Full space frame

[jay9119]

hi, i am going to start a project thread soon but after some advice.

I am looking at doing a full space frame vts running 2 honda fireblade cbr1000rr engine's

this is going to be semi road legal, have a plan for my local police :)
has anybody on here done a full space frame any hints and tip's in this process, will start to upload pic's when i make a start.

[wadoryu]

Check out hybriduno's progress thread, although tbh if you need to ask, are you sure you could take on a project like this?

[Mike_Roberts]

Unless you're a very good fabricator with a vast amount of tools, or have a lot of money to pay somebody to do it, you're probably biting off more than you can chew.

Semi road legal? It's either legal or it isn't?!

[jay9119]

yes it will be a good project. i am able to do most the fab work myself. i have full use of a mandril hydraulic bender, so the frame work wont be so bad im after advice on what sort of style to go i am after super light super fast, also i have a had a long think i have the 2 engine's with all wiring ect so having them rebuilt and a slight tune but i am unsure weather 2 have the 2 in the rear powering rear wheels or 1 front 1 rear and have a 4 wheel drive set up, also what suspension to use as i don't want to be running saxo suspension. i have a chap who is helping me build this and he is a pro at building bike engine'd powerd cars for autograss. so with all this aside . i need some answer's

1.whats best suspension setup for this type of car.
2.best brake's to use.
3.2 or 4 wheel drive.

[Yates]

Speak to z cars see what suspension they use, no one on here bar one person has a bike engined car, so what's good for their car won't be for yours. Weight distribution will be completely different

[jay9119]

will make an interesting thread then, i have the donor car so may start work asap

[KamRacing]

If you are going to make a full space frame then you need the skill to create something stiff and light and with good suspension geometry to help get power down and get the car handling well. I'm guessing as you are asking the basic questions you are no engineer. If not I don't see the point as it will not turn ou well and no doubt will be worse than using the standard chassis. Best suspension is probably double wishbone all round. Best brakes - the lightest that will stop the car

[Kebabman]

What was said above really. There is no point asking what sort of upgraded suspension will be best if you're effectively rebuilding the whole car. All the weight will be in different places and the structural integrity will be massively different. To get a car like that to work really well is a hell of a job. Have a look around the net for Andy Burton's peugeot cosworth and read up about how long it took him to get it working properly. He is an excellent engineer as well.

What are you planning on doing with the car when it's built?

[mlawlan69]

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[Mike_Roberts]

There's loads of things to consider... Most of the bike engined autograss cars have a chain to a solid rear axle which is useless on anything other than grass. You can get diffs which turn a chain drive into a proper lsd with driveshafts but they aren't cheap at all!

[L33h]

Be prepared to spend ALOT of money lol. A blade engine alone will be £1500. I hope you're a very skilled fabricator with alot of spare cash lol.

however i wish you luck. Id love to see you pull it off :)

[Misterk]

Wow, awesome idea and I hope you see it through..

Here is my mates car to give you some inspiration.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/31/7eqesaga.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/31/ynu4aze7.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/31/ma2abahe.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/31/yzyby4ur.jpg

Fully space framed focus running a four wheel drive 2.6 twin turbo Nissan skyline engine

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/31/ju8azaza.jpg


What your attempting is a massive task, the focus took years

[jay9119]

Massive task yes it is. But I am confident I have the skill to do it I have built a few cages that all have been ok. I used to work for power flow hence my tube bending skill's. I will be using a drive box from zcars so I have a diff so in turn will help put the power down, I brought both my engin's for 2k. From local bike brakers. As I want a very good handling chassis I asked about suspension and brakes to see what people's ideas are.

[jay9119]

Also I can not find hybriduno's thread anywhere

[Chris_O]

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=428365

[Ross]

How do you plan on making it road legal?

[jay9119]

this is the thing im not it's going to be a track car and im going to use it to terrorise the local police force,

[Ross]

I'm confused. You plan to use it on the road without it being road legal?

[axsaxoman]

If making total space frame with fwd why make in a saxo?
If you do all that is needed then making a grp mould of a saxo shell to put on this frame will not be a problem to you ,
as for engine choice --why m/c engines they have bugger all torque compared to car engines --use 2 x honda civic typr r engines/geraboxs+suspension cross members +drive shafts +struts+brakes --half the job is done --they will relativly cheap --and you can drop a s/c on them ands get 400+ per engine and drive like a road car . or just suffer the 200 as std from each engine
there is no weay you can run twin engined car on the road and the conversion you are considering will need an SVA test anyway

[Yates]

Spend all that money to then terrorize police, no doubt get it crushed ans you lose license?

