anyone gone up against an ep3 type r on track?

[marinemackay2003]

Just wondered really.

[Mr_X]

about the same as a slightly modified vts, same with a 172 cup.

In my experience.

[Ross]

Yes. Saw it once, then in the mirror, then once more, then in the mirror. Repeat until the end of the session... Slow doesn't cover it.

[Jay_]

I race on the streets. For slips.

[blackie_2k5]

been up against a few on the road..

[L33h]

I really like the ep3s id have 1. But unfortunately they're not very fast

[Jazz]

I really like the ep3s id have 1. But unfortunately they're not very fast

Not very fast at all.

But what does that make A3 1.8T's? ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=389BVTOH6lY

[Jamie]

I've raced a few expecting them to be much quicker same with 172's ect after reading all the shiz in threads on huuuuuur but yeah!

I remember Lee told me once I'd need cams in my 180 to keep up with his RB 182, those were the days! hurhurhur. BANTZ

Obviously know since then that the difference between all these hatches is very very minimal even on track.

The Type R's are very capable cars! And can sound nice, although some at the pod sounded beyond ridiC!

[L33h]

Not very fast at all.

But what does that make A3 1.8T's? ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=389BVTOH6lY

That videos bollocks. either that or the S3 driver cant drive lol.

I was on the back bumper of one the other day for ages laughing at him lol.

Anyway I've got the bike to go fast if i want :)

[marinemackay2003]

I was just curious really. I have driven one before but not for any length of time and wasn't overly impressed. Really needed to take it for a longer drive.

[LWS_71]

Very decent cars and good to drive. Handle well on track and go pretty well. I went past two in my FN2 around brands, but I am the next JB.

People who say they are slow are morons who have never driven one.

[Ross]

Very decent cars and good to drive. Handle well on track and go pretty well. I went past two in my FN2 around brands, but I am the next JB.

People who say they are slow are morons who have never driven one.

They're slow. It's relative to what your in. ;)

[marinemackay2003]

Lol in yours then yeah I can imagine

[Jamie]

Lol in yours then yeah I can imagine

You type all that in everytime you need to sign in lol?

Wonder what your passwords like lolol

[Gandi699]

considering you've got a supercharged 172 I shouldnt think a type R would bother one overly on track providing your suspension setup is up to par?

[yeahbuddy]

Not very fast at all.

But what does that make A3 1.8T's? ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=389BVTOH6lY

Being in the right gear at the right time, but seriously that's no proof for anything that video I don't think.

[Ross]

just watched that video. Are they actually "racing"? Looks like they're (both) on the way to tescos... :S

[Mochachino]

They're slow. It's relative to what your in. ;)

Nah they're not slow relative to what you are in. They're just slow full stop lol

[Baz]

just watched that video. Are they actually "racing"? Looks like they're (both) on the way to tescos... :S

Looks like they forgot to actually have it in gear while 'racing'!

[m4tt274]

well i feel shit, everyone one on here thinks they are slow! i was in my vtr with a 4/2/1 and no rear seats and i couldnt keep up. he could brake faster than me and accelerate faster, the only place i was level was in the corners, but i wasnt exactly making time on him. :( they are good cars, and very reliable to spank about! though, round town, because of the 'vtec yo' they feel gutless, as your off the cam. Its just like driving a 1.6focus around.

[Ross]

well i feel shit, everyone one on here thinks they are slow! i was in my vtr with a 4/2/1 and no rear seats and i couldnt keep up. he could brake faster than me and accelerate faster, the only place i was level was in the corners, but i wasnt exactly making time on him. :( they are good cars, and very reliable to spank about! though, round town, because of the 'vtec yo' they feel gutless, as your off the cam. Its just like driving a 1.6focus around.

you were in a vtr. Were you really expecting a different outcome? ;)

[leeroybrown]

Jamie - You still do need them hahaha

[Jamie]

Jamie - You still do need them hahaha

lol. gtfo :P

Do quite like the 182's now btw

I want the Recaro's out of one (broke my pas seat :panic:, can't adjust the way you sit luckily it's stuck in a nice position) also would shed alot of weight those 180 seats weigh a ton!

[jasonmayall]

well i feel shit, everyone one on here thinks they are slow! i was in my vtr with a 4/2/1 and no rear seats and i couldnt keep up. he could brake faster than me and accelerate faster, the only place i was level was in the corners, but i wasnt exactly making time on him. :( they are good cars, and very reliable to spank about! though, round town, because of the 'vtec yo' they feel gutless, as your off the cam. Its just like driving a 1.6focus around.

You were never going to keep up in a VTR, unless you had a few tricks up your sleeve lol. I cant really comment much further as i've never drove one but if its anything like the vvc in the rover (only more powerful) i can see why people buy them! Bet they're a right barrel of laughs, even if you do see one parked on every road.

[Gandi699]

You were never going to keep up in a VTR, unless you had a few tricks up your sleeve lol. I cant really comment much further as i've never drove one but if its anything like the vvc in the rover (only more powerful) i can see why people buy them! Bet they're a right barrel of laughs, even if you do see one parked on every road.

Its a bit of a different kettle of fish to the way the vvc delivers its power though. Technically vvc is more advanced than vtec

[MuZiZZle]

well i feel shit, everyone one on here thinks they are slow! i was in my vtr with a 4/2/1 and no rear seats and i couldnt keep up. he could brake faster than me and accelerate faster, the only place i was level was in the corners, but i wasnt exactly making time on him. :( they are good cars, and very reliable to spank about! though, round town, because of the 'vtec yo' they feel gutless, as your off the cam. Its just like driving a 1.6focus around.

Stage 3 weight reduction FTMFW!

if only you'd taken the cigarette lighter out!

[Brettles1986]

Stage 3 weight reduction FTMFW!

if only you'd taken the cigarette lighter out!

