Hillsborough

[DUFC]

Genuinely utterly shocked at what the south yorkshire police and the sun have done to those families.
had no clue about the major facts of hillsborough, especially with the corruption.
Was speaking about this today and can understand to an extent why the police were stopping fans climbing over the fence, liverpool fans (and especially in that era) may not have had the best rep. But to lie, to tamper with statements, to blame the fans... Is just baffling, hope all involved get done with manslaughter.

[stevo67]

It brings back not nice memories for me,because I was a season ticket holder at the time & was offered a lift up there,but decided not to go.I have family living on merseyside & to think that people i`d stood with on the kop were dying/dead shook me up.Lets hope that those responsible for the tragic events get due punishment.

[nicole_]

my uncle was there that day, my family are die hard liverpool supporters. he doesnt talk about it, must have been so terrifying and he was only young

[DUFC]

Im not old enough to say what it was like when it was standing.
But iv been at turnstiles where you get tossed about like mad, remember when i was wee, it was injury time and everyone was leaving, then we scored, all the fans that were heading for the exits piled back down and i got pinned against a barrier, winded me and literally couldnt breathe, couldnt bear to think about that to the point of suffocation.

[GolfJay]

Link to whatever this is about?

[smiith]

Basically jay.. A bunch of scousers started pushing and shoving, people died.. It was covered up by the police, who said it was down to drunk fans, when there could have been other causes of it.. So people want police to be put on trial.. Was like 40 years ago

[GolfJay]

Basically jay.. A bunch of scousers started pushing and shoving, people died.. It was covered up by the police, who said it was down to drunk fans, when there could have been other causes of it.. So people want police to be put on trial.. Was like 40 years ago

I know about the disaster but the way the OP has put it, it sounds like they've only just come out about something?

[smiith]

Something to do with police changing statements, to make it just brush under the carpet apparently..

[DUFC]

I know about the disaster but the way the OP has put it, it sounds like they've only just come out about something?

For 23 years police blamed fans, only on wednesday did the police accept they were at fault. And tried to hide the evidence against them previously.

[mtpagey]

I dont see how the police were at fault for the accident though. Surely only 'X' amount of people should have been allowed to pay entrance to an area the size of 'Y'. It was the aftermath with the press and the numerous false claims getting thrown about that everyone's still angry with.

All this "shut down the sun" stuff on facebook is a load of crap though imo, its been 23 years and the paper's still going. A few thousand 'likes' on a social networking site aren't going to change that.

[Randyransford91]

Tbh you can't just blame the police, some blame has to go to other parties. Fans should have turned up earlier not 10 mins before kick off. The FA should not have used Hillsborough for the event after 'crushing' had previously happened. SWFC should be also blamed for over estimating the capacity. Yeah the police messed up by covering up, but I think people are blaming police because it's an easy way out.

Anyway R.I.P to the 96

[stevo67]

The game shouldn`t have gone ahead anyway,because there had been previous games there where people had suffered injuries due to crushing,this has only just come to light now.I think 1 or 2 people that have commented here are blatantly not aware of the facts.

[mangojace]

Alot of police are dodgy fucks anyway. Cant expect much.

[0rang3peel]

Basically jay.. A bunch of scousers started pushing and shoving, people died.. It was covered up by the police, who said it was down to drunk fans, when there could have been other causes of it.. So people want police to be put on trial.. Was like 40 years ago

Errrr no.

It was mainly caused by police incompetence and then covered up by the police until it all got out yesterday.

Who cares if it was a long time ago, this is just like the phone hacking scandal and as a result a lot of people are going to get fucked and deservedly so.

I dont see how the police were at fault for the accident though. Surely only 'X' amount of people should have been allowed to pay entrance to an area the size of 'Y'. It was the aftermath with the press and the numerous false claims getting thrown about that everyone's still angry with.

The stadium was already miles over capacity, the police then decided to let in another 2000 odd people into the most crowded area, during the squeeze one of the barriers came down.

So it was a lot to do with police incompetence, although as you said the main issue is the police edited the files and reports from people trying to avoid the blame.

As an example an ambulance driver called in to request every ambulance in the area to be routed to hillsborough because of the scale of tragedy and his request was declined! the police crossed this information out of the report.

[Heliosphan]

Irrespective of who was to blame, the root cause of the disaster was the complete and utter disdain that the authorities had at the time towards football supporters. Hence the caged-in terraces, police who were more ready for a riot rather than to help people and the subsequent demonisation of those fans for over 20 years.

In a way, the root cause of this disaster still exists but in a different context. The authorities still look down on football supporters and view them as a section of society that must be controlled and made an example of. So instead of penning people in like animals, we now have the anti-racists, the holier-than-thou and the morally superior brigade spouting their nonense about what people can or cannot say or chant at a football match. It even applies to foreign supporters - Ukraine and Poland in the Euros before a ball was even kicked.

Back on topic, I'm not aware of any Facebook campaign regarding the Sun. If there is one, then people should understand that all the Sun did was report on the 'evidence' that it was given, i.e by the police or by people who spoke with the police.

This cover up is a disgrace and a damning reflection on the police. You can only hope that anyone guilty of deliberately distorting the truth is brought to account.

[DUFC]

Irrespective of who was to blame, the root cause of the disaster was the complete and utter disdain that the authorities had at the time towards football supporters. Hence the caged-in terraces, police who were more ready for a riot rather than to help people and the subsequent demonisation of those fans for over 20 years.

In a way, the root cause of this disaster still exists but in a different context. The authorities still look down on football supporters and view them as a section of society that must be controlled and made an example of. So instead of penning people in like animals, we now have the anti-racists, the holier-than-thou and the morally superior brigade spouting their nonense about what people can or cannot say or chant at a football match. It even applies to foreign supporters - Ukraine and Poland in the Euros before a ball was even kicked.

