What 5 things would you change about the UK?

[holdawayt]

This should be interesting on a forum like this...

5 things you'd change about the country if you could.


1. Completely change the way the benefits system works, help out the genuinely unemployed due to sickness/health/jobseeking
2. Completely revamp the criminal justice system which is the biggest joke going, too many young offenders who know they're untouchable by law
3. Increase driving standards or have similar rules to the motorcycle criteria.
4. Introduce more academic push at schools/colleges, scrap stupid courses and remove all of this 'do what you want to do, become a rapper' nonsense that youngsters are being fed these days.
5. Leave the EU


Your turn, have fun.

[stevo67]

Agree with all the points you`ve raised & i`ll add the following.

Stop giving aid to foreign countries,ban all pesticides that are sprayed on crops.Stop the unfair/cruel treatment of our soldiers when they come home badly injured & are denied benefits.When the price of oil comes down make sure its passed onto motorists at the petrol station.Stop the stupid laws that make it impossible to deport preachers of hate/terror suspects.

[Brettles1986]

Human rights relaxation of pricks who don't think of others human rights. E.g. Islamic extremists, rapists etc

Adopt the approach of limb removal for crimes, sounds extreme but I guarantee it will curb it.

Adopt a breeding control system for benefit claimants.

Ensure the people governing the country are not millionaires as these people are not realists.

Everyone to pm prickle.

[McGuire86]

Ensure the people governing the country are not millionaires as these people are not realists.



Nigel Farage is more or less a millionaire and he's one of the most 'realist' politicians in the houses of Parliament.

[L33h]

stop all the little wankers who arnt willing to work and scrounge dole money

and immigrants

[knight-22]

Holdawayt, Stevo.. you guys have got my vote. :drink:

Sorry for sort of ignoring the thread rules, but I guess I would maybe just add these onto yours..

-OAP's to retake driving tests.

-No more Police cuts, but have more officers on 'the streets' as to on the roads.

-Crack down on benefits so people can't just cruise through life without working, when they are perfectly able. Or have multiple children, just for the sake of obtaining more money.

-Up the minimum drinking age. (Sorry lads)

-First year drivers to have those tracker boxes fitted as non-optional, for a year.

Obviously wouldn't have been happy with the last two when I was younger, but I genuinely think it would be an improvement. Especially road safety wise, the number of clowns I see absolutely flying by me with 4/5 people in the car not realising how dangerous they're being.

[ThrushMotorsport]

1. Independence

2. Foreigners rejected from coming into country (this is one thing with independence)

3. Benefit system

4. Justice system, and for juveniles to be affected

That's it, can't wait for the 2014 referendum mainly due to salmond stating how he will stop immigration to Scotland, especially to that 50,000 Romanians waiting to come over here, polish people too.. But I don't mind them apart from when they can't speak a word of English

[holdawayt]

and immigrants

What about them?

[Tom5190]

1. Time limit on job seekers, ensure certain criteria are met every 2 months or something like that. i.e x amount of jobs applied for, x amount of volunteer work carried out.

2. Tax reduction on fuel.

3. Complete public smoking ban (only allowed to smoke at home)

4. Driving age raised to 18 & stricter testing system. Also a staged system as mentioned like bikes

5. Huge reform on immigration, points system needed for entry

[L33h]

stop as much as them coming over here. Some countrys say that if you have to pass through another country to get to their country then you're not aloud in. This is the way i think it should be. why travel half the way around the world to get here? cos its too easy

sound like a dick but i dont care lol

[TomT]

Some countrys say that if you have to pass through another country to get to their country then you're not aloud in.

Must be a pretty stupid country then huh?

[Jazz]

2. Foreigners rejected from coming into country (this is one thing with independence)


Love threads like these, it brings out the thick-end of the forum.

The immediate halting of immigration in the UK would cost every taxpayer approximiately £137,000 over their lifetime, costing the nation approx £18 billion over the next 5 years. Analysis of Office for Budget Responsibility recently revealed that the UK's net public sector debt would rise from 74% of GDP to 187% within the next 50 years – higher than Greece's current national debt of 161%. Then we are truly fucked.

[L33h]

whatever. sorry i forgot that the spelling police were about

[Carlvtr88]

This should be interesting on a forum like this...

5 things you'd change about the country if you could.


1. Completely change the way the benefits system works, help out the genuinely unemployed due to sickness/health/jobseeking
2. Completely revamp the criminal justice system which is the biggest joke going, too many young offenders who know they're untouchable by law
3. Increase driving standards or have similar rules to the motorcycle criteria.
4. Introduce more academic push at schools/colleges, scrap stupid courses and remove all of this 'do what you want to do, become a rapper' nonsense that youngsters are being fed these days.
5. Leave the EU


Your turn, have fun.

Nothing more to add tbh. Nailed it.

I'd like to move the Prime minister's house to a select area in Birmingham and then get them to tell me immigration isn't a problem.

[stevo67]

I`d like for the all the current ministers to live on a working class families income for a year & get their hands dirty.

[Carlvtr88]

I`d like for the all the current ministers to live on a working class families income for a year & get their hands dirty.

Agreed.

Or move from agency to agency and tell us " it's fair ".

[saxowebby]

1) benefits system for people who genuinely need it, not for drug addicts or people who just cba and immigrants
2) get us out of the e.u
3) stop giving foregin aid to other countries when we need it ourselves
4)criminal justice system needs sorting and to ban the human rights rule. (the moment you conmmit a crime you forfeit your human rights.
5) immigration, should treat uk like Australia - need a trade to enter, and stop people entering who have criminal records

[McGuire86]

I wonder how many people in this thread with their views actually vote. It's all very well saying you're sick of this or you want that but if you don't actually contribute to how you will be governed for the next few years then your opinion isn't really warranted.

[Viper]

stop as much as them coming over here. Some countrys say that if you have to pass through another country to get to their country then you're not aloud in. This is the way i think it should be. why travel half the way around the world to get here? cos its too easy

sound like a dick but i dont care lol

whatever. sorry i forgot that the spelling police were about

It's funny that some of the people that have come from another country know your own language better than you do.

[JamesR]

At least try and keep it down to a heated debate and not full blown arguing / name calling. Play nice or it'll be locked.

[Rod1]

I pretty much second saxowebby

[EwynSaxo]

Personally I think the NHS needs a reform if you got a cold or something you gotta pay for your prescription
Obviously if your terminally ill then you get treatment but I think we should all pay insurance to cover ourselves I know we pay for the NHS with our taxes but some people just take the biscuit
Road tax should go by the weight of the automobile
Every house should have some sort of renewable energy e.g solar or wind ect. . .
Drink age limit should be set higher or completely do away with alcohol it's a shit drug anyways
Stop gm crops altogether ( I watched a program saying that a apple of today you'd have to eat 5 to get the nutrition of one 20 year's ago . .

[Davyy]

I agree with the majority on here, but immigration completely halted is a bit ott.

You would have barely any indian fast food, chinese etc etc :(

However, I think there should be a rule such as foreigners must have a job within x amount of time or they get kicked out, they need to contribute to the country not just sponge from it.

[0rang3peel]

I'd change the weather

[EwynSaxo]

I'd change the weather

Amen

Lush sun all weekend and yesterday and now it's raining

[ThrushMotorsport]

Love threads like these, it brings out the thick-end of the forum.

