work place accident.. claim or no claim?

[jay-vtr]

Yesterday at work I got my hand clamped in a machine, i've hurt my wrist, my fingers and fore arm.

Heres the low down

I'm being expected to run a machine I have had no training on, i'm not signed off but they still expect me to run it.

The safety interlocks do not work, If you open a cover to remove a jam then some of the line remains running. This is because it is powered by electrics but also air... the clamp that trapped my hand is powered by air. The interlock only cuts out electrical parts.

I'm kind of pissed off really because my new bike turns up Monday and now I can't go riding, even driving is a struggle!

My boss and the health and safety rep are not very helpful at all. I asked who is responsible to ensure that the line is safe and they don't have a clue.

Today I have been looking at the health and safety risk assessment and safe system of work forms for the machine and it says (not to be operated by untrained operators... Full training must be provided by the employer and the employee must be signed off)

It also says in the risk assessment that the likelihood of an accident is minimal due to the covers having interlocks in place that shut off the machine once opened...

Hmmmmmm Ideas?

[mlawlan69]

claim.

[EwynSaxo]

Claim bro sounds like you got a good chance but more than likely lose your job for claiming not sure how it works

[jay-vtr]

Claim bro sounds like you got a good chance but more than likely lose your job for claiming not sure how it works

I've got two ways of claiming I think, the guy that designed the machine has obviously not designed it correctly for the interlock not to cut out the whole machine so I believe he is at fault...

But then my employers at fault for making me run it without training... I think they'd just blame each other and i'd be sacked?

[Brettles1986]

This is one of those occasions where I would say, If you are likely to be at financial loss in some way or another then go ahead and claim. On the other hand though it may be worth considering that you are not going to get a warm welcome on return to your workplace assuming you keep your job.

[Ashleyp]

there's pro's and con's for claiming.

Me personally though, I probably wouldn't claim. Where I used to work, we used to break health and safety regulations all the time to get the job done quicker and easier. every now and again, someone would get a minor injury and have a few days off. nobody made a 'claim' against the company because we knew what we were doing was wrong, but right in a way lol.

I see your situation as fairly similar. You knew you shouldn't have operated that machine, you knew it wasn't working properly. did you make sure your manager did anything about it, before the accident? probably not, because breaking the regulations is more efficient...

You weren't concerned that the rules weren't being followed before the accident, it's only now you realise you can't go play on your new bike that you're annoyed.

I'm not saying breaching health and safety regs is right, or that it's right you're injured, but at the same time, making a claim could cause a longer list of problems than a few days off work and waiting a while before riding a bike...

[EwynSaxo]

This is one of those occasions where I would say, If you are likely to be at financial loss in some way or another then go ahead and claim. On the other hand though it may be worth considering that you are not going to get a warm welcome on return to your workplace assuming you keep your job.

On a good note they'd make sure it doesn't happen to anyone else

[welshpug]

could have just said no...

[Prickle]

could have just said no...

My thoughts really.

[jay-vtr]

there's pro's and con's for claiming.

Me personally though, I probably wouldn't claim. Where I used to work, we used to break health and safety regulations all the time to get the job done quicker and easier. every now and again, someone would get a minor injury and have a few days off. nobody made a 'claim' against the company because we knew what we were doing was wrong, but right in a way lol.

I see your situation as fairly similar. You knew you shouldn't have operated that machine, you knew it wasn't working properly. did you make sure your manager did anything about it, before the accident? probably not, because breaking the regulations is more efficient...

You weren't concerned that the rules weren't being followed before the accident, it's only now you realise you can't go play on your new bike that you're annoyed.

I'm not saying breaching health and safety regs is right, or that it's right you're injured, but at the same time, making a claim could cause a longer list of problems than a few days off work and waiting a while before riding a bike...

It was only today that I was told by a supervisor that I shouldn't have been asked to run the machine as I don't have training, he was the one who showed me the health and safety paperwork, he was saying how the manager had put my safety at risk and is at fault.

I wasn't aware it wasn't working properly, the machine is new and has just been designed and installed by an external company. We only found out the machine didn't cut out the air when the cover was opened when it smashed down on my hand and dragged my arm in.

If i was aware I shouldn't have been asked to run the machine and required adequate training then I would have said I am not running it.

If I was aware the machine has not been designed to conform with health and safety regs then I would have also said I am not running it.

[wadoryu]

If you know the machine is faulty and use It, it'd your fault. How ever if you have alerted your manager that the machine is faulty and they have done nothing about it, then it's their fault and you can claim.

[Ashleyp]

It was only today that I was told by a supervisor that I shouldn't have been asked to run the machine as I don't have training, he was the one who showed me the health and safety paperwork, he was saying how the manager had put my safety at risk and is at fault.

I wasn't aware it wasn't working properly, the machine is new and has just been designed and installed by an external company. We only found out the machine didn't cut out the air when the cover was opened when it smashed down on my hand and dragged my arm in.

If i was aware I shouldn't have been asked to run the machine and required adequate training then I would have said I am not running it.

If I was aware the machine has not been designed to conform with health and safety regs then I would have also said I am not running it.

I see, my mistake. The initial post made it seem as if you knew it wasn't safe yet still did it.

You should speak to your managers, and try to come to an agreement. Although, I must add a cash settlement is pretty unlikley, without taking things further...

instantly jumping to the conclusion of making a claim probably won't end well, causing more problems in terms of work place harmony etc.

