US School Shooting

[mlawlan69]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20730717

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/tv/bbc_news24/watchlive

completely gob smacked, 18 children dead apparently, 27 in total.

why always in America do these school shootings happen?

[Dave_P]

why always in America do these school shootings happen?

Because dumb fucks can buy guns...

[W103_A5H]

Because dumb fucks can buy guns...

^^^ This.

They wonder why gun crime is so high yet they let people buy guns. Ok I get people may worry about there own safety etc but we don't have guns over here and it isn't anywhere near as bad as it is over in the states.

[jonathon5]

NRA will be out in force spouting shite as normal saying all teachers should be armed

[dave_1]

Went over to America last year and couldnt believe how easy it was to find a place that sold guns. One of them was in a shopping mall, were as over here you hardly ever see gun smiths

[Nates-VTR]

Shocking! Just watching it now... Heard something about a stabbing in china also in a school 20 or so students

[AXracing]

In the US guns are common place but you have these do gooders that have made it illegal to have guns in school. So most shooting happen there as no one can shoot back. This is always the problem with "gun free zones" if you where a nutter going to kill lots of people where would you go? It would be a "gun free zone" so they cant shoot back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGGmFj9282Q

I recall not that long ago in one school one of the older students had his handgun legally in his car. When a nutter came killing everyone the student ran out to his car to get his gun then came back to stop the nutter. After this happened there was protest at most of places of education where students and teachers alike carried empty gun holsters to show how guns can save lives. If trained teachers, security or even trained older students could carry guns it would make a story like above impossible. ( edit when i say older students im not talking 5 to 10 year olds like in the school above. Rather late teens early twenties )

Laws that disarm people sadly only target the law abiding people. Just look at UK handgun crime and you will see this glaring at you. The handgun ban did not reduce handgun crime. It did not it even slow its increase.

[D1zzyman]

not again i think its getting ridiculous now, they should control their gun policy. why children though!

[AXracing]

They wonder why gun crime is so high yet they let people buy guns. Ok I get people may worry about there own safety etc but we don't have guns over here and it isn't anywhere near as bad as it is over in the states.

You say this but many states in the US actually have fewer people killed in such multiple murders then there are here in the UK. For example in the past 7 years Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Iowa, Wymoning, Idaho, New Mexico, Arkansas, West Virginia, Vermonth, New Hampshire and Maine have all had fewer.

[mlawlan69]

But what is going through peoples minds to consider walking in to a primary school and killing young children.

It's just disgraceful it really is, shame gunmans dead too, deserved torturing.

[matt_vtr_15a]

As said really guns are so easily accessible!

I completely agree with axracing on this one!

Gun free zones create an issje for mental cowards that prey on the helpless with an armed weapon! It's sickening!

[Jazz]

I like visiting America, I go to Miami quite often and it is simply amazing every time.

BUT those dumb-hick-redneck-hillbillies cannot and will not shake off their sad obsession of firearms, and their passion will prove to be their curse as more and more incidents like this will happily continue.

Their constitutional right to "bare arms" is the biggest pile of BS I have ever heard.

[Saxoladlesta]

It all seems to be "adults" between 18-25 who commit these types of crimes in the US. Simple answer is to stop selling guns to young adults,make them wait till they're 25+

[Jazz]

It all seems to be "adults" between 18-25 who commit these types of crimes in the US. Simple answer is to stop selling guns to young adults,make them wait till they're 25+

Or even better, ban them outright.

Or use a similar system to what we have here, strict licencing to have one and very strict regulations about what you are/are not allowed to keep and how you use it.

[AXracing]

Or even better, ban them outright.

Or use a similar system to what we have here, strict licencing to have one and very strict regulations about what you are/are not allowed to keep and how you use it.

But it does not work here. Our handgun ban failed outright ( before band 279 reported injuries that year from handguns ten years after the ban that year 1024 reported injures ). Many parts of the US are safer then here and many places around the worlds with more guns then us are very safe. The assumption that the guns are the problem is very much mistaken. Education and poverty are far greater factors on over all gun crime statistics. People think of guns and get frighted and think they must be to blame. But you could just as easily use a car as a weapon if you liked. Or as is proven time and time again in the UK there are many other ways to kill someone if you so wished.

