Trader F****d me over

[SimpleJoee]

So as some of you may have seen, probably not due to me being a newbie...I bought a VTS a few weeks back. So anyway jumping up to yesterday, I booked my car in for a serivice in my Uncles friends Garage near where I live. Everything went okay as for the main service side, but I asked if he could give it a little check over to see if any 'hidden' surprises lurked about. He found that the rear axle was basically fucked, excuse me if I'm wrong as I'm not the most mechanical bloke out there, but I think he said the bearings for the axle have collapsed in on itself, and I'm in need of a complete new axle.
So that got me thinking, the Guy I bought my car off was a Trader and he told me the car was completely fine, and I quote "If I'm 100% honest, the only thing wrong with the car is the exhaust squeaks a little bit, but it's fine other than that". The car came with 12 months M.O.T, had been tested on the 4th October and I bought the car on the 10th. First thoughts were how it passed the M.O.T, it was ridiculously dodgy, 5 bulbs blown/not working, both front tires were worn to shit on the inside and tracking was out, due to the torsion bar being dropped so low the back wheels have caved in a little bit, and of course the knackered axle.

So basically I'm just wondering (I've looked up on some site to check about my rights when buying from a trader) if he's screwed me over, and the Garage that performed the M.O.T, that they or he legally have to do something about this? Such as refund me my money, or pay to get the car fixed as he lied about the cars condition, and also had a dodgy test done.

Any help is really of use guys, I could do with anything at the moment as I'm unsure of my next step.

[Mickswan]

Really dodgy MOT.

I think you can get VOSA to inspect the vehicle (within certain time frames) and they can confirm if the mot was dodgy. That will be proof, from then you can contact the dealer and explain etc etc but chances are you'll get mugged off by him.

I'd get the vehicle inspected by VOSA, once that's done I would speak to trading standards for advice regarding Sale of Goods.

I'm sure VOSA would have something to say to the MOT station who issued it but that'll be up to them.

https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/problems-with-your-test-result

[Quinny1995]

I had the same problem but I got pulled over for think blue smoke coming out the back of mine driving it home from the garage, and funny thing was same day it had the mot aswell so I contacted visa and they fined the garage and I got a refund plus compensation.

[SimpleJoee]

Thanks for the advice Mick.
I decided the first thing I would do was to contact the Trader himself. As I told him the issues and the fact that no way on earth it should've passed the mot, he shat himself straight away. He said he'd pay for me to get a new rear axle fitted, and put it right but would charge me £100 for the labour, not too bad considering I would've had to spend 3 x that amount?
So just a desperate shout now, I don't want to risk getting a second hand axle and it failing on me again, and I came across this http://www.imaxle.co.uk/axles/saxo-vtr-s-vtr-s-disc-with-or-without-abs is that a good buy for money wise, or should I be looking elsewhere? If anyone experienced in Saxo axles could guide me (from what I hear about the axle issue, you should all know more than me lol) and also to note my shocks are looking a little worn to.
Another point, my car is too fucking low on the back, would getting a new rear axle come with a stock torsion bar that isn't notched down a tad?
soz4noob
Cheers guys.

[Chris_O]

If this guy will cough up for an axle, definitely go to imaxles for peace of mind. You get a short guarantee, and they will lower it exactly to your specification.

[SimpleJoee]

If this guy will cough up for an axle, definitely go to imaxles for peace of mind. You get a short guarantee, and they will lower it exactly to your specification.

If the option is available I will definitely be doing that then! :y:
But just realised, been as he acted dodgy in the first place, I'm thinking he won't cough up enough for a new axle, he'll get one from the scrappies or something.

[Chris_O]

Well say that's not good enough, and if not you will take further action

[SaxoSammyVTR]

The fact he "shat" himself is a sign he thought he could cop off a dodgy motor to you. Ive had it happen to me and just let it go so I believe you shouldnt!
Yeah he might cough up for the axle etc but who says he will do a proper job of it?
The axle on these cars is mental and he could damage a brake pipe and not fix it.

Now THATS dangerous.

[SimpleJoee]

Well say that's not good enough, and if not you will take further action

I was thinking that, but not sure if he'd bite back. My mum works for my local council and has some co-workers in Trading standards dept. so she's gunna have a word tomorrow and get the low down, scare tactics is all. I also have a friend that can make bears quiver at the sight of him, he may come in handy. :boxing:

[Mickswan]

I'd send him emails and letters so you can keep copy's for a record. Phone calls are all well and good but there's never any proof.

