Post cycle update - (Pics Page 6 Post 115)

[matt_vtr_15a]

I am due to start a cycle, and can pick my gear up tonight...

I want my first cycle to be oral only, hence no test.

Winstrol (6weeks)
PCT (4weeks)
Clen (10weeks)


This will take me to mid april and hopefully in pretty good shape just before the summer!!

Training has taken a back seat due to work, golf and moving into my own place...

Now I'm settled and it's too cold for golf I have joined a new gym near my house which has an awesome variety of weights!

One of my mates has also moved in with me since breaking up with his girlfriend.. He is in really good shape (better shape than I have ever been)

So it's a good time to focus and attack the gym with someone who will only help to push me to meet my goals and he prepares a lot of meals so he will have me on a pretty good diet!

Sooo Fresh start!!

I am proposing the following cycle....

Winstrol:
Week 1 - 20mgs (daily)
Week 2 - 40mgs (daily)
Week 3 - 60mgs (daily)
Week 4 - 60mgs (daily)
Week 5 - 40mgs (daily)
Week 6 - 20mgs (daily)

PCT NOLVA
Week 7 - 10mgs
Week 8 - 10mgs
Week 9 - 10mgs
Week 10 - 10mgs

Clen:
Week 11 - 60mgs
Week 12 - 60mgs
Week 13 - Off
Week 14 - Off
Week 15 - 80mgs
Week 16 - 100mgs
Week 17 - Off
Week 18 - Off
Week 19 - 100mgs
Week 20 - 120mgs

The clen will still be in me for a few weeks after that so I think it should be a perfect time for me to start this now, I've looked into it for a while but never been able to commit myself enough to go through with it until now!!

I would appreciate any comments on the above cycle, and I can potentially re-consider dosages etc..

My body-fat is currently low to mid teens and I seriously haven't lifted a weight for a couple of months now...

Any advice? Should I get back into training for a couple of weeks and then start the cycle or just dive right in?

Also I am concerned about my joints on winstrol, any recommendations on supps to best prevent damaged joints?

Any help appreciated!!

I pick

[DusheR]

Personally I would just drop the winny at that dose. You definitely shouldn't taper up and no need to taper down.

Why not just run clen? Winny only will shut you down (although at that dose not much). Your PCT is just wrong, don't know where you get that from.

Who have gave you this cycle?

[matt_vtr_15a]

Personally I would just drop the winny at that dose. You definitely shouldn't taper up and no need to taper down.

Why not just run clen? Winny only will shut you down (although at that dose not much). Your PCT is just wrong, don't know where you get that from.

Who have gave you this cycle?

Cheers Dusher!!

I'm glad I posted it up now for that response alone.

The particular winstrol cycle was on a steroid information website, seemed pretty informative at the time!

The guy I'm getting it off was going to give me some information on a better cycle however he only has Clen that I can pick up tonight...

From what you have said, it doesn't seem worth the sides at all to run winnie if the cycle dosage is all wrong....and concerningly the pct!!

Think it may be worth just sticking to the Clen for the ten week cycle get my head down and see what I look like in 10 weeks... I could aim for single figure bodyfat and then that would open up a range of different options afterwards...maybe even growth!

I've actually been debating whether to run the winstrol/clen cycle of just clen cycle for a while now...

Maybe just clen is for the best....and in ten weeks time I should have a near single figure bodyfat body to work with...

Does that clen cycle seem ok to you? I read you can also do a bit of a stack with clen..

Clen /T3 & Ketotifen

Clen every morning from week 1 to 6
Ketotifen taken every night weeks 2 to 6
T3 Cytomel taken everyday weeks 1-3 and 7-9

Ketotifen keeps your beta 2 receptors in check and t3 just to stimulate the thyroid!!

Not sure if the above stack may favour the cycle I posted above?

[McGuire86]

I see Deja Vu

[DusheR]

Ive seen medical articles that informed me that the 2 on 2 off clen use might just be a load of broscience shit.

Ive always ran it this way, yet next time I will just run it ed tapering up.

If you want to run T3 keep the dose low, 50mcg ed should be plenty. It increases the rate of protein synthesis, hence why I lot of people say its catabolic and not recommended when natty. So adding it is up to you.

Never tried the ketotifen myself so can't comment.

[LWS_71]

Surely getting your diet spot on and hitting the gym hard for a few months first would be better. You say yourself you haven't lifted a weight in months. Seems like your just trying to cut corners and 'get rich fast'.

[matt_vtr_15a]

I see Deja Vu

Don't even go there hah gt gear before and in a rush left itvout in my room... mum found it and showed it my dad 'hes old school' and big against such things!

So that lasted all of about two days...

Dont live at home now so my house my rules kind of apply!

Goalposts have slightly moved now!

In response to comment about getting rich quick..

It's hardly cutting corners, its supplementation, i admit i could train first and then do it but i'd like to see the results of 'newbie gains' plus a cycle! As i've literally been out that long

Cheers again dusher, you find it effective?

[DusheR]

Surely getting your diet spot on and hitting the gym hard for a few months first would be better. You say yourself you haven't lifted a weight in months. Seems like your just trying to cut corners and 'get rich fast'.

Who doesn't want to get rich fast? Stupid thing to say. It wont work if his diet and training if off.

Don't even go there hah gt gear before and in a rush left itvout in my room... mum found it and showed it my dad 'hes old school' and big against such things!

So that lasted all of about two days...

Dont live at home now so my house my rules kind of apply!

Goalposts have slightly moved now!

In response to comment about getting rich quick..

It's hardly cutting corners, its supplementation, i admit i could train first and then do it but i'd like to see the results of 'newbie gains' plus a cycle! As i've literally been out that long

Cheers again dusher, you find it effective?

I'm on the endomorph side of things so anything thats going to speed up the process of fatloss is welcome. I found it to be useful tool yes. But at the time my diet was spot on, training was great and was doing 1 hour 20 to 2 hours SS cardio a day.

[matt_vtr_15a]

if you run winny at 80mg a day and its legit gear you will get solid lean gains.

as far as sides go, the worst is what? achy wrist?

pct after winny also??? if you insist, use clomid 50mg ed be fine after couple weeks.

good choice for a first cycle IMO. will set you aside from all the water buffalos runnin dbol and oxys!

if you nail you diet then you stand to gain at least 6-8lbs being your first cycle. thats lean gains! would be more on dbol and oxy but its a totally different cycle and look!

keep up posted with your plans.

Cheers for the input mate!!

6 week cycle on winstrol at 80mcg a day?

I heard that winstrol was quite liver toxic, hence the cycle I posted above being such low dosage as it obviously came from quite a cautious website...

I suppose 6 weeks on 80mcg a day wouldn't be too bad then, I drink shit loads of water anyway... probably 6 litres a day...

[DusheR]

achy wrists? That all you felt? Made me feel like an old man, every joint was dry.

PCT if he insists? Are you joking? Although the shutdown wont be too bad PCT is essential. Since winny does not aromatize then HCG and Clomid should do it.

Steroids only help you keep hold of your muscle, they don't directly burn fat. That is done by your diet and training. You could cut on dbol if you wanted.

No its not a good first cycle. Trust me. Every good cycle as a test base.

If your just looking to strip body fat stick to clen.

[blackie_2k5]

winnie at less then 50mg a day isnt worth running tbh

[matt_vtr_15a]

I'm on clen now running the cycle I posted above, seem to be dealing with it ok soo far!!

Didn't managed to get the ketotifen, but going to try and get some within the next two weeks so I can stay on clen without any breaks... and let the ketotifen clean my receptors out...

Will leave winstrol out of the equation for now, focus on getting my bodyfat right down as I'm doing a lot more intense cardio and high rep weight training than I expected so just going to focus on blasting this fat off...

Give it 6-10 weeks until I'm happy and then focus on a first cycle...

Any suggestions??

I'm trying to man up for injections but just hate everything about it.. I have a dead unsteady hand whilst doing it..

