Driving with a Burqa.... Yes or No ?

[Carlvtr88]

I see it every day and I'm just wondering, whats the difference between wearing a burqa whilst driving and tinting your front windows ? Based on the fact both cover your identity ?

Also, may I add that I would imagine it reduces your field of view.

I see it daily, several times round B'ham and i've been pulled out on many times by people wearing one. I just put it down to them not having full vision, but it does piss me off.

France banned them... what you reckon ?

Keep it clean and discuss.

[Baz]

risky subject....

[manta]

risky subject....

Tom Cruise.

I'd imagine it affects your peripheral? vision.

[Carl-h]

I thought tinted front windows were illegal because of not being able to see enough out rather than hiding identity?

There are certain motorcycle helmets that are not road legal as you can't see enough out of them, so yes I do disagree with them.

[Carlvtr88]

risky subject....

Why... apart from the fact there may be some who cant keep it clean.

Is that what you mean ?

[McGuire86]

You can tint your front windows to a point anyway.

And protect your identity from who ? The Police ? Well they will have their records from the number plate and if they don't then that's a completely different matter.

Don't see the problem tbh. It's wearing them whilst walking down the street which I should think be banned.

[Baz]

Why... apart from the fact there may be some who cant keep it clean.

Is that what you mean ?

exactly that!

[Pink1991]

I don't think its wrong while driving but on the street and stuff I do. I can't walk into a shop with my hood up and a mask on ill get thrown out or told to take it off, so why should they be allowed to wear them?

[L33h]

They should be illegal all together

[saladdodger]

whats the difference between wearing a burqa whilst driving and tinting your front windows ?

Completly different, window tinting restricts the 'see through' view

Also, may I add that I would imagine it reduces your field of view.


Yes, I have to agree with some I have seen, almost like blinkers on a horse some of them.

I guess the Law with deal with this as and when.

[Rogue_Shadow]

Never seen it
But would disagree with it.
It prevents a full field of vision and increases the already existing blind spots

http://www.highstakesnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/58744banned.jpg

[0rang3peel]

in 6 years of driving i've not seen one person driving with a burka!

personally, I don't give a shit.

[AXracing]

I suspect if there was a crash and some one was wearing one it could be a issue.

[vtr_steve_]

are you for real
you must drive in areas where there are no burka wearing people or whatever you call them

in 6 years of driving i've not seen one person driving with a burka!

personally, I don't give a shit.

[Viper]

I see it every day and I'm just wondering, whats the difference between wearing a burqa whilst driving and tinting your front windows ? Based on the fact both cover your identity ?

As has been said, window tints is about the driver's view, not someone else's view in.

i've been pulled out on many times by people wearing one. I just put it down to them not having full vision, but it does piss me off.


I put it down to them being retarded. People without a burka have pulled out on me before too..

I don't think its wrong while driving but on the street and stuff I do. I can't walk into a shop with my hood up and a mask on ill get thrown out or told to take it off, so why should they be allowed to wear them?

Why would you walk into a shop with a mask on? :S

[matt_vtr_15a]

burqa wearing individuals also drive at 20 in a 30, cut you up and are the most ignorant drivers on the road...

from my experience of driving through a heavily populated area of urban ninjas...


and they drive nissan primeras mainly :y:

[Carlvtr88]

when I mentioned the tints I'm more referring to the fact your identity is covered. As it would be with a burqa. That was my logic anyway.

" orangepeel " you sound like the government..... It doesn't happen by me so I dont care, it's not a problem.

I imagine knife crime, gun crime, rape, paedophiles, terrorism, illegal immigration and drugs rarely happen where these rich MP's live. But the problems exist.

Not having a go, just saying.

[Viper]

burqa wearing individuals also drive at 20 in a 30, cut you up and are the most ignorant drivers on the road...

from my experience of driving through a heavily populated area of urban ninjas...


and they drive nissan primeras mainly :y:

I'm sure if you drove in a ninja free area you would see all that when driving too.

[cruze]

as far as front tints go i think they have to let atleast 33% light through, could be wrong though. .
as far as burkas go . . . ban them like france

[McGuire86]

when I mentioned the tints I'm more referring to the fact your identity is covered. As it would be with a burqa. That was my logic anyway.

" orangepeel " you sound like the government..... It doesn't happen by me so I dont care, it's not a problem.

I imagine knife crime, gun crime, rape, paedophiles, terrorism, illegal immigration and drugs rarely happen where these rich MP's live. But the problems exist.

Not having a go, just saying.

Why do you want to know the 'identity' of everyone who drives past you ?

[Viper]

I imagine knife crime, gun crime, rape, paedophiles, terrorism, illegal immigration and drugs rarely happen where these rich MP's live. But the problems exist.

You just compared a burka to gun crime, rape etc didn't you?

Wow.

[stevo67]

in 6 years of driving i've not seen one person driving with a burka!

personally, I don't give a shit.