The immediate halting of immigration in the UK would cost every taxpayer approximiately £137,000 over their lifetime, costing the nation approx £18 billion over the next 5 years. Analysis of Office for Budget Responsibility recently revealed that the UK's net public sector debt would rise from 74% of GDP to 187% within the next 50 years – higher than Greece's current national debt of 161%. Then we are truly fucked.

You must be retarded.

That is a prediction, not a fact.

Foreigners over here can claim for fammilies living back home, I.e 4 kids and a wife, whilst for about average 1-1.5 years paying no contribution to the national benifits, and keep it going once they do contribute, that's a massive loss of economical growth when you have 50,000 more people waiting to do this, there from a poor background, so nearly all of them are gona have kids, if that's only 1 kid per 50,000, that's 50k kids, say £80 pcm, then that's 5,000,000 at just £10 each month, so that would equal to 45 million a month

Racist bile and dribble removed

The ammount of people off work or unemployed would decrease, as there's more jobs to be filled by that void of what? 1.5 million under 25's out of work?

Jobseekers allowance just re-circles into the economy, it dosent attribute to it.

[Saxoladlesta]

coming over in pack of 20's and buying a shop, live your life.. But fuck me, this country needs to say no for once.


So they buy a shop and make a living and contribute to the economy and that makes you angry?

Bell end.

[Gandi699]

I love these threads, easy way to identify who the racist and stupid fucks are

[0rang3peel]

You must be retarded.

That is a prediction, not a fact.

Foreigners over here can claim for fammilies living back home, I.e 4 kids and a wife, whilst for about average 1-1.5 years paying no contribution to the national benifits, and keep it going once they do contribute, that's a massive loss of economical growth when you have 50,000 more people waiting to do this, there from a poor background, so nearly all of them are gona have kids, if that's only 1 kid per 50,000, that's 50k kids, say £80 pcm, then that's 5,000,000 at just £10 each month, so that would equal to 45 million a month

Racist bile and dribble removed


The ammount of people off work or unemployed would decrease, as there's more jobs to be filled by that void of what? 1.5 million under 25's out of work?

Jobseekers allowance just re-circles into the economy, it dosent attribute to it.


Where have you seen this? Because it sounds like total shit.

All you've just posted is an illiterate racist ramble.

[Saxoladlesta]

Where have you seen this? Because it sounds like total shit.

All you've just posted is an illiterate racist ramble.

He read it in the Daily Mail and/or The Sun

[Carl-h]

With the immigration thing, I do think it needs control but to stop it all together isn't the best idea. If it was up to me I'd stop all benefits/grants/free money for immigrants until they have been paying into the system for 7 years maybe?

Wouldn't stop the people generally looking for work and wanting to make money, would stop the ones coming here for an easy ride.

I agree the test needs to be more difficult. I don't think lower age limits and power/engine size limits are needed if people were properly trained in the first place. I think it's Finland where part if the test is on a skid pan? 90% of the country's population would have no idea what to do if their car lost control. Most don't know what under steer and over steer are, never mind the difference so how can they be expected to correct it if they lose control? Obviously lots of people wouldn't be able to pass the test so wouldn't be able to drive and they wouldn't be very happy about it. The way I see it though driving is a privilege so if you weren't up to a high enough standard tough shit.

[Gandi699]

a ban on modified cars of all types and all modifications. No car can go over 25 mph

[stevo67]

Love threads like these, it brings out the thick-end of the forum.

The immediate halting of immigration in the UK would cost every taxpayer approximiately £137,000 over their lifetime, costing the nation approx £18 billion over the next 5 years. Analysis of Office for Budget Responsibility recently revealed that the UK's net public sector debt would rise from 74% of GDP to 187% within the next 50 years – higher than Greece's current national debt of 161%. Then we are truly fucked.

So for every immigrant doing a job in the uk,that equals a british born person without a job.Its not racist but a fact,thats a hospital bed taken a school place taken a house taken the list goes on.

[Carl-h]

So for every immigrant doing a job in the uk,that equals a british born person without a job.Its not racist but a fact,thats a hospital bed taken a school place taken a house taken the list goes on.

What about the business the immigrant builds? Creating jobs for other people?

[0rang3peel]

So for every immigrant doing a job in the uk,that equals a british born person without a job.Its not racist but a fact,thats a hospital bed taken a school place taken a house taken the list goes on.

There's loads of jobs to go around, the majority of British citizens won't do the jobs!

it's a bed taken and a school position taken, but they pay taxes and ni but you think tit's unfair they get these things?

[Saxoladlesta]

So for every immigrant doing a job in the uk,that equals a british born person without a job.Its not racist but a fact,thats a hospital bed taken a school place taken a house taken the list goes on.

Of course it's racist. I forget that every British born person actually wants a job but the nasty immigrants have taken them all.

[holdawayt]

The way I see it, if an immigrant wants to come over here and "take our jobs" then good for him.
He will most likely work harder than any brit in a similar pay situation would work, as he is from a country where if you're lazy - you're dead.

He's also willing to work for much less, meaning that the company can thrive which will help the economy.

While I agree that mass imigration is an issue in the UK, the far bigger problem is that Brits are lazy and will refuse to work if they think they're better than the job. This could partly be due to schools teaching us that we can do what ever we like, that flipping burgers is a bad thing, and that bin men should be paid poorly.

There isn't any shame being on the dole any more, it used to be embarrassing. It absolutely riles me. And yet people find it odd when people from other countries want to do these so called "scummy jobs".

[Heliosphan]

Love threads like these, it brings out the thick-end of the forum.

The immediate halting of immigration in the UK would cost every taxpayer approximiately £137,000 over their lifetime, costing the nation approx £18 billion over the next 5 years. Analysis of Office for Budget Responsibility recently revealed that the UK's net public sector debt would rise from 74% of GDP to 187% within the next 50 years – higher than Greece's current national debt of 161%. Then we are truly fucked.

Good 'cut & paste' job there although I noticed that you omitted the part which tells you who came up with the figures. These figures were put together by a pro-migration lobby group called Migration Matters who are a commercially backed enterprise mainly consisting of woolly-headed liberal types and other people who stand to gain from economic migration. I think it's noteworthy that the only newspapers who ran the story (to my knowledge) are the Guardian, a horrendously left-leaning paper and the Independent who claim to be politically neutral but in practice are far from it.

Regardless of what I think, lets see what the OBR actually have to say:

3.72 The migration scenarios illustrate that higher net migration reduces upward*pressure on debt over our projection horizon. Inward migrants are assumed in the ONS projections to be more concentrated in working age than the population in general. So higher inward migration would tend to increase tax receipts and not add much to age-related spending pressures, even whilst allowing for an increase in GDP from extra employment.* However, it should be borne in mind that when the inward migrants retire from the workforce, those that remain in the UK will push up spending more than they increase revenues, and even if they*leave the UK most will still be entitled to UK state pension payments.*So higher migration could be seen as delaying some of the fiscal challenges of an ageing population rather than a way of avoiding them.*

3.73 The ‘young age structure’ scenario combines a high migration assumption with lower life expectancy and higher fertility to yield a larger working-age population.*However, the increase in the number of children adds to education costs,*resulting in slightly higher spending up to 2040-41 and thus higher public sector net debt compared to the high migration scenario alone.