[Jazz]

But it does not work here. Our handgun ban failed outright. Many parts of the US are safer then here and many places around the worlds with more guns then us are very safe. The assumption that the guns are the problem is very much mistaken. Education and poverty are far greater factors on over all gun crime statistics. People think of guns and get frighted and think they must be to blame. But you could just as easily use a car as a weapon if you liked. Or as is proven time and time again in the UK there are many other ways to kill someone if you so wished.

Disagree completely.

See this is the kind of irrational justification the Americans have been using for years. Look at the results, 18 odd kids dead in a shooting. I wonder how many will die in next week's mass shooting, it happens often enough that side of the pond.

I'm all for Gun use in a controlled, regularted and closely monitored environment. But individuals being allowed to keep firearms on their person and making it as readily available as it is in most parts of the USA is just moronic, nothing else to say about that.

And you say it hasn't worked here.. well how many big instances of gun crimes hit the news? Yes there will always be some, but it's a drop in the ocean compared to the yanks, where you can pretty much walk into wallmart and pick up a pistol in the sale.

It is a stupid policy they have, end of.

[Saxoladlesta]

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/man-stabs-22-children-in-china-authorities-.aspx?pageID=238&nID=36843&NewsCatID=356

Also happened today

[Jazz]

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/man-stabs-22-children-in-china-authorities-.aspx?pageID=238&nID=36843&NewsCatID=356

Also happened today

Nasty, although the difference there is that none of the 22 victims died.

Also the stabber should have been detained well before he got a chance to do all that, stabbing that many people should take quite a long time lol.

[Bedford126]

Just been on the news that the gunman was the son of a teacher at the school and he shot her dead.

The world we live in is a pretty messed up place.

[mlawlan69]

He killed his mum? What the actual fuck.

[Bedford126]

Yeah he got into the school he killed the head teacher and the school psychiatrist then he shot and wounded the deputy head then went to his mums classroom killed her and opened fire on her class. then they think he shot himself but they haven't confirmed that yet.

Seriously messed up fair enough if he had a grudge on his mum and the teachers but not at school kids they are nothing but innocent.

[Mr_P]

Messed up psycho who can walk into a shop and buy a gun.

What do they expect?

Haven't had a chance to see any of the news properly, but didn't they find someone dead in his flat too?

[Rogue_Shadow]

And you say it hasn't worked here.. well how many big instances of gun crimes hit the news?

Hardly any, because UK criminal use other means such as knives. I would be interested to see a comparison of gun crime and knife crime figures from both US and UK in equal population ratios.
Like AX has said, if you take away the gun they will use something else.
The gun is an intimidation tool for the attacker to get what they want, from who they want. Or sadly in this case, purely to cause harm.
Replace the gun with anything that can cause harm and the effect is the same.
Gun's should be better policed and President Obama is trying to make that happen against fierce opposition. Howver you'll never get rid of the guns or the crime related to it in America.
Attempting that would be like bailing out water from the Titanic after the iceberg hit.

[mangojace]

Hardly any, because UK criminal use other means such as knives. I would be interested to see a comparison of gun crime and knife crime figures from both US and UK in equal population ratios.
Like AX has said, if you take away the gun they will use something else.
The gun is an intimidation tool for the attacker to get what they want, from who they want. Or sadly in this case, purely to cause harm.
Replace the gun with anything that can cause harm and the effect is the same.
Gun's should be better policed and President Obama is trying to make that happen against fierce opposition. Howver you'll never get rid of the guns or the crime related to it in America.
Attempting that would be like bailing out water from the Titanic after the iceberg hit.

I agree with the equal population ratios. People saying on here 'But it doesn't happen in the uk'.

But we have loads of knife crimes and at the end of the day the UK is a pin drop compared to the size of the US

[mangojace]

Messed up psycho who can walk into a shop and buy a gun.

What do they expect?

Haven't had a chance to see any of the news properly, but didn't they find someone dead in his flat too?

