1.1.. VTR Alloys.. Less Grip?

[spacehopper]

apologies if this is a bit rambly.. but..

my missus's mk2 1.1 has currently got VTR alloys fitted to the front..

(original steel wheels tyre developed a crack and i had the alloys spare..)

I was planning to fit the full set of 4 Alloys to the 1.1.. but after driving it the other day it seems to have a lot less grip at the front with the alloys fitted.. not so noticeable in the dry but very noticeable in the wet..

the back end with steel wheels seems planted in comparison..

the alloys / tyres are getting lowish on tread.. (maybe 3mm left) but were fitted to my VTR previously and gripped really well in both wet and dry on that car with the same amount of tread..

not sure if its the different suspension setup (and less weight) on the 1.1 giving less grip then i'm used to.. or just that the wider tyre and resultant different contact patch just give less grip than the thinner steel wheels would..

i dont remember my old mk1 1.1 (with steel wheels) being quite as bad in the handling department..

the tyres have 32psi in them..

what are anyone elses experiences?

would i be better off sticking the steel wheels back on with some new uniroyal rainsport's ?

[monka]

what tyres did the old steels have? what where the pressures, how old are the vtr tyres, how where they used before. how much tread was left on the steels. what tyres are the vtr alloys.

[spacehopper]

blimey..

the old steels on my old 1.1 had bargain basement brands on.. as cheap as i could get them about 5 years ago! i forget the make but it wasnt anyone id heard of before!.. they had 32PSI in and I had them from new..

on the current 1.1 i didn't run the steels for very long as i discovered the crack in the sidewall so cant really comment on their grip but they where mismatched bargain basement tyres too.. with maybe 4-5mm tread

unsure as to the age of the VTR tyres and they where just used as general driving around tyres...
i think the brand is debica or something like that.. nothing special anyway..

as said.. the alloys / debica tyres gripped fine on my VTR they just dont work anywhere near as well on the 1.1..

[mechsman]

You could try reducing the pressure a little, 32 is a bit high. Try 28 or 30psi and see if it's any better. The 1.1 is lighter so wouldn't be compressing the tyre down off the centre of the tread.

[m4tt274]

alloys have no real effect, they are wider and lighter.
Tires are your issue.

[spacehopper]

thats where i'd disagree... from lifting them... id say the wider vtr alloys and tyre are heavier than the narrower desire steel wheel wheel and tyre (though id need to measure to be sure..!) the alloys will also be stiffer in construction than the steel wheels.. which will again affect the handling


but i do agree that comparing the two.. in this case it is more to do with the differing tyre width and profile.... its just easier to say.. alloy and steel :)

but the main issue i think, is as said above the lower weight of the 1.1 at the front.. and the differing suspension design.. (anti roll bar setup, and probably spring weights) between the two cars..

which means there will be a different shape and sized contact patch when comparing the steel and alloy wheels.. and added on to that.. how the car weights the front wheels when cornering

the alloys with debica tyres gripped perfectly well and didnt crazilly understeer on the VTR like they do on the 1.1 with the same pressure in.

anyway... i digress.. i was more after real world experience of people who had put VTR alloys on their 1.1's to see if they had experience the same feeling..

i also noticed a lot less grip in the snow earlier in the year with the wider alloys on.. my old 1.1 (with narrow steels) would get up a lot of stuff other cars struggled on.. (including an ice covered steep slope in fairholmes car park in the peaks! ) but the missus's new 1.1 with the wider alloys stuggled on a fairly gentle snow covered street near where i live..

ill try 30PSI and see how that feels for now! :)

waffle over.. :D

[Chief]

Agreed the steels will be lighter. Deffo say check the pressures and adjust accordingly. More than likely just a mixture of different treads, compounds and pressures all making it feel less secure.

[Jimbob56789]

I had steels first of all on my 1.1, grip was okay, then i changed to vtr alloys and i had really good grip.. Then i had to get both front tyres replaced, and ive been understeering ever since

[1100desire]

I hated having Vtr alloys on the Desire, obviously they had 185 55 14 tyres they made the speedo under read, we're crap in the snow and the car seemed to tramline and just didn't feel good in comparison with the oe wheels.
Yes they we're correctly balanced tyres we're Cooper.