12V socket being the official term for it, your let off though

[MuZiZZle]

12V socket being the official term for it, your let off though

"12V socket" is the term used for the cigarette lighter that fits inside the 12V socket?

confusing

[Ross]

"12V socket" is the term used for the cigarette lighter that fits inside the 12V socket?

confusing

you beat me to it you mong. Was gonna hose him for that, was just looking for a good enough image :(

[MuZiZZle]

you beat me to it you mong. Was gonna hose him for that, was just looking for a good enough image :(

http://performancepeugeot.com/shop/images/Peugeot%20206%20Cigarette%20Lighter.jpg

on the right we see a 12V socket, on the left we see a 12V socket ? :homme:

[Brettles1986]

"12V socket" is the term used for the cigarette lighter that fits inside the 12V socket?

confusing

oh fuck off :hug:

so you were implying the removal of just the lighter itself, I see now

[Ross]

oh fuck off :hug:

hahaha. :D Stuck for words Brettie? ;)

http://www.luingcattlesociety.co.uk/uploads/images/mainimages/stuck-for-words-la.jpg

Yes. He doesn't smoke, and retaining the 12v accessory socket might help if his phone battery gets low whilst texting, y0.

[jasonmayall]

Its a bit of a different kettle of fish to the way the vvc delivers its power though. Technically vvc is more advanced than vtec

I thought they were very similar, the way in which they work... vvc and vtec is just mind-blowingly confusing anyway. :homme:

[MuZiZZle]

it made me think of this kind of thing

http://blog.datentrampelpfad.de/uploads/42tage/picture_in_picture_gr.jpg

[Brettles1986]

hahaha. :D Stuck for words Brettie? ;)

Yes. He doesn't smoke, and retaining the 12v accessory socket might help if his phone battery gets low whilst texting, y0.


I was TRYING to be clever and failed.

[Gandi699]

I thought they were very similar, the way in which they work... vvc and vtec is just mind-blowingly confusing anyway. :homme:

vvc is far more confusing, vtec is quite a simple idea when you break it down.

[Prickle]

Not very fast at all.

But what does that make A3 1.8T's? ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=389BVTOH6lY

ep3 looks painfully slow overtaking..

:/

[mangojace]

the rallye on bodies used to rape type r's.

And my old mates type r with no back seats used to think he beat the jamsport tuned rs's and my sisters st.

VTEC- Over rated

[Ryan]

Yes... They're usually the mobile chicane out on track as they cannot deal with the fact their Honda isn't that fast......

[Ross]

lol @ ryan :D

[VTR-Chris]

just sold my supercharged type R!

strap a supercharger to them an there a different kettle of fish ;)

[blackie_2k5]

Every s3 I've ever raced has done a lot better then any type r

[baker556]

just sold my supercharged type R!

strap a supercharger to them an there a different kettle of fish ;)

Lol'ed

Strap a supercharger to a 1.1 and its a different kettle of fish.

[baker556]

Every s3 I've ever raced has done a lot better then any type r

New S3 over old S3?

[Aly]

In my Cammed 16v VTS that was stripped with two buckets and a roll cage I beat a Supercharged EP3 round croft, it was pissing it down with rain and I had a lot more grip than him, I think if it was dry it would have been a lot more different though.

[Jazz]

If you thrash them they're quick for what they are.

As usual loads commenting when they haven't driven one 'properly'.

I had a little play with my mate's 04 EP3 Type R, I was in my 350bhp Audi S2 at the time. I had a passenger, he didn't. He is a very experienced druver and knows his car onside out. From a 40 roll he got a little jump and held it all the way up to just over 100ish, at which point I started to creep past slowly. By 130 I had a decent enough lead and was pulling away cleanly. But I was very surprised, the K20 isn't a joke at all. I can only assume he had a very healthy one but still very impressive. My car had a Rs2 Turbo at 1.3 bar and still struggled until 3 figs.

[Ashleyp]

These threads always consist of just a few types of replies:

"my modified saxo rapes standard ep3's all day"
"my mates car beat some random dude"

most people don't take into account the major variable in any race either - the driver and their ability to drive a particular car quickly.

standard Vs standard = EP3 > VTS

They're not a 'quick' car, but that wasn't the OP's question...

Edit; no, i've never been up against one.

[Jazz]

They're slow. It's relative to what your in. ;)

Can your car do 185+mph, GPS verified? If not then its slow compared to my old Twin-13T Turbo'd GTO, 1.5bar 540bhp.

Relative indeed ;)

[Ross]

Can your car do 185+mph, GPS verified? If not then its slow compared to my old Twin-13T Turbo'd GTO, 1.5bar 540bhp.

Relative indeed ;)

Nope it cant (gearing wont let it over 160 at the moment). But I'll save a slot in my mirror for your GTO when I'm on the GSXR ;)

[Giraffe]

how did this thread go from "has anyone gone up against an ep3 type r on track?" to "my dick's bigger than your dick" when in some cases, said people don't even have their "dicks" anymore?!

[Ryan]

how did this thread go from "has anyone gone up against an ep3 type r on track?" to "my dick's bigger than your dick" when in some cases, said people don't even have their "dicks" anymore?!

Because some people think people give a toss about what they've driven/owned or taken a test drive of and written a review of :zainy:

It's a car forum and so cock waving generally always happens around fanboys.

[Ashleyp]

Because it's saxp, Dave.

[Prickle]

These threads always consist of just a few types of replies:

"my modified saxo rapes standard ep3's all day"
"my mates car beat some random dude"

most people don't take into account the major variable in any race either - the driver and their ability to drive a particular car quickly.

standard Vs standard = VTS > EP3

They're not a 'quick' car, but that wasn't the OP's question...

Edit; no, i've never been up against one.

Agreed ashley. find my edit ;-)

[CrouchyM]

Ive just gone from a 16v'd vtr to an ep3.

First impression the power is much better, torque wish its so much better then a J4.
As for how quick, i dont think there would be that much difference, only because in the EP you rip through the gears because of the close ratio's. As from 100mph+ i reckon the EP would kill a vts. It pulls so strong.