[jay9119]

don't any of you remember Ghost rider from a few years ago?? this is my sort of theme i am going for. reason for using the engine's? my half bro has a one in kis raw striker and it goes lovely has a nice feel to it, the idea i am looking at it more a kit car with a saxo shell 80% of the parts i have the 20% i don't have will wait till i have the space frame rolling so not essential. why make it a saxo. i love the look of the gti/vtr/s.

plus the police have wound me up the past few years been pull'd ect they think there all good in there x5's so need to be taught a lesion

[jay9119]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYWtInM8D7E

[Bedford126]

plus the police have wound me up the past few years been pull'd ect they think there all good in there x5's so need to be taught a lesion

Can see this going well.

[Cam]

Not sure if srs,

His on a GSXR 1000 your going to be in a Saxo...

[saxo_singh]

Made me lol at terrorising the police!

If they can catch up with Lambos, Audi RS', Porsches', they defo catch up with a tin can saxo with a mug behind the wheel.

[shaund123]

This is the worst thing I've ever heard!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Prickle]

How do you plan on making it road legal?

this is the thing im not it's going to be a track car and im going to use it to terrorise the local police force,


http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/508/watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png

[AlexB]

this is the thing im not it's going to be a track car and im going to use it to terrorise the local police force,

I hope they catch you make you watch as they crush it then put you in prison for driving like an utter cunt with no tax mot or insureance and you get bummed by a big biker called larry and he makes you his bitch

[jay9119]

lol at you guy's like i say the time has gone where they need putting in there place + there is a sensible time and place to do things

[AlexB]

And what your suggesting is just stupid on every level just to be a dick to the police

[jay9119]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crKCJiOFF-k

[Ross]

Obvious troll is obvious.

[Misterk]

I hope they catch you make you watch as they crush it then put you in prison for driving like an utter cunt with no tax mot or insureance and you get bummed by a big biker called larry and he makes you his bitch

Right so let me get this straight....

You want to take a saxo, cut out all the floor/chassis (the strong part of the car) and replace it with a few bits of round tube and some bike engines??
Your then going to take it on the roads without having it checked over with no insurance and deliberately get into a police chase so you can drive like a nob risking the lives of the general public for fun??

Are you fu@king retarded :wall:

Lets hope that not if but WHEN you get it wrong you only kill yourself.. TWAT

[Misterk]

Can't edit my post.. Quoted wrong person :wall:

[saxova]

don't any of you remember Ghost rider from a few years ago?? this is my sort of theme i am going for. reason for using the engine's? my half bro has a one in kis raw striker and it goes lovely has a nice feel to it, the idea i am looking at it more a kit car with a saxo shell 80% of the parts i have the 20% i don't have will wait till i have the space frame rolling so not essential. why make it a saxo. i love the look of the gti/vtr/s.

plus the police have wound me up the past few years been pull'd ect they think there all good in there x5's so need to be taught a lesion

Retarded retard is retarded.

[LSOfreak]

all jokes aside, not think its time to grow up a bit? you're going on as if the police are bad guys here

if you do ever complete a project like this, (which i personally think you're up there with all the other dreamers)
all what will happen is you'll get caught with no insurance, mot and tax, car will get crushed and you'll either get points a ban or even prison if your careless actions injure someone

as i say mate... time to grow up a bit

[L33h]

ghost rider is from sweden... and a gp rider (i think). are you that good in a car or on a bike?

i seriously doubt it

[jay9119]

1st off i must apologise i had a very bad couple of day's i have been pull'd 15 times in 3 day's also got arrested for fuel drive off's but thankfully cctv reveled my vts plated on a rusty tranny van, happy days. car is going to be track based for the 1st year so i can iron out any issue's then hopefully will get it road legal.

[Yates]

surely when they had reports of someone driving off from a fuel station they said it was a transit?!

what did you do to get pulled 5 times a day?

[jay9119]

well the police have nothing better to do, they can not put 2+2 together and if they do they come up with 3, they kept pulling me over for no reason one of the times they locked me up in the back of there car because they said i had stole my car the funny thing is i had a full receipt in glove box and they would not let me get it until they sent another officer to check.

[K567]

haveing read some of the questions youve asked in the past about minor jobs that your doing and how you dont know how to do them.....

I'd say, get your mum to change your nappy, and pop you back in your cradle cos.... seriously you havent got a clue mate

if your asking about building a space frame car, and you have no idea the type of suspension or brakes, youre claiming to do it to terrorise the local boys in blue like GR and you reckon you'll be able to do it with 2 fireblade engines in a space frame saxo..... I take of my hat and PMSL at you pal.....