Me neither but i`ve seen asian guy wearing a turban whilst riding a moped(no crash helmet)

[AXracing]

Why would you walk into a shop with a mask on? :S
I wear a helmet when on the bike that amounts to the same thing. My local petrol station has a sign that tells you to take it off before doing in. Its a pain but i do it. But i think his point stands. Whey do i have to take my hood/helmet off when they dont.

[GC_Belfast]

Ban them outright.

[Viper]

Me neither but i`ve seen asian guy wearing a turban whilst riding a moped(no crash helmet)

I've seen non asians/muslims riding a moped without a helmet too. Why does the turban matter?

I wear a helmet when on the bike that amounts to the same thing. My local petrol station has a sight that tells you to take it off before doing in. Its a pain but i do it. But i think his point stands. Whey do i have to take my hood/helmet off when they dont.

I don't see why you would go in with the helmet on anyway?

If you're on the motorway and nip in to buy a drink I assume you would take the helmet off then, yes?

[Carlvtr88]

Why do you want to know the 'identity' of everyone who drives past you ?

My point was just based on if you commit a crime like stealing fuel. Burqa, hoody or tints..... cameras dont see through any of these.

[McGuire86]

My point was just based on if you commit a crime like stealing fuel. Burqa, hoody or tints..... cameras dont see through any of these.

But they see the registration plate :y:

[Carlvtr88]

You just compared a burka to gun crime, rape etc didn't you?

Wow.

not directly I'm just making a point. Saying, " I dont see it so I dont care " thats what a lot of people think. Ignoring something just cause you dont see it dont mean it's not going on.

[Viper]

But they see the registration plate :y:

Yeah but all people that wear burkas are criminals, obviously :S

[McGuire86]

I don't see why you would go in with the helmet on anyway?

If you're on the motorway and nip in to buy a drink I assume you would take the helmet off then, yes?

But you shouldn't have to though. There shouldn't be rules for one person then rules for someone else.
This is supposed to be a Democracy...

[Carlvtr88]

But they see the registration plate :y:

yeah cause if you steal fuel you use your own plates dont you ....

[McGuire86]

yeah cause if you steal fuel you use your own plates dont you ....

Then that would be using a stolen or unregistered car which is a completely different crime....

[Carlvtr88]

Yeah but all people that wear burkas are criminals, obviously :S

Points going a little out of context. I'm merely referring to the fact with tints your covering your identity as with a burqa. I suppose in my head I was thinking full tints were illegal on front because people cant see in, not the driver unable to see as much out.

I suppose I was looking at it from a incident of crime and from a police point of view.

Either way. I think another valid point is raised above, about having to remove a helmet yet burqa fully covers you.


Personally I think its a statement of " I dont really wish to adapt to western ways even though I'm in the country. " Maybe it's just me.

[Viper]

But you shouldn't have to though. There shouldn't be rules for one person then rules for someone else.
This is supposed to be a Democracy...

I can see your point completely, I just don't see why you would keep the helmet on in the first place

yeah cause if you steal fuel you use your own plates dont you ....

Some people do, and if they don't then it will be as McGuire has said.

Then that would be using a stolen or unregistered car which is a completely different crime....

Exactly! If it is stolen it will be flagged on the ANPR cameras anyway.

It may be an issue if the reg plate was wearing a burka.

[AXracing]

I don't see why you would go in with the helmet on anyway?

But why do I have to take it off? If people wearing a burqa do not have to show there face then no one should be made to or its just discrimination. As for why I would want to not take my helmet off as I said its a pain. I wear glasses when i drive/ride and getting a full face helmet on or off with glasses is a pain.

[haz_pro]

I can see your point completely, I just don't see why you would keep the helmet on in the first place

Convenience, no other reason needed.

[manta]

No discussion needed.

They should be banned.

/thread

Can we not have an argument tonight please Viper, I've got uni work to do and I'm feeling dumber than usual.

Thanks

Sax

[Carlvtr88]

Convenience, no other reason needed.

Imagine the uproar.

we ask them to remove their burqas on entry to a shop, but were allowed to keep our helmets on. Racist cries would be heard. But were not allowed to complain the other way around..... what ?

[Heliosphan]

But why do I have to take it off? If people wearing a burqa do not have to show there face then no one should be made to or its just discrimination. As for why I would want to not take my helmet off as I said its a pain. I wear glasses when i drive/ride and getting a full face helmet on or off with glasses is a pain.

There's no satisfactory answer other than the fact that it is a religious concession, even though it's more cultural.

I'm sure you know that the authorities tend to do their best to avoid upsetting religious minorities, particularly muslims.

[Carlvtr88]

There's no satisfactory answer other than the fact that it is a religious concession, even though it's more cultural.

I'm sure you know that the authorities tend to do their best to avoid upsetting religious minorities, particularly muslims.

