406 Brake upgrade

[link_heroz]

I've just read the 406 brake upgrade guide and it said the v6 calipers will bolt straight onto the saxo. Would the rest of the 283mm calipers on the rest of the 406s fit straight on too?

[jones91]

It depends on what size wheels you have

[link_heroz]

By the time i get round to doing it, 15"

[welshpug]

no they wont fit, they'd need smaller discs than 283mm and a different offset, there arent any off the shelf that'll work

if you want 283mm buy some gti6 or phase1 xsara vts brakes.

[link_heroz]

If the 406 V6 calipers fit how come the rest of them don't?

[jones91]

The 406 v6 calipers won't bolt straight on, as above if you want 283mm brakes then go for 306gti 6 or ph1 xsara vts brakes

[Mochachino]

406 brembo's found on the V6 fit straight on.

You can use 406 283mm slider single pot calipers but you need gti6 carriers etc, so you may aswell get gti6 brakes in the first place.

but theyre heavy so a waste of time anyway, stick to 4pot calipers or 266mm slider calipers found on 206 gtis etc

[link_heroz]

406 brembo's found on the V6 fit straight on.

You can use 406 283mm slider single pot calipers but you need gti6 carriers etc, so you may aswell get gti6 brakes in the first place.

but theyre heavy so a waste of time anyway, stick to 4pot calipers or 266mm slider calipers found on 206 gtis etc

what size would you say would be best instead of a 283mm?

[Mochachino]

266mm, much lighter setup than the 283's and just as capable really.

[swampy]

All depends on the intended use for the car

My 306 was running 160bhp and I ran the standerd 266mm calipers

Granted I ran braided hoses, BREMBO max disks and top spec paid rs4 2 blue pads

And I never had a problem on the road or track

[jeffchiz]

IIRC you use the xantia v6 288 discs with the 406 brembos as these have the right offset you can use 206 gti 180 discs but the discs have a slightly wrong offset so they squeel

[blackie_2k5]

im running xantia v6 288s theyre huge and look cool as fuck...but after 2ki they squeel lol

it seems to be only one variant of actual disc that doesnt, if you keep the shit plates clean they dont squeel

brembos are known for squeeling, they squeel on the 406 ;)

aswel as evos etc

[AXracing]

Never really noticed then squeeling my self. Well no more then any other brake i have used. Its often down to pads used.

[jeffchiz]

Never really noticed then squeeling my self. Well no more then any other brake i have used. Its often down to pads used.

well the whole debate on which discs to use on the brembos is all down to different offsets, thats what makes them squeek, my house mate had 206 gti 180 discs and they squeeled worse than a virgin, he changed them to xantia v6 discs with a different offset and they have stopped squeeling, int he 406 brembos guide it says something similar

[link_heroz]

the guide i read on here said use the 406 brembos and the xantia discs.

[swampy]

well the whole debate on which discs to use on the brembos is all down to different offsets, thats what makes them squeek, my house mate had 206 gti 180 discs and they squeeled worse than a virgin, he changed them to xantia v6 discs with a different offset and they have stopped squeeling, int he 406 brembos guide it says something similar

But even on the 406 v6 coupe with brembos on like mine running genuine pads and disks they squeal now and again

[Jac000001]

with this upgrade is it recommended to get a bigger master cylinder i.e 23 or 24mm? and if so whats the difference between 2 and 4 port?

[RyanSaxo]

with this upgrade is it recommended to get a bigger master cylinder i.e 23 or 24mm? and if so whats the difference between 2 and 4 port?

yes.

and the 2 port is for abs cars iirc.

[jeffchiz]

with this upgrade is it recommended to get a bigger master cylinder i.e 23 or 24mm? and if so whats the difference between 2 and 4 port?

2 port is for cars with abs 4 is for cars without, down to personal preference, I had 283 mm brakes on my gti and I thought it was fine however my housemate fitted the 23mm master cylinder on his 106 with brembos

[link_heroz]

So if i were to go for the 283mm upgrade, from none abs standard discs and pads, what exactly would i need?

[jeffchiz]

So if i were to go for the 283mm upgrade, from none abs standard discs and pads, what exactly would i need?

Which 283mm upgrade? The gti6 brakes or brembos?

[link_heroz]

Which 283mm upgrade? The gti6 brakes or brembos?

ether. whichever works out cheaper if they're both 283mm

[jeffchiz]

ether. whichever works out cheaper if they're both 283mm

well if your looking for chepest then it would be the gti-6 brakes, the brembos are more than double the price usually

well if you want brembos you need the 406 v6 calipers, carriers and pads and the 288mm xantia 3.0 v6 discs

with the gti6 brakes you need the calipers, carriers, pads, discs all from the 306 gti-6

you can use std hoses and master cylinders with both, however with the brembos i would get longer hoses, ive seen brembos fitted with std length hoses and they did look rather stretched lol and the 23mm master cylinder will just reduce pedal travel, fit a 4 port one if you dont have abs and a 2 port if your car has abs

[blackie_2k5]

I've ran standard master online for 18months with the 4 pots

Once you get used to the extra travel it's fine

[jeffchiz]

I've ran standard master online for 18months with the 4 pots

Once you get used to the extra travel it's fine

same here i didnt see anything wrong lol

[link_heroz]

i take it they both give the same amount of braking force or is one better than the other?

