royal marines

[imDan]

Anyone heard about this and what are your thoughts about it?

http://www.dailynews.lk/2012/10/16/wld03.asp

Uk link - http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/five-royal-marines-charged-with-murder-1379595

Theres a petition as well for anyone interested

https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/40154

Edit: Uk link

[Quick]

Marnines????


Do you mean Marines???

[Quick]

Also why a Sri Lankan link???

[imDan]

Also why a Sri Lankan link???

Opps sorry boss! Will get a uk link just for you bro.

[Bedford126]

Was working for a sergeant major last weak and from what I could understand they are pretty much fucked for not following the rules of engagement set by the geneva convention.

That said no petition is going to stop the rulings given. Fair enough its not right that you see the enemy and cant shoot them unless they shoot you first or point a weapon with the intent of use. The rules are fucked up but so is war i feel bad for the lads but its just the way it is and has been for years.

[Rogue_Shadow]

Fair enough its not right that you see the enemy and cant shoot them unless they shoot you first

First time I learn about rules of engagement was Black Hawk Down :y:



Grimes: Why aren't you shooting?
Waddell: We're not being shot at yet.
Grimes: How can you tell?
Waddell: A hiss means it's close. A snap means...
[a bullet whizzes close by]
Waddell: Now they're shooting at us!
[they begin returning fire]

[P_Connor]

I am seriously considering the armed forces tbh. It appeals to me a lot. But I want to find out more about it first.

[matt_vtr_15a]

I think it's kind of fucked up, there can be a group of taliban stood 100 yards away with AK's and the armed forces have to wait until they are shot at (which could be potentially fatal)

One of the 'our war' documentaries filmed the taliban no more than 100 yards away stood in a group with guns just staring at a tower with army lads in..

the lads knew they where taliban but couldn't do a thing until one of them nearly got his head took clean off...

then they mopped up a couple of the dirty cunts!!

[Tommo87]

Surely if everyone followed the rules of engagement then war would not be profitable for governments as no one would fire a round if the case is you need to wait to be fired on before firing back.

[Gabbastard]

If I remember correctly, its against the Geneva convention to shoot someone at the same time as bayonetting them.

[Bedford126]

Surely if everyone followed the rules of engagement then war would not be profitable for governments as no one would fire a round if the case is you need to wait to be fired on before firing back.

But not every one follows the rules of engagement just look at all the IED'S that the taliban lay.

If I remember correctly, its against the Geneva convention to shoot someone at the same time as bayonetting them.

Yeah that is also true. It is also against the Geneva convention to shoot some one in the back.

[matt_vtr_15a]

Surely if everyone followed the rules of engagement then war would not be profitable for governments as no one would fire a round if the case is you need to wait to be fired on before firing back.

It's just to set standards for armed forces you can't expect Taliban/Rebel forces to adhere to them... lol

[Bedford126]

Work this one out then. The worlds largest supplier for arms and ammunition in 2006 was the uk. Although it is illegal to sell or to buy ammunition in this country without a licence we have no problem in making and selling to anyone who want's to buy.

Edit just had a check We are still 5th in the world

[Tommo87]

Rules are rules if the group you are fighting doesn't follow them why should we, war is war and its not a nice thing.

Personally I think it's a joke, it's kill or be killed simple as that, all is fair in love and war.

[Bedford126]

Rules are rules if the group you are fighting doesn't follow them why should we, war is war and its not a nice thing.

Personally I think it's a joke, it's kill or be killed simple as that, all is fair in love and war.

Wow that's a intelligent statement

The Taliban are not a member and did not sign the Geneva convention so why would they follow the rules. We are part of the convention as so we have to follow the rules of engagement.

[Giraffe]

Wow that's a intelligent statement

The Taliban are not a member and did not sign the Geneva convention so why would they follow the rules. We are part of the convention as so we have to follow the rules of engagement.

I think he's trying to highlight the unfairness of being restricted in combat against an opponent who is not restricted.

[Tommo87]

I think he's trying to highlight the unfairness of being restricted in combat against an opponent who is not restricted.

*Thanks*

[Bedford126]

*Thanks*

I think he's trying to highlight the unfairness of being restricted in combat against an opponent who is not restricted.

It's not a valid argument the convention is there to stop things like genocide and pretty much everything Hitler and war lords did and do also to protect the innocent people involved in war.

If it wasn't there would be nothing stopping anyone invading a country and killing every one in sight just because they thought they were in danger.

[Jungle]

Don't get me started. How the fuck can you have rules in war, especially when it's a war against an enemy that has no rules at all.

[matt_vtr_15a]

It's not a valid argument the convention is there to stop things like genocide and pretty much everything Hitler and war lords did and do also to protect the innocent people involved in war.

