Using hand brake to reduce stopping distance?

[mikethefox]

Hello fellas, I've been having this matter that I'd like to discuss with more people that have experience on cars. I'd figure this would be the place as most of us are saxo's owners/lovers :)

So the other day, I was going 80 Km/h (50 mph?) and I was forced to stop because a car was stopped at a corner with bad visibility, and I only saw it when I was too close to stop safely.
I slammed the brake and as my car doesn't have ABS, the front wheels locked immediately (didn't think my brakes could do that at that speed, as they are cheap). I predicted that at that rate, I would crash into the back end of the car, and after a while, after I was sure that I was going to crash, I quickly raised the handbrake, and I felt the car braking much harder.

So the question here is:

Does applying the hand brake on a car that has the front wheels already locked, reduce the stopping distance?

I think it does for, because:

-To stop a car you need friction, to get the friction, usually the brakes apply them on the wheels, in my case, the front.
If too much friction is applied, the front wheels will lock, causing the tires to make friction with the road, that if it is dry, won't be a problem.

-So what's with the rear wheels? They're just being dragged. I think that if you lock those up too, that will increase the road friction, and therefore, the stopping distance.

Bad part of that: You will damage your tires, possibly break the handbreake system as it was not meant to bear such forces.
But if it puts you to a stop and avoid an accident, might be worth it.

In the situation I was above, I just was sure that I was gonna crash, and I just needed to do something, my reaction was to activate handbrake, and it saved me from a lot of trouble.
I could have also have released the brakes for a while, steer my car clear of the other car into the other lane and then brake hard again.

There again, if I had done that, I would have done that I would have caused a worse accident. The in front of me was stopped because there was a tight passing bridge, and a big bus was going through it. If I had gone into the other lane, I would be in the way of the bus, forcing it to brake while it was on a corner... Would have been bad.

So basically, I believe the handbrake just saved my life that day :)

Obviously, if you're not on asphalt or on a wet surface, if you lock your wheels you're doomed.

I'd like to hear what you think about the physics of the stopping, not about wheter or not you should do it, because we all know that under normal situations, you SHOULD NEVER use the hand brake, because it can worsen the situation by putting your vehicle out of control. So save the moral lessons and the lectures on what toll handbraking will put your vehicle into, because I already know that.

Thanks in advance for your attention.

[Lukus-vtr]

It's good practice to get used to brake pumping where you press and depress the brake pedal in quick succession under heavy braking when you detect your brakes locking if you don't have ABS. I had to do this in a situation, and although it's sort of counter intuitive I think without it I would have ploughed straight into the obstruction.

[mikethefox]

Funny picture, but I fail to see what it has to do with anything I said above :)

[mikethefox]

It's good practice to get used to brake pumping where you press and depress the brake pedal in quick succession under heavy braking when you detect your brakes locking if you don't have ABS. I had to do this in a situation, and although it's sort of counter intuitive I think without it I would have ploughed straight into the obstruction.

I get what you're saying, sure is counter intuitive and I wonder if it does really reduce your stopping distance. I would rather do that if I had to steer off some obstacle in the road, cause everybody knows you can't steer with the wheels locked.
Otherwise, I'd sacrifice my tires to safe stop.

[Lukus-vtr]

I get what you're saying, sure is counter intuitive and I wonder if it does really reduce your stopping distance. I would rather do that if I had to steer off some obstacle in the road, cause everybody knows you can't steer with the wheels locked.
Otherwise, I'd sacrifice my tires to safe stop.

I'd be interested to see a side by side comparison of two of the same non abs cars travelling at identical speeds and see which has the shortest stopping distance between a car that pumps the brakes and a car that just locks up and relies on the friction of the tyres to slow the car to a halt. I'd put my wager on the brake pump method myself. :)

[Carl-h]

A locked tyre will always take longer to stop than one that isn't. Without being nasty you need to practice braking. If your progressive on the pedal and load up those front tyres with the weight you can literally stand on the pedal and they won't lock. You slam the pedal down before there's much weight on them and they'll lock instantly. Braking properly is all about being progressive and smooth and teaching yourself not to panic in an emergency.