But dont give a shizzle about the natives. I do wonder if said peoples countries would allow us to dictate what is and isnt allowed if many of us migrated to their homeland. Thats what pisses people off i think. Yet over here we bend over backwards to make sure we dont offend. France got it bang on IMO, they decided it doesnt fit with their way of life and recognised the downsides of allowing it. Someone put their foot down and said no, yet over here they wont do it, in fear of the racist cries that would inevitably follow.

[cyne]

No discussion needed.

They should be banned.

/thread

Can we not have an argument tonight please Viper, I've got uni work to do and I'm feeling dumber than usual.

Thanks

Sax

Your cap and hoody should also be banned.

No discussion needed. /thread.

[Viper]

No discussion needed.

They should be banned.

/thread

Can we not have an argument tonight please Viper, I've got uni work to do and I'm feeling dumber than usual.

Thanks

Sax

Go away.

Convenience, no other reason needed.

Fair enough.

There's no satisfactory answer other than the fact that it is a religious concession, even though it's more cultural.

No, it's religious.

But dont give a shizzle about the natives.

A lot of them ARE natives...

[manta]

Your cap and hoody should also be banned.

No discussion needed. /thread.

Are you referring to my display picture?

That's Sox aka Tom Hannah, I need to change it the joke is pretty dead now.

xx

Love you Viper, best wishes.

[Gazer]

Exactly! If it is stolen it will be flagged on the ANPR cameras anyway.

It may be an issue if the reg plate was wearing a burka.

What if they was cloned....

I know what you mean Carl and i agree, It must hamper ones vision to an extent...

[Heliosphan]

No, it's religious.

Are there any religious scriptures that state a muslim woman should wear a burka...or does it state that they should simply dress 'modestly'.

[0110craig]

No different to driving around with a balaclava on really.. I'm sure that wouldn't go down well.

[Viper]

Are there any religious scriptures that state a muslim woman should wear a burka...or does it state that they should simply dress 'modestly'.

Ok, I'm wrong. I just asked my Uncle :y:

That hurt, not used to being wrong :D

[Jizanthapus]

No different to driving around with a balaclava on really.. I'm sure that wouldn't go down well.

Exactly. But no, it's 'religious'

I agree with everyone, jus ban them, get your face out for the lads!!

[Heliosphan]

Ok, I'm wrong. I just asked my Uncle :y:

That hurt, not used to being wrong :D

It's fine fellow Yorkshireman. ;)

[Jazz]

Are there any religious scriptures that state a muslim woman should wear a burka...or does it state that they should simply dress 'modestly'.

Indeed it isn't actually a religious requirement at all, yet simply the recommendation is to dress modestly, as per my understanding of it.

It is more of a Saudi Arabian tradition to wear it, hence France choosing to ban it because it isn't actually a religious requirement at all, merely a cultural one.

Personally I think if they would like to wear it they should be able to. It doesn't bother me in the least.

[Viper]

Indeed it isn't actually a religious requirement at all, yet simply the recommendation is to dress modestly, as per my understanding of it.

It is more of a Saudi Arabian tradition to wear it, hence France choosing to ban it because it isn't actually a religious requirement at all, merely a cultural one.

Personally I think if they would like to wear it they should be able to. It doesn't bother me in the least.

Are you from the Burka tribe?

[23carragold]

..............

[Jazz]

Are you from the Burka tribe?

Almost.

I'm from the Balaclava massive

http://wilsworldofwords.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/balaclava.jpg

[Viper]

I mean, really can it bother you that much?

I think you forget we're all terrorists :y:

[Jazz]

Surely if someone chooses to wear it to respect their own religion, why would it bother you?



It's comments like these that concern me. Ignorance and trust in the mainstream perceptions on burkha's makes people look quite foolish when saying they should ban them outright. I mean, really can it bother you that much?

Very valid points 23Carragold.

If people want to wear it for personal reasons, they should be left alone.

[manta]

It's comments like these that concern me. Ignorance and trust in the mainstream perceptions on burkha's makes people look quite foolish when saying they should ban them outright. I mean, really can it bother you that much?

Maybe you could say I am ignorant when it comes to these things, I don't want to cause offence to anyone but I personally do find a problem with it and it should be sorted.

It's just things I've seen through my years of growing up that gives me this attitude. It might not be the right attitude but we're all allowed our own opinions as long as it doesn't cause offence right?

[Carlvtr88]

Indeed it isn't actually a religious requirement at all, yet simply the recommendation is to dress modestly, as per my understanding of it.

It is more of a Saudi Arabian tradition to wear it, hence France choosing to ban it because it isn't actually a religious requirement at all, merely a cultural one.

Personally I think if they would like to wear it they should be able to. It doesn't bother me in the least.

I thought it was a demand from some of the husbands. Going back to why I started this thread, personally driving with one on is a little dodgy if you ask me, for several reasons mainly the visibility and anyone could use one as an excuse to cover their face.