If it wasn't there would be nothing stopping anyone invading a country and killing every one in sight just because they thought they were in danger.

Yeah which is fair enough between countries... but if you're fighting terrorists that don't adhere to the law... then they should have no rights at all...

FUCK THEM

[Giraffe]

It's not a valid argument the convention is there to stop things like genocide and pretty much everything Hitler and war lords did and do also to protect the innocent people involved in war.

If it wasn't there would be nothing stopping anyone invading a country and killing every one in sight just because they thought they were in danger.

The convention is great for those who actually follow it. It's not so great for those who are trying to follow it whilst fighting someone who doesn't.

If you turned up to a boxing fight and your opponent started kneeing you in the bollocks, would you adhere to the rules after that?

I know it's there to stop barbaric acts being commit by those who follow it, and it separates us from them in terms of morality, but I do wonder how practical it is in these circumstances.

[beanhead]

What idiot would sign that petition? If its true they killed a man in custody and are convicted in court then they need to be punished. It seems some people think becuase they're marines and "protect our country" (what a load of rubbish btw) that they can get away with murder.

[Jazz]

I think some people have the wrong end of the stick.

Apparantly the man was unarmed and in secure custody according to some sources? Which is why these charges have come about.

We know better than the enemy. When they are in our custody we must not lose our values, and if some trigger-happy marines have done that and let the side down, they should be held to account.

[nuttysaxo]

The whole situation is difficult for the armed forces , they are fighting an enemy that have no rules , infact no proper uniform , correct me if i am wrong but if you engage the enemy and they are not wearing a uniform to identify them as the otherside and you get captured you can be shot ? and no this happened for a fact in WW2 as Germans caught at the end of WW2 were excuted if caught in combat without uniform ! . The soldiers are highly stressed , some suffering from mental ilness , would you not be the same if you was put in that situation ? and please do not tell me that they should not of signed up to the job ! some joined because of lack of employment some to gain a better job when they finish their term in the armed forces ! , the government is to blame for sending them to a place where a battle can never be won ! remember the soviet union was there and pulled out !
I am behind the soldiers , if they murder or rape then yes they should be punished but i am afraid the U.K has become all to PC and has forgotten its own peoples needs .

[mangojace]

The whole situation is difficult for the armed forces , they are fighting an enemy that have no rules , infact no proper uniform , correct me if i am wrong but if you engage the enemy and they are not wearing a uniform to identify them as the otherside and you get captured you can be shot ? and no this happened for a fact in WW2 as Germans caught at the end of WW2 were excuted if caught in combat without uniform ! . The soldiers are highly stressed , some suffering from mental ilness , would you not be the same if you was put in that situation ? and please do not tell me that they should not of signed up to the job ! some joined because of lack of employment some to gain a better job when they finish their term in the armed forces ! , the government is to blame for sending them to a place where a battle can never be won ! remember the soviet union was there and pulled out !
I am behind the soldiers , if they murder or rape then yes they should be punished but i am afraid the U.K has become all to PC and has forgotten its own peoples needs .

Exactly, they probably just lost there best mate who had been shot. Doubt they would think twice about thinking some suspect terrorist. People who think they should get done for murder are pathetic, its a fucking war zone.

[Giraffe]

Exactly, they probably just lost there best mate who had been shot. Doubt they would think twice about thinking some suspect terrorist. People who think they should get done for murder are pathetic, its a fucking war zone.

Right, so if someone murders your sister and you go out and kill them, should you be done for murder?

[mangojace]

Right, so if someone murders your sister and you go out and kill them, should you be done for murder?

lool how is that the same?

[manta]

Right, so if someone murders your sister and you go out and kill them, should you be done for murder?

no, you shouldn't.

[nuttysaxo]

Exactly, they probably just lost there best mate who had been shot. Doubt they would think twice about thinking some suspect terrorist. People who think they should get done for murder are pathetic, its a fucking war zone.

Thankyou mate for backing me up ! some people have a massive problem supporting the troops ! if the battle ended up in our country would those who sit on the fence hide under their beds ?

[Giraffe]

lool how is that the same?

Well you're saying that these marines were probably angry they had lost their mate. Why does that give them the right to shoot an unarmed person? Rules are there for a reason, and they allegedly broke them. It's really that simple. These people are only terrorists from one point of view, would do you well to remember that. Good, evil, right and wrong are only points of view. To some of them, we're, meaning the Western world, the terrorists. I do wonder how many of these "Terrorists" are actually there out of choice. It's not as if the armies that are fighting the Taliban haven't commit their own atrocities or taken innocent lives by mistake and still aren't held accountable in some cases...