But if you havent driven one i wouldnt comment, to drive its by far the best car ive driven, you have the K20 engine which is so strong, standard they handle amazing, the steering is so direct and light. You feel so confident when driving one where as in the saxo i didnt feel happy about the steering and handling, also with the EP i dont feel bad for ringing the shit out of it where as in the saxo i was scared it would blow up.

[Giraffe]

Because it's saxp, Dave.

This is very true!

Let the dick measuring continue.

[Jazz]

Not willy waving, just emphasising Ross's point about speed being relative.

No point saying a Type R is slow because you have a 400bhp crisp packet.

When you have a faster unmodified 2.0 N/A car then come back and say it's slow.

Put up or shut up ;)

[Ashleyp]

Agreed ashley. find my edit ;-)

Took me a while, but I found that subtle edit ;)

well played, sir.

[Ross]

Not willy waving, just emphasising Ross's point about speed being relative.

No point saying a Type R is slow because you have a 400bhp crisp packet.

When you have a faster in modified 2.0 N/A car then come back and say it's slow.

Put up or shut up ;)

wasn't aware an S3 was NA? (Which I believe was the original video comparison).

PS - Megane R26.R would be faster ;)

[KamRacing]

VTEC- Over rated

I think you are looking at VTEC as a performance enhancement. If thats the case then it will disappoint. It was developed to allow a highly strung normally aspirated engine to give good fuel economy and a comfortable drive at low rpm.
We can all slap on race cams to our cars and make just as much power but the EP3 will be able to pull away from the lights at 1500 rpm..

:p:p

[Jazz]

Didn't know the R26R was a naturally aspirated 2.0 LOL. :P

[baker556]

Ive just gone from a 16v'd vtr to an ep3.

First impression the power is much better, torque wish its so much better then a J4.
As for how quick, i dont think there would be that much difference, only because in the EP you rip through the gears because of the close ratio's. As from 100mph+ i reckon the EP would kill a vts. It pulls so strong.

But if you havent driven one i wouldnt comment, to drive its by far the best car ive driven, you have the K20 engine which is so strong, standard they handle amazing, the steering is so direct and light. You feel so confident when driving one where as in the saxo i didnt feel happy about the steering and handling, also with the EP i dont feel bad for ringing the shit out of it where as in the saxo i was scared it would blow up.

Really? i always had the assumption that the vts handled better than one of these :detective:

[Prickle]

Took me a while, but I found that subtle edit ;)

well played, sir.

:A: cheers

[Jazz]

Really? i always had the assumption that the vts handled better than one of these :detective:

No it really doesn't.

A VTS torque steers like a bitch off the line and that backend goes light on fast corners, neither of which happens in a Type R.

[MickyWelsh172]

New S3 over old S3?

My Girlfriends got the S3, im hoping she lets me get the iPhone 5 in her name when its released...

:P

[Ryan]

No it really doesn't.

A VTS torque steers like a bitch off the line and that backed goes light on fast corners, neither of which happens in a Type R.

Back end only goes light if you are not on throttle.

Having the strut set up in the rear certainly makes things better to set up come modification time.

[Ross]

Didn't know the R26R was a naturally aspirated 2.0 LOL. :P

Didn't say it was? We were all fine and dandy using the S3 as an example, so I posted something similar to an S3... Beef?

[Jazz]

Back end only goes light if you are not on throttle.

Having the strut set up in the rear certainly makes things better to set up come modification time.

On throttle as well sunshine, a fact I nearly totalled the car finding out.

As standard that arse sits too high in the VTS, crappy high speed stability.

[Jazz]

Lunch break finished, continue later lads

[Ross]

Lunch break finished, continue later lads

http://www.marriedtothesea.com/062610/first-place-at-internet.gif

[Nik_L]

They aren't as fast as some cars, but they aren't as slow as some cars also. They certainly ain't the benchmark for performance cars like what a lot of folk make out. They are at best quick, and a good all round package. I certainly wouldn't knock 1 back.

I can still remember when i had my old Gti-R. Some pretty boy and his bottle blonde GF pulled up at a set of lights in his EP3. Both staring over, him giving it wee blips of the throttle to get me to go for it. So i hooked it up off the line, wasn't even out of 2nd gear and he was merely a dot in the rear view mirror. He flagged me over and was shocked at how quick the Pulsar took off, said he hadn't ever seen 1, nor knew what it was and fancied his chances. But even after that, i still wouldn't have said EP3's were slow cars, just not as quick as a 300+bhp Pulsar.

Vtec is over-rated, in the sense that it gets thrown about far too much as a mega performance aid. You could say in a way, it is, but its not what its made out to be.

[rey]

Really? i always had the assumption that the vts handled better than one of these :detective:

I'll take you out in mine. You'll soon see.

[Jazz]

http://www.marriedtothesea.com/062610/first-place-at-internet.gif

Not finished with you just yet ;)

[deano_123]

heavy car, considering its size, combine this with a lack of torque and it aint going to set any worlds on fire, breaks were poor as well. it does have a decent chassis though and the driving position i thought was just right, seats were shite though, no support

i had 249 bhp out of it N/A then supercharged it and totally ruined the car, wheelspan all day

[Gandi699]

An Ep3 still has got 145lb/ft of torque though

[Giraffe]

How much as a 172 got?

[Carl-h]

I like them. Seen a few giving it some and they go well. Asking if they are 'fast' is silly as its all relative. I think my VTR was nippy for what it was, but a few people at work who had had them (not just young kids either, one woman in her 40's) were going on like it's a rocket. I soon realised it wasn't, I've bought an MX5 and although it's on par with a VTS that still doesn't really feel fast but it handles amazingly.

Even my bloody bike doesn't feel that fast and it's roughly 3 seconds to 60! It's all depending on what your used to. I drove a big 5.something litre v8 supercharged merc (s500 AMG possibly? Don't like mercs much so don't know about them) with apparently 500bhp and 5 ish to 60. It was so quiet and smooth it didn't feel fast at all!

Edit: the amount of torque isn't hugely relevant until you know what revs it makes it at tbh. That Mazda has power everywhere but to get the best I have to really rev it which makes it feel slower as you don't get thrown into the seat like a turbo car. There are so many variables it's too difficult to define fast. End of the day if your happy with your car that's all that matters.