[mikethefox]

A locked tyre will always take longer to stop than one that isn't. Without being nasty you need to practice braking. If your progressive on the pedal and load up those front tyres with the weight you can literally stand on the pedal and they won't lock. You slam the pedal down before there's much weight on them and they'll lock instantly. Braking properly is all about being progressive and smooth and teaching yourself not to panic in an emergency.

You're not being nasty by pointing out the truth. I really do need to practice braking maybe.

Though I'm not so sure about pumping the brakes in a straight line, but i'm not talking by experience, I'm doing some research:

-Citing wikipedia:
"While cadence braking is effective on most surfaces, it is less effective at slowing the vehicle than keeping the tyres continually at the optimum braking point which is called threshold braking"

It appears that Carl-h's description of braking method comes close to what is described in "threshold braking" technique. And from now on I'll try to apply my brakes like that.

But another question: Wouldn't adding friction to the rear wheels (by locking them) supposedly decrease the stopping distance?

-Again: I'm not saying one should do it, I'm talking in theory.

[devilsadvocate]

If you have to slam your breaks on, you are to close to the car in front.

I can't count how many times I see people getting right up the arse of other cars and then having to keep slamming their brakes on.

I reckon impatience is a contributing factor in a lot of accidents.

Leave a bigger gap and slow the fuck down a bit, its not rocket science.

[Oli-VTR]

I was driving a tractor with a 12 tonne trailer behind it down a hill when the brakes failed. To avoid killing a corsa I tried the handbrake but wasnt enough so I found that nearby hedges are a good way to slow down

[Hazmanscoop]

Devil, read the story... Parked car on a corner without a clear view. Maybe the person parking their car should think about where they are leaving it.

[Randyransford91]

So the other day, I was going 80 Km/h (50 mph?) and I was forced to stop because a car was stopped at a corner with bad visibility, and I only saw it when I was too close to stop safely.
I slammed the brake and as my car doesn't have ABS, the front wheels locked immediately (didn't think my brakes could do that at that speed, as they are cheap). I predicted that at that rate, I would crash into the back end of the car, and after a while, after I was sure that I was going to crash, I quickly raised the handbrake, and I felt the car braking much harder.

If you have to slam your breaks on, you are to close to the car in front.

I can't count how many times I see people getting right up the arse of other cars and then having to keep slamming their brakes on.

I reckon impatience is a contributing factor in a lot of accidents.

Leave a bigger gap and slow the fuck down a bit, its not rocket science.

It's not rocket science reading either....

[Manu]

You're supposed to approach blind corners with caution and slow down a bit. You also need to practice on your braking skills. If you lock them, you're doing it wrong.

I used the handbrake twice. In both situations my ABS was getting nuts because of snow and ice while approaching a junction, pulled and pumped it to slow the car down.

Pulled it once as a passenger, the driver was fiddling with the centre console while that tractor in front of us slowed down to turn at the next junction. Close shave.

[manta]

I would have thought locking all four wheels mid corner would be a bad idea.

Also, blind turns are dodgy, slow down Ayrton.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07-XgXawlAU

[Stissy]

i once came over the brow of a hill in my saxo (a little too fast, i will admit) and when coming down the other side there was a que of traffic that had backed right up to the top of the hill. i slammed on, locked up, panicked, pulled the handbrake and stopped almost dead... saved my insurance.

i dont know if it was the handbrake alone or if the brakes just pulled through at the same point.

[Carl-h]

I can explaina little better now I'm not leaving for work. The thing you've read about called threshold braking is the fastest way to stop no doubt about it. Cadence braking is only to be used if you've locked a wheel. Your unlikely to need that unless driving on ice or gravel as long as your braking correctly in the first place. If you brake smooth and progressively you shouldn't find any problems. I learnt how to brake properly on a bike where if I lock the front at anything over 30 it'll only end badly for me. Get the weight over that front tyre though and I can bring the back wheel in the air at 90mph.