[nuttysaxo]

Well you're saying that these marines were probably angry they had lost their mate. Why does that give them the right to shoot an unarmed person? Rules are there for a reason, and they allegedly broke them. It's really that simple. These people are only terrorists from one point of view, would do you well to remember that. Good, evil, right and wrong are only points of view. To some of them, we're, meaning the Western world, the terrorists. I do wonder how many of these "Terrorists" are actually there out of choice. It's not as if the armies that are fighting the Taliban haven't commit their own atrocities or taken innocent lives by mistake and still aren't held accountable in some cases...

The government should be accountable for this almightly feck up going back to the Iraq war , if you start holding soldiers accountable you'll have to dig up all the old soldiers going back centuries ! one example the carpet bombing of Dresden and Hamburg in WW2 hundred of thousands of deaths and civillians too ordered by the then government and high command ! the pilots were carrying out orders , wrong i know but nothing makes sense when heartless people control the world

[Giraffe]

The government should be accountable for this almightly feck up going back to the Iraq war , if you start holding soldiers accountable you'll have to dig up all the old soldiers going back centuries ! one example the carpet bombing of Dresden and Hamburg in WW2 hundred of thousands of deaths and civillians too ordered by the then government and high command ! the pilots were carrying out orders , wrong i know but nothing makes sense when heartless people control the world

I understand what you're saying, especially when it comes down to soldiers just following orders, but you have to remember that soldiers also have rules to follow and they weren't given the order to execute an unarmed enemy troop as far as I was aware.

The enemy soldiers are still just following orders, except the consequences for disobedience are probably far more severe than that of our own troops. Some of them will also be just as you described in the post beforehand - people who aren't sitting on a fence or hiding under their beds.

I'm not stating my personal view here, I'm just stating another point of view.

[nuttysaxo]

I understand what you're saying, especially when it comes down to soldiers just following orders, but you have to remember that soldiers also have rules to follow and they weren't given the order to execute an unarmed enemy troop as far as I was aware.

The enemy soldiers are still just following orders, except the consequences for disobedience are probably far more severe than that of our own troops. Some of them will also be just as you described in the post beforehand - people who aren't sitting on a fence or hiding under their beds.

I'm not stating my personal view here, I'm just stating another point of view.

Fair enough mate , i just got slated on another thread for my beliefs ! , but listen the soldiers get so much grief , it was not that long a go that soldiers would be shot for being cowards ! , one story from WW1 this soldier lost every man in hes platoon , he was shell shocked and found wandering the French fields , it was a miracle he survived but no hes own side shot him ! war makes no sense ! , but i connect to the average soldier , he comes from the same walk's of life as most of us , council estates etc , he is not a stuck up pounce , he is putting hes neck out and if the battle ended up here people would want them to help and they would be there for us :y:

[Giraffe]

Fair enough mate , i just got slated on another thread for my beliefs ! , but listen the soldiers get so much grief , it was not that long a go that soldiers would be shot for being cowards ! , one story from WW1 this soldier lost every man in hes platoon , he was shell shocked and found wandering the French fields , it was a miracle he survived but no hes own side shot him ! war makes no sense ! , but i connect to the average soldier , he comes from the same walk's of life as most of us , council estates etc , he is not a stuck up pounce , he is putting hes neck out and if the battle ended up here people would want them to help and they would be there for us :y:

It was me who slated you, mate. There are a lot of soldiers who are just straight up pricks though, and a few who think they deserve some sort of special respect of treatment for what they do... I disagree with that. I have no doubts that their job is dangerous and takes a great deal of courage though. I'm friends with people in the army and they aren't like I've described, but I've seen some who are.

[iVTR]

Admittedly I read the report for about 4 seconds,

but all I gathered was a taliban soldier lay dieing whilst they decided what to do.

Who the fuck cares? I thought they are fighting the taliban..?

[mangojace]

Thankyou mate for backing me up ! some people have a massive problem supporting the troops ! if the battle ended up in our country would those who sit on the fence hide under their beds ?

They would hide mate and carry on being keyboard warriors. Are country is too soft.

I mean people near usto the papers compaining about the chinooks coming back late at night from afghan and that it wakes them up? Who cares they have a job too do and most people new they were moving near a RAF base.

Well you're saying that these marines were probably angry they had lost their mate. Why does that give them the right to shoot an unarmed person? Rules are there for a reason, and they allegedly broke them. It's really that simple. These people are only terrorists from one point of view, would do you well to remember that. Good, evil, right and wrong are only points of view. To some of them, we're, meaning the Western world, the terrorists. I do wonder how many of these "Terrorists" are actually there out of choice. It's not as if the armies that are fighting the Taliban haven't commit their own atrocities or taken innocent lives by mistake and still aren't held accountable in some cases...