Stick to sucking lollies and pooping your nappies bench boy

[K567]

ps what did you do find GR on youtube today or something.....

[jay9119]

ur a fucking joker ent you lmao u have no idea do you :p lol so if i ask question it means im incapable of doing other stuff. funny shiz that is, so the fact me and my bro have built a nearly 500bhp r5 running vag, and a type r conversion on a crx, but this means i can not weld a load of tubes together even tho i have the help of a pro builder of space frame's. if you have no input don't bother posting. if u wana be a keyboard warrior please pm me and we will meet up and have a lovely chat well i hang of ur moma's titty

[Yates]

his moma loves bike engined saxos

[ed-bradley]

The fuck did I just read.

[jay9119]

his moma loves bike engined saxos
his moma is going to love my cock up her ass

[Yates]

let me guess you got pulled five times today?

[jay9119]

nope this was friday

[Yates]

but you are still getting angry over it so insulting people because everyones laughed at your truely amazing and ground breaking ideas?

[Alfie09]

There's only a few bunch of guys I would trust to make a space frame for a bike in your area, one doesn't do private work but is building a lovely mk2 escort (him and his family have being building race cars and winning championships since the 60s)

The other is Ian and his friends out at peplow aka Cyril Wilcox he has built some very handy shale racing space framed cars!!!

Glad I'm not around Telford any more but ill be sure to tell my mates back home about you so they can point and laugh when they go past you on the bikes

[jay9119]

my idea is still going on. I AM building this car with or without this site's input. maybe i went ott saying i was going to race round the streets in a untaxed car with no mot or insurance i and have said sorry but i am still keen to do this and as soon as i get the plans for the fraim i will be making a start

[Alfie09]

let me guess you got pulled five times today?

Think that she be he pulled himself off five times today!!!

[Yates]

my idea is still going on. I AM building this car with or without this site's input. maybe i went ott saying i was going to race round the streets in a untaxed car with no mot or insurance i and have said sorry but i am still keen to do this and as soon as i get the plans for the fraim i will be making a start

please make a progress thread

haters gona hate

[Alfie09]

Damn can't edit my posts.

Does Sam still own the long life franchise in Telford!!

And bending an exhaust is a bit different to bending a cage, adding the correct gussets in etc

[jay9119]

There's only a few bunch of guys I would trust to make a space frame for a bike in your area, one doesn't do private work but is building a lovely mk2 escort (him and his family have being building race cars and winning championships since the 60s)

The other is Ian and his friends out at peplow aka Cyril Wilcox he has built some very handy shale racing space framed cars!!!

Glad I'm not around Telford any more but ill be sure to tell my mates back home about you so they can point and laugh when they go past you on the bikes

if ur you are a person who know's these people do you know tommy law? he is the one doing the space frame.
and yha i know the boys down Cyril Wilcox had a lovely 206 didn't they. read the post above if u dont have nothing good to say don't bother

[Bedford126]

my idea is still going on. I AM building this car with or without this site's input. maybe i went ott saying i was going to race round the streets in a untaxed car with no mot or insurance i and have said sorry but i am still keen to do this and as soon as i get the plans for the frame i will be making a start

No one actually gives a fuck what you do. You are just one huge bellend on the tinterwebs acting like the big man. You do realise we have helicopters in the uk so you are fucked you dumb cunt.

[jay9119]

No one actually gives a fuck what you do. You are just one huge bellend on the tinterwebs acting like the big man. You do realise we have helicopters in the uk so you are fucked you dumb cunt.

righto like i said i went over the top with saying i was going to do that. you dont no me dont you so piss off im here to build a car not take a load of abuse from cheeky basterd like you!

[Alfie09]

Being along time since I spoke with Ian at Cyril's, think they were building a 206 looking car last time I was there.at the time they were Racing a starlet .

They changed series as they couldn't keep up with the cars my family built back in the day, the rivalry went back to the sixties when Cyril , my uncle and his brother all used to race lotus cortinas etc, then moved on to sons racing sons and soon will be grandsons racing each other

[Gandi699]

And how is anyone on here going to be able to help when no ones really done it?

[Alfie09]

righto like i said i went over the top with saying i was going to do that. you dont no me dont you so piss off im here to build a car not take a load of abuse from cheeky basterd like you!

If that's how you speak to the police it's no wonder you spend do much time in there cars

[Bedford126]

righto like i said i went over the top with saying i was going to do that. you dont no me dont you so piss off im here to build a car not take a load of abuse from cheeky basterd like you!