Honestly, go out and practice braking in a quiet industrial estate. Practice in the wet and dry. Learn what it takes to lock the wheels up so you can learn how not to. I wrote off my first car 34 hours after getting it on the road. Braked hard, locked up and just pushed harder on the pedal and slid straight into a parked car. After that I taught myself to brake properly.

Also, the correct way to drive is to always be able to stop in the distance you can see. It can mean crawling round some blind bends which isn't velvety fun or practical but it could save your life. I'm not saying I always drive like this but everything is a calculated risk.

Edit: practice locking up and bring it back again with cadence braking too. You should only need to let off for a small moment and don't let off fully, just enough for the wheels to start spinning then get back on the brakes smoothly! On Tarmac unless icy you shouldn't need to repeat it again but learn it incase it ever happens. It can be very easy to panic and slam on if something pulls out etc.

[kmak577]

I can explaina little better now I'm not leaving for work. The thing you've read about called threshold braking is the fastest way to stop no doubt about it. Cadence braking is only to be used if you've locked a wheel. Your unlikely to need that unless driving on ice or gravel as long as your braking correctly in the first place. If you brake smooth and progressively you shouldn't find any problems. I learnt how to brake properly on a bike where if I lock the front at anything over 30 it'll only end badly for me. Get the weight over that front tyre though and I can bring the back wheel in the air at 90mph.

Honestly, go out and practice braking in a quiet industrial estate. Practice in the wet and dry. Learn what it takes to lock the wheels up so you can learn how not to. I wrote off my first car 34 hours after getting it on the road. Braked hard, locked up and just pushed harder on the pedal and slid straight into a parked car. After that I taught myself to brake properly.

Also, the correct way to drive is to always be able to stop in the distance you can see. It can mean crawling round some blind bends which isn't velvety fun or practical but it could save your life. I'm not saying I always drive like this but everything is a calculated risk.

Edit: practice locking up and bring it back again with cadence braking too. You should only need to let off for a small moment and don't let off fully, just enough for the wheels to start spinning then get back on the brakes smoothly! On Tarmac unless icy you shouldn't need to repeat it again but learn it incase it ever happens. It can be very easy to panic and slam on if something pulls out etc.

Interesting read! So, how'd you get the weight over the wheels?

[mechsman]

^ Brake progressively. Feel the nose dip when you brake? That's weight transfering forward. The idea is to brake hard enough to drop the nose but not hard enough to lock the wheels. That way, the front wheels have more weight on them, so you can brake even harder. The trick is to balance the braking effort right up to the point just before the wheels lock. This is the maximum braking effort that the tyre can apply to the road surface, or "threshold braking". If you exceed the threshold, the wheel will lock and the tyre will be sliding. This is where "cadence braking" comes in. Cadence braking requires that you relieve some of the braking effort, thus allowing the wheel to spin up again from it's locked state and the tyre to regain traction. You can then reapply more braking effort. In reality this is what the abs system does, just a whole lot faster than a human can. ABS systems nowadays can detect that a wheel is about to lock as there is a very small time period just before the wheel locks where the rate deceleration of wheels rotation is extremely high. Modern abs computers are fast enough to read this and they momentarily drop the brake effort to that wheel to prevent the wheel locking.

Incidently, a car with locked wheels will take longer to stop, as the sliding coefficient of friction is less than the static coefficient of friction. i.e keeping something sliding is much easier than getting something started in the first place. This works in converse when applied to a tire. i.e. it is relatively difficult to start a tire sliding (locked) but once it is sliding, it's much easier for the tire to keep sliding than to regain traction.

[BarrVTR]

I lost all brakes coming up to a roundabout at 60mph, pulled the handbrake locked both rear wheels up and stopped just short of it. I was very lucky to stop in time.