[SimpleJoee]

The fact he "shat" himself is a sign he thought he could cop off a dodgy motor to you. Ive had it happen to me and just let it go so I believe you shouldnt!
Yeah he might cough up for the axle etc but who says he will do a proper job of it?
The axle on these cars is mental and he could damage a brake pipe and not fix it.

Now THATS dangerous.

That was another worry, such as if he's taking it to the same garage that did the dodgy mot in the first place. But as soon as it's fitted, I'm taking it to a friends garage (who did my service last week and found the broken axle) and he's going to give it a thorough checking over to his satisfaction.

[stevo67]

I wouldn`t be paying £100 towards the labour costs,its down to the trader to bear the costs.

[gavin_d]

Defo go to vosa. Hate dodgy mot's. Just think you, freinds and loved ones could be traveling in it or around it when a defect causes a nasty crash. Imagine doing 70 on the motor way and one of them rear trailing arms callapses it WILL cause deaf. Discusts me!!!!!!

Dont get him to fit it, Dont pay him £100. It should be him paying compensation and the VTS fined and shut down.

[Ben_SaxoForte]

I wouldn`t be paying £100 towards the labour costs,its down to the trader to bear the costs.

Agree with this, you shouldn't be paying at all when it never should of passed an mot in the first place

[Manu]

In order:

VOSA(MOT Inspectorate)/trading standards/Police.

And charge you a 100 quid for labour, is he having a laugh. Car should have been fixed then passed through the MOT inn the first place, not in reverse order.

[SimpleJoee]

Defo go to vosa. Hate dodgy mot's. Just think you, freinds and loved ones could be traveling in it or around it when a defect causes a nasty crash. Imagine doing 70 on the motor way and one of them rear trailing arms callapses it WILL cause deaf. Discusts me!!!!!!

Dont get him to fit it, Dont pay him £100. It should be him paying compensation and the VTS fined and shut down.

Don't fucking say that, I drive to work on the motorway every day for 30mins! Nah lol I know, I have bared that in mind. It's settled now that he's getting the one I stated above with the 2 years warantee, and just asked for £100 labour costs. I don't mind too much, because I'd be paying about £400 to do it myself with parts/labour etc so I can't complain too much. I also want it fixed asap, and trading standards say he only has to replace the axle, he has no legal right to get new parts. So the deals pretty sweet atm guys. Thanks for you help as well, I do sincerely appreciate it. :y:

[SimpleJoee]

In order:

VOSA(MOT Inspectorate)/trading standards/Police.

And charge you a 100 quid for labour, is he having a laugh. Car should have been fixed then passed through the MOT inn the first place, not in reverse order.

I've fixed everything for the mot though, apart from the axle so I can't complain about that anymore. I know full rights he fucked me over, well and truly. But as he's offering to fix it for me now and try and make up for things, I think he's doing some sort of good. I do need it rather urgently as well, you've all seen the pothole about, and I live in the fucking proper Welsh Valleys where new tarmac is rare.

[SimpleJoee]

Oh my fucking christ, if I hadn't told him to link me what he was buying, he would've gone ahead and bought this tonight.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120844685493?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch% 2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D12084 4685493%26_rdc%3D1

I don't even...

[SimpleJoee]

Just to clarify, this is the axle that's being fitted.
http://www.axledirect.com/store/product_info.php/citroen-saxo-vts-axle-reconditioned-disc-brake-abs-models-p-116?osCsid=vhdksvcqb0rus32lvcascq5197

[SimpleJoee]

I don't understand what's going through this fucking idiots mind, he keeps coming back sending ebay links which are more expensive, come with less warantee and won't adjust to torsion bars height. Also to top it off, my fucking Dad agreed to give him £150 for fucking labour! I can't believe how much of a joke this is turning out to be...

[Bedford126]

I don't think any one is really bothered mate, Considering the last 5 posts are yourself i would just keep everything that you are typing in your mind.

[ThrushMotorsport]

I don't think any one is really bothered mate, Considering the last 5 posts are yourself i would just keep everything that you are typing in your mind.

I loled

[b0t13]

tell him the link you WANT, nothing else
tell him youll give him £100 tops as goodwill,

or he can take his 'dangerous' car back and youll get your mums mates from trading standards involved ;)

[stevo67]

Tbh the car would be going back to the trader & i`d be demanding a full refund,or i`d threaten that every authority would get involved.