I manned myself up to do growth, but had to bin it when got caught by the old man with the stuff... otherwise be kicked out... I can do as I please now so really need to decide what would best suit me for first cycle...

[e8_pqck]

Just buy the Winnie amps and drink them.

You don't cycle clen like that, you need to taper up then maintain for a total of two Weeks.

[matt_vtr_15a]

Just buy the Winnie amps and drink them.

You don't cycle clen like that, you need to taper up then maintain for a total of two Weeks.

Got an example of how you would suggest cycling clen? I have only started today so time to correct myself...

[DusheR]

Just buy the Winnie amps and drink them.

You don't cycle clen like that, you need to taper up then maintain for a total of two Weeks.

Why would he do that when he can get tablets? :wacko:

If you drink 100mg is ment to be like injecting 50mg. Pointless imo.

i meant a good first oral cycle. not literally. id never cycle without test. but for a newbie scared of pins, its a good alternative to dbol and oxy water buffalos in the gym.

good luck with whatever you decide on!

in all honesty there is no solid right or wrong answers, its mainly down to personal experience and preference!

Its not a good first oral cycle either ha. If he didn't want bloat he could look into tbol, but personally Id just stick to dbol. Cheap and effective.

[DusheR]

I'm on clen now running the cycle I posted above, seem to be dealing with it ok soo far!!

Didn't managed to get the ketotifen, but going to try and get some within the next two weeks so I can stay on clen without any breaks... and let the ketotifen clean my receptors out...

Will leave winstrol out of the equation for now, focus on getting my bodyfat right down as I'm doing a lot more intense cardio and high rep weight training than I expected so just going to focus on blasting this fat off...

Give it 6-10 weeks until I'm happy and then focus on a first cycle...

Any suggestions??

I'm trying to man up for injections but just hate everything about it.. I have a dead unsteady hand whilst doing it..

I manned myself up to do growth, but had to bin it when got caught by the old man with the stuff... otherwise be kicked out... I can do as I please now so really need to decide what would best suit me for first cycle...

Just taper up ED and let us know how you get on. What clen are you using?

Injecting can be a pain in the ass like, no pun intended. Just get someone else to do it until you can get the courage to do it yourself.

[McGuire86]

If I was going to take the plunge and do steroids then I would just get on with injects. If you're going to do something serious like that you might aswell go all or nothing in my opinion.
It's not like you have to inject daily, I think it's weekly ? And like everything else in life, you get used to it

[blackie_2k5]

i aggree with not drinking the winstrol..the tablets are alot cheaper so youd just be pissing it up against the wall if you drank inj winny

as said though..get a mate to do your jabs, will get you used to the fact it dont hurt etc,

could also look into injecting your shoulders, needle is alot less scary to look at haha, but is a little less safe for a noob due to the veins/arteries in your arm

basic test e is always regarded as "best" first cycle..simple, good gains, easy to get hold of, should never double up or stack a first cycle either

know loads of ppl who think this is such a great idea -__- then when they have bad sides they dont know what caused it..so dont know which to stay away from

not to mention the pissing money up against the wall again stigma..should always get amazing results from your first cycle..or your not eating/training right..or have shit gear

[e8_pqck]

Why would he do that when he can get tablets? :wacko:

If you drink 100mg is ment to be like injecting 50mg. Pointless imo.



Its not a good first oral cycle either ha. If he didn't want bloat he could look into tbol, but personally Id just stick to dbol. Cheap and effective.

No Winnie is 17AA, its the exact same thing, that's why drinking it gives you the exact same effect. Hencewhy you have to shake it before you shoot. It is the only injectable that is 17AA and the only one worth drinking.

Tabs are usually 2-5Mg so NOT cost effective.

[e8_pqck]

Clen is very well known to rapidly down regulate your receptors, so it will lose it's effectiveness very quickly - this is why you build up a tolerance.

it also makes you shake! and this is part of the dosing structure as it assesses your individual tolerance.

The half life is 36 hours so taking it the 2on 2 off method means your body wont have time to recover so you will build u tolerance very quickly - after 2nd week it wont be working and you will wasting your time.

start with 20mcg or one tab on first day, then build up an extra tab a day to a max of 140mcg or seven tabs on the seventh day, then maintain this dosage all the way through the next week.

No need to taper off.

If you start getting really bad shakes then stop at that and back off one and maintain that through to the full 2 weeks - so if you shake badly on day 5, go back to 4 and maintain that dose for 2 weeks. increase and assess on your second cycle, though you could start off at 2 instead of one tab.

I think i used 5 tabs a day, was enough for me.

take them all at once. try not to look like an addict shaking all over... lol

[e8_pqck]

dbol for a first cycle is rubbish IMO. it's very androgenic, will bloat him up and he will lose 99% when he comes off.

As Blackie says, a straight forward enanthate and deca is always a good start - moderately androgenic good anabolic and a not harsh on your body.

Clen and Winnie - Not a great starter course either. Might aswell use some off the shelf fat burners if trying to lose weight then go on a test-e and deca course as your first. Clen and winnie is for BB dieting or hardening up, not really for people just losing weight.

[DusheR]

No Winnie is 17AA, its the exact same thing, that's why drinking it gives you the exact same effect. Hencewhy you have to shake it before you shoot. It is the only injectable that is 17AA and the only one worth drinking.

Tabs are usually 2-5Mg so NOT cost effective.

Ok, I always like to back up what I say either with my first hand experience or studies on the matter.

Heres a study on this subject.

Olson ME; Morck DW; Quinn KB [Find other articles with these Authors] Animal Health Unit and Gastrointestinal Sciences, University of Calgary, Alberta.

The objective of the study was to determine the influence of either oral or intramuscular administration of stanozolol on nitrogen retention in dogs by using a non-invasive 15N-<a style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=22&k=amino%20acid" onmouseover="window.status='amino acid'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">amino acid</a> tracer technique. Ten healthy, intact, adult male sled dogs received either stanozolol tablets, 2 mg/dog PO, q12h, for 25 days (Group 1, n = 5) or an intramuscular injection of 25 mg of stanozolol on Days 7, 14, 21, and 28 (Group 2, n = 5). A 15N amino acid (5.27 mmol) was infused intravenously into each dog on Day 0 (before stanozolol treatment) and on Day 31 (after stanozolol treatment). Urine was collected by catheterization from each animal 3 times daily for 3 consecutive days. The 15N-urea enrichment in urine was determined by high-resolution mass spectrometry and the total amount of urea in the urine was determined.

Both oral and injectable stanozolol resulted in significant (P < 0.05) increases in amino acid nitrogen retention compared to pretreatment values. Oral stanozolol increased nitrogen retention from 29.2 +/- 8.2% to 50.3 +/- 9.2%, while stanozolol injection increased nitrogen retention from 26.6 +/- 9.9% to 67.0 +/- 7.5%. The response to intramuscular administration was significantly greater than the response to the oral dosing regime. Stanozolol increases amino acid nitrogen retention in dogs, as has been previously observed in rats. This action of stanozolol may be beneficial in dogs under stress of surgical trauma and chronic disease.

Ok, so the oral dose was 28mg/week and the injected dose was 25mg/week. And the injected dose was far better at increasing nitrogen retention (67.0% versus 50.3%). This makes it about 33.2% better (roughly speaking), so if I extrapolate, it means to see the same effects as 25mg of injected stanozolol per week, you'd need to take about 38mg of it orally.

This isn't quite twice the injected dose and is, in fact, closer to 50% (52% or so actually). So if you assume the dog model is correct, or nearly so in other mammals like humans, you'd need about 50% more stanozolol orally than you would if you injected it. So if you used 50mg of injected Winstrol every other day, it would be a safe bet to assume 37.5mg of stanozolol used orally every day would provide a similar effect

Also the last tabs I had were 50mg and very effective in every sense.



Clen is very well known to rapidly down regulate your receptors, so it will lose it's effectiveness very quickly - this is why you build up a tolerance.

it also makes you shake! and this is part of the dosing structure as it assesses your individual tolerance.

