Driveshaft, gearbox oil and brake hoses!

[Simo]

I thought Id make one post, rather than three or so :P

Today was the first day I found time to work on the car wince the driveshaft snapped on track at FCS at the end of May. :errr:

Ive fitted a second hand driveshaft, which should hopefully see me through the next few months.

I still find it quite odd that the shaft snapped in the position it has!??

Anyway... moving on.

I drained the gerabox oil, to make the driveshaft swap less messy/rushed. The gearbox oil was fresh in befor ethe track session. I used 75w/90 semi synthetic oil, which was recommended to me.

The gearbox/car did about 50 miles out on track and about 100 miles driving to the track. Its not been driven since.

The oil looked FULL of metallic particles... quite worrying dont you think? I know the box will have taken a hammering on the track, but this looks a little excessive considering the low miles covered.

What gear oils do you guys use??

Lastly...

Has anyone had problems removing the standard brake hoses? This is now the only thing stopping me from getting my new Hi-spec 325mm discs and calipers on the car.

The brake hose nut is now rounded as nothing will shift it. It looks like I will be cutting it off and having a new hose made up, or buy one direct from Citroen.

Any comments?

[Simo]

I will be partially re-doing the driveshaft fitment when I re-attempt the brake hoses... as when I put it back together there was far too much play in the hub/driveshaft. LIke a worn bearing, but much worse.

I assumed this may be because the driveshaft wasnt seated properly when I tightened the driveshaft nut on (I locked the hub inplace using a wheel bolt, which will stop it from pulling in and).

But... could there be another reason for this?

The knackered shaft in this pic is a reconditioned unit, which lasted 2 days. THe replacement one is a 2nd hand one, but its from a Mk2 VTS.

The shaft near the intermediate bearing looks a different diameter. I assumed the re-con unit was wrong, but maybe its a Mk1 v's Mk2 thing?

Thoughts?

[Simo]

Does anyone know if there is a difference bewtween Mk1 and Mk2 VTS driveshafts????????????

[saxoash]

Must be as them are different in the pics

[Natalie]

Does anyone know if there is a difference bewtween Mk1 and Mk2 VTS driveshafts????????????

Yeah there is. The Mk1 is slightly longer I believe. After 1999 they changed it. The hub is smaller on cars 1999 onwards

The catalogue was wrong where I bought my driveshaft and I ended up with a mk 1 driveshaft which caused the wheel bearing to come loose on my car

That was a VTR but I think they are the same driveshaft

[Ratty]

there isnt such a thing as a mk1 or mk2 shafts but there are 4 types of shaft

1) normal shaft, flat end joining hub
2) normal shaft, tapered end joining hub
3) longer end at hub, flat end joining hub
4) longer end at hub, tapered end joining hub

they appear throughout the range, it doesnt seem to depend on when you bought your car as ive seen all mk1 and mk2 saxos have any combination of these as standard (which is the only good time i can see citroen asking for a chassis no, but no good if you have done a conversion)

I have no idea how you managed to snap that, obviously if the wrong type of driveshaft was in or if it wasnt tight enough it will destroy the bearing, but the only way you could of snapped that is if the tyre gripped and didnt turn and the box wanted too (im sure that side is the only one with permanant drive although i could be wrong) but id expect any of the cv joints to go and shatter before you snapped that.

I dont think its because of it being a second hand shaft.

Is it one you have broke or 2?

also the brake pipe, just cut it off and replace the pipe from any normal motorfactors (it doesnt have to be pre-bent, just get a simula length and bend it yourself) as you will have to bleed the brakes when you put the 4 pots on anyways (or you should).

[Ratty]

sorry and the only difference on the longer shafts (apart from the tapered hubs) is the hub nut is longer on the longer shafts, so if you got a shaft that had a longer or shorter shaft depending on what you started with, you just need to swap the nuts for a long or short one. (but you must get the correct end for the hub otherwise it will eat the bearing within weeks)

:D

[Simo]

ok... lets try and summarise my situation :P

The shaft snapped whilst on track (can be seen in premium video seciton), accelerating hard in 2nd after a chicane, changed to 3rd and no drive = snapped shaft. VERY bizarre.

I've only snapped the driverside. I dont thin kIm too concerned about the thread length... like you say, there are different nuts to suit.

The 2nd hand one I fitted last night had long threads and I had a 'long' nut to go with it.

However the shaft is sitting very loose in the hub. This could be because its tapered/not tapered??

I had assumed it was because I had a bolt keeping the hub locked whilst i tightened the shaft nut up? (ive had this problem before)

Ive never seen a shaft feel this loose/wobbly though. I plan to take the wheel off tomorrow, whip the ball joint pin out of the wishbone and see if it will seat better. If not, it must be the wrong taper shaft?

Regarding the brake hoses... I plan to change these tomorrow too. I was going to have a pipe made at local motor factors, but I was surprised to hear Citroen sell the pipes very cheaply too. £5.50 for the drivers side pipe running from ABS pack to caliper... and I guess the passenger side will eb cheaper. I ordered both and will arrive tomorrow.