[Baz]

How much as a 172 got?

147...

[Gandi699]

147...

exactly. The K20a has plenty of torque

[Giraffe]

147...

Cheers, drove one of them the other day so wanted to see how gutless or not gutless an EP3 might feel, and to be fair, it was more than adequate in the 172 so I guess maybe they aren't all that gutless after all!

[baker556]

No it really doesn't.

A VTS torque steers like a bitch off the line and that backend goes light on fast corners, neither of which happens in a Type R.

I'll take you out in mine. You'll soon see.

I was only going on what i have heard about them. Most people on here understandably would say the saxo handles better im not stating it does just never heard of a ep3 being better..

Just to add this into the mix

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2ekryy-PS4

Figures

2.0i VTEC 3d
6.4 secs
146 mph
197 bhp

1.6i 16V VTS 3d (99)
7.6 secs
127 mph
120 bhp

128 bhp/ton
163 bhp/ton

In reality the ep3 is quicker the saxo would sit on its bumper end/

[DeanAngell1234]

Ep3's are quick for what they are...... And with a shitty induction kit they sound awesome :P Tbh, I like Rover VVC engines more, don't know why, just do lol

[blackie_2k5]

New S3 over old S3?

Either mate,

I did write a more detailed post but it wouldn't send due to having not sinal :/

Then apparently "the token had expired"

Couldn't Be arsed to rewrite it :homme:

[rey]

Just to add this into the mix

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2ekryy-PS4


The only time the Saxo starts gaining on that is when the Civic stops accelerating.

Also, as wet as that the EP3 would be spinning up the wheels.

[baker556]

The only time the Saxo starts gaining on that is when the Civic stops accelerating.

Also, as wet as that the EP3 would be spinning up the wheels.

Im not suggesting the saxo is quicker, however i am suggesting it goes well for a vtr 90bhp over the civics 197bhp.

Surely the ep3 wouldn't be spinning the wheels good tyres, traction control not much torque to worry about etc.

[Mr_X]

As per my first post the biggest difference on track is the driver, the ctr is marginally better though.

[DUFC]

Yes, i furio'd that mutha fucka into the ground y0

[rey]

Im not suggesting the saxo is quicker, however i am suggesting it goes well for a vtr 90bhp over the civics 197bhp.

Surely the ep3 wouldn't be spinning the wheels good tyres, traction control not much torque to worry about etc.

No traction control.

They spin up for fun in the wet if your not gentle with the throttle.

[marinemackay2003]

So a mixed bag of reviews then. I've allways fancied one, need to drive one for a length of time really

[Ross]

So a mixed bag of reviews then. I've allways fancied one, need to drive one for a length of time really

lol - probably wishing you'd not bothered asking about now huh. ;)

[blackie_2k5]

lets be honest...


theyre quicker
more reliable
more grown up
more comfortable
and more modern then a saxo..

and im saying that with a dislike for them lol

[marinemackay2003]

lol - probably wishing you'd not bothered asking about now huh. ;)


Ha ha sort of. See it wouldn't take much to do stuff to mine but I've still got the civic itch.

[Prickle]

lets be honest...


theyre quicker
more reliable
more grown up
more comfortable
and more modern then a saxo..

and im saying that with a dislike for them lol

debatable

and we all know it

[Ross]

Ha ha sort of. See it wouldn't take much to do stuff to mine but I've still got the civic itch.

Does that mean you'll join the cool crowd and start hatin' on all other cars that aren't JDM TO FUK? ;)

[MuZiZZle]

I've seen the Japanese Domestic Market IRL, it was mainly small vans, micras and BM/Mercs

I'm the JDM one around here!

[deano_123]

exactly. The K20a has plenty of torque

at 8500 rpm yes it does, but its still pulling a fair bit of weight

its a rev happy car, i liked mine

[blackie_2k5]

I've seen the Japanese Domestic Market IRL, it was mainly small vans, micras and BM/Mercs

I'm the JDM one around here!

IRL as in ireland?

if you read this you're gay... trollololol

[CrouchyM]

lets be honest...


theyre quicker
more reliable
more grown up
more comfortable
and more modern then a saxo..

and im saying that with a dislike for them lol



Sooo true! Also safer i reckon

[Jazz]

debatable

and we all know it

If you're going to say a saxo is as reliable as a Civic then I think you're the only one who thinks so, even on a french forum Jonny-boy.


... Beef?

Beef?

Sirloin f*cking Steak actually :homme:

Forget that S3 vid I posted, I asked if you could find a 2.0 N/A engine'd hot hatch that is quicker. I guess you haven't then.

Yes the Type R's aren't always as quick as similar-size engined Turbo cars, which funnily enough have Turbos... which the Type R's don't have. Not everything is about straight line punch, so much more to a car than that.

But lets talk a little about these so-called shit VTEC engines shall we. I love when people jump on the "VTEC is shit" bandwagon when they know sweet f*ck all about them, and this isn't aimed at you Ross it's to everyone.

In the 80s Honda managed to give their Intrgra 1.8 XSi 1.8 an output of 160PS- when the equivalent euro 1.8 hatches were struggling to get near 100bhp.

The EK9 1.6 came out in the mid 90s and could hit 60 in well under 7 seconds an still has a power/litre ratio which destroys most modern hot hatches.

The F20C in a S2000 pushes out 123bhp per litre (more than any other comparable 4-pot n/a 2.0) and can handle 500bhp+ on a stock block with no internal modifications, just a fast snail bolted on.

When SportAuto magazine tested the hot hatches on the ring the EP3 did 8.47, and the same magazine also clocked the Focus ST, Cooper S, Corsa VXR, Focus RS and MK5 GTI DSG as all having slower lap times.

Arial use the K20a in their bonkers Atom.

Many Lotus boys ditch the Toyota 2ZZ and install a charged K20a instead.