The half life is 36 hours so taking it the 2on 2 off method means your body wont have time to recover so you will build u tolerance very quickly - after 2nd week it wont be working and you will wasting your time.

start with 20mcg or one tab on first day, then build up an extra tab a day to a max of 140mcg or seven tabs on the seventh day, then maintain this dosage all the way through the next week.

No need to taper off.

If you start getting really bad shakes then stop at that and back off one and maintain that through to the full 2 weeks - so if you shake badly on day 5, go back to 4 and maintain that dose for 2 weeks. increase and assess on your second cycle, though you could start off at 2 instead of one tab.

I think i used 5 tabs a day, was enough for me.

take them all at once. try not to look like an addict shaking all over... lol

Whether its to help cardiac patients, or as its intended asthma use, medically, clen is used daily for months

dbol for a first cycle is rubbish IMO. it's very androgenic, will bloat him up and he will lose 99% when he comes off.

As Blackie says, a straight forward enanthate and deca is always a good start - moderately androgenic good anabolic and a not harsh on your body.

Clen and Winnie - Not a great starter course either. Might aswell use some off the shelf fat burners if trying to lose weight then go on a test-e and deca course as your first. Clen and winnie is for BB dieting or hardening up, not really for people just losing weight.

I was saying ORAL cycle. He's already said he isn't sure about injecting. And no its not a rubbish cycle, he will lose more of his gain, but he would gain more, faster, in the first place.

Here's what I would suggest:

Week 1-4: 40mg dbol ed
Week 1-12: 500mg Test E
Week 1-13: 0.5mg-1mg Arimidex eod
Week 3-13: 1000iu HCG ew
Week 13-17: PCT

PCT:

Clomid: 100/100/50/50
Nolvadex 40/40/20/20 (personally Ive found 20mg to be fine throughout but gyno prone people sometimes need more)

[e8_pqck]

You posted a survey on dogs?

For start the adminstration intervals were completely different. The half lives would affect this alone. They also took the urine sample close to the final injection.

Clen taken to lose weight is well documented to rapidly build a tolerance. If you want to take it as a bronchial inhibitor then use advice from the doctor. If you want to take it lose weigh then choose the advice from a bodybuilder or a good source - do the research yourself.

Dont compare yourself to the medication for a dog.

[matt_vtr_15a]

As a future interest, (when I man up and have got my BF down) my best mate that is living with me is using lean gain 200 at the moment (Which I had to jab him with last night) and he keeps telling me to sack the winnie off and just jab.....

Made me think injecting is not soo bad, he recommends and has seen good gains but he is a completely different build to me... he is one of the lads that stays lean no matter what he eats etc and builds lean muscle rapidly and is always lowish bodyfat (never seen him without abs out whether he is bulking or cutting)

Anyway, he is on this stuff....

Lean gain 200 is basically this (per ml)....

test prop 60mg.
tren ace 60mg.
drostanalone prop(masteron) 80mg.

it's very affordable which is a good factor, and he doesn't see any real side effects...

Could it be a suitable first cycle? I wont be starting till at least the new year.. as I'm sticking to the clen for now and focussing on lowering my bodyfat until I'm happy with starting a cycle that suits me...

[e8_pqck]

As a future interest, (when I man up and have got my BF down) my best mate that is living with me is using lean gain 200 at the moment (Which I had to jab him with last night) and he keeps telling me to sack the winnie off and just jab.....

Made me think injecting is not soo bad, he recommends and has seen good gains but he is a completely different build to me... he is one of the lads that stays lean no matter what he eats etc and builds lean muscle rapidly and is always lowish bodyfat (never seen him without abs out whether he is bulking or cutting)

Anyway, he is on this stuff....

Lean gain 200 is basically this (per ml)....

test prop 60mg.
tren ace 60mg.
drostanalone prop(masteron) 80mg.

it's very affordable which is a good factor, and he doesn't see any real side effects...

Could it be a suitable first cycle? I wont be starting till at least the new year.. as I'm sticking to the clen for now and focussing on lowering my bodyfat until I'm happy with starting a cycle that suits me...

You would need to shoot that every day as they are fast acting, any acetate or prop Esther needs frequent injections.

[DusheR]

You posted a survey on dogs?

For start the adminstration intervals were completely different. The half lives would affect this alone. They also took the urine sample close to the final injection.

Clen taken to lose weight is well documented to rapidly build a tolerance. If you want to take it as a bronchial inhibitor then use advice from the doctor. If you want to take it lose weigh then choose the advice from a bodybuilder or a good source - do the research yourself.

Dont compare yourself to the medication for a dog.

Yes, whats your point? Most medicines you have are initially trialed on animals. Its not medication for a dog, it was winstol :wacko: Did you read it?

I have done the research, if you have bothered to read my other posts I said I used to run clen that way, but recently have changed my mind on that thinking. I don't believe everything I read. I will try the ed method next time and judge for myself.

As a future interest, (when I man up and have got my BF down) my best mate that is living with me is using lean gain 200 at the moment (Which I had to jab him with last night) and he keeps telling me to sack the winnie off and just jab.....

Made me think injecting is not soo bad, he recommends and has seen good gains but he is a completely different build to me... he is one of the lads that stays lean no matter what he eats etc and builds lean muscle rapidly and is always lowish bodyfat (never seen him without abs out whether he is bulking or cutting)

Anyway, he is on this stuff....

Lean gain 200 is basically this (per ml)....

test prop 60mg.
tren ace 60mg.
drostanalone prop(masteron) 80mg.

it's very affordable which is a good factor, and he doesn't see any real side effects...

Could it be a suitable first cycle? I wont be starting till at least the new year.. as I'm sticking to the clen for now and focussing on lowering my bodyfat until I'm happy with starting a cycle that suits me...

Id always say stay away from short esters for a first cycle if you have a fear of injections. Most need run eod or ed. I found eod to be sufficient. You will find a lot of people jabbing Mon, Wed, Fri just to keep things simple and get a routine.

Definitely don't jump straight onto tren for your first cycle, sides are a little harsh at mid-high doses.

[e8_pqck]

I can understand why they use animals for research and testing, but Winny has been around for years and millions of people have been using it for years so why doesnt someone get two guys and get one to take a shot and the other to take some tabs then piss in a bottle the next morning... Then repeat a week later the other way round and measure the difference. Why use dogs? why low dose the oral and expect the dose you made a week ago still be active? the study is irrelevant. oh, and i bet the winny was veterinary grade which is different again.

I will concede that injections will get a better result, but its not 50% - but yes, i'd expect there is a difference only down to the injectable not having to go travel the first pass through the liver, but it's marginal. Injectables do act slightly differently anyway as they leech from the injection site over hours or days so the hormone isn't fuly available, unlike the oral which is absorbed very quickly.

Besides, injecting is a pain - if there is an alternative for similar gain im up for it - especially if your in double figures a week. every site hurts after a while!

Anyway, have you bought any of that Dragon M1T? just found it the other day, seems to get a good review - hard to find these days so get some while you can! :)

[matt_vtr_15a]

Cheers again guys! Yeah my mate takes lean gain 3 x a week...

What the hell is that dragon stuff? Justvlooked on their site! Is that legal for them to sell ha?

[e8_pqck]

Cheers again guys! Yeah my mate takes lean gain 3 x a week...

What the hell is that dragon stuff? Justvlooked on their site! Is that legal for them to sell ha?

was for Dusher - dont you try M1T, its too strong for you. Makes DBol look like smarties.

[matt_vtr_15a]

was for Dusher - dont you try M1T, its too strong for you. Makes DBol look like smarties.

I was curiously looking, they have a range of supps was just curious as to how they can sell if soo strong?