Or how about a House Of Lords report...

Immigration has become highly significant to the UK economy: immigrants comprise 12% of the total workforce—and a much higher proportion in London. However, we have found no evidence for the argument, made by the Government, business and many others, that net immigration—immigration minus emigration—generates significant economic benefits for the existing UK population.*We do not support the general claims that net immigration is indispensable to fill labour and skills shortages. Such claims are analytically weak and provide insufficient reason for promoting net immigration.


Interesting.

[ThrushMotorsport]

I like how some of you think I'm lying about foreigners can claim for their kids and wife who aren't in the country, many you should look into it, it's a partnership the government setup about 5 years ago, and there making ALLOT more money abusing this system than those who work hard for their earnings.

Regarding the shop comment, no I don't really care that much, but how many shops up here are You banned from because your not their ethnic or nationality? Up here you get kicked out the shop by most polish shopkeepers, due to the fact your not polish.. Therefor you ain't welcome.

I'm not really caring to argue, but some of you have no clue of what benefits foreigners are entitled to, and there entitled to them before they even arrive here, that's what pisses me off.

[holdawayt]

I like how some of you think I'm lying about foreigners can claim for their kids and wife who aren't in the country, many you should look into it, it's a partnership the government setup about 5 years ago, and there making ALLOT more money abusing this system than those who work hard for their earnings.

Regarding the shop comment, no I don't really care that much, but how many shops up here are You banned from because your not their ethnic or nationality? Up here you get kicked out the shop by most polish shopkeepers, due to the fact your not polish.. Therefor you ain't welcome.

I'm not really caring to argue, but some of you have no clue of what benefits foreigners are entitled to, and there entitled to them before they even arrive here, that's what pisses me off.


So you walk into a Polish shop and they instantly kick you out because you're british? Pull the other one, it's probably because of your attitude towards them. They wouldn't be in business if that's how they operated.

[0rang3peel]

I like how some of you think I'm lying about foreigners can claim for their kids and wife who aren't in the country, many you should look into it, it's a partnership the government setup about 5 years ago, and there making ALLOT more money abusing this system than those who work hard for their earnings.

Regarding the shop comment, no I don't really care that much, but how many shops up here are You banned from because your not their ethnic or nationality? Up here you get kicked out the shop by most polish shopkeepers, due to the fact your not polish.. Therefor you ain't welcome.

I'm not really caring to argue, but some of you have no clue of what benefits foreigners are entitled to, and there entitled to them before they even arrive here, that's what pisses me off.

You're not doing much to convince us about this 'government partnership scheme' that allows migrants to claim for benefits for their family in their homeland.

Where have you seen it or heard about it? I'd love to see some actual proof that this really exists because I've got a few mates who could become a shitload richer.

[Ashleyp]

This should be interesting on a forum like this...

5 things you'd change about the country if you could.


1. Completely change the way the benefits system works, help out the genuinely unemployed due to sickness/health/jobseeking
2. Completely revamp the criminal justice system which is the biggest joke going, too many young offenders who know they're untouchable by law
3. Increase driving standards or have similar rules to the motorcycle criteria.
4. Introduce more academic push at schools/colleges, scrap stupid courses and remove all of this 'do what you want to do, become a rapper' nonsense that youngsters are being fed these days.
5. Leave the EU


Your turn, have fun.

+1 to that.

Probs wouldn't leave the EU, but pull a lot further away from them.

PS: Thrushmotorsport is an idiot; the best students in the country are Chinese. The Chinese and the Indian population of the UK make up a large percentage of doctors etc, I'd rather have them than pikeys sitting around all day with their highest aim in life being on the Jeremy Kyle show.

[ThrushMotorsport]

So you walk into a Polish shop and they instantly kick you out because you're british? Pull the other one, it's probably because of your attitude towards them. They wouldn't be in business if that's how they operated.

You really don't understand, do you? This is a reason why allot of us have problems with them being over here, some of them won't serve you if your British, wake up to reality and see that even though they are in our country, they don't all stay here to serve the residents here.

Look it up, it's a common problem in scotland.

[Ashleyp]

Oh actually, I'd probably aim to stop as much purchasing for things like apartment blocks etc, which in London at least are often bought by foreign investors, thus the UK economy rarely sees any money from it.

Nothing against foreigners, they're just doing good business. My gripe is with the government allowing FDI to take money away from our economy.

[ThrushMotorsport]

You're not doing much to convince us about this 'government partnership scheme' that allows migrants to claim for benefits for their family in their homeland.

Where have you seen it or heard about it? I'd love to see some actual proof that this really exists because I've got a few mates who could become a shitload richer.


http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/childbenefit/ch5_notes.pdf

Read it, states you CAN claim child benifit for your kids not in the country.

The Polish partnership that was setup entitles EVERY polish person to claim this for each kid they have regardless of being in the country or not.

I know this for a fact, and I'm not wrong so I don't really need to prove it, so I'm finished in this thread, it just seems some of you are blightened from what people can claim and have no idea about it, there's allot more than this they are entitled to.

[Gandi699]

What's getting irate about it going to do? You can't change what's happening

[McGuire86]

What's getting irate about it going to do? You can't change what's happening

If you're not happy with how you're governed, then vote for a party who's policies suit you.

[Chris_O]

^ As above, every little helps. Mr Farage had my vote anyway.

[holdawayt]

You really don't understand, do you? This is a reason why allot of us have problems with them being over here, some of them won't serve you if your British, wake up to reality and see that even though they are in our country, they don't all stay here to serve the residents here.

Look it up, it's a common problem in scotland.

I think you've missed my point but I'll play along. Have a look where I live, probably one of the most ethnicly mixed areas in the country. We have whole communities that actually look like an Indian market. It's great!

Now never have I been approached or refused service because I'm british. I have however witnessed disgusting behaviour towards these people from british nationals.

I'm not blind to it, I know that they're not all perfect. But I'd much sooner blame our own people for their racist, stubborn and lazy outlooks on life before I raised an issue with foreigners coming over here to work.

The select few who come over for the free benefits can do one too. But that's not what we're discussing. If you think I'm the one who needs educating, just look at the responses to my posts compared with yours. I'm not the one with the problem here.

[McGuire86]

^ As above, every little helps. Mr Farage had my vote anyway.

And mine :y:

[stevo67]

Of course it's racist. I forget that every British born person actually wants a job but the nasty immigrants have taken them all.

Yeah by undercutting us & excepting a barely liveable wage employers laugh they`re heads off & employ eastern europeans over british people.People forget british people have fought over the years to get these rights only to see them eroded.Most of europe would be a 3rd reich state if it wasn`t for us & the yanks helping them out in the 2nd world war.This is a fact to many times the lines between being a racist & being patriotic get blurred.

[GC_Belfast]

1. Raise Drinking age to 21.
2. Enforce stricter driving licence policies, staged licensing similar to a motorbike licence.
3. People who are long term unemployed (ie chavy cunts who go on the bru right away after leaving school) lose the right to vote, free health care etc. They provide nothing to the country, why should they get back from it?
4. Punish law breakers according to the crimes committed, no more suspended sentences or 1-2 months for gbh etc, and strip prisons of all luxuries.
5. Reduce the influence that the EU has on the UK, fishing, immigration quotas etc.