But who cares about any of that. VTECs are slow, unrelaible and shit end of the day.

http://swagct.com/uploads/2012/07/1_1341827390.jpg

http://rsxisfaster.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/buttvtec.jpg

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/19882720.jpg

:homme: :homme:

[Prickle]

If you're going to say a saxo is as reliable as a Civic then I think you're the only one who thinks so, even on a french forum Jonny-boy.

Im going to say they are reliable through my experience of the 2 ive owned/got.

You can buy sheddy EP3 and Saxos. cant deny that fact, ja.

can_of_worms.jpg

[Jazz]

Im going to say they are reliable through my experience of the 2 ive owned/got.

You can buy sheddy EP3 and Saxos. cant deny that fact, ja.

can_of_worms.jpg

Mine was reliable too bud.

But looking at the bigger picture, generally look at how Saxos relaibility "on the whole" and Civics reliability "on the whole" performance in Satisfaction surveys and also online owners reviews and the results speak for themselves.

I honestly think you're the only one on here who reckons that overall saxos are as reliable as Honda Civics lol :P

[Prickle]

Mine was reliable too bud.

But looking at the bigger picture, generally look at how Saxos relaibility "on the whole" and Civics reliability "on the whole" performance in Satisfaction surveys and also online owners reviews and the results speak for themselves.

I honestly think you're the only one on here who reckons that overall saxos are as reliable as Honda Civics lol :P

:drink: ;) i couldnt care less jazzy i wanted some big debate lolol

[Ross]

Beef?

Sirloin f*cking Steak actually :homme:

I read none of that. My troll filter was enabled sorry. Just posted to say thanks - but no one cares. Hope it didn't take too long to rant. Riceburner.com is --> over there :)

[Jazz]

I read none of that. My troll filter was enabled sorry. Just posted to say thanks - but no one cares. Hope it didn't take too long to rant. Riceburner.com is --> over there :)

You disappoint me Ross, I was hoping for more bite from a new mod.

At least Ryan puts up little bit of fight before he throws in the towel. :n:

[blackie_2k5]

http://www.r8pl8z.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/cop-bait-funny-license-plate.jpg

[Jazz]

^ Haha...

http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2012/04/17/fuck-the-police-two-wheels-1301008454i.jpg

[Ross]

You disappoint me Ross, I was hoping for more bite from a new mod.

At least Ryan puts up little bit of fight before he throws in the towel. :n:

I may be a new mod but I've driven vtec hondas a long time. I don't bite at stuff like this really - I've never driven a quick honda. Come back when it's turbo'd or something. You can keep your "powerband" (y0) and serious lack of torque if that's your thing. Not for me.

If you want people to suck you off for having a riceburner, a saxo forum probably isn't the best place. But you keep trying sweetie, go right ahead. I know how you love to rant :)

[greyjasper51]

Ive never driven one but been a passenger a few times and im really not inpressed with the v tec (yo) the powerband of the vtec seems too small for track use and out of it they are shocking!! If they made the vtec band larger or more competitive off cams then it would be a serious weapon to deal with but through the twisty stuff its all up and down the box to keep it in power, not fast until a straight line imo... They just needed more playing with seems like they were too rushed to get the engine done and kinda forgot about normal driveability...

[Jazz]

I may be a new mod but I've driven vtec hondas a long time. I don't bite at stuff like this really - I've never driven a quick honda. Come back when it's turbo'd or something. You can keep your "powerband" (y0) and serious lack of torque if that's your thing. Not for me.

If you want people to suck you off for having a riceburner, a saxo forum probably isn't the best place. But you keep trying sweetie, go right ahead. I know how you love to rant :)

But that's the point. I'm here to keep you Garlic-sniffers in touch with reality ;) And I was originally VTS driver anyhow, plenty of fun I had with it too. I stick around because I can get some decent car banter on here, on the other forums the owners are often a bit old and lacklustre for my taste.

I've had plenty of boosted cars and this is actually really quite slow compared to most of them but I like working for my power- redlining the fucker with heavy handed gearshifts is my relaxation after a long day in the office, which is why the "Rice Burner" suits me.

And I'm not ranting, I'm debating and reasoning. Don't mistake it. ;)

[blackie_2k5]

these threads are that keep saxp alive

its all about the banter..and how you lay it out...these are the threads that invoke the lurkers to post

and gets the crack going ;)

[Prickle]

^ Haha...

http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2012/04/17/fuck-the-police-two-wheels-1301008454i.jpg

:zainy:

cracking pic. nutters

[Jazz]

these threads are that keep saxp alive

its all about the banter..and how you lay it out...these are the threads that invoke the lurkers to post

and gets the crack going ;)

Nail on the head Blackie.

Thats what its all about, we need SOMETHING to keep this bloody place alive. Its why I never left sax-p.

Banter is my middle name :hug:

[blackie_2k5]

i was quite enjoying this one as well lol

[Jazz]

i was quite enjoying this one as well lol

So was I... Until the the super-cool new mod decided he had enough of the Ricer Burner and ran away :P

[Ross]

i know jazz, i loves yoo really :hug:

[Ross]

So was I... Until the the super-cool new mod decided he had enough of the Ricer Burner and ran away :P
having my fuckin dinner, give a guy a break!

[Jazz]

i know jazz, i loves yoo really :hug:

http://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/2008/4/17/mwah1128529189114687500.jpg

edit- Ross- it's all just banter bud ;) :y:

[vtectransplant]

I've resisted until now.

Standard Saxos are "slow"
Standard EP3's are "slow"

Both are fun.

Mix the two and they are Big Fun.

[harry289]

So thread has been turning into comparing a Saxo VTS which you can buy a good, clean, tidy example for £1400-£2000, and a Civic EP3 for the equivalent condition having to pay more £4000.

So to boot a car and use most/all of its handling/engine performance legally would be on a track day. So best car for the money is obviously a Saxo VTS. I don't think there are any long enough straights on UK circuits for a Civic Type R to pull away significantly from a Saxo?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On thread topic I like a good Civic Type R. They can sound amazing, I like the gear knob position, seats as standard look cool and they have an okay chassis set up.