And your point is? He could of done the same damage with a knife

[Bedford126]

We have tonnes of gun crimes in the Uk, My mate is armed response in the police and there isn't a day goes by that he isn't called out.

There was a big shooting incident in Bradford a couple of weeks ago but it didn't even make local news.

[blackie_2k5]

We have tonnes of gun crimes in the Uk, My mate is armed response in the police and there isn't a day goes by that he isn't called out.

There was a big shooting incident in Bradford a couple of weeks ago but it didn't even make local news.

This^^

Most ppl wouldn't even leave their house if they knew just how much actually went on in their local area

You only hear about what the news crews stumble onto

[Tommo87]

All this talk of guns killing people, FFS people kill people guns are just objects which when used incorrectly cause serious damage.

If a person wants to harm/kill another they will do it no matter what the object they are holding.

As for this shooting, well tbh who really gives a shit. A shooting in America and everything stops and everyone needs to know, well no tbh they don't and I for one couldn't give any less of a f**k, what about all the other atrocious crimes committed today, we only see what the media wants and what about corrupt government officials or the fact 99% of people live under their strawman as they know no better these are huge problems much more so than this shooting.

Sorry rant over, just pisses me off, how about china uses this to say the USA is run by nutjobs who allow this to happen without reform then decides to "liberate" (read invade) the country just like America seems to do, now that would be news.

[mangojace]

All this talk of guns killing people, FFS people kill people guns are just objects which when used incorrectly cause serious damage.

If a person wants to harm/kill another they will do it no matter what the object they are holding.

As for this shooting, well tbh who really gives a shit. A shooting in America and everything stops and everyone needs to know, well no tbh they don't and I for one couldn't give any less of a f**k, what about all the other atrocious crimes committed today, we only see what the media wants and what about corrupt government officials or the fact 99% of people live under their strawman as they know no better these are huge problems much more so than this shooting.

Sorry rant over, just pisses me off, how about china uses this to say the USA is run by nutjobs who allow this to happen without reform then decides to "liberate" (read invade) the country just like America seems to do, now that would be news.

+1:y:

Most people are too dumb on here to realise that its not just guns what kill people.

[mlawlan69]

+1:y:

Most people are too dumb on here to realise that its not just guns what kill people.

Rappers do!


http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000654TX8.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[RickP]

And your point is? He could of done the same damage with a knife

He could of KILLED 26 people with a knife, who was he Chuck Norris?
I don't think anyone is saying the gun alone is responsible for killing people, but it makes it a damn site easier to kill with a gun and to kill in much larger numbers!

[Manu]

This is terrible.

[Jazz]

He could of KILLED 26 people with a knife, who was he Chuck Norris?
I don't think anyone is saying the gun alone is responsible for killing people, but it makes it a damn site easier to kill with a gun and to kill in much larger numbers!

+1 this. It is certainly by far the easiest way to commit serial murder. Squeeze the trigger and your victim falls. Knife is more hands on, more difficult, harder to kill your victim.

Make it harder to obtain guns and it becomes that little bit harder to commit this sort of crime.

[dondan]

It's horrific news to see this happening again.

Personally if I lived in the states, and I had the right to conceal a firearm for personal protection I would- because the people likely to hurt me carry how else could I feasibly defend myself?

Guns aren't the problem, people are.

[jonathon5]

It happens all over even in this country not so long ago

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungerford_massacre

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings

It happens all over , the one common theme guns

[logic_guy]

Why do you own one if you are not Law Enforcement or someone that is Required to have a gun, Then why do they have one ? Because they feel the right to?

If you've got a gun, why have you got it? Play with fire then you get hurt.

Not so many years ago a teach at a Local Upper School killed his mum, dismembered her, put her in the fridge. The day before he was working with 15/ 16 year olds. God knows what would have happened if he had a gun.

[logic_guy]

What happened to that wealthy family that were all shot dead by the husband? What was the motive in the end?

I think it was about 3 or 4 years ago when he took a shot gun and killed the daughters, wife and a horse iirc and then killed him self in the family's barn because he owed £££ to the Tax man. I think he was going through a divorce too?