[greyjasper51]

The fastest way to brake is to have the wheels turning 20% slower than the car is moving... This allows the wheels to be turned and still have traction and steering is still possible, road cars as road cars have soft suspension, meaning that you hit the brakes and the nose dives, this shifts all the weight to the front, it also acts as an inertia throwing all the weight to the front quickly... As to what you were saying pulling the handbrake on will shift the weight back again reducing what has been thrown forwards... The rear brakes on general road use hardly ever get used and so therefore are never 100% effective, you pulling the handbrake on makes them more effective, more to as they should be and designed to be... Non abs cars have the ability to stop quicker, however if total lockout occurs they cant be steered... The pumping of the pedal replicates abs and is called "cadence braking" and was about long before abs was... Its not the quickest way to stop but it allows you to steer whilst slowing down as quickly as possible whilst steering... Hope that helps

[mikethefox]

If you have to slam your breaks on, you are to close to the car in front.

I can't count how many times I see people getting right up the arse of other cars and then having to keep slamming their brakes on.

I reckon impatience is a contributing factor in a lot of accidents.

Leave a bigger gap and slow the fuck down a bit, its not rocket science.

I usually leave a safe distance beetween cars, I'm not a speeder.

But this time, I was following a friend that was leading, and that guy is nuts, and we were driving 30 km/h over the speed limit.
I was trying to catch up with him, as a 1.1i saxo with 4 people and about 50kg of cargo does not have the same acceleration as diesel clio with just 2 people on it, and a mad driver.

Then on a blind corner, he suddenly stopped, and when I could see it, I had to break in a straight line, and as I described, I did it wrong and the wheels locked for a while, I predicted I was gonna crash and pulled the handbrake. Turns out it prevented me from crashing.

After that I wouldn't care if he was 1 mile away from me anymore, it would be better to be lost than to wreck my car lol.

About people that just get too close and then keep slamming their brakes, they're just fools. I usually keep my distance enough to stop pretty smoothly without having passengers and stuff in my car dancing front. But in that case, I ceased to see the guy in front of me because of the blind turn, and as the idiot I am, I went too fast into the turn than I should've, and when I saw the guy in front again he was stopped and just had to stop as soon as possible.

[mikethefox]

I can explaina little better now I'm not leaving for work. The thing you've read about called threshold braking is the fastest way to stop no doubt about it. Cadence braking is only to be used if you've locked a wheel. Your unlikely to need that unless driving on ice or gravel as long as your braking correctly in the first place. If you brake smooth and progressively you shouldn't find any problems. I learnt how to brake properly on a bike where if I lock the front at anything over 30 it'll only end badly for me. Get the weight over that front tyre though and I can bring the back wheel in the air at 90mph.

Honestly, go out and practice braking in a quiet industrial estate. Practice in the wet and dry. Learn what it takes to lock the wheels up so you can learn how not to. I wrote off my first car 34 hours after getting it on the road. Braked hard, locked up and just pushed harder on the pedal and slid straight into a parked car. After that I taught myself to brake properly.

Also, the correct way to drive is to always be able to stop in the distance you can see. It can mean crawling round some blind bends which isn't velvety fun or practical but it could save your life. I'm not saying I always drive like this but everything is a calculated risk.

Edit: practice locking up and bring it back again with cadence braking too. You should only need to let off for a small moment and don't let off fully, just enough for the wheels to start spinning then get back on the brakes smoothly! On Tarmac unless icy you shouldn't need to repeat it again but learn it incase it ever happens. It can be very easy to panic and slam on if something pulls out etc.

I really do appreciate you sharing your experience :)

Night-time, tiredness as I was driving without sleep and the pressure to get to the destination on time was all over me, so I'm just glad that I pulled out of the situation without major harm done :D

[rick_VTR]

after you braked and realised you couldnt stop (probably going about 35mph by now down from 50) you, should of just clutched it, pulled the bar up, hooked it right, then as it come around smash it into 1st or 2nd floor it and drop the clutch. hey presto your goin back the way you came and nobody got hurt :)

typical autotest maneuver, (usualy applied faster, around a cone) but same principal applies.