[Jazz]

You must be retarded.

That is a prediction, not a fact.

Foreigners over here can claim for fammilies living back home, I.e 4 kids and a wife, whilst for about average 1-1.5 years paying no contribution to the national benifits, and keep it going once they do contribute, that's a massive loss of economical growth when you have 50,000 more people waiting to do this, there from a poor background, so nearly all of them are gona have kids, if that's only 1 kid per 50,000, that's 50k kids, say £80 pcm, then that's 5,000,000 at just £10 each month, so that would equal to 45 million a month

Racist bile and dribble removed

The ammount of people off work or unemployed would decrease, as there's more jobs to be filled by that void of what? 1.5 million under 25's out of work?

Jobseekers allowance just re-circles into the economy, it dosent attribute to it.



The problem is, sadly there are quite a few very dumb-witted people kicking about at the moment who actually think what you have just said makes any sense. Which by the way, it doesn't.

You are totally ignoring the professional personal that come from overseas and contibute to the UK's various industries.

Many top surgeons and doctors right now are highly qualified experts from overseas. They are, in cases, the best in the world at what they do.

Your comment was put bluntly, "foreigners shouldn't be allowed in" or words to that effect.

What about the new head of the Bank of England, Canadian Mark Carney, shall we boot him out too? We have brought him in to sort out or mess, he seems the best qualified to do so. Should we not get the best people we can do these specialist jobs which require only the best? I couldn't give a damn if they are from the UK, USA, Canada, Nigeria, Iraq or the fucking moon, if they are what we need then pull up a seat.

You disregard creditable predictions like they are nothing. Again, only showing your ignorance. If more people looked at the effects what we do today will have on tomorrow, maybe these double-dip recessions would't be so common.

Another problem we will have is the ageing population, the effects aren't really felt now but they will be. Another recent analysis showed that with a population of 74.5m, in 2050 the UK will require a workforce of 35.4m to meet demand. However, will a pool of just 45.1m people (60.5% of the population) forecast to the eligible to work in 2050, even, an ageing population will leave the UK with only 32.3m people in employment – 3.1m short of the 35.4m required to meet demand.

Bottom line is we need overseas workers. People saying that "immigration should be stopped period" don't have a bloody clue. It has become the default uneducated response for low-life idiots who are too lazy to make their CV presentable enough to get a job and so they need somebody to blame.

I'm not saying immigration is not a problem at all- I do think the controls need to be re-addressed and better management needs to be implemented, but people really need to step back and see the bigger picture.

[Jazz]

Good 'cut & paste' job there although I noticed that you omitted the part which tells you who came up with the figures. These figures were put together by a pro-migration lobby group called Migration Matters who are a commercially backed enterprise mainly consisting of woolly-headed liberal types and other people who stand to gain from economic migration. I think it's noteworthy that the only newspapers who ran the story (to my knowledge) are the Guardian, a horrendously left-leaning paper and the Independent who claim to be politically neutral but in practice are far from it.

Regardless of what I think, lets see what the OBR actually have to say:

3.72 The migration scenarios illustrate that higher net migration reduces upward*pressure on debt over our projection horizon. Inward migrants are assumed in the ONS projections to be more concentrated in working age than the population in general. So higher inward migration would tend to increase tax receipts and not add much to age-related spending pressures, even whilst allowing for an increase in GDP from extra employment.* However, it should be borne in mind that when the inward migrants retire from the workforce, those that remain in the UK will push up spending more than they increase revenues, and even if they*leave the UK most will still be entitled to UK state pension payments.*So higher migration could be seen as delaying some of the fiscal challenges of an ageing population rather than a way of avoiding them.*

3.73 The ‘young age structure’ scenario combines a high migration assumption with lower life expectancy and higher fertility to yield a larger working-age population.*However, the increase in the number of children adds to education costs,*resulting in slightly higher spending up to 2040-41 and thus higher public sector net debt compared to the high migration scenario alone.

Or how about a House Of Lords report...

Immigration has become highly significant to the UK economy: immigrants comprise 12% of the total workforce—and a much higher proportion in London. However, we have found no evidence for the argument, made by the Government, business and many others, that net immigration—immigration minus emigration—generates significant economic benefits for the existing UK population.*We do not support the general claims that net immigration is indispensable to fill labour and skills shortages. Such claims are analytically weak and provide insufficient reason for promoting net immigration.


Interesting.



Re-read the part I was attacking- I was refering to the comment that immigration should be stopped, period.

And I know that you, Heliosphan, are not daft enough to agree with that.

[Ashleyp]

Yeah by undercutting us & excepting a barely liveable wage employers laugh they`re heads off & employ eastern europeans over british people.People forget british people have fought over the years to get these rights only to see them eroded.Most of europe would be a 3rd reich state if it wasn`t for us & the yanks helping them out in the 2nd world war.This is a fact to many times the lines between being a racist & being patriotic get blurred.

Don't blame the foreign people for being happy to work for less.

that's the companies fault, and the governments for allowing it...

Bringing the war and "we saved you" approach into it is pathetic.

[Saxoladlesta]

.Most of europe would be a 3rd reich state if it wasn`t for us & the yanks helping them out in the 2nd world war.This is a fact to many times the lines between being a racist & being patriotic get blurred.

Just to inform you, when "Britain" went to war it wasn't just white men who were born in Britain who fought for us. Ever heard of the British Indian army? Do some research before you talk about being a patriot.

[Heliosphan]

Re-read the part I was attacking- I was refering to the comment that immigration should be stopped, period.

And I know that you, Heliosphan, are not daft enough to agree with that.

Of course not, the debate should be around what level and type of immigration is required.

I posted what I did in order to apply balance alongside a report that I didn't like the sound of, mainly because it comes across as pure hyperbole and makes absolutely no acknowledgment of some of the issues that large-scale immigration brings. I mean, how are these figures even arrived at or is this just an example of a left-wing think-tank fueling certain sections of the media who will be only too willing to lap it up whether the figures are accurate or not?

Furthermore, given that we know a complete halt to immigration isn't going to happen, the main purpose of the report is purely incendiary. In other words, the objective is to garner a thought process that says immigration on its current scale is desirable and anything less is not so desirable.

[Jazz]

Of course not, the debate should be around what level and type of immigration is required.

I posted what I did in order to apply balance alongside a report that I didn't like the sound of, mainly because it comes across as pure hyperbole and makes absolutely no acknowledgment of some of the issues that large-scale immigration brings. I mean, how are these figures even arrived at or is this just an example of a left-wing think-tank fueling certain sections of the media who will be only too willing to lap it up whether the figures are accurate or not?

Furthermore, given that we know a complete halt to immigration isn't going to happen, the main purpose of the report is purely incendiary. In other words, the objective is to garner a thought process that says immigration on its current scale is desirable and anything less is not so desirable.

I don't think anybody is going to deny that it is an issue that needs addressing- of course it is. I didn't get that impression from the report at all.

It just seems that immigration is the new target in the modern witch-hunt to find reasons as to why our country is economically suffering, when in reality these people are quick to ignore the real need for specialist and skilled migrant workers from other countries.