[blackie_2k5]

http://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/2008/4/17/mwah1128529189114687500.jpg

which one is the ginger one?

[Jazz]

which one is the ginger one?

Hmmmm.... was just trying to work that one out :panic:

[Ross]

which one is the ginger one?

isnt it obvious? ginger one is the vtec y0 - social outcast.

[blackie_2k5]

isnt it obvious? ginger one is the vtec y0 - social outcast.

ohhh i see..its like that :homme:


*awaits the ginger community attacking ross....
i set that up well dont you think ross?...wondered who would fall into it lol

[Jazz]

ohhh i see..its like that :homme:


*awaits the ginger community attacking ross....
i set that up well dont you think ross?...wondered who would fall into it lol

I can see Ryan putting on his knuckle-dusters as we speak...

[blackie_2k5]

I can see Ryan putting on his knuckle-dusters as we speak...

i hear a dog whistle type sound every time he lifts the cover and arms the ban button ...

im told he even has a button he can press in winter that keeps it warm..so when he pushes it his finger doesnt get cold....

nothing to see here

[Ross]

It's like that for sure. Ryan's a cunt now by the very fact he was bullied so much as a child. You almost feel sorry for him tbh.

Anyway, back "on topic"

http://rsxisfaster.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/rocketjetskivtec.jpg

[Ross]

Waiting for vtec to kick in, y0!

http://www.banpei.net/files/cheap-honda-civic-4th-gen-1.jpg

[blackie_2k5]

Waiting for vtec to kick in, y0!

http://www.banpei.net/files/cheap-honda-civic-4th-gen-1.jpg

is that mould? cobwebs? real!?

[Ross]

is that mould? cobwebs? real!?
Real ;)
http://www.banpei.net/2009/05/26/for-sale-really-cheap-honda-civic-4th-gen-13-luxe

[vtectransplant]

Lol take a while for vtec to kick in, on a 1.3 d series!

[blackie_2k5]

no other word..thats amazing

looks fake..

cant believe stuff like that is still possible in this day and age..

[Mr_X]

they are both fail wheel drive


/gibbo

[Mochachino]

combine this with a lack of torque

I got this far in the thread and felt the need to post before reading out the thread.

So many people belive Vtec has a lack of torque, full stop. They have around the same amount of torque as any other 2.0 NA car of the same catagory, they just produce the torque further up the rev range.

[blackie_2k5]

they are both fail wheel drive


for gibbo
x

n'awwwwww he'll love that :homme:


yellow is for FAG'S MATT

[Prickle]

they are both fail wheel drive


/gibbo

#hench

[Mochachino]

#hench


#dench*

[blackie_2k5]

#dench*

Hai Danny

[Mochachino]

Hai Danny

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y_fFFynFgU&noredirect=1

[Giraffe]

back on topic, Jazz, why do you keep raving on about the fact Honda manage to get so much BHP out of an N/A engine? Fantastic achievement yes, but compared to a turbo'd engine, I think I'd rather have the torque... As for "working harder to achieve your power" after a "long day in the office" (you said you work a 35 hour week?) what the actual fuck? Biggest load of bollocks I've ever heard in terms of justifying getting cars that you have to ring the guts out of just to make them move...

Fuck 0-60, it's why I love the devil fuel so much, I like just being able to gently caress the pedal and still having something there to propel me, rather than dropping 2 gears and having to smash the pedal to the floor...

[blackie_2k5]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y_fFFynFgU&noredirect=1

thats genuinely one of the best thought out replies ive seen on here :drink:

[Mochachino]

back on topic, Jazz, why do you keep raving on about the fact Honda manage to get so much BHP out of an N/A engine?

I think the reason he is bringing this point up, is how much bhp do are you left with if you take the turbo away from those turbo'd engines. Honda decided to keep the NA route and did well at it!

[blackie_2k5]

back on topic, Jazz, why do you keep raving on about the fact Honda manage to get so much BHP out of an N/A engine? Fantastic achievement yes, but compared to a turbo'd engine, I think I'd rather have the torque... As for "working harder to achieve your power" after a "long day in the office" (you said you work a 35 hour week?) what the actual fuck? Biggest load of bollocks I've ever heard in terms of justifying getting cars that you have to ring the guts out of just to make them move...

Fuck 0-60, it's why I love the devil fuel so much, I like just being able to gently caress the pedal and still having something there to propel me, rather than dropping 2 gears and having to smash the pedal to the floor...

ohhhh no he di'un!!


bold text..
thats why i love the saxo..it has just enough lag to tease me..then BOOM..steering light and smiles all round :)

[mangojace]

I think the reason he is bringing this point up, is how much bhp do are you left with if you take the turbo away from those turbo'd engines. Honda decided to keep the NA route and did well at it!

Nissan had that power in there 1.6 15years ago in there pulsar. Nothing special LOLZZZ:homme:

[Karlb1]

I know its not a hatchback, but 15 year old MR2 Beams engines had the same bhp without a boosted system and a fair amount of torque behind it.

[blackie_2k5]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/15/avaqyve7.jpg

Pulsar you say ;)

Cleanest example I've seen yet.. First early one I've seen in person

Shame I had to go to the dam to see it..

[Mr_X]

I would like a supercharged type r engine.

[Mochachino]

Nissan had that power in there 1.6 15years ago in there pulsar. Nothing special LOLZZZ:homme:

What power? I didnt state any in paritcular! I dont know if you mean 150bhp or 250 bhp or what lol

[Prickle]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/15/avaqyve7.jpg

Pulsar you say ;)

Cleanest example I've seen yet.. First early one I've seen in person

Shame I had to go to the dam to see it..

Sunny?

[blackie_2k5]

I would like a supercharged type r engine.

in my saxo...


..or are we not playing finish the sentence? :zainy:

[Giraffe]

I think the reason he is bringing this point up, is how much bhp do are you left with if you take the turbo away from those turbo'd engines. Honda decided to keep the NA route and did well at it!

