.4's they are far from slow!


mg zr's are slow?
not this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kgSD1KtmFY&feature=related

seen this car over on rovertech, its a T16 conversion like mine but with a T28 turbo up from stock T25, very fast for little money :D

there are FAR faster examples over there though!

[Keefo]

Or considering over the same journey, done at the same time going to and from the same places used more fuel in the ZR than in my R.

I got 45 mpg average from my R on the motorway, they drank compared to that.

well if you are going off the Fuel gauge then thats a silly thing to do on the MG/Rovers as the gauges are TERRIBLE.

If i accelerate harshly, the gauge instantly drops about quarter of a tank lmao
They are seriously inaccurate.

I could easily manage 30/40 mpg when i had the 1.6 in my r25

[rey]

No, going by what they'd put in the tank and how often.

[Keefo]

still could be down to the gauge....

as if the Saxo gauge is more accurate then they would know that they don't need to fill for a while.
Yet in the MG/Rover it would look like its in the red when it actually still have over quarter of a tank left...

end of the day, you can easily get 30/40 mpg out of the MG-Rovers... so your mate drives stupid, or car was fucked lol

[Gandi699]

VTR is a lot lighter than a R25/ZR so if its little 1.4 is lugging round a big body shell then yes it will drink the petrol

[rey]

still could be down to the gauge....

as if the Saxo gauge is more accurate then they would know that they don't need to fill for a while.
Yet in the MG/Rover it would look like its in the red when it actually still have over quarter of a tank left...

end of the day, you can easily get 30/40 mpg out of the MG-Rovers... so your mate drives stupid, or car was fucked lol

Or going by brimming the tank.

I'm only stating my experience, it's fact, it's what I've seen from 3 seperate 1.4 ZR's. They struggled to get much over 30mpg, which for the driving they were doing, and the size of the engine is shit.

[Keefo]

Doesnt matter if you brim the tank.... the gauge's still drop im the MG's >.>

and go over to mg-rover and have a search for peoples Mileage threads, as they always pop up on forums.

I had the 1.6 in for years and easily could get them kind of figures if i wanted to.
and wouldn't be much different with the 1.4's.

i have seen it time and time again people easily getting close to 40mpg.

even more so when we go to forum meets with up to 30 of us comparing what we got on the way to the meet.

[rey]

Doesnt matter if you brim the tank.... the gauge's still drop im the MG's >.>

and go over to mg-rover and have a search for peoples Mileage threads, as they always pop up on forums.

I had the 1.6 in for years and easily could get them kind of figures if i wanted to.
and wouldn't be much different with the 1.4's.

i have seen it time and time again people easily getting close to 40mpg.

even more so when we go to forum meets with up to 30 of us comparing what we got on the way to the meet.

I'm ignoring how much the gauge shows has been used, I'm going by what has actually been used, from brim to brim filling.

[0rang3peel]

utter shit.

[Keefo]

I'm ignoring how much the gauge shows has been used, I'm going by what has actually been used, from brim to brim filling.

ahhh i get what you mean.... having a slow day haha

Still very weird, as i said, i have seem many many maaany people easily get pretty much 40mpg out of them.


Hell i can get over 30 with the T16 turbo in there now.

[rey]

That's what I mean, I thought it was a bit wierd, but none of the three would get over low 30's mpg-wise.

[Reechard]

ZR's only go up to 160 brake?
well petrol ones anyway, not sure on the TD

the ZS do a 180 tho i think.

I meant 160 lol

[Jazz]

ZR160's aren't actually bad little cars, and you can pick them up for pocket change these days.

[jonathon5]

They are basically a Honda civic with a different engine

The parts are interchangeable

[Cam]

utter shit.

could not say it better :clapping:

[Cutz]

It's a bit rash that everyone with saxos are slating these cars like there worthless, my mate had a 105 mk1 and that looked great, went well, not slow at all. Saxos are hardly the most reliable, classy cheap car either.

Eitherway I've got a car that is known to have problems, and all be it after I've had the neglected parts fixed, I haven't had many problems at all.

If I don't get a ZR I can't think of anything as good looking for that price really?

Cutz

[McGuire86]

I was going to get one, had my heart set on one. Thank god I didnt, I see a few locally that have had big problems and looking around the internet for weeks on end they have far more negative comments than positives.
They look nice (well the mk2 does) but thats it.

I saved up abit more and got a Corolla T Sport, which I love!

Save your money longer and get something better imo.

[badasssaxo]

Both my vtr and Vts broke more combined than the zr I still have

My zr not broken once, they are better than people think

[Cutz]

I might test drive one anyway, ideally could do with one with warranty I suppose lol

Cutz

[Proffitt]

My mate bought one about 2 months ago.

Two weeks ago, the headgasket went, 3rd gear went ad it's very very tappety :homme:

The interior is bland and feels cheap and nasty!

His is and 04 plate with less than 50k i think.

[rick_VTR]

My mate bought one about 2 months ago.

Two weeks ago, the headgasket went, 3rd gear went ad it's very very tappety :homme:

The interior is bland and feels cheap and nasty!

His is and 04 plate with less than 50k i think.



this is the case with most saxo's tho?