[Viper]

Maybe you could say I am ignorant when it comes to these things, I don't want to cause offence to anyone but I personally do find a problem with it and it should be sorted.

What is your problem with it?

[Jazz]

I don't want to cause offence to anyone but I personally do find a problem with it and it should be sorted.

What is the problem with a woman covering herself up for modesty?

Surely it is better than walking round semi-naked inviting somebody to rape her? :detective:

[23carragold]

...............

[McGuire86]

For the record, it makes me laugh how people jump to the defence of foreign religions saying they should be left alone etc..

Yet some of these very same people are the first ones to slate, mock and disrespect a Catholic or any Catholicism/Christianity topics.

Example, the nurse who was sacked from her job because she refused to remove her corss necklace whilst at work even though it was hidden.

Pot kettle black

[Viper]

For the record, it makes me laugh how people jump to the defence of foreign religions saying they should be left alone etc..

Yet some of these very same people are the first ones to slate, mock and disrespect a Catholic or any Catholicism/Christianity topics.

Example, the nurse who was sacked from her job because she refused to remove her corss necklace whilst at work even though it was hidden.

Pot kettle black

It's not acceptable for ANY religion to be discriminated against.

[AXracing]

For the record, it makes me laugh how people jump to the defence of foreign religions saying they should be left alone etc..

Yet some of these very same people are the first ones to slate, mock and disrespect a Catholic or any Catholicism/Christianity topics.

Example, the nurse who was sacked from her job because she refused to remove her corss necklace whilst at work even though it was hidden.

Pot kettle black

Its because most people are not interested in being open they are just after there own interests.

[Jazz]

For the record, it makes me laugh how people jump to the defence of foreign religions saying they should be left alone etc..

Yet some of these very same people are the first ones to slate, mock and disrespect a Catholic or any Catholicism/Christianity topics.

Example, the nurse who was sacked from her job because she refused to remove her corss necklace whilst at work even though it was hidden.

Pot kettle black

Fair point which I agree with.

I don't think any religion should be slated or mocked at all. Christianity is a backbone belief of this country, and it should be respected as such.

Respect for all. One love :drink:

[manta]

What is your problem with it?

I just don't like the fact it hides the person's identity.

I don't mean to go back to the whole "I can't go into a post office with a helmet on" argument but there you go.

[Viper]

I just don't like the fact it hides the person's identity.

I don't mean to go back to the whole "I can't go into a post office with a helmet on" argument but there you go.

You must shit yourself when someone on a motorbike rides past you then.

Anyway, what does it matter if it 'hides their identity'? You don't know who they are anyway.

[AzzAW93]

I just don't like the fact it hides the person's identity.

I don't mean to go back to the whole "I can't go into a post office with a helmet on" argument but there you go.

if your that bothered about going into a post office fully covered, just buy a burqa?

[Carlvtr88]

Couldn't have put it better. Genuinely cannot see how you would have a problem when this is clearly an honourable reason for wearing it.

Carl...your idea of the burka is quite concerning. It's that mentality that breeds hate. Hopefully you will understand it a bit better now.

I think theres a lot of opinions floating round . I dont intend to cause offence but sometimes ( these days ) you cant get your opinion over without offending someone. Perhaps we dont understand the burqa just as much as said person doesnt understand why it is seen as a threat in our society.

Most people have a difficult time seeing someone on the road wearing something that reduces visibility and hides identity. I am one of those people.

As for it being a choice, if so, then in each case, fair enough, but I heard from my gf, who is friends with an Asian lady at work, that she was forced marriage with her cousin. Now on top of occasionally hitting her and being very controlling, he wants her to now wear a burqa. This isn't hear say either its fact. It might not be the same in all situations I appreciate that, I'm just making a point that things like this do happen and this is why there is such varied opinion in it. Some people see it as an eastern way of men controlling their women and such behavior over here is not the way we live our lives.

Most people aren't out to cause offence but it is difficult theses days to form an opinion without offending. At the end of the day, offence or not opinion is just opinion, which is what makes debate.

[manta]

You must shit yourself when someone on a motorbike rides past you then.

Anyway, what does it matter if it 'hides their identity'? You don't know who they are anyway.

Not at all, they are being safety conscious.

It's just principle, I don't feel the need to cover my face and even if I did I'd be asked to remove whatever it was covering my face if I entered a service station or whatever, which is fair enough it's for security. Cameras cant see through burkas, helmets or balaclavas, so why should they be approached differently?

Can't be bothered to go into detail.

[23carragold]

...........

[Quick]

I've seen some "ladies" who a burka would be good idea!
Leggings giving a does of mooses knuckle would be ideal candidates!!!!!

[23carragold]

.............

[Ross]

This is what I'm trying to tell you. The true essence of it is choice based, that choice being one of modesty. You cannot simply base your opinion on somebody else's twisted concept. Unfortunately stuff like that does happen, but incorrect and wrong things occur in every religion though.