First of all learn the English language.

Second of all its a public forum I can give as much abuse and call you whatever I like and you are one first rate bell end.

[jay9119]

well i will have thread to show what i hae done also i am sure there are people that will have answers to my questions.

[Alfie09]

well i will have thread to show what i hae done also i am sure there are people that will have answers to my questions.



They must have a reason to pull you, maybe it's the attitude you give off.

One day you will slip up, say something wrong etc then they will have you

[jay9119]

They must have a reason to pull you, maybe it's the attitude you give off.

One day you will slip up, say something wrong etc then they will have you

lol im driving at 30 in a 30 zone wife and kiddys in the car blue lights what am i doing!!! yes one day i may slip up who care's i sure dont i have been jail and its not the worst place to be tbh now can you all piss off this i will be building my car and i dont give 2 fuck's who wants to slate me at the end of the day i will have the better car :)

[Gandi699]

Put a photo of yourself up so we can all recognise you when you are on police interceptors or traffic cops

[jay9119]

lol how many time i said that out of anger im not going to be taking it on the public roads till i have it fully tested and legal. and the last thing i will be doing is toying with the police

[jay9119]

right to save myself time and money i have been looking at this..
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/motorsport/race-cars/spaceframe/citroen-saxo-kit-car--spaceframe--cosworth/1140051

what are people thorts for 10k

[Alfie09]

Hmm I wonder how many of my mate are still west Mercia, I know one is now tactile support but at least one is still a traffic cop.

Man I bet your wife and kids are so proud to have such a keyboard warrior in there lives

[Alfie09]

Would need a complete rebuild to do what you want but that's the kind of price tag you would be looking at to do a twin engined space frame that is road legal.

Man im glad I only visit Telford once every few monthes

[jay9119]

i am more than that, tell you what send old bill to me they have not got shit on me. never will have ether so please forward this info to them and i will await there response..

p.s yes my wife and kids are so proud of me i bring home the bacon make sure we have a house to live in and even make sure they have everything they want more then can be said about you who proberly is living at home with ur mom and dad scrounging off the doll

[Yates]

not sure what you mean by brining home bacon ;)

as for that saxo, that is awesome

[jay9119]

not sure what you mean by brining home bacon ;)

as for that saxo, that is awesome

bring home the cash

[jay9119]

wont need to much work to run the bike engin's will just need to buy the rear drive box from zcars http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/motorsport/race-cars/spaceframe/citroen-saxo-kit-car--spaceframe--cosworth/1140051

[Alfie09]

wont need to much work to run the bike engin's will just need to buy the rear drive box from zcars http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/motorsport/race-cars/spaceframe/citroen-saxo-kit-car--spaceframe--cosworth/1140051

And a complete suspension over haul as the rates will be all wrong and mounts hanging for the engines the list goes on but hey you can fabricate an exhaust so that will be easy.

At least when you abuse me spell it correctly, doll is actually DOLE which these days is in fact job seekers allowance but will soon become universal credit.

Ohhh I know a fair abit about that as my wife is a manager at the department of work and pensions who actually run the job centres and benefits offices.


As for me I work for one of the major German car companies

[jay9119]

you chat alot of shit! not rilly alot of work chop out and replace the engine mount's, change suspension add drive box and rear shaft's ect jobs almost there, now will u please piss off my thread

[Bedford126]

you chat alot of shit! not rilly alot of work chop out and replace the engine mount's, change suspension add drive box and rear shaft's ect jobs almost there, now will u please piss off my thread

Will you please learn to speak in fucking English.

[Alfie09]

you chat alot of shit! not rilly alot of work chop out and replace the engine mount's, change suspension add drive box and rear shaft's ect jobs almost there, now will u please piss off my thread

As you have said else where on the thread you will do what you want and I will do the same.

I have an engineering back ground and know the sort of work involved in changing mounts etc and it won't be easy.

Have helped build a number of serious off road machines and kit cars and even on something as simple as say a Westfield or tiger going from the engine the frame is designed for to a different one can take many hours of measuring, fabricating ,welding, moving etc can take an awful lot of time

I hope you have very deep pockets as a project like this will need them, even if you know people who will help you out

[manta]

Hi Jay,

I understand that you used to work at powerflow, this makes you qualified to make the tea, not to build space frames.

Get your head out of the clouds.

Rob

p.s you're a cunt

[LSOfreak]

i'll gaurantee this project doesnt happen

please post up pics when done to prove me wrong

[KamRacing]

right to save myself time and money i have been looking at this..
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/motorsport/race-cars/spaceframe/citroen-saxo-kit-car--spaceframe--cosworth/1140051

what are people thorts for 10k

Its your best bet. Custom engine mounts, put a bike engine in the front and run whatever diff and rear suspension is needed.