[Proffitt]

this is the case with most saxo's tho?

Becasue they're shit and why I don't own one ;)

[iDale]

Not a fan in the MG and it willll break

[rick_VTR]

Becasue they're shit and why I don't own one ;)

i know, but the OP has a saxo, well it says in his profile he does.
so compared to a saxo, the zr would be a better option.

[Proffitt]

The better option would be to save up and get something else.

[rick_VTR]

The better option would be to save up and get something else.



cool man.

[DannyVTS]

I've always liked these and my mate had one for his first car, never had a problem with it and it was always a handsome car.

Headgasket is about the only problem they have, which isn't bad.

They aren't unreliable as some people will tell you, like any car they need maintenance and they will run and run.

Someone in my family had a R25 with the same engine etc, never serviced it for 3 years and drove it like a cunt. Only thing that had to be replaced were the tyres and brakes.

Luck of the draw I guess.

[Andrewz]

Not a fan in the MG and it willll break

and a saxo wont?

the 160 vvc are fantastic cars, my old man had one, and tbh thats why i brought a saxo, cause its the closest thing to one imo, handeling and acceleration are great. round corners are when there at there best.

my dad had his from brand new with 0 on the clock and had it with up to 80000 on the clock, although being mainly motorway miles he never once had one problem with the engine, he did have one experience where one of the twin exhaust tips litterly fell of, but was easily replaced. he just regualy serviced it him self.

with the 1.4 105s you can buy them as a + with all the 160 extras, colour coded trimings on the leather interior, skirts, fogs etc. so would recomend looking for one of them as they look better :y:

o and the engines are the honda k series arnt they? same as the lotus and rover turbo etc. I may stand corrected though lol

[Keefo]

and a saxo wont?

the 160 vvc are fantastic cars, my old man had one, and tbh thats why i brought a saxo, cause its the closest thing to one imo, handeling and acceleration are great. round corners are when there at there best.

my dad had his from brand new with 0 on the clock and had it with up to 80000 on the clock, although being mainly motorway miles he never once had one problem with the engine, he did have one experience where one of the twin exhaust tips litterly fell of, but was easily replaced. he just regualy serviced it him self.

with the 1.4 105s you can buy them as a + with all the 160 extras, colour coded trimings on the leather interior, skirts, fogs etc. so would recomend looking for one of them as they look better :y:

o and the engines are the honda k series arnt they? same as the lotus and rover turbo etc. I may stand corrected though lol


Strange that the 160 exhaust tip fell off!! they are well sought after and tend to be really well made haha

As for the engine, the honda and Rover engines are different.

late 200 shape models dropped the Honda k for the Rover k, and they are the ones used in the car you listed, NOT the honda ones.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_K_engine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_K_engine

With new head bolts, dowels and the uprated MLS headgasket, its very rare for them to actually go again if all fitted correctly.

[Andrewz]

Strange that the 160 exhaust tip fell off!! they are well sought after and tend to be really well made haha

As for the engine, the honda and Rover engines are different.

late 200 shape models dropped the Honda k for the Rover k, and they are the ones used in the car you listed, NOT the honda ones.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_K_engine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_K_engine

With new head bolts, dowels and the uprated MLS headgasket, its very rare for them to actually go again if all fitted correctly.

Tbh it's probes just through general use. But the engine it's self was in great working order through his 4 years of use.

Mk1 ph2 all the way though ;)

[f13sta]

all ways wanted one of these and still do even tho they have problems with the headgaskets. tbf so do saxo's and other french cars with the all alloy engine so no difference between them.

yes the dash is a little disappointing seats feel a little weird and the gear stick is too short. lol . but tbf every car will have its own problems and non are built properly now a days they all have some sort of shit designed something.

if your thinking of going from a saxo to one of these then tbf you won't notice any difference except it will be quicker.

oh avoid one that has not bee owned by a little old lady ortherwise the engines will be fooked .

[lighters]

After having drove my brothers VTS and now the main driver on my mums MGZR 120 I prefer the VTS as its more fun to drive but for a more "steady experience" for lack of a better word I would take the MGZR. VTS seemed slightly faster but both are fairly quick, however I would get a 160 if I was going to get 1 as the 0-60 times are the quickest as low RPM is 2nd gear is fairly slow which is where I find myself under normal driving conditions. Its very quick and great handling but you need to keep the revs high and not something I like doing as I hear they are notorious for headgasget failure and dont fancy getting any points :)

They look better than the saxo IMO and the reputation isnt as bad. The interior is very boring but so is the saxo's (1995?) MGZR Only done 27k miles since 2001 and has a few problems with exhaust corroding or something, sunroof leaks, heaters being seized/knobs snapping. Door handle coming off and back seat plastic bit fell off and thats everything thats gone wrong. Also started overheating a few days ago which my uncle thought it may have been the water pump but after drinking some water he checked the airfloor with green crap coming out of it and its been fine since so...?

Anyway recommend them but get atleast a 120 as they are heavy and tyres are expensive! (Also cheap as chips and insurance aint bad about group 9? for MGZR120)

[MiniGibbo]

My brother bought a 120+ new back in 2002 as he couldnt insure a 160, I personally thaught it was a bad move and isn't worth buying..