I remember watching it on Sky News and the chopper flying over the crime scene.

[dave_1]

Banning guns just wont work, carrying knifes is illegal in this country but look at the amount of knife attacks/crimes. Not sure on the licience in America but know its alot harder to get one over here and fire arms you need to justify why you want one.

[Jazz]

Thing is banning guns will at least give them incentives not to have them for fear of getting arrested. Obviously it won't work on a lot of people but its still better then encouraging people to go and buy another one along with their groceries.

[dondan]

Taking guns off people who don't break the law with them, isn't going to stop a criminal or psychopath using theirs- if anything it makes it easier for them.

[jonathon5]

Taking guns off people who don't break the law with them, isn't going to stop a criminal or psychopath using theirs- if anything it makes it easier for them.


True as proved in this country

[Jazz]

Taking guns off people who don't break the law with them, isn't going to stop a criminal or psychopath using theirs- if anything it makes it easier for them.

But then you get into the cycle of people carrying guns to protect themselves from others with guns, still wrong.

Like in London, many youths claim to be carrying knives for protection when stopped by police. It's still not an excuse to be carrying a dangerous weapon.

[Bedford126]

But then you get into the cycle of people carrying guns to protect themselves from others with guns, still wrong.

Like in London, many youths claim to be carrying knives for protection when stopped by police. It's still not an excuse to be carrying a dangerous weapon.

You are so shallow minded. A family member over in the us has so many guns and fire arms its crazy he carries a Glock to work in a office he has 4 kids in the house and none of them would ever dream of doing anything like this.

In Amarica having and using guns as a hobby and sport is a way of life for most people, As every one keeps saying people kill people guns just help them do it. Why should every one be tarnished with the same brush.

And for your information you cannot just walk into a supermarket and buy a gun you have to provide id your social security number and you have to have a clean criminal record, then you have to wait 4-6 months for a cooling off period before you even get the gun.

[Mr_P]

And for your information you cannot just walk into a supermarket and buy a gun you have to provide id your social security number and you have to have a clean criminal record, then you have to wait 4-6 months for a cooling off period before you even get the gun.

It varies from state to state. Connecticut being one of the strictest, but it's a damn sight easier to get one in America, than in the UK.

As for Mangojuiceface ir whatever, it'd take some doing to carry out the same atrocity with a knife. So stop being stupid.

[Jazz]

You are so shallow minded. A family member over in the us has so many guns and fire arms its crazy he carries a Glock to work in a office he has 4 kids in the house and none of them would ever dream of doing anything like this.

In Amarica having and using guns as a hobby and sport is a way of life for most people, As every one keeps saying people kill people guns just help them do it. Why should every one be tarnished with the same brush.

And for your information you cannot just walk into a supermarket and buy a gun you have to provide id your social security number and you have to have a clean criminal record, then you have to wait 4-6 months for a cooling off period before you even get the gun.

LOL :clapping:

It's not being shallow minded, in the same way we shouldn't be walking round carrying knives and crowbars, I'm saying Yanks shouldn't be walkig round carrying a gun unless you're wearing a badge. Some people need to open their eyes.

Key events in the last 5 years only in the USA:

April 2007: Virginia Tech becomes the site of the deadliest shooting in US history, with 32 people killed.

January 2012: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords is shot and injured at a public appearance. Six others are killed.

April 2012: Seven die at a small Korean college in California.

July 2012: James Holmes walks into an Aurora, Colorado, movie theatre and systematically begins firing rounds into fleeing moviegoers, killing 12 and wounding 59. Holmes brought five weapons to the theater: a Smith & Wesson AR-15, two Glock .40 pistols, a knife and a Remington model 870 pump shotgun he left in his car. How difficult would it be in this country to get hold of all those weapons? Next to impossible. Laws in the state of Colorado, similar to those across the US, allowed James Holmes to obtain his weapons with ease. The situation in my native UK is vastly different. Holmes reportedly drove up to the movie theater with his arsenal. That too was entirely legal in Colorado—as long as the guns are visible, you don’t need a permit. In the UK, the only kind of weapon you may carry is a rifle, and that is only if you belong to a recognized shooting club. under the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, assault weapons were banned in the US, but the act was not renewed in 2004, meaning that there are no federal restrictions on the ownership of AR-15s and similar weapons. All assault weapons are illegal in the UK.

