car sounds like a tractor and having to rev to 5-6k for it to move

[ldavies]

Ok guys yet another problem, beginning to be a regular accourance now.
Driving car tonight and after I started it up to set off there were just no power and car struggled to move away, had to get revs up to 3-4K to even get the car to move, car had no power and car sounded bad, not even a nice sound.

Fuel filter was changed last week and car has been hesitating ever since, could the filter be on wrong way, and would it cause this?

Thanks again guys

[ldavies]

Well the next day I moved the car across the street still doing it, moved the other car off the drive then got back in the 106 and it had gone.
Then yesterday I was driving back from work got up to about 65-70 and it just all of a sudden came back, then went after a few mins, then today I went for dinner all ok, turned car on and it started doing it then just went again.

Obviously this is coming and going so:

After a lot of digging in the bay today it turns out:

Map sensor cables ( loom ) has 3, the yellow one was melted and hanging on by a thread,

Exhaust blowing

So need to get another map sensor plug for the loom as its right on the end near the plug.

Would the map sensor be causing this not the exhaust blowing.

Car has started to hesitate obviously that's the exhaust as I found out tonight.

[ldavies]

Happened again tonight then soon as I got over 3k revs then it went.

[stevo67]

Map sensor can affect the revs yes,your running on a standard ecu or aftermarket?

[ldavies]

Map sensor can affect the revs yes,your running on a standard ecu or aftermarket?

Standard ecu unmapped Steve with stock injectors.
Did have to solder the map sensor wire last week wonder if it's a poor connection with it been so close to the plug.

[stevo67]

Only a guess but i'm thinking the ecu may be in limp mode hence the revs problem.fix the map sensor first as that gives similar symptoms,then see where you are mate.

[ldavies]

Only a guess but i'm thinking the ecu may be in limp mode hence the revs problem.fix the map sensor first as that gives similar symptoms,then see where you are mate.

Will do mate thanks, just out of interest what does limp mode do to the car and how can it be removed.

[stevo67]

Limp mode in theory limits the revs so that if the ecu detects a fault it can impose this mode to stop further damage to the engine.you need to fix the fault then erase the code/s for the ecu to revert back to normal mode.

[ldavies]

Could this maybe the fuel pump guys as its started again today

[stevo67]

Could this maybe the fuel pump guys as its started again today

Give the body of the fuel pump a gentle tap with a rubber mallet,if it works ok afterwards then you have a faulty pump.:geek:

[Alex]

Might be worth changing anyway with the supercharger.
I put a walbro in mine.

[vincent1]

regarding post 1 have you double checked the fuel filter is fitted the correct way? it could be restricting the flow over certain rev range ie drop in fuel pressure seems odd this has happened since fitting the new filter.

[ldavies]

regarding post 1 have you double checked the fuel filter is fitted the correct way? it could be restricting the flow over certain rev range ie drop in fuel pressure seems odd this has happened since fitting the new filter.

Funningly enough mate I did think about swapping it round as the point of the arrow is facing the front of the car but I've seen them facing the other way also???

[ldavies]

This is mine

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk247/lee2806/CE7743B6-C0CA-4A87-9197-282BCD03A7DA_zpsdynecaqp.jpg (http://s282.photobucket.com/user/lee2806/media/CE7743B6-C0CA-4A87-9197-282BCD03A7DA_zpsdynecaqp.jpg.html)

Then this one I found on net has a t-piece

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk247/lee2806/E20C0A18-5596-46AB-9103-509B5BB575D3_zps23ophbjn.png (http://s282.photobucket.com/user/lee2806/media/E20C0A18-5596-46AB-9103-509B5BB575D3_zps23ophbjn.png.html)

[stevo67]

The arrow should be pointing to the front of the car,as that's the direction the fuel is travelling.

[ldavies]

Well guys finally found the answer to my problems I've been having.

Had a mate run a diagnostic on car and its bought up:

Misfire on cylinders 1 and 4
Map sensor fault
Coil pack fault

So time to get some new spark plugs, I thought I had new ones fitted but looking at the paperwork I don't believe new plugs were fitted so the ones that are in it are more than likely the ones that were in the engine when I bought the donor one.
Also need a new coil pack and I have another map sensor on its way.

Can anyone recommend me a good set of plugs for my boosted build, and anyone that has the atspeed coil pack, opinions please.