[stevo67]

Just to inform you, when "Britain" went to war it wasn't just white men who were born in Britain who fought for us. Ever heard of the British Indian army? Do some research before you talk about being a patriot.

I`m well aware of this no need for a history lesson.

[stevo67]

I don't think anybody is going to deny that it is an issue that needs addressing- of course it is. I didn't get that impression from the report at all.

It just seems that immigration is the new target in the modern witch-hunt to find reasons as to why our country is economically suffering, when in reality these people are quick to ignore the real need for specialist and skilled migrant workers from other countries.

This is a sad reflection that we need to bring to in foreign skilled labour,it boils down to a lack of investment in our young people.

[0rang3peel]

it just seems that immigration is the new target in the modern witch-hunt to find reasons as to why our country is economically suffering,

thats the bingo

[Jazz]

thats the bingo

http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/664912.jpg

[Saxovch22]

It is true about the polish being able to claim benefits for there children back in Poland.

Polish boy who used to work with me was doing it.
He was a hard worker to start with until another ex workmate who was a lazy prick told him how he could basically get loads of benefits for nothing

[9mm]

5) immigration, should treat uk like Australia - need a trade to enter, and stop people entering who have criminal records

i deffo agree with this somthing needs to be done, i think soon when it gets too overcrowded iam going to move to ozzy or america...:y:

[Viper]

thats the bingo

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx8o872DTF1qztvqfo1_500.gif

[jpsaxo]

1. Weather
2. Economy
3. Class system
4. Ridiculous benefit system
5. Attitude to life

[Ryancoyle]

- Get OAP's to re-take there driving tests after 60 as most of them are shocking at driving.
- stop benefits altogether( if not, people who are on benefits should have to do community work as most are just lazy as fuck)
- Make the criminal system more strict - people are literally getting away with murder now of days
- Stop immigrants from coming into the county (most are just sponging of the benefits systems)
- Government - they are all useless pricks who just think about themselves and how much money they can earn instead of worrying about hard working people

[stevo67]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx8o872DTF1qztvqfo1_500.gif

Easy to stereotype & label people a racist for wanting a better society for everyone.I have friends who are asians does that make me a racist?

[haz_pro]

Easy to stereotype & label people a racist for wanting a better society for everyone.I have friends who are asians does that make me a racist?

Having friends that are Asian doesn't make you racist, what sort of idiotic question is that?

[stevo67]

Having friends that are Asian doesn't make you racist, what sort of idiotic question is that?

I`m trying to see where viper is coming from,if I was racist I wouldn`t have anything to do with other races or make a racist statements,which none of my previous comments are racially motivated they are based on economic facts,:y::drink:

[holdawayt]

Easy to stereotype & label people a racist for wanting a better society for everyone.I have friends who are asians does that make me a racist?

Why are you quoting that picture that tom put up? It has nothing to do with anything??

[holdawayt]

- Get OAP's to re-take there driving tests after 60 as most of them are shocking at driving.
- stop benefits altogether( if not, people who are on benefits should have to do community work as most are just lazy as fuck)
- Make the criminal system more strict - people are literally getting away with murder now of days
- Stop immigrants from coming into the county (most are just sponging of the benefits systems)
- Government - they are all useless pricks who just think about themselves and how much money they can earn instead of worrying about hard working people

Looks like we need to ramp up the education system too.

[stevo67]

Why are you quoting that picture that tom put up? It has nothing to do with anything??

O`h it has everything to do with what this thread has turned into,labelling people racist & then putting a pic up of a nazi.

[holdawayt]

Lol you fool. It's from Inglorious Bastards when he says "it's a bingo". Referring to Dave's post above.

[stevo67]

Lol you fool. It's from Inglorious Bastards when he says "it's a bingo". Referring to Dave's post above.

Ok I was quick to jump mate lol.:y::drink:

[0rang3peel]

Easy to stereotype & label people a racist for wanting a better society for everyone.I have friends who are asians does that make me a racist?

I think you got the wrong end of the stick, he put up that picture because I said

"thats the bingo"

which is from Hans Landa... that picture is hans landa.

:wall:

edit tom beat me to it

[stevo67]

I think you got the wrong end of the stick, he put up that picture because I said

"thats the bingo"

which is from Hans Landa... that picture is hans landa.

:wall:

edit tom beat me to it

Yes I did mate.:y:

[Stissy]

This should be interesting on a forum like this...

5 things you'd change about the country if you could.


1. Completely change the way the benefits system works, help out the genuinely unemployed due to sickness/health/jobseeking
2. Completely revamp the criminal justice system which is the biggest joke going, too many young offenders who know they're untouchable by law
3. Increase driving standards or have similar rules to the motorcycle criteria.
4. Introduce more academic push at schools/colleges, scrap stupid courses and remove all of this 'do what you want to do, become a rapper' nonsense that youngsters are being fed these days.
5. Leave the EU


Your turn, have fun.

1. If there's one thing i hate, its people on the dole. I propose a system in which, if you're on the dole, you have 6 months to get a job. Failure to get a job means you join the army, front line. literally you're given a gun and you're going to afghan. you earn your money. not sit around and take it.

Leaving the EU is a ridiculous idea. think of it in terms of economic stability.

Holdawayt, Stevo.. you guys have got my vote. :drink:

Sorry for sort of ignoring the thread rules, but I guess I would maybe just add these onto yours..

-OAP's to retake driving tests.

-No more Police cuts, but have more officers on 'the streets' as to on the roads.

-Crack down on benefits so people can't just cruise through life without working, when they are perfectly able. Or have multiple children, just for the sake of obtaining more money.

-Up the minimum drinking age. (Sorry lads)

-First year drivers to have those tracker boxes fitted as non-optional, for a year.

Obviously wouldn't have been happy with the last two when I was younger, but I genuinely think it would be an improvement. Especially road safety wise, the number of clowns I see absolutely flying by me with 4/5 people in the car not realising how dangerous they're being.

Up the minimum drinking age, couldn't agree more. It'll stop all the 18 year old girls in walkabout on a friday night taking pictures of cocktails and all the 18 year old lads who think they're out, so they need to fight something.

1. Time limit on job seekers, ensure certain criteria are met every 2 months or something like that. i.e x amount of jobs applied for, x amount of volunteer work carried out.

2. Tax reduction on fuel.

3. Complete public smoking ban (only allowed to smoke at home)

4. Driving age raised to 18 & stricter testing system. Also a staged system as mentioned like bikes

5. Huge reform on immigration, points system needed for entry

Smoking ban? what the fuck? haha.

stop as much as them coming over here. Some countrys say that if you have to pass through another country to get to their country then you're not aloud in. This is the way i think it should be. why travel half the way around the world to get here? cos its too easy

sound like a dick but i dont care lol

yes.

whatever. sorry i forgot that the spelling police were about

My number 1 would be:
1. stop being online pretending to be inteligent by correcting other peoples spelling

1) benefits system for people who genuinely need it, not for drug addicts or people who just cba and immigrants
2) get us out of the e.u
3) stop giving foregin aid to other countries when we need it ourselves
4)criminal justice system needs sorting and to ban the human rights rule. (the moment you conmmit a crime you forfeit your human rights.
5) immigration, should treat uk like Australia - need a trade to enter, and stop people entering who have criminal records

you have a narrow mind. but i do agree with a lot of this.