[b0t13]

simple answer to your question

if the front wheels are locked, yes using the handbrake will apply more braking force and stop quicker, although as mentioned above doing this probally isnt the more 'efficient' way to stop in time but its alot easier than the other methods IF youve never done them before and have 5 seconds to react,

ABS in the snow is BS aswell, the handbrake + drift skills is much more effective :D

[Stealyourface]

I dunno if this helps but when I had just passed my test I had a few 106 1.1's and if I was approaching a speed camera too fast I would pull up my handbrake one or two clicks to slow me down a few mph without putting my brake lights on, because I see it as admitting I was speeding and there's loads of undercover police around in London, but anyway I've gone off the point, when I pulled my handbrake a few times it wasn't enough so I pressed the brake pedal and the point where the brakes bit felt a lot closer to the top of the pedals travel than normal so when I was leaving work one day ( in an industrial estate late in the evening - great place to practise some braking manoeuvres that someone already said) I put on the brakes at about 35 and gave the handbrake a good yank and I felt the pedal push back against my foot and making the pedal feel a lot firmer, so I dunno if that could be the brake balance changing or just from pushing the fluid around the system by pulling the handbrake.

[mikethefox]

simple answer to your question

if the front wheels are locked, yes using the handbrake will apply more braking force and stop quicker, although as mentioned above doing this probally isnt the more 'efficient' way to stop in time but its alot easier than the other methods IF youve never done them before and have 5 seconds to react,

ABS in the snow is BS aswell, the handbrake + drift skills is much more effective :D

Do all ABS suck on snow? I don't live in a place that snows but I had the general impression that ABS would prevent your wheels from locking in any surface, thus making you able to steer and stop safely.

I don't even have a car with ABS either, but it's always good to know :)

[greyjasper51]

All abs is shit in snow, i havent found 1 system that doesnt cut in too early, the best so far are mk1 focus petrols and 6n polo petrols... Haldex quattro systems are shit in the snow and the common conception of 4x4 in the snow is flawless... Also wrong... 4x4's generally stop slower as there is alot more mass being thrown around...


As for the stiff pedal, when you hit the brakes the rear wheel cylinders come out and you pull the handbrake and it tries to push it back in... Hence the pedal going stiff...

[Manu]

Do all ABS suck on snow?

depends. Was shit on my saxo as in actually no brakes at all, my current car is a lot better though still has a playstation feedback feel coming through the pedal.

[MartinObviously]

Op, you need to learn threshold braking :y:

Your 1.1 saxo does not have a load compensator for the rear brakes. I'll bet if it was just you in the car, added use of the handbrake would have you lock up and spin because there was less weight over the rear end.

Never use the handbrake in an emergency stop. Only if your hydraulic brakes fail.

The pedal should get LIGHTER if you pull the handbrake with the foot brake pressed, when you're stopped if you hold your foot on the pedal lightly and pull the handbrake you'll feel what I'm sayin. :P

ABS sucks dick in the snow, it's just not needed on such a small car imo. I pull the fuse for my ABS when there's snow.

A locked wheel will ALWAYS stop you faster than ABS. ABS is mandatory these days because you can still steer and that supposedly outweighs the disadvantage of taking longer to stop.

Threshold braking is better than ABS as well.


//rant

[mechsman]

Pretty much all abs systems suck in the snow, unless they have a specific snow mode. The grip threshold is so low and without a snow mode the abs will be doing it hardest to try to prevent the wheel locking. An abs with a snow mode will let the wheels lock very briefly and won't cut in quite as hard or as early as one without.

In some cases it actually can be more effective to let the wheels lock in the snow as the locked wheel causes snow to pile up in front of the tire, thus providing more resistance (snowplough effect). The caveat is that it has to be relatively soft, thick snow without a hard layer of ice underneath. 4 wheel drift and opposite lock is the way forward in the snow ;) lol

[mechsman]

The pedal should get LIGHTER if you pull the handbrake with the foot brake pressed, when you're stopped if you hold your foot on the pedal lightly and pull the handbrake you'll feel what I'm sayin. :P

A locked wheel will ALWAYS stop you faster than ABS. ABS is mandatory these days because you can still steer and that supposedly outweighs the disadvantage of taking longer to stop.

Threshold braking is better than ABS as well.