When was the last time anything like that happened in the UK? People comparing us to the USA in regards to gun-crime are being fucking stupid, we're not even in the same ballpark.

Because of the relaxed culture there about guns, it is seen as 'normal' to be openly using and carrying them- you're just asking for trouble with that, accidental or otherwise. Too many in circulation means it is far easier for potential murderes to get hold of lethal hardware then here.

How many more mass-killings must happen before they get off their fat arses and do something about it.

Edit- No federal restrictions on owning shit like this. LMAO... Its not hard to see their problem.

http://www.dndguns.com/images/03a-shrike-006.jpg

[jonathon5]

A prime example is the Scandanavian countries where gun ownership per head is as high as USA . But the crime rate is very very low

It could be a social attitude thing , alot of Americans beleive there is nothing outside of the USA . Foolish

[McGuire86]

Guns will never be banned in America, there's too much money in it

[Bedford126]

LOL :clapping:

Edit- No federal restrictions on owning shit like this. LMAO... Its not hard to see their problem.

http://www.dndguns.com/images/03a-shrike-006.jpg

Wrong again that gun is fully auto and was made after 19th may 1986 so it would have to be converted to single fire before you could own it.

Guns will never be banned in the us.

It's their right to bear arms so why shouldn't they.

[McGuire86]

Wrong again that gun is fully auto and was made after 19th may 1986 so it would have to be converted to single fire before you could own it.

Guns will never be banned in the us.

It's their right to bear arms so why shouldn't they.

So I guess all the south central LA gangsters had their AK-47's converted to single fire before they owned them ?

[Bedford126]

So I guess all the south central LA gangsters had their AK-47's converted to single fire before they owned them ?

So i guess you cant buy illegal weapons in the us? :homme:

Also you can buy and import the AR-15 into the uk with no problems as long as the gas recharge system had been removed. so you can have a gun just like that in the uk.

[McGuire86]

Making the point as the law is much more open to own guns in the U.S. it's makes it so much easier to have access to them...

[Bedford126]

Making the point as the law is much more open to own guns in the U.S. it's makes it so much easier to have access to them...

No the law isn't much more open in america they have guideline's just like here. Its just legal to buy/own a greater range of guns over there. No matter where you go you will find illegal guns that follow no rules or regulations.

[McGuire86]

No the law isn't much more open in america they have guideline's just like here. Its just legal to buy/own a greater range of guns over there. No matter where you go you will find illegal guns that follow no rules or regulations.

:clapping:

[Bedford126]

:clapping:

How does that make the law much more open. If anything it means they have more laws covering a greater range of guns?

[McGuire86]

It varies, but it's extremely open compared to most democratic countries. California is pretty tough but in Colorado even students can carry guns. Oh yeah and the ban on automatic weapons expired in 2004...

[AXracing]

It happens all over even in this country not so long ago

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungerford_massacre

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings

It happens all over , the one common theme guns

This is however a very selective example. All in all guns are not normally used for mass murders. for example

Colin Ireland Murdered at least 5 people
Harold Shipman murdered over 300 people
Stephen Akinmurele murdered at least 5 people
John Adams murdered over 160 people
Steve Wright murdered 5 people
Colin Norris murdered at least 4 people
Peter Dinsdale murdered 26 people
Mary Ann Cotton murdered 21 people
William Burke and William Hare murdered over 16 people
Stephen Griffith murdered 3 people
Dennis Haigh murdered over 15 people
Peter Sutcliffe murdered 15 people
The Wests murdered over 12 people
Patrick Mackay murdered over 12 people
Robert Black murdered over 11 people
William Palmer murdered over 10 people
Catherine Wilson murdered over 9 people
Kiernan Wilson murdered 9 people
Thomas Cream murdered 9 people

These are just a few of the mass murderers from the UK all who killed not using guns. There are far more mass murders not involving guns.