So if as we've established it is reasonable to request a motorcyclist to remove his helmet (clearly for reasons that staff do not feel intimidated and for CCTV purposes) why is it unreasonable to request a burka is removed also, for the same reasons?

The helmet is on primarily because it is a legal requirement when on a motorcycle. The burka, as we've discussed, is on through choice, not religious requirement.

Is that not positive discrimination?

[Carlvtr88]

This is what I'm trying to tell you. The true essence of it is choice based, that choice being one of modesty. You cannot simply base your opinion on somebody else's twisted concept. Unfortunately stuff like that does happen, but incorrect and wrong things occur in every religion though.

I know what your saying. Although I think it probably happens more than you would like to acknowledge.

The question is, does it fit into modern day western society. France obviously disagree as do other people.

On the other hand I Do sympathize with your point of, its mainly a choice and one should let others get on with their lives.

I think it's a debate that could go on for ever and still people will disagree. At the end of the day some feel it doesn't fit in with our society, see it as another way a person can separate themselves from our way of life, refrain from integrating so to speak.

I suppose im kinda trying to speak on behalf of many people in a controlled manner.

[Carlvtr88]

So if as we've established it is reasonable to request a motorcyclist to remove his helmet (clearly for reasons that staff do not feel intimidated and for CCTV purposes) why is it unreasonable to request a burka is removed also, for the same reasons?

The helmet is on primarily because it is a legal requirement when on a motorcycle. The burka, as we've discussed, is on through choice, not religious requirement.

Is that not positive discrimination?

This I believe is a very valid point.

[Viper]

So if as we've established it is reasonable to request a motorcyclist to remove his helmet (clearly for reasons that staff do not feel intimidated and for CCTV purposes) why is it unreasonable to request a burka is removed also, for the same reasons?

The helmet is on primarily because it is a legal requirement when on a motorcycle. The burka, as we've discussed, is on through choice, not religious requirement.

Is that not positive discrimination?

A helmet is only a legal requirement on the road. There is no reason for one to be worn inside.

The burka isn't requested to be removed, I assume out of respect for their culture.

I'm sure if they did something wrong then they would be asked to.

[23carragold]

.................

[Viper]

As for it being a choice, if so, then in each case, fair enough, but I heard from my gf, who is friends with an Asian lady at work, that she was forced marriage with her cousin. Now on top of occasionally hitting her and being very controlling, he wants her to now wear a burqa

I can see how you would judge it from the only thing you have heard about it but you need to make sure you realise that is a minority and you can't judge the majority on it :y:

[Ross]

A helmet is only a legal requirement on the road. There is no reason for one to be worn inside.

The burka isn't requested to be removed, I assume out of respect for their culture.

I'm sure if they did something wrong then they would be asked to.

So what it boils down to is one person should respect someone else's culture, even if alien to that first person.

Like cannibalism for example.

Obviously I'm testing boundaries, but the first example I gave is valid still in my argument.

The motorcyclist is asked to remove the helmet because he "could be" a threat and we want to see his face for CCTV. The burka wearing person we should respect, and allow to remain hidden, even though the same "risk" applies. So it is positive discrimination against a non-religious person then?

[Carlvtr88]

A helmet is only a legal requirement on the road. There is no reason for one to be worn inside.

The burka isn't requested to be removed, I assume out of respect for their culture.

I'm sure if they did something wrong then they would be asked to.

I think what people are agitated by is, its like, if we was in an eastern country we'd be expected to adapt to the way of living we would probably have zero say in what goes and what doesn't. Yet here we sometimes feel our opinion these days is worth less than a foreign persons opinion.

[Viper]

Personally, I don't agree that one should be asked and the other isn't. As you say, it's for the same reason.

What I don't get is the that it seems people think a burka implies there is a danger or that person can't be trusted.

It all boils down to a lack of understanding. People are scared of things they don't understand and unfortunately it is often met with hostility.


I think what people are agitated by is, its like, if we was in an eastern country we'd be expected to adapt to the way of living we would probably have zero say in what goes and what doesn't. Yet here we sometimes feel our opinion these days is worth less than a foreign persons opinion.

I see what you're saying. People don't seem to like the fact that England is incredibly multi cultural and we like too keep all of them happy. Its never going to be easy to please everyone.

[cyne]

Are you referring to my display picture?

That's Sox aka Tom Hannah, I need to change it the joke is pretty dead now.

xx

Love you Viper, best wishes.

Oh, was trying to get you to bite but that has now turned into a disaster.

[Carlvtr88]

I dont think he means the burka should be removed necessarily cause its a threat but more so down to the principal. Same rules should apply. As I Said before, switch it the other way round.

Imagine we can keep a helmet on, but burkas have to be removed. That would be classed as discrimination. Yet, the other way round, there seems to be excuses left right and centre for why it isn't the same principle.