[Jizanthapus]

you chat alot of shit! not rilly alot of work

Oh rilly?

[AlexB]

you all piss off this i will be building my car and i dont give 2 fuck's who wants to slate me at the end of the day i will have the better car :)

I await to see your fabrication skills till we see who has the better car
And also i will put money on the fact youll get into this and realise its not simple at all

If you want to see a "proper" space frame build get on google put in engineered to slide and see the time and effort going into his truck

Iirc its around 4 years since he started that build

Youd be better off buying a full z cars rear end
And then bodging the front to accept an engine

Still awaits "how do i make gear linkages that work clutch systems that work wire 2 engines up here should i put my fuel tank how should i route exhaust" threads

[KamRacing]

I know someone making a full spaceframe. He's spent nearly a year working on CAD models where he could test the frame was structurally strong and also light, had all the correct weight distribution, brake sizing, engine positioning. Really its not a case of simply welding a few pipes together. He's still had to change the design as he meets problems that occur as he builds the chassis up. I have a Peugeot 309 rallycross full spaceframe shell. For the amount of cage it has its actually not that stiff. To the point where I'm very tempted to rip 80% of it out and start again. This is in a car that had a good 6 figure sum thrown at it in the 90's. I've got a proper motorsport engineer though here to build it.

[qrty]

What the OP dreams of....

http://i1.smotra.ru/data/img/galleries/13779/127176/sm_img-1054269_980x600.jpg

What will actually happen...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Uic_T-o3vsE/UCeB67lTthI/AAAAAAAAAJs/yLYuca3fLxQ/s1600/Homemade+Car.jpg

[Prickle]

FLOL, is that bottle the fuel tank!?

Seems legit

[qrty]

FLOL, is that bottle the fuel tank!?

Seems legit

Think so....

Garden chair seems legit too.

EPIC:BMW Thread if you have time...
(http://smotra.ru/users/cliff/blog/143795/)

[Kebabman]

That's a good thread. Gives some idea of the level of work involved. The image above plus the one below give a basic idea of just how much fabrication is involved. Let alone all the design and testing that should be done to get it to work properly. And that cage has nothing suspension or brake wise on it at that point either:

http://i2.smotra.ru/data/img/galleries/13779/127176/sm_img-1054258_980x600.jpg

[LSOfreak]

that bmw is such an epic build

would hate to think how much a project like that would cost... £100k?

[jay9119]

well all thanks for the vote of confidence. yes it will be hard work, yes i will have to do things over and over. i have already said i have some one who is experienced helping me. me working at powerflow will not teach me to build a space frame, but will help with bending pipe and welding. all the rest will come off the bloke helping me that i will be paying £150 per day and this is what he has built plus a few others http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj632/Master_Jay9119/5577_361098943998579_1330228545_n_zps14a3dc6d.jpg

[AlexB]

So you wont actually be building it then

[jay9119]

yes i will be helping bending welding ect but the main man will be doing all the fab work taking it up and il go over welding it ect. i have put 28 days to get the frame built to a standard of where i can finish it on my own

[GolfJay]

This thread is awesome!!

[Ross]

Jays on a little holiday for being abusive and then being abusive about the abuse... Please hold. Normal trolling should be resumed shortly. Well - a weeks time.

[MuZiZZle]

Powerflow!!!!!!

[KamRacing]

i thought powerflow didnt mandrel bend. With autocross I bet you can get away with a basic frame. The suspension is soft and loads are not transmitted through the chassis like a circuit car, but as this car needs to be faster than the police its going to need a dry day and slicks. Rigidity is therefore rather important. If the guy is simply building a frame without some major mathematical prepwork you may be disappointed with the end result though you may be distracted by the bike engines instead.

[Ross]

Just lol Kev. :D

[Rowan]

After reading the posts from the OP, even myself as a foreigner got vicarious shame from the way he rapes the English language.

And frankly I'm offended by the sheer ignorance of this person.

[axsaxoman]

removing all the crap from this thread
Ido not see why he is so wound up on using a bike engine --no torque when you could buy a right v8 lump for very little money -350+jag s/c v/8 go for around 1k--dump the eaton fit a rotrex and get 440+ and rwd --and run like std car .
surely if you gong to spend all the time to make space frame you want something that has GRUNT --not revs .
that coosie saxo kit projet is how it should be done --but not with a cossie --too expensive and old technology