[blackie_2k5]

if you wanna use winny tabs go for the 10's or 50's, 5's are just a pain and have to eat them likes smarties :p

if i get 10's i run 30/30 usually when i get up (say 6:30am..than 12 hours later)

if 50's ill split them and do 25/25

defo dont go dailly or EOD jabs for first time :p youll be shitting yourself till you get used to it haha

going back to the lean gain

all 3 of the steds in that mix CAN give some nasty sides, if you try that for your first cycle and you come out in really bad acne or another nasty side your not gonna be 100% which was the cause

worth researching all the stuff your gonna use fully, you may for instance have a receding hair line, or be prone to baldness (family trait) then tren and masteron are both well known for causing it and thining out your hair


just daft things like that

[matt_vtr_15a]

Winny is out of the question now...

Just bought some gear from that dragon nutrition for the near future!

Got some of the m dien and when i start that and if i'm happy with the results will buy some of the 6-BROMO for pct!

MDIEN http://dragonnutrition.co.uk/index.php/product/m-dien

6-bromo http://dragonnutrition.co.uk/index.php/product/6-bromo

Sick of dilly dallying around, i'm in the zone and want to stay there by any means necessary

[b0t13]

keep us updated on all the results with the dragon stuff, ive been researching recently and ur mindset isnt too far from mine,

also log any sides if you have any and what u did on cycle etc.. :D

[matt_vtr_15a]

keep us updated on all the results with the dragon stuff, ive been researching recently and ur mindset isnt too far from mine,

also log any sides if you have any and what u did on cycle etc.. :D

Will do mate! Royal mail have fucked up my order though!

I ordered mine from jw supplements (they supply all dragon nutrition products)

Ordered it last week, jw despatched it early next day and i got the tracking code in a confirmation e-mail..

Status is still 'accepted at pol' so jw are sending me more out so should recieve early next week if royal mail dont fuck up again!

Can't recommend jw enough from a supplier point of view though! Replied to my e-mails etc quickly and helpfully!

[b0t13]

ah thats good to hear,

you not considered the pro-sd stuff(superdrol)

only think thats stopping me ordering is the fact alot of places online suggest the higher colestrol steds/PH give mean long term heart problems

and my heart is one thing i wonna keep healthy as it doesnt take any prisoners, it either works or it doesnt lol

[scaff19]

Dunno if itS bee said but what's the pct for dont need it mate not on this
Winny is good but I prefer anavar as I Suffer with joint pain when doing winny for longer thank 2-3 weeks
Look on uk-muscle loads of tips there

[McGuire86]

This thread is just face palm

[Ryancoyle]

Test 400 for the win!!!

[b0t13]

lol i know my above post sounds n00bish but PH/steds are new to me so im reading everything!

im a self pronounced guru on all other supps/gymness but never looked into juice until recently

[matt_vtr_15a]

ah thats good to hear,

you not considered the pro-sd stuff(superdrol)

only think thats stopping me ordering is the fact alot of places online suggest the higher colestrol steds/PH give mean long term heart problems

and my heart is one thing i wonna keep healthy as it doesnt take any prisoners, it either works or it doesnt lol


I'll definately look into something more like that when I'm looking to bulk but mainly trying to cut down, I'm pretty carb starved at the moment so i'm really needing the help with my strength at the moment!

It's not an area I'm massively familiar with either, as Mcguire points out with his facepalm post..

EDIT: Replacement order arrived in the post this morning.. will see how the cycle goes from now on running 8mg ed.


Methyldienolone

Anabolic 1000
Androgenic 2-300
Estro activity-none
Progestational-activity moderate

5x more potent than d-bol
13x more potent than primo

Eli lilly and co developed it in 1960, however never released it, it wasn't seen again untill 2004 when it was introduced by gaspari.
Methyldienolone is a modified form of nandrolone, differed only by adition of a methyl group at c17-alpha for oral admin and introduction of double bond at carbon 9 which increases binding affinty and slows its metabolism.
The result is significantly more potent than its nandrolone base, and displays a much longer hallf life and lower affinity for serum binding proteins in comparison.

[McGuire86]

It's not an area I'm massively familiar with either, as Mcguire points out with his facepalm post..


That is why I would make sure I understand 100% everything there is to know about the substance I would be putting into my body. The sides, the effects, negative and positive, the ingredients, everything.

I don't want to sound like a cunt but to me it seems you're just diving into the deep end without armbands. But it's your body.

[matt_vtr_15a]

That is why I would make sure I understand 100% everything there is to know about the substance I would be putting into my body. The sides, the effects, negative and positive, the ingredients, everything.

I don't want to sound like a cunt but to me it seems you're just diving into the deep end without armbands. But it's your body.

I was expecting a bit more of a bashing if I'm honest so I took it with a pinch of salt mate, but I fully understand your point...

I was searching a few forums when the dragon nutrition brand got brought into conversation...

Just seemed like a much easier route for me, I can get it direct from source so I know what I'm actually taking.

I also looked for sides etc. (quite minor and rare apart from liver toxicity) involved with M-DIEN and willing to accept those sides with the cycle to achieve my goal..

My main concern is how liver toxic the stuff I'm taking is so I'm taking as many precautions as I can and also not going with too high a dosage (8mg) to start in comparison with some cycles of 16 and even 32mg's a day that i've seen on some forums.. (regular juicers though)

I'm also taking the pct suggested by the supplier after the cycle.

Hear mixed reviews about it shutting people down, however the pct is in place for that!

[McGuire86]

Wouldn't touch alcohol whilst on the cycle

[b0t13]

The dragon stuff seems recommended on ukm, so think product will be fine, but like maggy(lol) said I'd deffo read more into what it does,

What I really wonna know is what sortof real world gains they give, ie 100kg without then 130kg after a cycle and keeping most strength afterwards, that's the info I want to see aswell,

5x more potent than dbol! If thats true don't OD on the stuff as it's gnna be strong lol, the price is getting to a point nw where protein shakes are more expensive than juice and for results we all know which is better!

[e8_pqck]

That is why I would make sure I understand 100% everything there is to know about the substance I would be putting into my body. The sides, the effects, negative and positive, the ingredients, everything.

I don't want to sound like a cunt but to me it seems you're just diving into the deep end without armbands. But it's your body.

Show me a body builder who doesn't. They all talk like they're planning the next moon trip when really they're just banging it in like everyone does. Measuring dosages, monitoring sides and blood work, its all Bollocks and they run the gauntlet like everyone else at the end of the day.

The whole sport is dose related we all know that, so let's not throw stones at glass houses eh.

[matt_vtr_15a]

The dragon stuff seems recommended on ukm, so think product will be fine, but like maggy(lol) said I'd deffo read more into what it does,

What I really wonna know is what sortof real world gains they give, ie 100kg without then 130kg after a cycle and keeping most strength afterwards, that's the info I want to see aswell,

5x more potent than dbol! If thats true don't OD on the stuff as it's gnna be strong lol, the price is getting to a point nw where protein shakes are more expensive than juice and for results we all know which is better!

I was reading a cycle log on 8mg ed and at the end of a 4 week cycle he claimed to drop his bodyfat whilst holding on increasing his body mass by 7/8 lbs.

Bwfore and after cycle looked quite impressive!

Suggested to run 4weeks only however he claimed that he was showing no side effects and wanted to continue a couple more weeks as he felt it had more to offer!

But he was running it as a review for dragon so reportes no further than his 4 weeks!

It doean't aromatize with water so i wont bloat or be holding water, especially as i'm on keto


Wouldn't touch alcohol whilst on the cycle

I wont be, i'll be off the beer now until next summer, it's not something I miss really I can still go out down town and have a good time etc. and it's much easier for me to avoid trouble. Kind of a bad time with xmas and new year around the corner but I get 2 weeks off work so I can really go hard at the gym! Especially as it's 24 hour so it's not closed any days over the xmas period...

I can eat so much shit, drink soo much beer over the xmas period so i felt i really needed to get started now so I'm starting to see the result by xmas and carry on through instead of adding a few more pounds that i'll need to shred in 2013!

My first carb refeed from now will be xmas dinner so I'm not too much of an annoying prick!!