I agree with the majority on here, but immigration completely halted is a bit ott.

You would have barely any indian fast food, chinese etc etc :(

However, I think there should be a rule such as foreigners must have a job within x amount of time or they get kicked out, they need to contribute to the country not just sponge from it.

See above. 6 months, join the army.

i deffo agree with this somthing needs to be done, i think soon when it gets too overcrowded iam going to move to ozzy or america...:y:

just out of interest, why?

[Gandi699]

So what age should the minimum drinking age be?

I'd be up for the introduction breeding license, if you dont pass the test you dont have kids. Break the rules, enforced sterilization

wonder who'll bite to the above

[Stissy]

So what age should the minimum drinking age be?

I'd be up for the introduction breeding license, if you dont pass the test you dont have kids. Break the rules, enforced sterilization

21. either that or have 21+ bars.

when i was 18 i did exactly the same though. you're not used to drinking and you're still quite young and naive. the amount of times i went out and acted like a twat: got into fights, sick everywhere, argued with people over stupid things, stole things, broke into places. me and my friends were all like it.

[Ryancoyle]

21. either that or have 21+ bars.

when i was 18 i did exactly the same though. you're not used to drinking and you're still quite young and naive. the amount of times i went out and acted like a twat: got into fights, sick everywhere, argued with people over stupid things, stole things, broke into places. me and my friends were all like it.

Well if you cannot handle your drink at 18 you shouldn't be drinking at all.

I drunk when I was 18 but didn't act a complete thug like you.

Just depends who you are really.

[Gandi699]

21 isnt much different though to 18 in my eyes though, people can still be naive then if they arent used to alcohol.
That said I didnt do all the things you mentioned when I was 18.

Whats more is, lets say you cant drink or smoke etc at 18 but you can bring a child into the world at 16? to me thats ludicrous

[manta]

21 isnt much different though to 18 in my eyes though, people can still be naive then if they arent used to alcohol.
That said I didnt do all the things you mentioned when I was 18.

Whats more is, lets say you cant drink or smoke etc at 18 but you can bring a child into the world at 16? to me thats ludicrous

Yeah, the sex age being 16 is ridiculous, shouldn't be legal until you're 18, saying that though you should be at least 21by law to have a kiddy.

[Gandi699]

i'd go as far to say 25 absolute minimum and you must have a stable job/income

[nicole_]

i'd go as far to say 25 absolute minimum and you must have a stable job/income

you can have a stable job/income at 16..
i had my little one at 19 and i'm in a better situation than some parents double my age.


i'd change the housing situation, just started a new job for collecting arrears at a housing association and the way things work is ridiculous, dont pay your rent and nothing happens, continue to do it and we might kick you out after you've really racked up a large rent bill, but we'll probably just re-house you anyway as now you're homeless :wall:

i also like the no smoking in public places thing, i hate walking down the street and having to walk through clouds of smoke or people standing next to my child smoking in bus stops etc

[haz_pro]

There are a lot of arbitrary numbers being used here. Is there any factual backing behind them?

18 is a fine age to drink IMO; just because there are some idiots like in this thread who got too pissed and done thuggish acts shouldn't impact on others.

If drink makes you a violent person then you should have the sense to stop drinking. I think a lot of the time people who say drink makes them violent are usually violent any way, they just don't have the bottle to follow it through.

Also raising the age of sex to 18 seems ridiculous. Why should a consensual pair be stopped from having legal sex just because they are not adults. To be honest having a legal age for sex is never going to stop younger teenagers doing it. There needs to be an increase in sex education, rather than trying to tell teenagers yet another thing they can't do, which they will inherently rebel against.

EDIT: Things I would change are as follows:-

1. Stricter jail sentences. - I was burgled a couple of years ago and they lad got 50 hours community service. This was after stealing around £6000 worth of goods from myself and my neighbors.

2. Changing the motorcycle test structure back to mod1 and mod2. - The new test is ridiculous, simple as that.

3. Have some form of financial education as a compulsory subject in high school. - There are so many people who just don't understand how money works, and I believe this would help.

4. Stricter rules on immigration. - I am unsure of the ins and outs about our obligations as a member of the EU; I personally like that I can travel and reside all around Europe. I however have a problem with the number of immigrants who gain entry and claim benefits for long periods of time without having ever given anything back. I think having a system like that of Canada or Australia would be grand, ensuring that people who gain entry are going to be of value to the UK.

I can't think of a fifth for now, maybe later.

[Manu]

1. Put a cap on those child benefits, I heard enough stories of kids who don't give a flying fuck about school because they know they can breed and be entitled money and a council flat because of their mini-mes. Kids having kids.

2. recession my ass, the new figures suggest it was all made up. Throw them bankers and their political chums in prison

3. Probe all those corporate cunts, horse beef tescos, ripoff insurance companies, tax avoiding vodafone/starcunts/amazon etc.

4. Fix the fucking potholes, why should I pay that much for the privilege of damaging my vehicle on fucking lunar surfaces.

5. More police on the roads to enforce their joke of a law. They want to double the phone while you drive fine. Fuck me if anything is going to happen if there's no one to catch the culprits. That also applies to speeders, drink/drug drivers/sheddy east european trucks/MOT fail barry car drivers/ drivers with no insurance etc



Regarding the shop comment, no I don't really care that much, but how many shops up here are You banned from because your not their ethnic or nationality? Up here you get kicked out the shop by most polish shopkeepers, due to the fact your not polish.. Therefor you ain't welcome.

I met quite a few polish people. I know I can pop up any time, and I'll be welcomed with a meal but also offered shelter should I need it. In my experience they're lovely folk.

Can of worms on the immigration bit. They should put in place a system like in France where you have to prove that you can speak the language. My mum had to teach, or rather was sent (council) to teach some rome people: their attitude was to sit back and fold their arms. "No, me no english, me no want learn". Not sure how you're going to find a job, keep a job and provide for yourself with that sort of attitude. These are the ones who deserve to be sent back to wherever they came from.

On the other hand, my dentist is Indian, she speaks perfect English and is a very educated person, very caring for her patients and always provided top health care etc.

[9mm]

just out of interest, why?

Because it feels this country is going down the shitter and feels like i am being pushed out, i am 100% english and feels that i come second, with everything. I feel like a fresh start and maybe have the american dream as in this country it looks like i will never be able to own a house or land... i dont find it fair this is only a small county, and come jan 2014 will be over run with robbing romanians, it feels like this goverment is too soft and are letting themselves being treated like a door mat. I dont want to be in a country where the native tongue is getting rarer and rarer.

[0rang3peel]

If you up the drinking age you're going to fuck up the pub trade even more than it already is causing a lot of closures and plenty more unemployment pubs are already doomed as it is. This isn't even taking into consideration supermarket sales where no doubt the money that gets lost on tax would come from somewhere else..

This is Britain, the land of the humble boozer changing to similar booze laws as the states would be awful, the laws are 18 at the moment and it doesn't stop all the 16 year olds drinking in the streets so I can't see how 21 is going to make a difference.

If you can drive a car at 70mph on a motorway at 17 safely, you should have the self control to drink a beer in a pub at 18.