If one of our soldiers were unarmed they would still be shot at. FACT

The marines done right, fair play to them.

[nuttysaxo]

It was me who slated you, mate. There are a lot of soldiers who are just straight up pricks though, and a few who think they deserve some sort of special respect of treatment for what they do... I disagree with that. I have no doubts that their job is dangerous and takes a great deal of courage though. I'm friends with people in the army and they aren't like I've described, but I've seen some who are.

I have 2 mates who are serving there long time squaddies , decent blokes one being hard as nails but would never take liberties ! , yes i got accused of being edl , hitler etc ! lol , funny thing i have relatives who are half jewish and a girl friend who is coloured so if that makes me right wing then i suppose i am ! lol , i just love me country and yes i have lived overseas but i accepted the culture i did not put up my flag and expect to change it ! ..

[Ross]

I have 2 mates who are serving there long time squaddies , decent blokes one being hard as nails but would never take liberties ! , yes i got accused of being edl , hitler etc ! lol , funny thing i have relatives who are half jewish and a girl friend who is coloured so if that makes me right wing then i suppose i am ! lol , i just love me country and yes i have lived overseas but i accepted the culture i did not put up my flag and expect to change it ! ..

you realize referring to a black person as coloured is no longer considered acceptable, right? There's a certain irony here. :p

[nuttysaxo]

you realize referring to a black person as coloured is no longer considered acceptable, right? There's a certain irony here. :p

Yes i am sorry lol , i'll ask her to forgive me for this later on tonight ;)

[McGuire86]

End of the day we shouldn't be there, you can't win a guerrilla war. We will pull out within a couple or years with fuck all to show for it apart from too many British soldiers dieing for nothing.

[0rang3peel]

I think we should follow in switzerlands foot steps.

fuck all this shit, let america do it

AMERICA, FUCK YEAH

[mangojace]

Originally Posted by Dave_E30
It was me who slated you, mate. There are a lot of soldiers who are just straight up pricks though, and a few who think they deserve some sort of special respect of treatment for what they do... I disagree with that. I have no doubts that their job is dangerous and takes a great deal of courage though. I'm friends with people in the army and they aren't like I've described, but I've seen some who are.

There are alot of civvies who are straight up pricks too. They deserve respect. I doubt you would go through what they have too.

But at the end of the day the Taliban won't be defeated. You cant win a war like that

[nuttysaxo]

End of the day we shouldn't be there, you can't win a guerrilla war. We will pull out within a couple or years with fuck all to show for it apart from too many British soldiers dieing for nothing.

Totally agree mate :y: there must be of something of interest to the government there , why waste billion's of tax payers money on a war you can not win ! , we all know the reason behind the Iraq war " weapons of mass destruction " NOT :n: it was over oil and rebuilding contracts when it was to be flattened by the U.S.A , though they never realised when you dispose of a dictator like sadam that chaos would follow ! the same happens all the time in the arab countries and many others too .

[kmak577]

get the camera's and the do gooder's out the way and let the lads get on with. By that I mean engaging genuine targets, whether that's when they are firing their weapons or in their compounds asleep!

[Ross]

get the camera's and the do gooder's out the way and let the lads get on with. By that I mean engaging genuine targets, whether that's when they are firing their weapons or in their compounds asleep!

and when they do not comply with any form of known practice or standards set down on how to fight fairly (IE, dressed in civvies sleeping in the same room/bed/compound as innocents) how do you propose to tell one from another?

The whole reason we cannot fire until fired upon is to ensure we are targeting a legitimate fighting threat. Not someone with a hoe or brush 1000 yards away, who with heat haze through a scope "might" be a target.

Back in WW2 etc, it was much simpler - oh lookie, German uniform. Shoot him before he sees me. We can't apply the same rules now - war has changed.

[Tringaling]

Before you can engage you need an accurate PID to identify who your enemy is and where they are firing from.

The Taliban won't get too close unless it's on a cowards mission (suicide or throw and run)

One thing that constantly pisses me off is that they can "borrow" uniform from ANA or ANP and shoot our boys whilst they sleep which as you can all imagine creates a very nervy atmosphere.

Free the 5 - this is fucking war not field games, 6 of one half dozen of the other simple as that.

[mangojace]

Before you can engage you need an accurate PID to identify who your enemy is and where they are firing from.

The Taliban won't get too close unless it's on a cowards mission (suicide or throw and run)

One thing that constantly pisses me off is that they can "borrow" uniform from ANA or ANP and shoot our boys whilst they sleep which as you can all imagine creates a very nervy atmosphere.

Free the 5 - this is fucking war not field games, 6 of one half dozen of the other simple as that.

Hit the nail on the head