[matt_vtr_15a]

Will keep a bit of a log for those interested, as and when I notice any difference really...

Started from Monday 7.00am

Strict Keto Diet alongside 8mg ed of M-Dien...

I joined a different gym on Monday as well, it's 24 hours so much better for me as I can go before and after work without rushing.

Basically I will be training twice a day, in the mornings and evenings with sunday as my rest day.

I'm doing high intensity fasted cardio each morning at around 6.30 am

and then at 7.00pm I'm alternating each night between weight training and cardio which allows me to do a 3 day split. (This is just easier for my schedule)

I'm really looking to get a lot leaner as I've let my bodyfat increase over a summer of drink, partying and shit food, I'd love to gain a bit of lean mass which may be achievable on the keto diet but at worse case hold on to what I have left throughout the cycle and gain a nice shape.

I'm going to run this cycle for around 5- 6 weeks depending on how I'm feeling on the m-dien... I may also up my dosage to 12mg ed from week 3 onwards and then from week 5 stack it with 6-bromo for a further 6 weeks to cover my pct and continue to cut whilst still on keto...

http://dragonnutrition.co.uk/index.php/product/6-bromo

Soo..

Wednesday 5th December:

I am now in a state of ketosis, not feeling any effects of m-dien at all yet however I wouldn't expect to until next week...

I'm soo hungry but fortunately keto will allow me to get away with this!

Weighed in last night at 15 stone 8. I need to try and get my bodyfat measure but I'd take a guess at mid to high teens, unfortunately I didn't have chance to weigh myself on Monday but the real effects should start from now as I am now in ketosis...

Will keep posted.

[Giraffe]

How tall are you?

[matt_vtr_15a]

How tall are you?

6 foot 2

[b0t13]

will be keeping my eye on this thread :D

[matt_vtr_15a]

Starting to get some decent pumps now, even with cardio it's pumping my legs up which is a bit of a pain but I was expecting it, so have some taurine ready to supplement if it gets unbearable...

I have started stacking the m-dien with clen as of this morning!!

Weighed myself and I have shedded 7lbs since weighing myself on wednesday, I expect to shed at least another 3lbs between now and wednesday which will give me an idea of the losses in a weekly period... (mostly water)

(I will weigh myself after the evening gym session, due to the weight differences between the morning and afternoon)

The real gains and losses will be seen from wednesday onwards really!!

Can't report any sides except headaches, which is probably due to the amount of exercise and lack of carbs...

Should see the real effects of the m-dien now and with the clen thrown in see how much bodyfat I can strip!!

[b0t13]

get before and after pics aswell!, none gay way obv..

[matt_vtr_15a]

Update

Sat at work, shaking like a shitting dog and all I can think about is the gym and I went this morning...

Motivation is higher than ever, minor strength gains but they are increasing slowly but surely...

Clen seems to have kicked in, headaches and shakes but I can put up with that

Will get some pics before after bolt :y:

[Yamaha318]

Hows it going? Any real sides? and any real losses?

[e8_pqck]

If your shaking bad then that's your max dose, don't take more, listen to the shakes!

[matt_vtr_15a]

Hows it going? Any real sides? and any real losses?

Nothing major at all really in terms of sides, all very bearable... just shakes and occasional headache!!

I seem to be gaining a bit of size in the arms which I wasn't expecting, I just expected to keep what I had whilst stripping the fat so i'm happy with that!

Very noticeable strength gains, and a bit longer before i fatigue!!

If your shaking bad then that's your max dose, don't take more, listen to the shakes!

Yeah I popped one to many the other day and it was uncontrollable I looked like I was going cold turkey!!

I've figured out my limit on the clen and will stick to that for now...

Going to up my dosage slightly on the m-dien as I'm now in the third week!!

Very happy soo far, my bodyfat is going down but my overall mass hasn't dropped as much as I expected... as long as I am leaning up I don't mind though!!

[matt_vtr_15a]

My Gym is closed until Wednesday night for refurbishment.

Therefore doing a lot of kettlebell full body workouts at the moment..

My dog got putdown last night, honestly since this I've been the angriest human being in the world all last night and today... going to try and turn this into a positive and focus it on my training...

[burgin2011]

plenty of milk thistle will sort ya out pal , the best cycle i ever did was sus 250 and cyp , tryed the test prop its good stuff but its every other day and hate pinning!! make sure you do the pct :) thats why i stopped , shakes and heart pains never touched gear again shit me up tbf its all about you diet and daily intake you get that right and good stuff starts happening fast :) , i just use protein shakes and monohydrate , together and train 4 times a week still a decent size tbf.

[matt_vtr_15a]

getting terrible sweats, even when it's freezing cold in a morning I am commuting to work in just a shirt and end up carrying my coat as I just seem to get hot and bothered with any additional clothes on...

Sweating A LOT during workouts which I don't particularly mind but just annoying for day to day with work...

Finish work tommorow for two weeks so really going to up the duration of my workouts and nail it from friday onwards!!

Going to treat myself to a christmas dinner with my best mates family, I just know I'm going to get hot as fuck though if I'm sat in a warm house with a hot dinner in front of me....

My heating at home is off at the minute as i've been getting so hot and bothered at night, I've been likened to a radiator...

[Yates]

My heating at home is off at the minute as i've been getting so hot and bothered at night, I've been likened to a radiator...

white and metal?

[matt_vtr_15a]

She must of meant water heater... (a bronze tank)

I kid..

Seriously though night sweats are horrible at the minute sleeping with heating off and windows open!

My strength and stamina is up a little more.. quite impressed saying it's meant to be a cut i've noticed some lean gains if i'm honest!

[matt_vtr_15a]

Not been the gym due to closure over Christmas! So done some home kettlebell routines and jogging!

My weight is pretty much the same, seeing lean gains still and reduction in bodyfat!

I'm currently off the clen now for a couple of weeks to give my receptors a break!

As of today i'm running 12mg of m-dien and 150mg of 6-bromo (test booster)

Going to use all of this m-dien (couple more weeks) and keep running the 6bromo (test booster) at 150mg and then taper down and start pct as my libido is now totally gone!

I'm hoping the test booster may help if i don't abbuse it!

Going to run 6 bromo at :

3 weeks (150mg ed)
2 weeks (100mg ed)
9 days (50mg ed)

Once i've had a little break i'm going to run some form of tren cycle undecided on oral or injection!

Still maintaining the cutting goal! But gi'm maintaining my mass and losing bodyfat so i'm happy with that!

Off to the gym now!

[burgin2011]

jogging is the worst thing in the world if wanting to gain size! how many differnt kind of gear you taking!! take your time onit if you have never run cycles before because it will fuck you up seriously quick , biggest mistake of my life being on that stuff!

[matt_vtr_15a]

jogging is the worst thing in the world if wanting to gain size! how many differnt kind of gear you taking!! take your time onit if you have never run cycles before because it will fuck you up seriously quick , biggest mistake of my life being on that stuff!

I don't jog frequently, as said it was due to Gym closure over Christmas.. more to keep myself motivated until I got back into my normal routine.

Also size wasn't the main factor, I aim to protect my muscle mass and wouldn't mind building a little whilst I reduce my overall bodyfat.


Anyway...

New Routine is as follows...

Monday: Chest/Biceps
4 sets of Incline Dumbbell Press, 8-10 reps
3 sets of Bench Press, 8-10 reps
3 sets of Incline Flies, 8-10 reps
3 sets of Chest Dips until failure
3 sets of Barbell Curls, 8-10 reps
3 sets of Preacher Curls, 8-10 reps, then drop the weight to half and go till failure.