All this messing about and Im going to blow it up on track again in 11 days :P

[Simo]

Picture file>>> :P

Passenger side old shaft & re-manufactured replacement. Both showing short threaded type. (the remanufactured shaft only lasted 1 day.. as the next day the diff blew and took the shaft with it)

http://www.sax-p.net/upload/shafta.jpg



Original drivers side shaft... again showing short threaded type, same as the passenger side.

http://www.sax-p.net/upload/shaftb.jpg



The 2nd replacement drivers side shaft (on the right) which snapped on the track. Again showing short threaded style. The shaft on the left is the 2nd hand driveshaft which I am currently fitting to the car. This shaft shows the longer threaded end.


http://www.sax-p.net/upload/shaftc.jpg


Soooooooooooo, it looks like every shaft I have fitted in the past has been of the short threaded type. THe taper could look different on the last photo too, which could be causing the loose fit/wobble. I guess I'll have to have a look up close tomorrow.

[Simo]

Ok... My patience got the better of me so Ive just gone to the shed to dig out two shafts and a spare hub :P

Now the difference is clear. :A:

Its not the mating face of the driveshaft that is tapered, its the shaft. SO straight shaft or tapered shaft.

This means that there must be two types of bearing too... tapered and straight. All evidencve suggests that my bearings are straight cut and so the tapered shaft which I have fitted will not be suitable.

Hopefully this info will be useful to other people too ;)

Thanks for the pointers Ratty!! :A:


Tapered versus straight shaft
http://www.sax-p.net/upload/shaftd.jpg


http://www.sax-p.net/upload/shafte.jpg


Tapered shaft mating with a straight faced bearing...
http://www.sax-p.net/upload/shaftf.jpg

[Baz]

im well lost in this thread haha! i just wanting to see these brakes fitted which are bigger than my steelies hehe. no doubt what you have discovered, or think you have discovered is useful to someone :P

[Simo]

:P

What I have discovered means that fitment of the bigbrakes will be delayed by an extra day, as I will have to order another new shaft tomorrow. :err:

I spoke to the supplier of the snapped one today and they want to send it away for inspection, yadda, yadda.... So looks like I will buy a replacement shaft and try to blag some money back on the snapped one.

I dont have much faith in the motor factor re-con units though as everytime I fit one it snaps or breaks within a week :(

I think the Citroen shafts are over £200 though, which is more than twice the price.

Im off to Citroen in the morning to pick up my brake lines, so will get a price then :P

D'oh!

[Baz]

ah :P

if you had bought a Citroen one right away it may have last longer then 3 weeks which would of been moneys worth the rate you go through them!!

[Simo]

Aye... the original knackered drivers side shaft was a Citroen item :P It lasted five years. LOL!

[Baz]

Aye... the original knackered drivers side shaft was a Citroen item :P It lasted five years. LOL!


well....maybe you should buy some common sense when you buy this next driveshaft ;)

[Simo]

If you'd have seen the bills on my last shopping trip preparing for the trackday, you might have bought a cheaper shaft too :P

Anyway...

[Ratty]

Simo: Correct about the wheel bearings, this is why if you fit the wrong type (an unless you know will you ever check? and how many people just fit it with a little play) then your wheel bearing goes.

Still only guessing as above on you snapped one :D

[Simo]

Feckin brake pipes are now on back-order until the 22nd :err:

Back to Plan A - have them made at local motor factors.

Im off to order a new drveshaft now and try to get some money bak on the snappd one :P

[boz]

simo
i had the same probs with my brake lines, i just used a lot of WD40 then used mole grips to take it off the caliper.
i chickend out with removing it further up, as i didnt want to bust the copper piping. so i left the origional hose instead of fitting the braided ones LOL
i will need to replace the whole lot i think when the time comes round to me actually fitting the braided hoses.

glad to see every thing is coming back together nicely after the FCS misshap.

im so jelious of those spanking new massive brakes! :)

[Simo]

I tried using the std flexy hoses John, but the disc diameter is just too big... couldnt get full lock with out the hoses stretching about 2 inches :P

So, I chopped though the metal pipes and had new ones made today. Only cost about £3.50 for a pair.

I couldnt get the nipple to undo out of the ABS unit either, so that was chopped and undone iwth a 11mm socket :P

===========

Ive fitted a new driveshaft today... a short threaded non-tapered shaft unit and it fits perfectly!!! So there's a lesson learnt!

Now, my only issue is that the feckin new brake lines and the new braided hoses wont screw together as the threaded socket isnt deep enough for both ends. D'oh!!

[boz]

nightmare!

never knew it was that cheap to replace the old brake lines, might do this when i get time and fit the braided hoses lol

i carnt wait to see these discs in the flesh, they must be fecking HUGE!
so shes going to last a bit longer around silverstone then? :) fingers crossed

[Simo]

There was absolutely no way in this world that the brake lines would unscrew... not in a way which meant I could tighten the nipples up again :P

I had to chisel the passenger side out of the ABS block :err:

THe brakes should last much better out on track, as the rushed-together brakes were appauling at FCS.

The car has to survive Bruntingthorpe first though, as Im back there next Saturday :P

I'm considering buying a trailer :P