[Gandi699]

you can have a stable job/income at 16..
i had my little one at 19 and i'm in a better situation than some parents double my age.




but you are minority in that respect are you not?

[0rang3peel]

Because it feels this country is going down the shitter and feels like i am being pushed out, i am 100% english and feels that i come second, with everything. I feel like a fresh start and maybe have the american dream as in this country it looks like i will never be able to own a house or land... i dont find it fair this is only a small county, and come jan 2014 will be over run with robbing romanians, it feels like this goverment is too soft and are letting themselves being treated like a door mat. I dont want to be in a country where the native tongue is getting rarer and rarer.

Then why the fuck would you go to America? They don't even have a 'native' tongue!

You think the country's getting fucked up and you feel like you're being pushed out so you want to flee to another country? Do you not even realise how ironic that is

[Gandi699]

1. Put a cap on those child benefits, I heard enough stories of kids who don't give a flying fuck about school because they know they can breed and be entitled money and a council flat because of their mini-mes. Kids having kids.


I agree with this. Age restrictions/tests on breeding wouldnt work in the real world but the above would stop a good percentage of it, if not most

[Stissy]

Well if you cannot handle your drink at 18 you shouldn't be drinking at all.

I drunk when I was 18 but didn't act a complete thug like you.

Just depends who you are really.

i wasn't a thug. i was just a dick - and i admit that.
but i had some fucking good nights out :y:

[haz_pro]

but you are minority in that respect are you not?

Who knows, I doubt there are any legit peer reviewed research on this.

Something relevant to points made earlier in this thread... http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/398218/Age-of-consent-should-be-lowered-to-13-to-stop-persecution-of-old-men-says-top-barrister

i wasn't a thug. i was just a dick - and i admit that.
but i had some fucking good nights out :y:

The definition of thug is a violent human, so you were a thug. Being a dick would be going a bit far with verbal "banter".

[haz_pro]

double post.

[Ryancoyle]

i wasn't a thug. i was just a dick - and i admit that.
but i had some fucking good nights out :y:

Can you please tell me how you were not a thug?

"got into fights, sick everywhere, argued with people over stupid things, stole things, broke into places. me and my friends were all like it."

Starting fights, breaking into places and stealing things sounds like a thug to me?

[9mm]

Then why the fuck would you go to America? They don't even have a 'native' tongue!

You think the country's getting fucked up and you feel like you're being pushed out so you want to flee to another country? Do you not even realise how ironic that is

yes everyone is in the same boat in america, i would leave this county as soon it will have nothing to offer me, nothing to give me, nothing to aid me when i need help.... i could go on all day so when you ask 'why' there are so many answers but nothing we can do about so it feel like put up or shut up.

[Stissy]

Can you please tell me how you were not a thug?

"got into fights, sick everywhere, argued with people over stupid things, stole things, broke into places. me and my friends were all like it."

Starting fights, breaking into places and stealing things sounds like a thug to me?

i was never voilent, not at heart anyway (especially if you saw the type of person i am) i just hung around with the wrong crowd i guess. quite a lot of my friends when i first turned 18 were a few years older than me.

[0rang3peel]

yes everyone is in the same boat in america, i would leave this county as soon it will have nothing to offer me, nothing to give me, nothing to aid me when i need help.... i could go on all day so when you ask 'why' there are so many answers but nothing we can do about so it feel like put up or shut up.

One of your reasons to leave the country was because you feel it's not your country anymore due to the migrants coming over for a better life.

So now you're going to become a migrant in another country because you want a better life.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

I can't wait for you to leave I feel our country would benefit from it.

Maybe they will let you in Harvard too with that flawless logic of yours.

[nicole_]

but you are minority in that respect are you not?

but thats the same for almost anything, not everyone living on benefits is a scrounging drug addict/young single mum with 8 kids. not every immigrant is coming here to live for free. theres exceptions for most things, and reasons why things are the way they are with the system.

[Ryancoyle]

i was never voilent, not at heart anyway (especially if you saw the type of person i am) i just hung around with the wrong crowd i guess. quite a lot of my friends when i first turned 18 were a few years older than me.

You obviously were violent though if you got into fights.

People at 18 are just out to prove that they are someone by fighting, acting like hero's etc. when really they are just attention seeking scumbags.

I am not saying that you are a thug now but you were when you were 18 by the sounds of it. just my opinion

Less if this :drink::boxing: and more of this :hug:

[Gandi699]

but thats the same for almost anything, not everyone living on benefits is a scrounging drug addict/young single mum with 8 kids. not every immigrant is coming here to live for free. theres exceptions for most things, and reasons why things are the way they are with the system.

Exactly, each case in individual. So why should smokers be penalised outdoors in a public place just because you dont like it?

[haz_pro]

Exactly, each case in individual. So why should smokers be penalised outdoors in a public place just because you dont like it?

Because breathing 2nd hand smoke damages other peoples health. It doesn't matter how much or how little, at the end of the day it may be the smokers choice to harm themselves, but this should not be imparted on others.

It especially pisses me off when they stand outside doors, say in super markets, and I am with my 3 month old child. It is inconsiderate and down right disgusting.

[Davyy]

Age restrictions on sex etc etc is bullshit. The majority of people I know lost their virginity at 14/15, so no matter what age it is.. it is a law that is often ignored.

[Gandi699]

Because breathing 2nd hand smoke damages other peoples health. It doesn't matter how much or how little, at the end of the day it may be the smokers choice to harm themselves, but this should not be imparted on others.

It especially pisses me off when they stand outside doors, say in super markets, and I am with my 3 month old child. It is inconsiderate and down right disgusting.

I dont believe in smoking around children, but then if you put a blanket ban in place it opens up a whole can of worms.
I reckon if that was to be passed then what other liberties would those in power impose on us?

[Gandi699]

Age restrictions on sex etc etc is bullshit. The majority of people I know lost their virginity at 14/15, so no matter what age it is.. it is a law that is often ignored.

Dont you think that its mad how you can have a child and be married (in some areas) at 16 yet cant legally drive a car, buy a drink, buy cigarettes, play call of duty or whatever, watch an 18 rated film or even watch porn?

[Davyy]

Yes course I do - it is mad.. but it is 16 because they have to put an age on it, but really they know the law won't be followed regardless of the age stated.

[Stissy]

You obviously were violent though if you got into fights.

People at 18 are just out to prove that they are someone by fighting, acting like hero's etc. when really they are just attention seeking scumbags.

I am not saying that you are a thug now but you were when you were 18 by the sounds of it. just my opinion

Less if this :drink::boxing: and more of this :hug:

if you knew me, i'm hardly the fighting type. i'm a skinny white boy but i used to go out purposely to get leery. i never started fights, but i got into a lot of fights: partly because of the people i went out with, and partly because of the places i went. but that was my mentality at that age. you never get that now, because me and all my friends are older and more mature.

[Heliosphan]

I don't think anybody is going to deny that it is an issue that needs addressing- of course it is.

Well, 'addressing the issue' means different things to different people, not least because people first have to agree what the issue is never mind how to address it.

Take Migration Matters for instance. It says on their website that they are against the 'ever tighter restrictions on immigration'. Seeing as net migration stands at around 200k per year, you can only assume that they are happy with current levels. And why wouldn't they be? This is a pro-migration pressure group that we're talking about, fronted by 4 people of whom 3 are ethnic minorities themselves (you couldn't make it up!). It mainly consists of left-wing politicians and business executives who stand to gain tremendously from large scale immigration.