[SimpleJoee]

I don't think any one is really bothered mate, Considering the last 5 posts are yourself i would just keep everything that you are typing in your mind.


I'm doing doing this for sympathy, mate. I'm posting purely as updates to look back on this thread.

[12u55]

Tell him to stop fucking about, just get an IM axel, tried and tested on here and for about 250, you can't go wrong. Give him a dead line to sort it out, or punch him in his throat then mug him.
Also, my first car was a fucking wreck, shit MOT, and fuck load of faults.
This is why you take a test drive, shake it to death on the forecourt, shake it on hills, look under the arches, sills, trays and exhausts and abuse it.
Some times, depending on the price you paid for it, it was probably cheap for a reason.

[m4tt274]

You bought a saxo with a shagged beam, plenty have done it.
Dont be mug in the future and look around a car before you buy it.
If hes going to put a beam in it, allow him, dont start pissing around telling him to buy this beam or that beam, let him buy whatever beam he wants.
Im surprised your getting a new one.

[D4MJT]

First thoughts were how it passed the M.O.T, it was ridiculously dodgy, 5 bulbs blown/not working, both front tires were worn to shit on the inside and tracking was out, due to the torsion bar being dropped so low the back wheels have caved in a little bit, and of course the knackered axle.

Sorry, but none of these are things that are easy to overlook?

The one common fault with any saxo / 106 is surely the beam, and camber gives that away.

Even if, for some bizarre reason, you had joined an owners forum but hadn't had a look at what to keep an eye out for, surely anyone buying a car would check that all the electrics / lights worked and the tyres weren't worn / suffering uneven wear due to possible suspension faults or the tracking being out before you handed the cash over?

If you had noticed these and negotiated a lower price fair enough, but it sounds a bit like you didn't really even examine the car, and now you're unhappy with it?

Tracking is neither here nor there, if the roads you live on are that bad, the tracking could easily have been knocked out in a few weeks.

It sounds to me like the trader is trying to be reasonable and replace the axle so you have a decent roadgoing car?

[MartinObviously]

Should have gone straight to VOSA. The MOT station would have been investigated and probably would have lost their ticket if other dodgy motors were found.

Axledirect... let's just say, there have been a few issues with them in the past with supplying refurb axles that aren't of satisfactory quality. At least it's the correct axle.

I wouldn't have paid him a penny. Now that he's been given money there's fuck all you can do now.


It's not up to the buyer to check the car if it's got 12 months MOT on it and it's a trader. Traders cannot "sold as seen" in the same way that a private seller can.

[SimpleJoee]

Now that he's been given money there's fuck all you can do now.

Oh, I haven't paid him a dime for the axle he's expecting when I go up to get the car done to pay him there and then.

Cba to quote, so in response to the sarcastic git stating that those flaws aren't hard to notice, where did I state I didn't notice them, hmm? I pointed out at how dodgy the mot was, not that he fucked me over with broken lights and shredded tires. Thinking I should've just bought a Standard VTR for now, cheaper all around and would've got one in much better condition than mine atm. But first car, so no biggy smalls.

[MartinObviously]

Oh, I haven't paid him a dime for the axle he's expecting when I go up to get the car done to pay him there and then.

Cba to quote, so in response to the sarcastic git stating that those flaws aren't hard to notice, where did I state I didn't notice them, hmm? I pointed out at how dodgy the mot was, not that he fucked me over with broken lights and shredded tires. Thinking I should've just bought a Standard VTR for now, cheaper all around and would've got one in much better condition than mine atm. But first car, so no biggy smalls.

Ahh my bad, don't pay him :P

trading standards will have a field day with him.

[m4tt274]

where did I state I didn't notice them, hmm? .

If you noticed these issues, why the hell did you buy it?
Really decent VTRs for sale everywhere you look, hardly like you didnt have a choice.

[Roadtiger]

Oh my goodness... I just hope the problem I just replied won't take me so long. I had MOT certificate but after a while a similar problem... So what the fuck these MOT do?? What is the point then?? Is that all about charging that £30-40??

[SimpleJoee]

If you noticed these issues, why the hell did you buy it?
Really decent VTRs for sale everywhere you look, hardly like you didnt have a choice.