At the end of the day, religious respect aside for one minute..... it boils down to why is a person in a helmet perceived to be more risk of a threat than someone in a burka. If this wasn't the case then neither should be required to remove facial garments. Either that, or they both should.

[Viper]

That's a fair point which I do agree with. I just wanted to put the defence down for a burka.

I really don't know why they feel only one should be removed.

[Jazz]

So what it boils down to is one person should respect someone else's culture, even if alien to that first person.

Like cannibalism for example

There are plenty of things 'alien' to us, and even if we do not fully understand it yes we should still be respectful unless given a legitimate reason to be otherwise.

As for comparing it to cannabilism, well that isn't the best of comparisons is it? One is an illegal offence of eating a fellow person which could invoke murder, the other is a harmless act of modesty and self-respect.

[Viper]

There are plenty of things 'alien' to us, and even if we do not fully understand it yes we should still be respectful unless given a legitimate reason to be otherwise.

As for comparing it to cannabilism, well that isn't the best of comparisons is it? One is an illegal offence of eating a fellow person which could invoke murder, the other is a harmless act of modesty and self-respect.

I reckon I would eat a bit of human if it was served to me...

[Baz]

I reckon I would eat a bit of human if it was served to me...

so long as I knew no different i'd probs eat most meat of any sort, try it at least!

[Ross]

There are plenty of things 'alien' to us, and even if we do not fully understand it yes we should still be respectful unless given a legitimate reason to be otherwise.

As for comparing it to cannabilism, well that isn't the best of comparisons is it? One is an illegal offence of eating a fellow person which could invoke murder, the other is a harmless act of modesty and self-respect.

In this country perhaps. But who said anything about restricting respect to this country only? When visiting a mosque should I remove my shoes out of respect? Of course. What about not wearing bikinis in parts of Egypt? Should westerners respect that also?

So we should respect others views and beliefs. The world over. Some choose as part of their belief that cannabilism is not only acceptable but normal. I respect that too. I don't agree with it, but respect it.

I respect women should be allowed to wear burkas. But what I refuse to agree with is that the person shouldn't have to remove it in situations where it's demanded that non-religious head coverings must be - like a petrol station.

Can you imagine the uproar if a garage manager put up a sign saying "all burkas to be removed before entering shop"? It'd be tabloid front page news. Why? Discriminating against religious choice. But wearing a helmet? No sir, you may not. Might be a threat you see, we need to see your face.

Should the moral of the story therefore be (and I'm intentionally provoking the subject here) that if I plan to knock off my local 7-11 I should dress in a burka, because no one would DARE question it?

Therefore, we can conclude those without burkas in the garage example are positively descriminatated against. There is no other words for it.

[rey]

Surely it is better than walking round semi-naked inviting somebody to rape her? :detective:

So because a woman doesn't walk around with everything but her eyes covered, or wears a short skirt/dress on an evening out, she is asking to be raped?

[Ross]

So because a woman doesn't walk around with everything but her eyes covered, or wears a short skirt/dress on an evening out, she is asking to be raped?

I presume he meant the different cultural belief of others - for example, gypsy girls on a night out. Which you should respect even though some might say they look easy or cheap... ;)

http://www.redsevenleisure.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Josie-hen.jpg

[Viper]

So because a woman doesn't walk around with everything but her eyes covered, or wears a short skirt/dress on an evening out, she is asking to be raped?

Don't be dense. You've completely twisted his words even though you quoted what he said. He specifically said semi naked...

[manta]

Oh, was trying to get you to bite but that has now turned into a disaster.

We all make mistakes.

:hug:

[Carlvtr88]

In this country perhaps. But who said anything about restricting respect to this country only? When visiting a mosque should I remove my shoes out of respect? Of course. What about not wearing bikinis in parts of Egypt? Should westerners respect that also?

So we should respect others views and beliefs. The world over. Some choose as part of their belief that cannabilism is not only acceptable but normal. I respect that too. I don't agree with it, but respect it.

I respect women should be allowed to wear burkas. But what I refuse to agree with is that the person shouldn't have to remove it in situations where it's demanded that non-religious head coverings must be - like a petrol station.

Can you imagine the uproar if a garage manager put up a sign saying "all burkas to be removed before entering shop"? It'd be tabloid front page news. Why? Discriminating against religious choice. But wearing a helmet? No sir, you may not. Might be a threat you see, we need to see your face.

Should the moral of the story therefore be (and I'm intentionally provoking the subject here) that if I plan to knock off my local 7-11 I should dress in a burka, because no one would DARE question it?

Therefore, we can conclude those without burkas in the garage example are positively descriminatated against. There is no other words for it.

where is the rep button. ?.......

[Tommo87]

Personally I think the thread needs a poll.

As for the other thing I think it should be illegal.

[Manu]

should be a £500 fine + 5 points for wearing or using anything that alter your senses while driving. I.e phone, headphones, burka, applying makeup, eating/drinking, etc.