I get it, it's impressive, but the point is, that those engines have do turbo's, I feel like Honda have got the power out of a 2.0 just for the sake of it, I don't see the practical reason... Turbos not only bring the power up to a reasonable figure, but it brings the torque up to a manageable figure as well... Toyota got 190bhp out of a 1.8 n/a engine haven't they? That's pretty close, but who cares, still have to rev the tits off it and drive it like you stole it to get the best out of it, turbo's just make it more sensible and easier to drive, and more pleasurable IMO...

[Mr_X]

in my saxo...


..or are we not playing finish the sentence? :zainy:

yeah in my car :panic:

[Mochachino]

I get it, it's impressive, but the point is, that those engines have do turbo's, I feel like Honda have got the power out of a 2.0 just for the sake of it, I don't see the practical reason... Turbos not only bring the power up to a reasonable figure, but it brings the torque up to a manageable figure as well... Toyota got 190bhp out of a 1.8 n/a engine haven't they? That's pretty close, but who cares, still have to rev the tits off it and drive it like you stole it to get the best out of it, turbo's just make it more sensible and easier to drive, and more pleasurable IMO...

No idea, not sure which Vtec engine we are all talking about here as ive seen a fair few mentioned in this thread now.

Think the idea of a vtec engine is so you have the economy for around town and normal driving below vtec, then when you are wanting to go for a hard drive you drive in vtec where the power is. 2 engines in one lol

[Ross]

I get it, it's impressive, but the point is, that those engines have do turbo's, I feel like Honda have got the power out of a 2.0 just for the sake of it, I don't see the practical reason... Turbos not only bring the power up to a reasonable figure, but it brings the torque up to a manageable figure as well... Toyota got 190bhp out of a 1.8 n/a engine haven't they? That's pretty close, but who cares, still have to rev the tits off it and drive it like you stole it to get the best out of it, turbo's just make it more sensible and easier to drive, and more pleasurable IMO...

Turbos are the way forward. Simple as that I'm afraid. Ecoboost. Emissions, power, fuel efficiency, it's all there.

[blackie_2k5]

Sunny?

sunny/pulsar ;)

didnt see that one john boy

[mangojace]

What power? I didnt state any in paritcular! I dont know if you mean 150bhp or 250 bhp or what lol

1.6 na 197 bhp. 1997 . So why do people think its so amazing they squeezed that power out of a 2litre k20 15 years later?

[Jazz]

back on topic, Jazz, why do you keep raving on about the fact Honda manage to get so much BHP out of an N/A engine? Fantastic achievement yes, but compared to a turbo'd engine, I think I'd rather have the torque... As for "working harder to achieve your power" after a "long day in the office" (you said you work a 35 hour week?) what the actual fuck? Biggest load of bollocks I've ever heard in terms of justifying getting cars that you have to ring the guts out of just to make them move...

Fuck 0-60, it's why I love the devil fuel so much, I like just being able to gently caress the pedal and still having something there to propel me, rather than dropping 2 gears and having to smash the pedal to the floor...

Different engines for different driving styles. Turbos are great for power but N/A engines are good for pure instant throttle response and a screaming engine note, better for when you just want to completely nail it. Just a different sort of driver appeal.

Sometimes it's not about how quickly you cover ground. Sometimes it's the way in which you do it.

[Prickle]

sunny/pulsar ;)

didnt see that one john boy

ay up big lad. :A:

[blackie_2k5]

ay up big lad. :A:

i would have paid big money to take that car home :(

[blackie_2k5]

Different engines for different driving styles. Turbos are great for power but N/A engines are good for pure instant throttle response and a screaming engine note, better for when you just want to completely nail it. Just a different sort of driver appeal.

Sometimes it's not about how quickly you cover ground. Sometimes it's the way in which you do it.

in the old days yes..these days you can spec a turbo to kick in with more power and torque then any N/A could ever bring

thats why turbos are the future..and in a few years 1.4/1.6 will be the highest cc you can buy

and n/a will be a thing of the past

lower emissions..fuel consumption..and better power

[Mochachino]

1.6 na 197 bhp. 1997 . So why do people think its so amazing they squeezed that power out of a 2litre k20 15 years later?

Im not sure mate, I think you need to ask the question to people that are indeed amazed about it, not sure who that is mind.

[Jazz]

in the old days yes..these days you can spec a turbo to kick in with more power and torque then any N/A could ever bring

thats why turbos are the future..and in a few years 1.4/1.6 will be the highest cc you can buy

and n/a will be a thing of the past

lower emissions..fuel consumption..and better power

I do agree mate tbh.

Turbocharging is the future for the reasons you've mentioned.

I find that the throttle response is still not the same- always a bit of a pause before that turbo comes on song, not so with a N/A- its instant and sharp.

I'll certainly go boosted again soon but for now I'm not too fussed with speed. I test drove some other modern turbo'd hot hatches and the feel and involvement was missing :n: At least the Type R retains a little bit of that old-school feeling, which is why I like driving it.

[blackie_2k5]

I do agree mate tbh.

Turbocharging is the future for the reasons you've mentioned.

I find that the throttle response is still not the same- always a bit of a pause before that turbo comes on song, not so with a N/A- its instant and sharp.

I'll certainly go boosted again soon but for now I'm not too fussed with speed. I test drove some other modern turbo'd hot hatches and the feel and involvement was missing :n: At least the Type R retains a little bit of that old-school feeling, which is why I like driving it.


ive always hated the model youve bought if im honest..but i seen one with a kit on in black a few weeks back..and i liked it lol

it had a spoiler..A SPOILER OF ALL THINGS! but it suited it well tbf..

and i do have a secret love of them in white..

[Ross]

I do agree mate tbh.

Turbocharging is the future for the reasons you've mentioned.

I find that the throttle response is still not the same- always a bit of a pause before that turbo comes on song, not so with a N/A- its instant and sharp.

I'll certainly go boosted again soon but for now I'm not too fussed with speed. I test drove some other modern turbo'd hot hatches and the feel and involvement was missing :n: At least the Type R retains a little bit of that old-school feeling, which is why I like driving it.