[AXracing]

But then you get into the cycle of people carrying guns to protect themselves from others with guns, still wrong.

Like in London, many youths claim to be carrying knives for protection when stopped by police. It's still not an excuse to be carrying a dangerous weapon.

How very wrong you are. For starters most gun crime here and in the US is involving illegally held guns to start with. Just look at drugs in the UK for another example how banning something does not get rid of it. If you want a gun you will find it not all that hard to get hold of one.

Its also more often then not in worldwide history the lack of people being able to defend them self that has resulted in mass murders. If this person had say tried to do this at a shooting range someone would have stopped him far before he killed even a small fraction of as many people.

Sad to say but views like you have are frighteningly similar to most fascist dictators :wacko:

[AXracing]

It varies, but it's extremely open compared to most democratic countries. California is pretty tough but in Colorado even students can carry guns. Oh yeah and the ban on automatic weapons expired in 2004...

Even though California had by far the tightest gun laws in the US it actually has one of the biggest gun related problems. With some of the most serial killings taking place there.

Some of the places with more lax gun laws actually have the lowest gun crime. One great example of this is must carry laws that when applied greatly reduced the crime rate.

[AXracing]

A prime example is the Scandanavian countries where gun ownership per head is as high as USA . But the crime rate is very very low

It could be a social attitude thing , alot of Americans beleive there is nothing outside of the USA . Foolish

This is very true. A great example of this is Switzerland where the government actually give citizens free assault rifles and even trains them how to use them. Not only this but also issues free ammunition every year to encourage people to stay competent with there rifles. Yet it has some of the lowest crime and murder rates in the world. Yes suicides may tend to involve guns but saying that it has quite a low suicide rate.

[AXracing]

assault weapons were banned in the US, but the act was not renewed in 2004, meaning that there are no federal restrictions on the ownership of AR-15s and similar weapons. All assault weapons are illegal in the UK.


Also very wrong. for such a strong view you appear to not have bothered to look up your facts. An assault weapon as defined by the US ban was and still is perfectly legal in the UK. They can be legally owned for target shooting, pest control, hunting or even as part of a historical collection. The US ban was about the looks of the gun and the magazine system. Under UK law none of this is restricted. For example I can legally go out and buy a AR15.

[AXracing]

When was the last time anything like that happened in the UK? People comparing us to the USA in regards to gun-crime are being fucking stupid, we're not even in the same ballpark.

But your choosing to ignore the fact that the US is a lot bigger then the UK. Your also choosing to ignore the fact that many states in the US actually have a lower mass murder rate then the UK. These are just simple facts and choosing to ignore them will not change them. Yes some places in the US have really bad crime in general. But some parts of Europe do as well, should we add there stats to the UKs as well?

[Bedford126]

But your choosing to ignore the fact that the US is a lot bigger then the UK. Your also choosing to ignore the fact that many states in the US actually have a lower mass murder rate then the UK. These are just simple facts and choosing to ignore them will not change them. Yes some places in the US have really bad crime in general. But some parts of Europe do as well, should we add there stats to the UKs as well?

I agree with your comments mate. I am guessing u have a uk firearms licence?

[blackie_2k5]

Lots of good an bad points in here, but you have to aggree, outlawing guns would dramatically reduce the risk of mass murders like this by general idiots

However.. If you want one, you WILL find one, same as over here

Just the same as knives over here, supposed new laws etc all bollox!!

Just bought myself a new knife for work, supposed to be singed for by someoem with proof of ID/age

Pushed through my door today for £9.96 delivered from amazon..

If its that easy to get one of these, no wonder kids get slashed up all the time

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/12/16/tegujuba.jpg

[mangojace]

It varies from state to state. Connecticut being one of the strictest, but it's a damn sight easier to get one in America, than in the UK.

As for Mangojuiceface ir whatever, it'd take some doing to carry out the same atrocity with a knife. So stop being stupid.