So I can imagine that Migration Matters will be addressing the issue by misleading people into thinking that there isn't one.

I didn't get that impression from the report at all.

That piece of journalism shows a nightmare scenario for putting an end to net migration. It even goes to such length as to compare the likely outcome to the situation in Greece, so no scaremongering there then! Seeing as most people know that a complete halt to net migration is unlikely, the most likely thought pattern would be to apply the same thesis to a reduction in migration rather than a complete halt. And given the dire consequences outlined within that report, it shouldn't take much to understand how the article implicates any significant reduction as an overall bad thing for the UK.

It just seems that immigration is the new target in the modern witch-hunt to find reasons as to why our country is economically suffering, when in reality these people are quick to ignore the real need for specialist and skilled migrant workers from other countries.

I think the point here is entirely your own perception. There is no way on earth that a person with any gumption would blame the woes of the country just on immigration. Some might do but then these people probably don't have the mental capacity to form a coherrent argument on the subject.

It goes back to the debate about what level and type of immigration is desirable. I won't go into detail but what we need are highly skilled people where a skills shortage is identified. What we don't need are thousands of low-skilled workers flooding the jobs market which drives wages down and forces people on to benefits.

[craigbarley]

Immigration law
Youth of today
Footballers wages
Dole money( make them do any job or u get no money)
Bank holidays( more of them weekly)

[McGuire86]

Leaving the EU is a ridiculous idea. think of it in terms of economic stability.



What a load of nonsense, the EU brings the exact opposite to economic stability. Maybe to the Germans as they are thriving off it. Have a look at Portugal and Greece, you think the EU has brought them stability ???

[Stissy]

What a load of nonsense, the EU brings the exact opposite to economic stability. Maybe to the Germans as they are thriving off it. Have a look at Portugal and Greece, you think the EU has brought them stability ???

was it not the EU that bailed them out debt?

[Brettles1986]

was it not the EU that bailed them out debt?

Further adding to our instability, the money had to come from somewhere and we contributed when we have our own issues in this country.

[Hazmanscoop]

I would just change the majority of the laziness in this country...

ESPECIALLY the next generation that will be taking over.

But to sum up, this country is finished...

[Stissy]

Further adding to our instability, the money had to come from somewhere and we contributed when we have our own issues in this country.

...but what would happen if we got in the shit?

[Brettles1986]

...but what would happen if we got in the shit?

Quantitative easing would probably take place as it already has a few times.

[Hazmanscoop]

I believe leaving the EU would be a good thing.

But could go two ways Pound to Euro exchange rate could be in favour or against us as we import most of the things in this country.

But the fact we dont use the Euro, when everyone else does, seems to have a detrimental effect on us.

But at least we could deport who we want if we werent part of it (Abu Hamza etc..)

[haz_pro]

But at least we could deport who we want if we werent part of it (Abu Hamza etc..)

Isn't it the UN who stop us from deporting him, rather than the EU?

[craigbarley]

We have made alot of mistakes as a country but doesn't everyone!

[Stissy]

Quantitative easing would probably take place as it already has a few times.

Quantitative easing...

Re: Charlie Brookers Newswipe Circa 2011 maybe 2012? He explains that very well.

[Brettles1986]

Quantitative easing...

Re: Charlie Brookers Newswipe Circa 2011 maybe 2012? He explains that very well.

Never seen it, I am aware that it is not the best option as the more money that is printed means that the value of it drops.

[craigbarley]

Yeah printing more money makes the pound lose value, we hold a very good value at the min that's y they don't want to print more money

[Stissy]

Never seen it, I am aware that it is not the best option as the more money that is printed means that the value of it drops.

so the pound drops in value, yet the country gets richer?

Also - How this is better than our surrounding nations bailing us out.

[McGuire86]

was it not the EU that bailed them out debt?

No. They were already a poor nation but they were producing their own goods and had a reasonable workforce.

When they joined the EU part of the rules are you have to compete on the same level as the Euro. The Escudo and the Drachmas were stronger for themselves than the Euro.

They lost billions, millions lost their jobs as each nation were unable to compete on the same level as Germany and France. The EU fucked them completely. And now as Greece want to pull out to try and save their country, Germany are threatening them saying if they do, then they will stop the EU trading with them.

The economic downfall of these two countries has spread to Ireland and Spain and Italy will probably be next. There will be no money to 'bail them out' with. It will add further strain to our already financial deficit.

If you really believe the EU is a good thing for us or any of the members (bar Germany and France on some points) then you're either ignorant to the facts or you just don't understand the problems.

[theJoker]

1, sort the nhs out
2, charge people for wasting paramedics time
3, immigration
4, bring back capital punishment
5, get out of the EU

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[Pieface]

Make Obesity a lifestyle choice, not an illness or a disease, and if people are ill from eating too much, and won't diet, refuse them NHS treatment on the Welfare state, they have to go private.

[EwynSaxo]

Make Obesity a lifestyle choice, not an illness or a disease, and if people are ill from eating too much, and won't diet, refuse them NHS treatment on the Welfare state, they have to go private.

Theres a girl from south wales shes in the paper on a regular, tax payers money was spent to send her to America to loose weight and she did, came back doubled her original weight and had to have her front of the house removed for paramedics to get her out for hospital treatment. . sickening

[potatopete]

1, sort the nhs out
2, charge people for wasting paramedics time
3, immigration
4, bring back capital punishment
5, get out of the EU

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All of these, plus I'd bring back the death sentence for particular crimes where guilt is proven 100%.

As far as immigration is concerned, why not follow Australia's rule of only allowing immigrants to settle if they have either a skilled job to go to or the funds to live off without having to seek any government help.

[stevo67]

All of these, plus I'd bring back the death sentence for particular crimes where guilt is proven 100%.

As far as immigration is concerned, why not follow Australia's rule of only allowing immigrants to settle if they have either a skilled job to go to or the funds to live off without having to seek any government help.

A better option in my opinion would be to invest in training for the people already living here.:drink:

[potatopete]

A better option in my opinion would be to invest in training for the people already living here.:drink:

Yeah, but that woould just be extra expense for the tax payer. Why not just impose conditions on entry into the UK? I think Cameron is planning on introducing conditions like this but these things can take months or even years to get passed.

[stevo67]

Yeah, but that woould just be extra expense for the tax payer. Why not just impose conditions on entry into the UK? I think Cameron is planning on introducing conditions like this but these things can take months or even years to get passed.

I take the opinion that you only get out what you put in,if we came out of europe then extra cash would be freed up to invest in training schemes.To trade in europe we only need a trade ageement we don`t need to sign up to everything thus letting europe control us.:y:

[9mm]

-Every 18 year old to do national service.
-Every immigrant to speak (GOOD!) english. not ok or not none at all! i am for people bettering their lives but you have to give a little to take a little.
-Get out the EU
-Get Benefits to people who need them and impossible for lazy people to get them.
-Import less and start producing more things LIKE WE USED TO! and stop relying on others like China, Japan, Indian ect.
I know it is 5 but one more i think we should think about is bring back the death penalty for very serious crime as we are just too soft!