Tuesday: Legs/Calves
4 sets of Squats 8-10 reps
3 sets of Lunges 8-10 reps
3 sets of Leg Press 8-10 reps
3 sets of Leg Extensions till failure
3 sets of Leg Curls 8-10 reps


Wednesday: Back
3 sets of Lat Pulldowns 8-10 reps
4 sets of Deadlifts 8-10 reps
3 sets of Bent Over Rows 8-10 reps
3 sets of Dumbell Rows 8-10 reps
3 sets of Hyperextensions 8-10 reps

Thursday: Shoulders/Triceps
4 sets of Shoulder Press, alternate with Barbell & Dumbell every week 8-10 reps
3 sets of Upright Rows supersetted with Lateral Raises 8-10 reps
3 sets of front raises 8-10 reps
3 sets of Lying Rear Delt Raises 8-10 reps
3 sets of Close-Grip Bench Press 8-10 reps
4 sets of Pulldowns 8-10 reps
3 sets of Skullcrushers 8-10 reps

Saturday: Full Body (Once every 2 weeks)
3 sets of Deadlifts 8-10 reps
3 sets of Squats 8-10 reps
3 sets of Clean and Jerk 8-10 reps
3 sets of Weighted Pull ups 8-10 reps

After each weights session I will do around 45mins of low intensity cardio, except on days I train legs as I can barely walk with the pumps I get nevermind cardio workouts.

I'm just unsure when is best to take my PWO shake, should I go an drink it after my workout but before cardio or after my workout and cardio?

I can't think what would be best to do, for fat loss i'd imagine after cardio but will this neglect my muscles with the fuel they can utilise much better immediately after a workout?

[McGuire86]

Seems abit too much volume. And personally I wouldn't lift more than 2 days in a row. You might risk over training.

[matt_vtr_15a]

Seems abit too much volume. And personally I wouldn't lift more than 2 days in a row. You might risk over training.

I do totally see your point. I just feel as though I'm convincing myself I should be doing more that's my only problem, but as you say maybe too much.

What do you think If I did the same routine however ditch the full body routine for now and move shoulders and tri's to Friday?

Gives me sufficient rest periods, see how I get on and maybe bring the full body routine back into the equation at a later date.

[McGuire86]

Try a 4 day split with weights and the other days focus on cardio, more is not better ;)

[Giraffe]

On legs/calves day, I don't see any exercise that would hit your calves? That's about the only input I have as I've never trained for volume and stuff like that really.

[matt_vtr_15a]

On legs/calves day, I don't see any exercise that would hit your calves? That's about the only input I have as I've never trained for volume and stuff like that really.

Well noticed!

I didn't put any down, mainly because the majority will be machine exercises and they have some new machines in which I'm also yet to explore!!

Point noted Mcguire will consider any helpful comments :y:

[McGuire86]

Also, put triceps with chest. And if you do go for the 4 day split, biceps with back.

[matt_vtr_15a]

Also, put triceps with chest. And if you do go for the 4 day split, biceps with back.

I must admit i normally train chest and tri's / shoulders and bi's..

Found this online so I appreciate the comments... will tweak !

[matt_vtr_15a]

Clen has been dropped from this cycle... and I need to have a few days rest.

Had chest and back pains yesterday, cut a long story short my blood pressure was scary high and I had to have it lowered...

Also had quite a scare that I may of had a heart defect, so had to have an x-ray.

So a few days rest are in order, getting rid of the clen. Will carry on with the steroid cycle once I'm feeling better.

[Giraffe]

Why don't you just drop it all and just put the effort in and have patience? Not worth your health.

[McGuire86]

Fuck sake man lol. I was going to say are you monitoring your BP but thought you would be :panic:

Should get one of these http://www.firstaidwarehouse.co.uk/xpp-a_d_ua_767_plus_automatic_blood_pressure_monitor.h tml

What was it reading BTW ?

[matt_vtr_15a]

Why don't you just drop it all and just put the effort in and have patience? Not worth your health.

True. I'm dropping everything until I get my blood pressure back down to something a bit safer as it's still higher than it should be. Will begin to monitor myself and keep a better eye on my health!

Fuck sake man lol. I was going to say are you monitoring your BP but thought you would be :panic:

Should get one of these http://www.firstaidwarehouse.co.uk/xpp-a_d_ua_767_plus_automatic_blood_pressure_monitor.h tml

What was it reading BTW ?

I will invest, cheers mate :y:

I stupidly ignore pain, or deal with it, but I was convinced/forced to go as I was literally crippled at work... Felt as though I'd been stabbed thru my chest and straight thru my spine... . First time I've been doctors/hospital in probably 8 years.

I was reading around 190/90.. but they lowered it back down to a safer pressure over the course of a few hours with some anti-hypertensive drugs.

Definitely made me realize not to take my body for granted and shovel shit loads of chems in my system.

Makes you think you could be a statistic just by trying to cut corners.

[blackie_2k5]

Never been a fan of clen and drugs that speed you up for weight loss, amount of pressure they put on yiur heart is mental

[Yamaha318]

Im starting a clen course next week, it sounds like you pushed yourself abit far with to many drugs in your system.

Get off the roids and start a clean clen cycle with healthy diet, loose the weight you wanted to before bulking, You cant do it all at once

[DusheR]

Did you get the results back on your heart?

If your hearts not 100%, natty training is your only option unfortunately. Heart and kidneys, two organs not to be fucked with.

Maybe look into peptides. Easy to purchase, injected subQ (like insulin) so pretty much painless. Strength, size and fatloss.

[matt_vtr_15a]

Well my m-dien cycle is over tommorow anyway, must admit I'm quite impressed!!

I've lost about 3 inch from my waist (had to buy new jeans) My shirts are A LOT tighter around the shoulders and arms (too tight infact) and I've shedded quite a bit of fat!!

Going to continue running 6-bromo now as my PCT...

Apart from the scare (my own fault) I've been very impressed!!

I'll try get some pics up and get a final result on my bodyfat!!


I honestly just think it was the clen that was destroying my blood pressure levels.

From the tests my heart seems fine now my blood pressure has lowered :y:

Will see what cycle best suits me to gain some serious mass, quite addicted to getting that bit more muscle on me and leaning up... and I'm finding it soo much easier to reduce my bodyfat in the process...

Once PCT is complete and I've had a suitable break, I will start a bit of a stronger cycle....

I've experienced no sides from this cycle except loss of libido and aggression... I just think I react badly to clen and it was just all too much at the same time.... one or the other....

I will be getting blood tests done prior to the next cycle and depending on the outcome I'd definately consider tren and test!

Will have to see what state I am in :y:

Soo very tempted to do a tren cycle but I will definately be getting blood tests done prior to this...

Also dusher I'm not to aware of peptides I will have to do a bit of research on it, jabbing isn't something that bothers me a great deal now.. since jabbing one of my friends for the past few week..

[matt_vtr_15a]

Sorry for poor quality...

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy295/matt_vtr_15/IMG_20130110_191836.jpg

Gives an idea od my current physique... happy wih lean gains n definately fat loss!

I slacked off a little around xmas and didn't maintain my diet around then but since the newcyear been back in the zone with dietcand training... minus the brief hiccup!

Credit to dragon! Will definately invest in more of there supps...

Aiming to continue my lean gains and get some nice definition now!

M-dien is done with so running my pct... should keep pretty much all my gains as there is no water retention!

Looking forward to starting a tren and test cycle (i'm very surecthis is the cycle for me)...lean bulking and then really drop my carbs and hit keto prior to summer, and get down to around 8% bodyfat to really get some nice definition

[lwigmore]

Try and get a proper pic if possible?

Looks like your shoulders are way out of proportion but thats probably due to the shit pic :y:

[Giraffe]

Try and get a proper pic if possible?

Looks like your shoulders are way out of proportion but thats probably due to the shit pic :y:

Think it's the blur either side, it's like seeing double

[lwigmore]

Think it's the blur either side, it's like seeing double

Yeah thats probably it, lighting in the room doesnt help either lol

[matt_vtr_15a]

Got a couple of others I'll try get them up tonight, my photobucket was being a ratbag trying to get them onto the forum from my phone! Looking at it on a computer monitor it looks dreadful, was more in proportion for some reason on my phone!

I'll get some better up ASAP...