I think you've got that a bit backwards tbh

Let me give you an example. I'm on the motorway. 5th gear, 70mph, in my turbo car. Nothing beasty, just a golf gti or something. Foot down, there she is, instant boost. Instant. Turbos there.

Same situation, civic type r. Foot down, thoughts of "oh fuckkkkkkk I'm not in the powerband y0000000!!!!" drop it down 19 gears, hopefully find one that puts me in the cams range.

Ok so I'm exaggerating but a turbo has boost from around 2.5k right to its redline. You know as well as I do that a vtec y0 needs to be in the sweetspot or its game over. Off cam, they're pretty dead.

[Jazz]

But say both cars are in their optimum power band. The Turbo car's throttle response seldom feels quite as sharp when you first touch it- the N/A engine will be immediate with no wait for any spool. Having driven the Type R, Golf GTi and Focus ST within a few days of each other I can instantly feel the difference.

You're talking about engine response. I'm talking about throttle response.

Having owned plenty of both ill still maintain that turbo has the outright grunt but n/a has the feel and instant response.

[Jazz]

ive always hated the model youve bought if im honest..but i seen one with a kit on in black a few weeks back..and i liked it lol

it had a spoiler..A SPOILER OF ALL THINGS! but it suited it well tbf..

and i do have a secret love of them in white..

Sounds like you saw a Mugen one dude, they look meaner :)

[blackie_2k5]

Sounds like you saw a Mugen one dude, they look meaner :)

thats what i thought(did try to google it)

couldnt find any decent pics

....was smart though.and local ;)

[Ross]

Had a spoiler? Must be quick. Probably needs all that downforce on the rear wheels when it's vtec'ing it's vtec, y0

[blackie_2k5]

Had a spoiler? Must be quick. Probably needs all that downforce on the rear wheels when it's vtec'ing it's vtec, y0

trollolol ;)


mugen....in black..with purple wheels...


http://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/files/imagecache/article_image_480/honda-civic-typermugen5drhatchback-2110994404387234x155.jpg


i hate them...but that kit makes it ^^

same as i hate focus..but Rs...

[Ross]

Ahhh silly blackie. It's not a spoiler, it's a wheelie bar for all the torque. No wait, that doesn't sound right... :(

[blackie_2k5]

lol!

as said im not a fan..and looking at that pic makes me cringe too...

but seeing it infront of me in black...it looked smart

very similar to a 350z (which i also dislike)

but it just worked

[deano_123]

I got this far in the thread and felt the need to post before reading out the thread.

So many people belive Vtec has a lack of torque, full stop. They have around the same amount of torque as any other 2.0 NA car of the same catagory, they just produce the torque further up the rev range.

there arent many 'hot hatch' NA 2 litres though, everyone wised up and went turbo. yes the torque is available further up the rev range but thats retarded, dropping the Vtec points helps. its an expensive process to get decent power out of the engine and keep it NA.

i'd have another though, this time on TB's

[Ross]

there arent many 'hot hatch' NA 2 litres though, everyone wised up and went turbo. yes the torque is available further up the rev range but thats retarded, dropping the Vtec points helps. its an expensive process to get decent power out of the engine and keep it NA.

i'd have another though, this time on TB's

no no no. You're doing it wrong.

We've gone to far in this thread to make a sensible recovery. We're at the "memegenerator" stage now - move on :p

[marinemackay2003]

But to get more power out of the type r and lower the vtec is relativly straight forward? Ive been to a couple of places to get work done and the power they make with subtle mods is impressive. Add a lsd in there and its a superb car

[Tommo87]

Peeps do know the K20 isn't all that impressive, Honda had 200hp from 2L way back in 97 and have been hitting the 100HP/L mark consistently since the late 80s.

If FI is a must then boost the K20 as the lads stateside seem to get 300+WHP on stock blocks reliably.

[Mr_X]

If FI is a must then boost the K20 as the lads stateside seem to get 300+WHP on stock blocks reliably.

Good package imo

[deano_123]

Peeps do know the K20 isn't all that impressive, Honda had 200hp from 2L way back in 97 and have been hitting the 100HP/L mark consistently since the late 80s.

If FI is a must then boost the K20 as the lads stateside seem to get 300+WHP on stock blocks reliably.

US figures mean nothing, on the evo-m forum they regularly get 600+ out of an evo on standard rods, in the uk anything over 440 and it grenades. fuck america

[Mochachino]

I have got a question, why do alot of kit cars and single seaters use the K20?

[Tommo87]

Because its a high revving, lightweight, relatively powerful, quite easily tunable screaming NA lump.

Personally I'd use the F20c from the S2000 for in a kit car.

[AlexB]

boost the K20 as the lads stateside seem to get 300+WHP on stock blocks reliably.

we run.330 reliably on an fn2 with stock engine and a rotrex c30-74

has 428 on that car over the weekend with a c30-94

they can.take a fair bit of abuse

[KamRacing]

Because its a high revving, lightweight, relatively powerful, quite easily tunable screaming NA lump.

Personally I'd use the F20c from the S2000 for in a kit car.

Most kit car manufacturers are using the engine in its standard configuration in the back. Its cheaper than using the F20c and sticking it in the front with a custom propshaft and rear diff, or running a custom gearbox at the rear to run mid engined.

Peeps do know the K20 isn't all that impressive, Honda had 200hp from 2L way back in 97 and have been hitting the 100HP/L mark consistently since the late 80s.

If FI is a must then boost the K20 as the lads stateside seem to get 300+WHP on stock blocks reliably.

Its not about peak power though. You will find the newer 200bhp engines more drivable and producing better torque in the midrange as well as better fuel consumption and emissions.

[Ryan]

I have got a question, why do alot of kit cars and single seaters use the K20?

Depends on what ones you look at. The vauxhall and ford lumps have been favourites for many years.

Also the vag 1.8T conversion has been a popular one.

I guess it depends if you want a car that sounds like a sewing machine or not.

At least by putting the lump in a kit car it gets rid of the oh so dating badly honda styling.