//rant

Erm, no. The pedal will try to push back if the shoes are in contact with the drums (via the footbrake) and you pull the handbrake. This is due to the mechanics of where the shoes are pivoted and where the force from the handbrake is applied.

Second point, wrong, see my earlier post for static verses sliding coefficient of friction. All other things being equal, a locked wheel will ALWAYS take longer to stop than one that is rolling. Sliding coefficient of friction is less than static and thus a sliding tyre will provide less tractive effort than one that has grip. All the abs system does is prevent the wheel from locking in the first place.

In very specific circumstances abs can take a miniscule amount of extra distance to stop. This is ONLY on loose surfaces such as gravel or snow. I'd trade that to be able to steer around an obstacle on tarmac any day.

The ABS is effectively doing the threshold bit for you. A computer can react to the wheel starting to lock so much faster than a human, and can keep the wheel at this point much more easily.

[Carl-h]

Despite having more weight 4x4's stop much better in the snow. Simply because all the wheels are driven engine braking is much more effective and the engine is keeping all 4 wheels turning not locking.

ABS will stop quicker than a locked wheel, no doubt about it. Threshold braking performed correctly will out perform an ABS system, but virtually no one is good enough to beat ABS.

The problem with ABS is that to let the wheel spin again it has to release the pressure almost completely but the way the power is introduced means the wheel locks again almost instantly. If it eased the power back to the caliper it would be more effective in my opinion.

[MartinObviously]

Erm, no. The pedal will try to push back if the shoes are in contact with the drums (via the footbrake) and you pull the handbrake. This is due to the mechanics of where the shoes are pivoted and where the force from the handbrake is applied.

Second point, wrong, see my earlier post for static verses sliding coefficient of friction. All other things being equal, a locked wheel will ALWAYS take longer to stop than one that is rolling. Sliding coefficient of friction is less than static and thus a sliding tyre will provide less tractive effort than one that has grip. All the abs system does is prevent the wheel from locking in the first place.

In very specific circumstances abs can take a miniscule amount of extra distance to stop. This is ONLY on loose surfaces such as gravel or snow. I'd trade that to be able to steer around an obstacle on tarmac any day.

The ABS is effectively doing the threshold bit for you. A computer can react to the wheel starting to lock so much faster than a human, and can keep the wheel at this point much more easily.

ABS is larger braking distance than threshold braking or locking up in the dry. (because it locks and releases and the subsequent release is more relief than threshold braking manually)

end of :P no arguments!

There's an old top gear about it, also talks about tread depths as well. about the "recent" change from 1mm to 1.6mm minimum tread depth.

I'll see if I can find it.

[Stealyourface]

So in an emergency situation, the best way to stop is to use threshold braking and engine braking at the same time, but if your wheels have already locked, would using engine braking help the wheels to spin to get more grip or would it be useless?
Tbh this threads makes me feel like practising "emergency manoeuvres" more often cos it's always usefull knowing the limits of your car when a real emergency situation happens.

Also, it's slightly unrelated to the thread but does using engine braking all the time during everyday driving harm the engine / cause it to wear any faster than normal?

[m11ler]

Here's an idea, if the brakes lock, release some pressure from the pedal, then reapply.
Your body has ABS as standard, i thought it was something that just came naturally.

Obviously i'm just Colin Mcrae

[mikethefox]

Also, it's slightly unrelated to the thread but does using engine braking all the time during everyday driving harm the engine / cause it to wear any faster than normal?

I believe engine braking done correctly does only increase by little the wear of the engine.

By doing correctly I mean, imagine you're going at 40 km/h, and you want to brake to a full stop: I usualy drive at 3rd gear at that speed, so what I'll do is brake and let the engine rev down to 1000 rpm and then shift to neutral. No need to shift down to 2nd, that would be wearing the engine and the gears too much.
It will be better for your brakes to use the engine to brake, but if you over do it, making hard down shifts to over 3000 rpm, I believe that will over-wear the engine.

But in emergency cases, I don't think the engine braking will help, since if you brake too hard, you will exceed the threshold, and by exceeding the threshold you will stop in a distance greater than the perfect one. Engine braking will only add more braking power to the wheels, making them even easier to lock.