[jeffchiz]

i take it they both give the same amount of braking force or is one better than the other?

well the brembos are a 4 pot caliper and the gti-6 brakes are a 2 pot caliper so the brembos will be more powerful hence why they are more expensive

[welshpug]

well the brembos are a 4 pot caliper and the gti-6 brakes are a 2 pot caliper so the brembos will be more powerful hence why they are more expensive

fail gti6 are single piston.

the number of pistons will not purely make them more powerful, what if they are smaller? you'll get less pressure on the pads with them...


brembos are purely more expensive because they are alloy and don't sell as many.

[link_heroz]

so not really much of a difference?

[jeffchiz]

fail gti6 are single piston.

the number of pistons will not purely make them more powerful, what if they are smaller? you'll get less pressure on the pads with them...


brembos are purely more expensive because they are alloy and don't sell as many.

sorry i meant single piston, i was typing quickly and just halved the number of pistons on the brembos

i was going to say you are paying for the brand and the fact they are very light compared to gti-6 calipers, i have had both sets sat in my shed

do you know if the 4 pistons in the brembos are smaller than the single one in the gti-6 caliper? if not then your answer is as useless as mine was and were both guessing, but i get your point just because there is 4 pistons doesnt mean 100% they will be better other details would be needed..

however having 2 pistons on each pad either side of the disc im pretty sure the brembos will have a higher braking force, and the fact they are fitted to a big heavy car with 200 bhp

[welshpug]

40+38mm pistons vs single 57mm (57mm sliding) (you disregard one side to calculate the surface areas)

(12.56+11.34) 23.90 cm2 vs 25.51 cm2, gti6 actually had a larger piston surface area!


they aren't that light actually, 4 kilos, though a good 2 kilos lighter than the gti6 caliper, the discs make up for it meaning both setups weigh the same!

[link_heroz]

So which would be better in terms of braking force then?

[RyanSaxo]

40+38mm pistons vs single 57mm (57mm sliding) (you disregard one side to calculate the surface areas)

(12.56+11.34) 23.90 cm2 vs 25.51 cm2, gti6 actually had a larger piston surface area!


they aren't that light actually, 4 kilos, though a good 2 kilos lighter than the gti6 caliper, the discs make up for it meaning both setups weigh the same!

but braking force is surely nothing to do with piston surface area?

just as it's nothing to do with pad surface area? friction has nothing to do with area, but the force that's applied. Obviously that's assuming the disk size and more importantly the distance of the edge of the pad to the centre of the disk is the same for both.

However, I'm assuming the 4 pots can apply more force than a single piston?

Either way, OP, with good pads and disks I'm pretty sure that the gti6 is plenty good enough for a saxo (unless you're running stupid power).

The tyres are the limiting factor, fitting gti6 brakes with r888's will run rings round a car with 4pots and budget tyres (obviously extreme examples).

I assume, OP, that you're at least running good road tyres before debating which brakes?

[link_heroz]

I assume, OP, that you're at least running good road tyres before debating which brakes?

of course, i only asked as i'd seen a 406 in local scrappy and wondered if all the calipers were the same

[wicked-vtr]

Just my 2 pence, but i ran gti6 discs on my Brembos and they where find, didn't squeel and where plenty strong.

There up for grabs if anyones interested ;)

[Mochachino]

Why are you commited to 283mm setups or something there abouts?

Either get the Brembo's or a 266mm setup. The gti6 setup just isnt efficient on a low powered saxo.

[Mochachino]

of course, i only asked as i'd seen a 406 in local scrappy and wondered if all the calipers were the same

What tyres?

[Nasonic]

Anyone know what hoses (metal if possible) I can use when ill put that Calipers (brembo 4 pistons 406 v6), in my saxo?
At the moment i am using Saxo metal hoses. But i dont really know if they are long enough to those brakes.

[jeffchiz]

Anyone know what hoses (metal if possible) I can use when ill put that Calipers (brembo 4 pistons 406 v6), in my saxo?
At the moment i am using Saxo metal hoses. But i dont really know if they are long enough to those brakes.

pm swampy he'll make you some up

ive jsut fitted gti6 brakes wish i went for 266's my schmidts dont fit over them :( however i love the look of them behind the sirocco alloys ive fitted, fills the wheel perfectly lol