Because the car cost me £890, with 6 months tax and a Full years (Dodgy or not) MOT certificate. The bulbs didn't even rack up to £10, the tires were needed anyway due to bad condition all over, not just because of the tracking. As I'm friends with the Owner of the garage, he just charged me for the new tires that's it. If you're whining why I bought it with the broken axle, I obviously didn't have time when I bought the car to set it up on ramps and have a look. It made no knocks or bangs while driving, so who was to know.
I found out on the 9th of October I was due to start my Job on the 11th, so no I didn't exactly have the most broadened of choices if I still wanted a VTS.

[stevo67]

Isn`t it time this thread was locked & the op moved on & learned from his mistake?

[SimpleJoee]

Isn`t it time this thread was locked & the op moved on & learned from his mistake?

The axle is being fitted Friday, so I have moved on so to speak. I got the car I always wanted, for my first car anyway. It's not in perfect condition, but with time and a little wonga can easily turn this frown upside down. :y:

[stevo67]

The axle is being fitted Friday, so I have moved on so to speak. I got the car I always wanted, for my first car anyway. It's not in perfect condition, but with time and a little wonga can easily turn this frown upside down. :y:

Ok wasn`t having a pop,i`ve been there with a old metro which was fine driving home,my mechanic took it for a run & it popped an engine mount.:drink:

[SimpleJoee]

Ok wasn`t having a pop,i`ve been there with a old metro which was fine driving home,my mechanic took it for a run & it popped an engine mount.:drink:

Yep those hidden surprises kill us all don't they. :n:
God my mum had two metro's, both of them committed suicide one way or another.

[D4MJT]

Oh, I haven't paid him a dime for the axle he's expecting when I go up to get the car done to pay him there and then.

Cba to quote, so in response to the sarcastic git stating that those flaws aren't hard to notice, where did I state I didn't notice them, hmm? I pointed out at how dodgy the mot was, not that he fucked me over with broken lights and shredded tires. Thinking I should've just bought a Standard VTR for now, cheaper all around and would've got one in much better condition than mine atm. But first car, so no biggy smalls.

I'm far from being sarcastic.

If this car came with "12 months MOT" did it not occur to you at the very outset that the MOT was clearly dodgy, as the lights didn't work and the tyres were bald? That's car buying basics never mind MOT check basics.

I've re-read your post and you now state that it's your first car, if that's correct then that's understandable as you may well not have known these things, but it's going to be better to explain that than call people names.

2 years down the line if you went to buy a car with dodgy lights, bald tyres and 12 months MOT, you'd run a mile, or pay very little money and accept that it was hooky. End of.

[DaCrazyOne]

Because the car cost me £890, with 6 months tax and a Full years (Dodgy or not) MOT certificate. The bulbs didn't even rack up to £10, the tires were needed anyway due to bad condition all over, not just because of the tracking. As I'm friends with the Owner of the garage, he just charged me for the new tires that's it. If you're whining why I bought it with the broken axle, I obviously didn't have time when I bought the car to set it up on ramps and have a look. It made no knocks or bangs while driving, so who was to know.
I found out on the 9th of October I was due to start my Job on the 11th, so no I didn't exactly have the most broadened of choices if I still wanted a VTS.

You paid how much. Id be going back to them dumping the car taking them of trading standards and also taking legal action at a small claims court to recover the full amount and any expenses paid out.

If you where looking for a VTS I Might conciser selling mine haven't decided yet as still doing bits to it tempted to sell but at same time still having fun in it overtaking stupid boy racers thinking they know how to drive lol. Then again am just as bad at times but am not so called over kill I enjoy a nice little race here n their and on roads that are quite not built up areas.

http://i.imgur.com/gTOiDac.jpg 2003 model 1 owner and had 51k mile on the clock when I got it.

If you do get to take legal action and or considering buying a VTS do let me know ill have a good search for you and throw you some results. Just a shame to see people get hit by dodgy car dealers. Then again I cant say much this had 1 month tax and MOT done in may claimed to be no faults.

Got him down on asking price. However needed full brake disc and pads front and back, near side cv boot. Oil change oil filter, air filter, cam belt doing. Bottom crank pulley wheel sort of thing for cam belt bottom crank me thinks cant think of the name some cog lol, spark plugs, and a few other bits and bobs and it come with a full 12 month MOT how the f do people get away with sticking ticket on them. I think every single garage needs to be checked over by spy people where they go in with a car knowing its not upto MOT pass and take to every garage and do a sting operation.

[SimpleJoee]

You paid how much. Id be going back to them dumping the car taking them of trading standards and also taking legal action at a small claims court to recover the full amount and any expenses paid out.