Seen a great transformation though, increase in muscle mass, drop in bodyfat etc. so it definately hit the targets I set.. And I've had a lot of comments from friends, family and work colleagues about looking a lot bigger and leaner etc.

Going to get my blood pressure and some tests done soon to see how I am as I'm getting particularly pestered by a nurse to do so to see if I have stabilised a bit.

Once I resume a normal blood pressure I am going to give a lean gains cycle a try as I need to get in the shape of my life for ibiza this summer with the lads. Especially as most of them are shredded.

Lean Gains Cycle

Methastadrol & Tren-Dione...

http://www.jwsupplements.co.uk/Methastadrol.html

http://www.jwsupplements.co.uk/TrenDione.html

[P90PTS]

Please tell me for your next 'cycle' you will just run an AAS as opposed to a clone?

[McGuire86]

The thing is you don't know weather it was the clen or the dragon M1T causing you to have high blood pressure. You should of done one before the other so you can identify which one gives you whatever side effects.

I think you should go back to your GP, get bloods done and ask to be referred to a cardiologist. Take him the list of ingredients of what you were taking and get his opinion.

The thing about blood pressure, it's not like you liver - it will return to normal after abuse and you should be ok. With blood pressure imagine a hose flowing with water, each time the end is blocked the water puts pressure onto the plastic making it weaker and causing it to stretch and giving it permanent damage. As you get older your BP will naturally raise anyway and your blood vessels and artery's will become weaker - like anything in the human body, nothing lasts forever.

So if you gave it stress whilst you were young and stronger, the risk factor of having heart problems, stroke, heart attack etc increase alot more at a later age. As said BP isn't to be fucked with.

[matt_vtr_15a]

The thing is you don't know weather it was the clen or the dragon M1T causing you to have high blood pressure. You should of done one before the other so you can identify which one gives you whatever side effects.

I think you should go back to your GP, get bloods done and ask to be referred to a cardiologist. Take him the list of ingredients of what you were taking and get his opinion.

The thing about blood pressure, it's not like you liver - it will return to normal after abuse and you should be ok. With blood pressure imagine a hose flowing with water, each time the end is blocked the water puts pressure onto the plastic making it weaker and causing it to stretch and giving it permanent damage. As you get older your BP will naturally raise anyway and your blood vessels and artery's will become weaker - like anything in the human body, nothing lasts forever.

So if you gave it stress whilst you were young and stronger, the risk factor of having heart problems, stroke, heart attack etc increase alot more at a later age. As said BP isn't to be fucked with.


I definately believe it was the clen, I had a lot of chest and back pains on that stuff but since cutting it out this has dissapeared... as well as leg and back cramps quite often!!

Totally get what you are saying though :y:

As opposed to doing an AAS cycle instead of a clone, I will eventually... but will do one more pro hormone cycle first...

The tren-dione converts directly to trenbolone and I have heard a lot of good things about s-drol... I can run a one month cycle for less than £60 then have a 3 months off and then if i'm not pushing my look get a tren and test cycle in before the end of july fresh for ibiza...

[Giraffe]

Seems a bit much just to look good on a holiday mate... In terms of both risk and cost and time. Just my onion though.

EDIT: In terms of both three things... what a dick.

[matt_vtr_15a]

Seems a bit much just to look good on a holiday mate... In terms of both risk and cost and time. Just my onion though.

I'll see how it goes, blood pressure is something that I will closely monitor from now though.. Ordered a blood pressure monitor than easily slides into my gym bag so I can have a quick check before and after workouts etc.


I think one more cycle would be enough for ibiza if i'm honest... I'm getting to the point I'm happy with my body composition but I'm never truly satisfied and always want more... i've always been the same for everything in life if i'm honest...

Diet is crazy strict again now... fats and proteins through the day and a high carb shake and balanced meal post workout....

Makes me really look forward to my sessions as it feels like a treat when I get some carbs back in my body...

I much prefer carb cycling as opposed to a full on keto diet though, it seems to allow me to build muscle and drop fat much easier to...

[McGuire86]

Seems to me you've already made your mind up then, health risks put aside lol.

It's your choice at the end of the day, but something like steroids I would want to be 100% on how my body would handle it. That's probably the main reason I've put it off the past 5 years of training

[P90PTS]

I can run a one month cycle for less than £60

I can run an 8 week cycle of various orals for £60 and get better gains than what I would running a PH...

[blackie_2k5]

I'll see how it goes, blood pressure is something that I will closely monitor from now though.. Ordered a blood pressure monitor than easily slides into my gym bag so I can have a quick check before and after workouts etc.


I think one more cycle would be enough for ibiza if i'm honest... I'm getting to the point I'm happy with my body composition but I'm never truly satisfied and always want more... i've always been the same for everything in life if i'm honest...

Diet is crazy strict again now... fats and proteins through the day and a high carb shake and balanced meal post workout....

Makes me really look forward to my sessions as it feels like a treat when I get some carbs back in my body...

I much prefer carb cycling as opposed to a full on keto diet though, it seems to allow me to build muscle and drop fat much easier to...


youll be on AAS in no time with that attitude ;)

sounds like youve got the bug already

[e8_pqck]

The thing is you don't know weather it was the clen or the dragon M1T causing you to have high blood pressure. You should of done one before the other so you can identify which one gives you whatever side effects.

I think you should go back to your GP, get bloods done and ask to be referred to a cardiologist. Take him the list of ingredients of what you were taking and get his opinion.

The thing about blood pressure, it's not like you liver - it will return to normal after abuse and you should be ok. With blood pressure imagine a hose flowing with water, each time the end is blocked the water puts pressure onto the plastic making it weaker and causing it to stretch and giving it permanent damage. As you get older your BP will naturally raise anyway and your blood vessels and artery's will become weaker - like anything in the human body, nothing lasts forever.

So if you gave it stress whilst you were young and stronger, the risk factor of having heart problems, stroke, heart attack etc increase alot more at a later age. As said BP isn't to be fucked with.

Just be careful what you tell your doctor. Medical in confidence it's rubbish, if you go for jobs in future with company doctors who access your records you will be down as a drug user so just have a think about what you tell them.

Fair enough if your health is at risk but just think of other implications.

[matt_vtr_15a]

youll be on AAS in no time with that attitude ;)

sounds like youve got the bug already

Well going to give superdrol and tren a whirl.. I will recieve tommorow along with a blood pressure monitior to keep a close eye on myself.

SD:

20/20/30/30 ed (The final week may be 40mg ed depending on sides etc.)

Tren

100/100/125/125



I know I'm probably gonna get some hate for this, with it being a fairly strong cycle and me being a bet of a noob but it's my body, i'm confident I can deal with it and I'm working to a goal that's only 6 months away.

I don't mind criticism but try and keep it constructive.

Will be eating really clean however above maintenance but only by around 500cal...

Would expect to see some decent gains and then I will get back onto carb cycling which has really been working for me...

[LWS_71]

I'd be a bit worried about getting back on this sort of stuff so soon after your last cycle. Its your body though and aslong as you have the all clear in regards to your health then that's fine.

What are your current stats?

[Chris_Mcfc]

Watch out for gyno with the sd.

[Giraffe]

Even if you're having mood swings though mate, might be best to get it out on here so at least you can read back and see what sort of mood you were in at the time. If it's part and parcel of the cycle, then best get it all down!

[matt_vtr_15a]

Right, here are some pictures that I have to hand whilst at work,quality is shit after previewing but they all i have to hand at work and I really need to update this now to motivate myself to keep this log going..

I've got some really good ones on my phone with good lighting and which shows more of my development from about 4 weeks ago until now and are not (poser shots as such like these are...(taken from instagram) so they will get put up ASAP, but my upper body has grown significantly, never been very vascular but during workouts my arms get such a pump it's incredible and veins pop out EVERYWHERE...