Back on topic, I'm not aware of any Facebook campaign regarding the Sun. If there is one, then people should understand that all the Sun did was report on the 'evidence' that it was given, i.e by the police or by people who spoke with the police.

This cover up is a disgrace and a damning reflection on the police. You can only hope that anyone guilty of deliberately distorting the truth is brought to account.

Correct sir :y:

[Dom]

iirc, The Sun made up a story saying that the supporters were rioting and fighting the police/ambulance staff.

They later admitted they lied. No police reports/evidence, just picked the story out of thin air.

Sorry, my mistake, they printed this;
The tabloid's front page four days after the 1989 tragedy included unsubstantiated police claims that Liverpool fans had urinating on rescue workers and officers and pickpocketing victims.

http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/50520ade6bb3f7ef2c000012/the-sun-hillsborough.jpg

[Heliosphan]

...which is entirely consistent with what the police were saying at the time.

[Dom]

Which you are correct, I admitted that with the edit :)

Watching the footage on youtube sends shivers through me.

R.I.P. 96

[logic_guy]

Police can't be at blame tbh.

A mob over ran the gates, opened the fire exits and let a load more people in. The game started and people who were outside weren't supposed to be there but wanted to see the action. Pushed their way in and caused the front few lines of people to be squashed.


What are the police supposed to do when a wave of people come flooding in through a open gate? A handful of police officers against 1000's of fans. Not like they could even put up resistance.

Imo. Fan's are to blame for being so thick. The police are awful for sweeping it under the rug though.

[DUFC]

Police can't be at blame tbh.

A mob over ran the gates, opened the fire exits and let a load more people in. The game started and people who were outside weren't supposed to be there but wanted to see the action. Pushed their way in and caused the front few lines of people to be squashed.


What are the police supposed to do when a wave of people come flooding in through a open gate? A handful of police officers against 1000's of fans. Not like they could even put up resistance.

Imo. Fan's are to blame for being so thick. The police are awful for sweeping it under the rug though.

It was the police that opened the exit gates though.

[logic_guy]

It was the police that opened the exit gates though.

:O So it was

http://youtu.be/5ifgOeQnFn8

I've always been told that supporters opened the gates.

[Ross]

I've had to do quite a lot of pruning in this thread to keep it on topic and open minded.

If you post an opinion, please just respect that others might have been affected by this in a different way to you. Keep it nice and we can keep the debate open. But if the name calling starts again... There'll be trouble. :)

[devilsadvocate]

Genuinely utterly shocked at what the south yorkshire police

Are you?

Im not.......

[Rich84]

Police can't be at blame tbh.

A mob over ran the gates, opened the fire exits and let a load more people in. The game started and people who were outside weren't supposed to be there but wanted to see the action. Pushed their way in and caused the front few lines of people to be squashed.


What are the police supposed to do when a wave of people come flooding in through a open gate? A handful of police officers against 1000's of fans. Not like they could even put up resistance.

Imo. Fan's are to blame for being so thick. The police are awful for sweeping it under the rug though.

Yet that gets to stay in the thread???

[Ross]

Yet that gets to stay in the thread???

Did you not bother to read the remaining posts?

It was the police that opened the exit gates though.

:O So it was

http://youtu.be/5ifgOeQnFn8

I've always been told that supporters opened the gates.

So. That's someone with an opinion that was wrong, that's been educated in the thread, exactly the purpose OF the thread.

So yes, it got to stay in the thread so others can learn from it too.

[Rich84]

You said about respecting others an this bit gets kept in.



Imo. Fan's are to blame for being so thick

Yes his opinion was wrong, yes he has been educated but that is far worse than what I said about about people in here..

[Quick]

It wasn't the first football disaster on the terraces, happened at Bolton in 1946, fire at Bradford 1985 etc..

Bad design didn't help or the fences to keep fans off the pitch .

[deans2k8]

Police can't be at blame tbh.

A mob over ran the gates, opened the fire exits and let a load more people in. The game started and people who were outside weren't supposed to be there but wanted to see the action. Pushed their way in and caused the front few lines of people to be squashed.


What are the police supposed to do when a wave of people come flooding in through a open gate? A handful of police officers against 1000's of fans. Not like they could even put up resistance.

Imo. Fan's are to blame for being so thick. The police are awful for sweeping it under the rug though.

+1 on this!

[Dom]

Bradford fire wasn't at catastrophic as it could have been, the police did excellent on this one.
For those who have never seen it. In 3 minutes, the whole stand was up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIxN3ypB3rw

Heysel didn't help Liverpool FC at the time. FACT.

Think about it, they had been known for crowd trouble/violence. Yes the stadiums designs were at fault, but there should have been no need for the trouble in the first place if common sense was used!
(Edit; Not saying the Liverpool fans were at fault 100% at Hillsborough btw.)

[DUFC]

Heysel didn't help Liverpool FC at the time. FACT.

Think about it, they had been known for crowd trouble/violence. Yes the stadiums designs were at fault, but there should have been no need for the trouble in the first place if common sense was used!
(Edit; Not saying the Liverpool fans were at fault 100% at Hillsborough btw.)

This exactly mate, the history of their fans reputation was paramount to how the police reacted

[Rich84]

Police can't be at blame tbh.

A mob over ran the gates, opened the fire exits and let a load more people in. The game started and people who were outside weren't supposed to be there but wanted to see the action. Pushed their way in and caused the front few lines of people to be squashed.


What are the police supposed to do when a wave of people come flooding in through a open gate? A handful of police officers against 1000's of fans. Not like they could even put up resistance.

Imo. Fan's are to blame for being so thick. The police are awful for sweeping it under the rug though.

+1 on this!

proving my point about it being removed when you get another mong agreeing with it