If your brakes by themselves have the power to achieve the brake threshold, then why would you need more braking power?

So in my opinion, as long as your brakes are working fine, engine braking in emergency situation won't help a lot.


Tbh this threads makes me feel like practising "emergency manoeuvres" more often cos it's always usefull knowing the limits of your car when a real emergency situation happens.

Yup, when I have the chance I will definitely gonna test the limits of my car. I have to be careful not to over do it, as I believe my suspension is kind of needing some new parts, it's making weird noises every time I brake when driving with more people in the car :/

[mikethefox]

I'll bet if it was just you in the car, added use of the handbrake would have you lock up and spin because there was

Appreciate everything you said :)

But I've played around with the handbrake on mud and gravel, and at the speed I applied the handbrake I was kind of sure I could have controlled the car, as it was a straight line braking. I always have the impression that locking the rear wheels without turning first, won't spin you out, you need to be turning already to be able to spin when you lock the rear wheels.

Tried to apply the hand brake and then turn, car wouldn't move to the side very much, kind of the same when front wheels lock.

Though I never applied the handbrake on tarmac... is it significantly different?

[MartinObviously]

Well I didn't know what speed you were going. :P

It can still spin you going straight, as one side usually locks momentarily before the other :y:

[Mike_Roberts]

......

[mikethefox]

Engine braking is a VERY effective way of slowing down quicker in an emergency situation.

If I didn't use it when rallying, I would have had loads of accidents by now!

I quite often use the handbrake as well.. Used correctly it increases the braking, but most the time I purely use it to get the car pointing in the right direction with a combination of throttle and slide it around whatever it is I'm trying to avoid! You'd be amazed at how much control you can have when you're sliding, and on numerous occasions has stopped me hitting stuff that I would have most definitely hit if I braked in a straight line.

We weren't talking about rallying, but in real life traffic situation. Obviously under racing circunstances you will want to do engine braking, that's what need for speed taught me :P

You can have control when you slide IF you are used to slide the car. If you slide for the first time on the first couple of times I bet you don't have the same control.

[Mike_Roberts]

......

[craig180]

Better tyres

/thread

[Giraffe]

Craig, why you bumping old shit topics? Haha

[MartinObviously]

Craig, why you bumping old shit topics? Haha

+1

It's also an invalid answer.

[craig180]

Errr, dunno! It appeared in my new posts feed lol

[Giraffe]

Haha you bumped Carl's topic about getting a hot hatch as well which I thought was thankfully dead and buried... Wonder what he actually did in the end...

[stevo67]

If you have to slam your breaks on, you are to close to the car in front.

I can't count how many times I see people getting right up the arse of other cars and then having to keep slamming their brakes on.

I reckon impatience is a contributing factor in a lot of accidents.

Leave a bigger gap and slow the fuck down a bit, its not rocket science.

Couldn`t agree more.:drink:

[gavin_d]

At the end of the day a handbrake is an emergancy brake. so yea use it.

[MartinObviously]

At the end of the day a handbrake is an emergancy brake. so yea use it.

That's not emergency use, emergency use is when you have failure of the service brakes.

It should not be used in an "emergency stop" situation, as both hands should be on the steering wheel to give you maximum control. The first thing you should do is hit the service brake as that stabilises the vehicle. Using the handbrake doesn't give you the same stability.

[gavin_d]

Very good point.

[manta]

Check post 13, that's the only situation that the handbrake should be used.

Or for deeerifting.

[Manu]

Handbrake is here to keep your car stationary, from the point when it is stationary. Unless you're on a sunday rally stage and that's about it.

Beyond that, up to you how quick you f up the tyres, strain the axle and other parts, etc.

If you need the handbrake to reduce to braking distance:
1) you're too close to the car in front
2) you're mentally incapable of estimating braking distance
3) your brakes are shite
4) your tyres are shite
5) combination of 3 & 4
6) combination of all of the above

[hellonpluto]

handbrake wiv mcd's trays ftw