This was first week of the tren/m-drol cycle...

http://s12.postimage.org/eqcl7hg8t/97a0d6286c5511e294d322000a1f8c09_5.jpg

This was last week....

http://s12.postimage.org/9603wuhdp/56c91bc66d5c11e2a67a22000a9f3cad_6.jpg

And this was this week, traps seem to have boomed...

http://s12.postimage.org/ur56kge4d/8a8a52346e1711e2a94622000a1fbd9f_6.jpg

Very happy with the results, I must say the m-dien shredded me up and gave me that dry feeling... Since starting the tren and m-drol I feel a big increase in size and strength but feel lean with it....

I am about half way thru my month cycle on tren and methastadrol (superdrol clone).. I need to weigh myself again but I have packed about another 6lbs of lean mass on in the last week and a half and don't seem to be retaining a great deal of water according to the body composition monitor I have...

So just for anybody interested in the cycle I'll give a brief experience which I've had soo far....

No spots, no hair loss, no gyno (not even sore nips)

I have however experienced full loss of sex drive, mood swings, bit of sickness feeling and that's about it really. I do feel depressed at times but I can make myself snap out of this.. My blood pressure seems to be on the safer side of dangerous for now and I feel I have stabilised a bit so I'm happy with that...

I saw my family a couple of days ago for the first time in about 3 weeks due to my Grandads death and they all commented on how much bigger I have got, my dad was very dubious and basically asked that I be careful with what I'm doing to myself...

My friends are all commenting on how much bigger I have got that knows me and what gear I've been on so the changes havn't been to subtle... and I'm only half way thru....

I plan on keeping as much of my gains as possible and then taking my diet to the next level and amending my workouts to really shred up.

As said I will get some good photos on asap just a matter of transferring them from my phone onto the forum.. but at least I've updated for now...

Cheers...

[Yamaha318]

Good to hear its going well matt! Keep up the good work

[matt_vtr_15a]

Good to hear its going well matt! Keep up the good work

cheers mate, addicted to working out at the moment... even walking instead of driving which is a steady paced cardio of around 3miles a day as i do very little cardio in the gym at the moment until after this cycle anyway...

[Giraffe]

Bicep looks huge in the first picture :|

Front delts look to be a lot bigger as well.

[matt_vtr_15a]

Bicep looks huge in the first picture :|

Front delts look to be a lot bigger as well.

The size of my biceps have gone stupid,

Work shirts no longer fit properly around the shoulders and tops of my arms...


Even in baggy jumpers or hoodies that I wear to commute to the gym are tight around my arms like crazy tight around my upper half and then baggy from below chest down!

Had to buy numerous new clothes for the gym as I literally ripped a shirt off myself trying to take it off in the changing rooms and they all chafe now when training upper body

Got some stretchmarks coming thru pretty prominent though so I've got some bio oil to try and reduce this now...

[Giraffe]

The size of my biceps have gone stupid,

Work shirts no longer fit properly around the shoulders and tops of my arms...


Even in baggy jumpers or hoodies that I wear to commute to the gym are tight around my arms like crazy tight around my upper half and then baggy from below chest down!

Had to buy numerous new clothes for the gym as I literally ripped a shirt off myself trying to take it off in the changing rooms and they all chafe now when training upper body

Got some stretchmarks coming thru pretty prominent though so I've got some bio oil to try and reduce this now...

Fuck that, wear your stretch marks with pride! Means you're growing, badge of honour and all that shit

[matt_vtr_15a]

Fuck that, wear your stretch marks with pride! Means you're growing, badge of honour and all that shit

For some reason they are a lot more noticeable on my left bicep and stretching over to my chest...

should fade a bit off cycle shall see... Not to keen on the look of them that's all but nothing major in the scheme of things :y:

[Brettles1986]

My question is, once you are off all the "gear" (I call it gear as I have no idea what it actually is btw, tis not me calling you a roid head), Will you have to work out harder to maintain your physique or will your normal workout be enough to maintain it?

[matt_vtr_15a]

My question is, once you are off all the "gear" (I call it gear as I have no idea what it actually is btw, tis not me calling you a roid head), Will you have to work out harder to maintain your physique or will your normal workout be enough to maintain it?

I aim to keep as much of the gains I have made as possible.

I will keep my workouts the same once I'm off cycle but I will aim to lift heavier than I do now but drop my reps... (Currently doing 8 reps per set will drop this to 5-6 reps per set and increase weight)

My appetite is crazy at the moment, I could eat constantly thru the day! But once I'm off cycle my appetite will no doubt reduce so I'll have to make sure I'm eating a sufficient amount throughout the day and training hard and heavy to try and hold on to as much of my gains as possible...

If I train, eat right and carry out my pct correctly I should keep the majority i'd hope :y:

[Yamaha318]

Aha good to hear, bio oil will literally do fuck all on the stretch marks tbh

What you using for pct?

[Yates]

Made your hair grow mate

[matt_vtr_15a]

Aha good to hear, bio oil will literally do fuck all on the stretch marks tbh

What you using for pct?

Got some Nolva for pct mate!


Thanks soo much Matt hah... I have to get my haircut every two-three weeks.. does my head in fortunately its not growing any faster

[McGuire86]

Mate, you need progress pictures of your physique - not your hair lol

[matt_vtr_15a]

Mate, you need progress pictures of your physique - not your hair lol

Haha...

As said on mobile for the proper pics im tryna get em up

[matt_vtr_15a]

I have a lot of transformation photos that my friend has been taking over a period of the last 3-4 months.... Quite a change in my body, I will get these up as and when I can as they are on his camera and are full body shots of back, side and front view....much better than ones I have been able to take myself with my phone...

Fuck me I looked bad 3-4months ago... I also realised I looked more like a water balloon than containing muscle and The SD cycle which i thought i wasn't holding water I clearly was....

Anyway... couple of pics about as good as I can manage with the one bathroom mirror in my house...

Over the last 2-3month my waist has dropped around 4 inch, body fat is down by 9-10% and my lean mass has gone up however i can't be sure how much i have gained in terms of lean mass as i have been cutting and dropped weight a bit.. although my percentage has gone up around 4-5%...

[Brettles1986]

I have a lot of transformation photos that my friend has been taking over a period of the last 3-4 months.... Quite a change in my body

Penis shrunk?

[matt_vtr_15a]

Still got some way to go as I want to get down to around 7/8% bodyfat and then I will lean bulk to 10% and cut back down etc. i want to stay lean now and grow slowly.

Waist has dropped to 32 inch

Biceps are at 16.5inch (pumped)

Strongest feature is my back i'd say, got some serious v going on as my lats are pretty juicy when i spread them...

And you will be glad to know my penis is no smaller than it was before, so pepper your angus and get ready brett


http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy295/matt_vtr_15/IMG_20130509_233114.jpg

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy295/matt_vtr_15/IMG_20130527_200803.jpg

Shit pic from last week but to give an idea of frame I guess.... 6 foot 2 at just under 16 stone

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy295/matt_vtr_15/IMG_20130525_214515.jpg

[DusheR]

You have the worse progress pics in the world ha. You need to show your body in the pics. Do some of the mandatory bodybuilding poses or something.

...not in a lift listening to music ha

[MrHouston]

1st pic looks like you have a good arm! But full pics needed. Just get the ones you send to the ladies ;)

[matt_vtr_15a]

You have the worse progress pics in the world ha. You need to show your body in the pics. Do some of the mandatory bodybuilding poses or something.

...not in a lift listening to music ha

I do have them but obviously i can't take them myself as the only camera i have is my phone.

My mate has both our progress pics on his camera as we are both doing a transformation challenge! It finishes in a week or so, so he will have uploaded them for submission by that point and i will have access to them.

[Yates]

Easily take pics by yourself haha you are just a douche bag!

[Brettles1986]

I do have them but obviously i can't take them myself as the only camera i have is my phone.

My mate has both our progress pics on his camera as we are both doing a transformation challenge! It finishes in a week or so, so he will have uploaded them for submission by that point and i will have access to them.

Gay!

and then an elaborate attempt to cover it up later on with a 'transformation challenge' ;)