Not really to a phyco. They would happily stab a few people to death or use a base ball bat on them. Everyone thinks its just guns whats the problem lool

[AzzAW93]

Not really to a phyco. They would happily stab a few people to death or use a base ball bat on them. Everyone thinks its just guns whats the problem lool

i think hes trying to say you can shoot more people in the time it takes to stab anywhere near the same amount, and thats pretty obvious in my oppinion.
its also alot easier to stop someone with a knife than it is a gun due to the fact they need to be next to you to use the knife.
and at a guess a gun shot is more fatal than one stab
therefore it is alot easier to commit mass murder with a gun. although like you said if you want to kill alot of people there are many ways to do so without a gun or anything illegal like a jerry can and a lighter

[AXracing]

I think this video sums it up best. It shows both sides and describes well the trueth about guns and gun control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuRulLybhoc&list=UUSQi6ppbBFw0UWO_depy5eg&index=6

[D1zzyman]

did you hear about the principal, she died trying to lunge at the gunman. i absolutely admire her courage.

[AXracing]

Just seen a interesting facts.

For 2010 in the US 8775 where murdered with firearms. Yup that sounds a hell of a lot. Interesting this is only two thirds of all murders. So still a massive chunk of there killing do not involve guns.

Yet in 2010 a massive 10,530 people where killed by vehicles where speeding was found the primary factor.

So your more likely to be killed by a speeding motorist then a gun toting criminal.

So they would be better fitting compulsory GPS speed limiters to all vehicle to stop the illegal speeders then any law to try remove guns from criminals. Insane as it may sound to some if you its still true.

[Mr_P]

i think hes trying to say you can shoot more people in the time it takes to stab anywhere near the same amount, and thats pretty obvious in my oppinion.
its also alot easier to stop someone with a knife than it is a gun due to the fact they need to be next to you to use the knife.
and at a guess a gun shot is more fatal than one stab
therefore it is alot easier to commit mass murder with a gun. although like you said if you want to kill alot of people there are many ways to do so without a gun or anything illegal like a jerry can and a lighter

This basically. I'm not saying guns are the problem. They don't fire themselves.

I'm not against guns. I'm not full on into them, but I own a couple of full power air rifles and pistols. I don't hunt, I don't take them out to scare people, one of them looks like it could kill you from 300yds, but it won't, it's just an air rifle that I like to use for a bit of plinking as a small hobbie of mine.

End of the day, 27 innocent people were killed, 20 of them were children. That is tragic. If anybody on this forum disagrees with that then there is something wrong with you. Would this have happened if this bloke hadn't been able to get hold of a gun? Possibly, possibly not.

I am not getting into an argument about gun laws, violence, nutters or anything else. I find this an extremely upsetting story. Adults and children die needlessly everyday and it won't reach the news, it doesn't make them any worse than any other.

The fact those parents who had children killed have probably already wrapped their Christmas presents is fucking heartbreaking tbh.

[jonathon5]

What is the most murderous country in the word ???

Guess it not the USA

[AXracing]

What is the most murderous country in the word ???

Guess it not the USA

Depends if your talking total murders or murder rates. On both fronts the USA is way down. Total murders places like India and Brazil are way out in front. If your talking murder rates much of Central America way out do us all but most of Africa and Caribbean are right up there as well.

If your talking violent crime however the UK is one of the worst in Europe. Your actually more likely to be physically assaulted in the UK then you are in the USA or even what many consider the most dangerous country in the world South Africa.

[Zander123]

He I have went on holiday for the last 5 ors years to the usa and when u got to get gas (petrol) in the us they have signs up if u use a gun to rob this gas station its like 15 to 20 years just to show it never mind us it to rob the place

[Zander123]

Thats just to show a hand gun

[Zander123]

Thats just to show a hand gun

yes just show a fire arm

[Zander123]

if u show fash a gun ur gone

[mlawlan69]

wait, wut? 0,o

[Brettles1986]

What is the most murderous country in the word ???

Guess it not the USA

I'm going to hazard a guess at south Africa being quite high up there

[Jazz]

Also very wrong. for such a strong view you appear to not have bothered to look up your facts. An assault weapon as defined by the US ban was and still is perfectly legal in the UK. They can be legally owned for target shooting, pest control, hunting or even as part of a historical collection. The US ban was about the looks of the gun and the magazine system. Under UK law none of this is restricted. For example I can legally go out and buy a AR15.