When it comes to the subject of burkas in the street, I don't get why they are legal. I'll wear a helmet and go to the post office or sainsburys and see what happens. Then factoring in the religious side of it, I see it as your very own portable prison.



I presume he meant the different cultural belief of others - for example, gypsy girls on a night out. Which you should respect even though some might say they look easy or cheap... ;)

http://www.redsevenleisure.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Josie-hen.jpg

that was the Compton prostitute look last time I checkedhttp://forums.superherohype.com/images/smilies/barf.gif

[Tommo87]

should be a £500 fine + 5 points for wearing or using anything that alter your senses while driving. I.e phone, headphones, burka, applying makeup, eating/drinking, etc.

When it comes to the subject of burkas in the street, I don't get why they are legal. I'll wear a helmet and go to the post office or sainsburys and see what happens. Then factoring in the religious factor, I see it as your very own portable prison.

If that's the case though shouldn't that rule apply to listening to the stereo, talking to a passenger, having a sat nav on and many more things.

[Manu]

If that's the case though shouldn't that rule apply to listening to the stereo, talking to a passenger, having a sat nav on and many more things.

I don't make laws. That said, sat nav is a driving assistance device that works (except for mongs like the one who drove his BMW over a cliff or hgv drivers who wedge themselves in dirt tracks ), and you still have two hands on the wheel while talking to your passenger as opposed to holding a phone, some idiots text or go on facebook while driving. I had a cunt almost rearending me not too long ago. Texting, making calls, texting again and paying no attention whatsover. These are the dangerous ones.



Stereo? Hmmmm thin line. Nothing wrong with a bit of music, but some chavs think it's perfectly cool to have it blasting, all windows open at 2am, some others clearly are worse than those wearing headphones. I have seen one some day (serious barryboys contender no less), dual carriageway and completely oblivious to the ambulance behind him. I had to signal his girlfriend and point at who's right behind them right on their bumper with all blues and twos.

[AXracing]

The problem with the Burqa is not the Burrqa it self or even that it is warn in a round about way for religious reasons. The problem is that so many are using it to push the boundaries of what they can get away with and use it to fight for so called positive discrimination. As people quite rightly pointed out there is no requirement to wear one. Yet girls are still fighting and winning to wear them in school some refusing to take them off for airport security and those sort of things that clearly upsets all others. Some of the girls that wear them are even complete tarts with huge heals on and so much makup its unreal. How is that modest. Many don't even pray as one would expect for some one so religious. I have nothing against the Burrqa but if it is a genuine safety issue I dont think the government or police should hesitate to require there removal in given situations.

[0rang3peel]

" orangepeel " you sound like the government..... It doesn't happen by me so I dont care, it's not a problem.


Not having a go, just saying.

No it's just that I don't think it's a problem, no more of a problem than in the street.

If they're allowed to wear them at all then in the car isn't a concern. You mention privacy glass but as Viper said that's not even relevant.

You could say it obstructs vision etc and as someone said I suppose that might be proven if an accident occurred. Why does that concern you though unless you were directly involved in an accident with someone wearing a burka I don't really see why anyone would care.

Unless you have a stance where they shouldn't be allowed in the UK fullstop.

[mechsman]

For driving purposes (and associated stuff like getting petrol etc) they should be banned, period. They can severely restrict perhipheral vision and make you much less aware of you surroundings. As I understand it they are also traditionally made of fairly thick material which would also restrict your hearing somewhat I would imagine.

Other stuff such as walking down the street in one is more dodgy ground. It's personal choice at the end of the day as it is NOT a religious requirement to wear that particular type of garment. Personally, and I stress PERSONALLY, I think they should be banned full stop when out in public but that's me.

[xscottxx]

What all of this boils down to is the fact that nobody wants to be seen to discriminate against anyone, let alone muslims. If there's one thing brits hate it's being called racist.

I think we need to stop looking at people as being christian, muslim, white, asian, et cetera, and start making rules that include everyone. If people are not allowed to wear a bike helmet in a shop, people should also not be allowed to wear a burqa in a shop. It is nothing to do with religion whatsoever, it is to do with the safety of the public and the people behind the counter.

What is to stop a man donning a full burqa and then going to rob a petrol station in it?

[Carlvtr88]

What all of this boils down to is the fact that nobody wants to be seen to discriminate against anyone, let alone muslims. If there's one thing brits hate it's being called racist.

I think we need to stop looking at people as being christian, muslim, white, asian, et cetera, and start making rules that include everyone. If people are not allowed to wear a bike helmet in a shop, people should also not be allowed to wear a burqa in a shop. It is nothing to do with religion whatsoever, it is to do with the safety of the public and the people behind the counter.

What is to stop a man donning a full burqa and then going to rob a petrol station in it?

absolute right. Although, I think people are not so much afraid of being called racist, but agitated when people use the term racist to squash anyone else's opinion other than their own. Its almost like these days that one word alone makes people afraid to voice their opinion.