However, the chances of winning a claim / settlement with the company are pretty good. Companies have insurance for such reasons, and if anything your comany should be making a case against the machines provider for a faulty machine.

[jay-vtr]

Yeah that's the thing, there have been nine people there who have claimed for an accident, 3 major accidents and six minor, broken bones etc, sprained wrist, dislocated shoulder etc and they seem to be treated better to everyone else.

The bosses know who they can treat like crap and the ones they have to watch

[Ashleyp]

Do you have a head office to contact? or someone higher up the chain that won't fob you off?

I got mugged off with pay at an old workplace once, and my manager was quite helpful, yet the one above him was trying to push it to one side to save costs etc. Because I didn't get the pay I knew I deserved, I sent a firm letter to head office demanding the money I was entitled to, and said that i'd be forced to take matters further if it wasn't sorted.

I know it's not the same case, but my point is, if things don't get sorted, don't hesitate to be demanding with them.
Sometimes if you're too polite, people won't take you seriously. Another point is that people often mistake demanding for aggressive, and that can be the cause of the management getting arsey and not willing to help.

[deano_123]

claim for what exactly? if you want to fall into the mould of the jeremy kyle lot then by all means crack on son

as for the HSE side your right in what you say and it is the responsibility of yourself, supervisors and the HSE guy to rectify any work place issues. i work in HSE and if one of my guys had been as disinterested in this incident as your HSE guy i'd of had the fucker removed

[jones91]

By the sounds of what your saying, I think you have a good reason to claim, and you would probably win that claim, but then the management would probably get rid of you, not using the excuse of you claiming against them as that isn't a sackable offence, but they would nit-pick at your other work mistakes, and then use them to create a sackable offence to get rid of you, even though these errors would normally be overlooked in a normal environment

Unfortunately it's an unfair world like that, but nowadays it's just the way it is :n:

However I could be wrong, but if management are being arsey then that's what I'd reckon will happen

[stevo67]

If they (management)did get arsey with you then depending on you`re length of service you could have them for unfair dismissal.

[MJ05LLY]

When the machine was put on site, it should be CE marked and signed off by your head engineer and HSE persons.
This means they have tested the machine and they have accepted it and believe it conforms with all the regulations. Like the machine stoppingwith guards etc OR they have put safe working procedures in place.

Now your company is liable for your training and safety. So if you was told to run a machine it's your companies fault.

If they find you knew of this fault with the guards and did not report it then its different. It's your due care and attention to report any faults as soon as!
Your liable for your own risk assessments.

I feel you would have a very good reason to put in a claim and they can not sack you for doing so, but they will prob take you off the machine and make you do something rubbish.

I would report it too your manager, put it in your near miss book. Go to doctors and get it all documented. You do not have to claim straight away. Poss even have some time off due to your injuries. Backed up with a docs note. The near miss book records should be kept and you should also be able to keep a tab from it too.

I've been learning the sign off procedure with my boss on a new machine today and did a 1250 tonne extruding press's guarding and interlocking not so long ago

[Mr_P]

When the machine was put on site, it should be CE marked and signed off by your head engineer and HSE persons.
This means they have tested the machine and they have accepted it and believe it conforms with all the regulations. Like the machine stoppingwith guards etc OR they have put safe working procedures in place.

Now your company is liable for your training and safety. So if you was told to run a machine it's your companies fault.

If they find you knew of this fault with the guards and did not report it then its different. It's your due care and attention to report any faults as soon as!
Your liable for your own risk assessments.

I feel you would have a very good reason to put in a claim and they can not sack you for doing so, but they will prob take you off the machine and make you do something rubbish.

I would report it too your manager, put it in your near miss book. Go to doctors and get it all documented. You do not have to claim straight away. Poss even have some time off due to your injuries. Backed up with a docs note. The near miss book records should be kept and you should also be able to keep a tab from it too.

I've been learning the sign off procedure with my boss on a new machine today and did a 1250 tonne extruding press's guarding and interlocking not so long ago



I'm on my phone so not gonna get into this, but will point out one thing. He can't report it as near miss because it wasn't. Had the guard been removed, and the machine carried on running but nobody was injured then it should have been reported as a near miss. This is an accident.

OP. not got a union by any chance?

[OllieVigar]

A nice claim for some nice parts for you car ;)

[GolfJay]

I cant help but think that you were using equipment that YOU knew you wasn't trained on. You should have said no...

[jay-vtr]

I cant help but think that you were using equipment that YOU knew you wasn't trained on. You should have said no...

I didn't know I needed specific health and safety training for that machine, I was not informed of this at any point and treated it like any other machine in the factory.

We don't have a union... I have spoken to a solicitor and they said that claiming can have an adverse affect on my working life and the way management may treat me.

The bonuses are... The fact I have reported it as an incident, filled out the accident book, reported it to a manager, been to the doctors and had the injuries documented and the fact that I can claim upto 3 years after the accident..

So if I leave, find a new job or get fired then I may claim.

This new machine has not gone through any health and safety tests, the rest of the line has emergency stop buttons that aren't even wired in.

My boss is giving me a wide birth and letting me do what I like, he looks panicked... the last few days I have done fack all lol

The engineer who designed and built the machine is down on Monday so were going to have a chat, I've already told him to bring me a Big Mac, Large Fries and a Coke... He agreed... Sooo far soooo good!

[Jay_]

Why does everyone "have to be told" everything? What happened to good old common sense??

[GAS_7]

As long as its reported in the accident book you'll have a claim.