I would go ahead with that process, but I've myself spoken to people within Trading Standards and there's not much win I could get out of it. I got told I could take him to court for it, as well as the Garage because let's face it they were both breaking the law. But I would probably only be redunded for the amount I paid for the car (£890) and not any other expences, and that was the best outcome. So I figure I'm paying £150 for now, to get a Recon axle fitted with 2 years garantee isn't so bad, considering if I was doing it myself without the trader forking out cash, I'd be looking at bare minimum £400.

Another reason I want to keep the car, is the fact it's a nice project car for myself as I'm not very good with them, but doing suttle mods here and there is where we all begin right? A nice little tidy up on the exterior and she'll be looking much better!
I love those wannabe boy racers, pretty sure 95% of them are in 1.2 Corsa Comforts too lol. Annoying on times, almost anyone around 17-25 tries to give it ago, petrol isn't cheap you know. :n:

[DaCrazyOne]

I would go ahead with that process, but I've myself spoken to people within Trading Standards and there's not much win I could get out of it. I got told I could take him to court for it, as well as the Garage because let's face it they were both breaking the law. But I would probably only be redunded for the amount I paid for the car (£890) and not any other expences, and that was the best outcome. So I figure I'm paying £150 for now, to get a Recon axle fitted with 2 years garantee isn't so bad, considering if I was doing it myself without the trader forking out cash, I'd be looking at bare minimum £400.

Another reason I want to keep the car, is the fact it's a nice project car for myself as I'm not very good with them, but doing suttle mods here and there is where we all begin right? A nice little tidy up on the exterior and she'll be looking much better!
I love those wannabe boy racers, pretty sure 95% of them are in 1.2 Corsa Comforts too lol. Annoying on times, almost anyone around 17-25 tries to give it ago, petrol isn't cheap you know. :n:

Agreed their on the 1.2 Corsa's lol and well funny you should say about petrol prices as theirs a petrol price war going on with supermarkets atm and Tesco are at 126.7 also Salisbury 126.9p and their Super is down to £1.31.... 2 weeks ago £1.31 was the price for normal if the prices keep on jumping down by 6p a Liter at supermarkets then am filling the tank up with super . Cant believe prices coming down just in time for Christmas lol.

[SimpleJoee]

Agreed their on the 1.2 Corsa's lol and well funny you should say about petrol prices as theirs a petrol price war going on with supermarkets atm and Tesco are at 126.7 also Salisbury 126.9p and their Super is down to £1.31.... 2 weeks ago £1.31 was the price for normal if the prices keep on jumping down by 6p a Liter at supermarkets then am filling the tank up with super . Cant believe prices coming down just in time for Christmas lol.

Christ I know mate, it's dropping rapidly by me! I saw £1.27.6 in texaco I think it was last night, soon enough I'll be like my dad when he first started driving, £10 and you're tank is full haha!

[Manu]

They probably noticed the increase of people who put only 3-4 quid at a time, and the general drop in sales.

I love those wannabe boy racers, pretty sure 95% of them are in 1.2 Corsa Comforts too lol. Annoying on times, almost anyone around 17-25 tries to give it ago, petrol isn't cheap you know.

Who said you have to race the boyracers, of course they don't pay for your petrol. No point in showing them who has the faster car when everyone knows it in the first place. They're merely ragging around in their puny engined, credit card financed shitboxes. I love to look down on the car then on them and smirk/chuckle, much more effective when you're not giving them the satisfaction of giving them a race, but instead mentally crush the little ego that's hiding inside the penis extension.

A little dismissive look and a chuckle is all you need most of the time. Brings a straight result, and very much more fuel efficient.

[SimpleJoee]

but instead mentally crush the little ego that's hiding inside the penis extension.

Made my day.

I've only raced the one, purely because I went to school with him and he's one of those utter tossers, who started smoking thinking it was 'cool'. He still tries to race me off the lights when we bump into each other, I just...

[Prickle]

Made my day.

I've only raced the one, purely because I went to school with him and he's one of those utter tossers, who started smoking thinking it was 'cool'. He still tries to race me off the lights when we bump into each other, I just...

*sigh*

[MartinObviously]

I remember cruising about in my 106 GTi one evening when I spotted a regular chavvy/barry in his corsa comfort - who is well known for driving like a twat 100% of the time.

side by side at red lights, he was in the "fast" lane.

guess what, he didn't even put his foot down. Cos he knows my car would have humped his .



Moral of the story. There isn't, people with shit cars know it. Unless they are deluded of course.