Either get the 105 or the 160 IMO.

[joe333]

Pile of wank mate them k series are shit shit shit!

[Cutz]

With new head bolts, dowels and the uprated MLS headgasket, its very rare for them to actually go again if all fitted correctly.

How much am I looking for these parts?

Are they fine to modify at all? Lowering/exhaust or is that not a problmem?

[Keefo]

you can get the kit for less than £30 if i remember rightly.

And you can lower easily (Avo springs for ZR), and get carback exhausts etc, just don't remove the cat as it doesnt increase the performance at all and in some cases can loose performance.

all parts are interchangeable so if you feel like getting the much better MK2 dask like i do, then just get one and fit it :-p just need a little bit of wiring skills for buttons etc haha
Also the MK2 back end is nicer, so ill be fitting that too ;)
Prefer the MK1 front though...

[Cutz]

Haha sounds good mate, glad I have asked now.. Was gonna do all the engine work mysel but it's probably worth having someone do it. Would an induction kit e alright to fit or will that rinse off petrol? Probs would be a Mk2, found one with 16k on which is tempting

Cutz

[SaxoVTR2008]

had a 2005 mg zr 105 for a year and didnt have one problem with it...

[Keefo]

Haha sounds good mate, glad I have asked now.. Was gonna do all the engine work mysel but it's probably worth having someone do it. Would an induction kit e alright to fit or will that rinse off petrol? Probs would be a Mk2, found one with 16k on which is tempting

Cutz

As long as its not a cone filter you will be all gdgd matey :)

or get a panel filter and remove the restricting pipe in the air box!

As most cars though you wont be getting mad power gains, when i did this to my 1.6 if felt a little snappier and more responsive though.

[sarajayne22]

MG ZR- Its just a rover dressed up all fancy...

[rick_VTR]

MG ZR- Its just a rover dressed up all fancy...



obviously, as its practically the same car you idiot.

do your research.

[Keefo]

MG ZR- Its just a rover dressed up all fancy...

They are dressed up all fancy, but also have polly bushes, sharper steering rack, better struts/springs.

Better seats inside (half leather Monoco's), depending on what version you get anyway haha

[rick_VTR]

They are dressed up all fancy, but also have polly bushes, sharper steering rack, better struts/springs.

Better seats inside (half leather Monoco's), depending on what version you get anyway haha


i was guna start listing all the stuff but i really could not be arsed haha.

[Cutz]

So what's with the SE's, Trophys etc? What's the best 105?

Cutz

[Cutz]

As long as its not a cone filter you will be all gdgd matey :)

or get a panel filter and remove the restricting pipe in the air box!

As most cars though you wont be getting mad power gains, when i did this to my 1.6 if felt a little snappier and more responsive though.

Cheers mate, if I do I would probs go k&n panel filter then. Thanks for your help mate, appreciate it!

Cutz

[Keefo]

So what's with the SE's, Trophys etc? What's the best 105?

Cutz

Just diffs specs etc

best 105 i would say is the + models, they have all the sexy trimmings, half leather interior etc

[mangojace]

i love how people on here say 'Not a fan of a mg, they will break'.

My mg zr trophy was alot more reliable than the saxo and there better at handling!

[Cutz]

That's my point, saxos haven't got a good reputation in any department really!! But we all still drive them..

[mangojace]

Exactly mate and safer in a crash!

[rick_VTR]

IMO. ZR+ 105 in XPOWER GREY is the best :)
17" straights FTW :)

[Stissy]

That's my point, saxos haven't got a good reputation in any department really!! But we all still drive them..

its because they look so beautiful

[MiniGibbo]

They are dressed up all fancy, but also have polly bushes, sharper steering rack, better struts/springs.

Better seats inside (half leather Monoco's), depending on what version you get anyway haha

Who told you that?

[f13sta]

mg became rovers tuning depertment just like amg are to merc or apina are to bmw

the zr got good reviews on top gear so they can't be all bad can they lol .

the SE is the mk2 and is the top of the range as it comes with air con ect.
iirc the + models were the mk1 top spec. but don't quote me on that been a while since i looked into them lol.

but a must wih one of these is you have o have em in a proper lary colour suck as yello wor biomorphic green or nightfire red can' have one of these in black imo.

[rick_VTR]

mg became rovers tuning depertment just like amg are to merc or apina are to bmw

the zr got good reviews on top gear so they can't be all bad can they lol .

the SE is the mk2 and is the top of the range as it comes with air con ect.
iirc the + models were the mk1 top spec. but don't quote me on that been a while since i looked into them lol.

but a must wih one of these is you have o have em in a proper lary colour suck as yello wor biomorphic green or nightfire red can' have one of these in black imo.



Xpower Grey FTW :)

[MiniGibbo]

My dad bought a mk1 180+ the same time my brother bought his mk1 zr 120+ so your probaly right.

I know my dads now got a zt v8, and the highest model in the range is the SE with leather, aircon and the digi screen etc etc..

[endlesstimes]

erghh "sighs & rolls eyes".