I seriously think the term racist is loosely thrown around these days and half the time in the wrong context. Race, imo, is about discrimination by colour of someones skin or where they come from I dont think, as you pointed out, religion should be a part of it, as holding an opinion of banning a burqa is not down to skin colour, where one Is from or religion it's based on principle of people being treated all the same.

[AXracing]

What all of this boils down to is the fact that nobody wants to be seen to discriminate against anyone, let alone muslims. If there's one thing brits hate it's being called racist.

I think we need to stop looking at people as being christian, muslim, white, asian, et cetera, and start making rules that include everyone. If people are not allowed to wear a bike helmet in a shop, people should also not be allowed to wear a burqa in a shop. It is nothing to do with religion whatsoever, it is to do with the safety of the public and the people behind the counter.

What is to stop a man donning a full burqa and then going to rob a petrol station in it?

well said :y:

[iVTR]

;................................................. .

[chris-hall-yo]

What all of this boils down to is the fact that nobody wants to be seen to discriminate against anyone, let alone muslims. If there's one thing brits hate it's being called racist.

I think we need to stop looking at people as being christian, muslim, white, asian, et cetera, and start making rules that include everyone. If people are not allowed to wear a bike helmet in a shop, people should also not be allowed to wear a burqa in a shop. It is nothing to do with religion whatsoever, it is to do with the safety of the public and the people behind the counter.

What is to stop a man donning a full burqa and then going to rob a petrol station in it?

ye fair ennuf. Like your not allowed to wear a hood in certain retail centers. For chav people

Just out of interest. Has anyone ever seen someone wearing a burka on a motorbike???

[Carlvtr88]

ye fair ennuf. Like your not allowed to wear a hood in certain retail centers. For chav people

Just out of interest. Has anyone ever seen someone wearing a burka on a motorbike???

No but if I did I'd make a new thread.

[chris-hall-yo]

No but if I did I'd make a new thread.

haha that would be jokes

[Mochachino]

"Driving with a Burqa.... Yes or No ? "

I prefer driving without imo.

[Carlvtr88]

haha that would be jokes

driving with a burqa .... yes or no ( motorbike edition )

No /thread.

[Heliosphan]

People are entitled to follow a particular culture or religion but I don't think any woman who chooses to wear the burqa is doing herself any favours. By wearing it, she is essentially portraying a walking rejection of Western society and a physical withdrawal from our culture. I think there are numerous other issues too but burqas, for me, are the kind of sectarian nonsense that belongs elsewhere and merely adds fuel to the fire of various far-right groups, like the EDL or BNP.

If someone goes to live in a foreign country, I think that it is absolutely right that they are allowed to maintain elements of their culture. However, for the sake of harmony, people who come here should also have an appreciation and a respect for what is customary in our society. We're not asking people to assimilate or even do as we do but a degree of integration would be helpful to everyone, burqas are the kind of thing that make this difficult.

Another quick point. Giving people unrestricted right to follow their own religion is one of the things that separates the UK from other countries. This is a good thing, not a negative. We shouldn't compare how certain other countries treat religious minorities because we are a much more advanced and freer society. We should set an example of tolerance on the basis that this is reciprocated. However,we shouldn't adapt our culture to accommodate an incoming one as this is precisely the kind of thing that breeds hostility.

[23carragold]

........

[Dave_P]

Someone with a motorbike, put on a burka under your helmet then head to the petrol station... make sure you get a mate to film it. :D

[beanhead]

But dont give a shizzle about the natives. I do wonder if said peoples countries would allow us to dictate what is and isnt allowed if many of us migrated to their homeland. Thats what pisses people off i think. Yet over here we bend over backwards to make sure we dont offend. France got it bang on IMO, they decided it doesnt fit with their way of life and recognised the downsides of allowing it. Someone put their foot down and said no, yet over here they wont do it, in fear of the racist cries that would inevitably follow.

australian aborigines
new zealand maoris
Native americans

Just some of the countries Britain has dictated their rules too, do you feel the same way about that?

[AXracing]

australian aborigines
new zealand maoris
Native americans

Just some of the countries Britain has dictated their rules too, do you feel the same way about that?

That does actually reinforce what Carlvtr88 had to say. The likes of the Aborigines, Maoris and Native Americans wishes where ignored and may tried to quite rightly fight back. History goes much further back then this of similar things happening. Now the UK of today is a free nations with freedom of religion and freedom of speak. So one would hope that all could get along. This is why discrimination even more so "positive discrimination" should be fought against if we wish the UK to stay a free nation. Or we will end up like the above nations older natives. Sidelined in our own nation. I say ours I'm not actually from the UK originally but do love the place.

[Moke]

Ban....

[Dany4494]

Just got my new Burqa
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Green-saudi-Niqab-veil-burqa-Hijab-jilbab-islamic-dress-/150545388801?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item230d345501#ht_2122wt_1287
Not going to wear that one for driving though thats for best.