The United Kingdom has one of the lowest rates of gun homicides in the world with 0.07 recorded intentional homicides committed with a firearm per 100,000 inhabitants in 2009 compared to the United States' 3.0 and to Germany's 0.21.

As far as I am aware the AR 15s are not allowed to be sold here with the same spec and abilties with their US counterparts. Taken from a reputable UK Gun-sale site: "To comply with UK laws these rifles are manufactured from new as single-shot straight-pull bolt action rifles and will need to be re-cocked/reloaded by hand for each shot, they are not self-loading 'gas-guns'. As such these rifles will fall under Section 1 of the Firearms Act and will need an authorisation to acquire on the relevant Firearms Certificate (FAC)."

So to comply with the UK law these guns are only sold as single-shot weapons, not rapid-fire bursts like in the US.

[0rang3peel]

guns dont kill people.

rappers do dum dum dum de dum

[AXracing]

So to comply with the UK law these guns are only sold as single-shot weapons, not rapid-fire bursts like in the US.

Again you are very wrong. Multi shot weapons are perfectly legal. multi shot Semi auto, multi shot lever release and multi shot strait pull variants of the AR15 are but a few variants that are perfectly legal to own in the UK. Yes if you wish to nit pick we may not be able to own all the variants available in the US but on the flip side there are versions we can own in the UK that a civilian can not readily own in some states of the US.

[AXracing]

The United Kingdom has one of the lowest rates of gun homicides in the world with 0.07 recorded intentional homicides committed with a firearm per 100,000 inhabitants in 2009 compared to the United States' 3.0 and to Germany's 0.21.

Again misleading to say the least. In saying this you are trying to sway people in to thinking guns are related to murders. Why not look at total murders. Suddenly the UK does not look such a nice place.

As you mentioned Germany I will start with them. They have a much greater gun ownership rate getting on to 5 times that of the UK. But the total murder rate is far less then that of the UK

Then why not compare the UK murder rates again Switzerland who has one of the highest gun ownership in the world. So if guns did relate to murders why does the UK have what is getting on for double the total murder rate?

I don't know if your simply against guns or are just being mislead by the so called news. But the facts tell the story. As people have already pointed out on the forum guns don't kill people. People kill people and its other aspects of life that push people in to murdering others. Things that effect murder rates are things like poverty, organized crime, education and such like all have far greater impact.

[Kebabman]

I don't know if your simply against guns or are just being mislead by the so called news. But the facts tell the story. As people have already pointed out on the forum guns don't kill people. People kill people and its other aspects of life that push people in to murdering others. Things that effect murder rates are things like poverty, organized crime, education and such like all have far greater impact.

^^^^^ Totally right. The problem with the USA is not just the ridiculous gun ownership rate but the mentality that runs with it. I agree that assault rifles and other ridiculous weapons out there should never be held in the home but the reasons for these mass killings go far beyond simple gun ownership laws.

[Ash1711]

Guns should not be as readily available in the USA... Ok people kill people it's not the guns but if the murderer didn't have access to a gun he couldn't have shot dead all the innocent children - fact.

There may be other ways to kill but get rid of guns and i'd predict less killings of innocent children...

[Saxologist]

The shooter did not purchase the guns, they where actually his mothers who had bought them to protect herself from her ex-husband.

His mother had taken him to shooting ranges in order for him to practice if anything did happen.

The stories going around that the divorce wasn't a pleasant one, and pushed him over the edge, he was a mentally ill person with schizophrenia. If he was in his 'sane' mind then he probably wouldn't have done it, I'm not saying this as his excuse, but I hope before taking his own life he felt remorseful and ashamed. Alas, the stories will not tell or know.

On the news earlier it was announced he had enough ammunition to murder ever child at the school.

Again, i'm not justifying what he had done, it is terrible, even more so then the cinema shooting during 'Dark Knight Rises' film, which touched many people, especially when it was revealed a boyfriend dove in front of his girlfriend in order to protect her.