Thanks to everyone that replied

[Alex]

I'd need to check what I've got but for boost I think I you'd want NGK BCR8ES plugs

[ldavies]

I'd need to check what I've got but for boost I think I you'd want NGK BCR8ES plugs

Brill thanks for the fast reply Alex, do you happen to no who currently sells these?

[Synister]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/111733756529?adgroupid=13585920426&hlpht=true&hlpv=2&rlsatarget=kwd-131843276466&adtype=pla&ff3=1&lpid=122&poi=&ul_noapp=true&limghlpsr=true&ff19=0&device=c&chn=ps&campaignid=207297426&crdt=0&ff12=67&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff14=122&viphx=1&ops=true&ff13=80

http://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/ngk-spark-plug-bcr8es

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pv-78034-ngk-spark-plug-bcr8es-ngk-5430-4-pack.aspx

Take your pick! I think Opie does 10% saxp discount.

[flev93]

did you fix this mate, i have same issue! driving me mad!

[flev93]

The arrow should be pointing to the front of the car,as that's the direction the fuel is travelling.

mines facing the boot, i have same issue!

[ldavies]

did you fix this mate, i have same issue! driving me mad!

I thought I had solved it mate, had a diagnostic done and it picked up a misfire on cylinder 1 and 4, map
Sensor and coil pack fault so replaced all as well as new plugs but still have the problem.

I have spoken to many tuning companies and garages and they are all unsure of this except for 1 spoox motorsport.
I had a good chat with these today and the symptoms I described and the bad idling they believe my bottom cam pulley could ha damaged or has moved the woodruff key a few mms causing the timing to be out.
They believe this happens on around 6/10 pugs.

Also a friend suggested the rocker covers could be leaking causing oil into the plug / coil pack area.

[ldavies]

mines facing the boot, i have same issue!

Plus 1 mate I'm now around 99 percent swaying towards calling it a day with it

[flev93]

same mate, i may just sell up ive spent easy £300 trying to fix it!

[ldavies]

same mate, i may just sell up ive spent easy £300 trying to fix it!

What exactly have you changed mate. Is it doing what mine is doing?

[ldavies]

So car had the problem again today but noticed that when I parked up and the car was idling after a min or 2 the revs shot up to 1500rpm then bounced back down to 1k then it it disappeared

[stevo67]

Revs shooting up could be a vacuum leak,check the pipes over.

[ldavies]

Revs shooting up could be a vacuum leak,check the pipes over.

Is it just the vacuum hose from the brake servo to the inlet mani and then the one from map sensor to charcoal canister Steve?

[stevo67]

I believe so,but I have not a lot of knowledge with your engine.Have you ever run the car with a different ecu,ie a standalone one?

[ldavies]

I believe so,but I have not a lot of knowledge with your engine.Have you ever run the car with a different ecu,ie a standalone one?

I did on the old engine set up mate but this one is just the stock ecu

[ldavies]

Just been looking through old paperwork and invoices and noticed that when the garage fitted the engine it wouldn't fire up as iirc one of injectors was in wrong way I believe but then he said he had sealed injector but had a leak from fuel rail so had to come back off again.
Due to car having a bad idle and smelling of fuel I'm swaying to the injectors mate, even more now he says he sealed one up what ever hese done.

[djx11b]

I had a running gremlin on my Saxo vts turbo build. Tried loads of sensor and different things turned out to be my injectors were sometimes not firing correctly or at all. Mines weren't standard but pico copies so I ditched them and got genuine pico ones.

May be a similar issue so be worth checking fuel rail and injectors and swapping them for another set. I got a company to check the injectors and you could tell straight away they were not working correctly on the test.

[ldavies]

I had a running gremlin on my Saxo vts turbo build. Tried loads of sensor and different things turned out to be my injectors were sometimes not firing correctly or at all. Mines weren't standard but pico copies so I ditched them and got genuine pico ones.

May be a similar issue so be worth checking fuel rail and injectors and swapping them for another set. I got a company to check the injectors and you could tell straight away they were not working correctly on the test.

Cheers for the heads up mate, Ye I'm swaying towards injectors even more so now I no he sealed one of them when fitted them, also they weren't new so could have been dodgy to start with, and would also affect the idling.
I have always had a fuel smell in and on outside of car.

Also I had the cheaper version 490cc ones but decided to sell them and just fork out the extra on a genuine set.

Will investigate

[rey]

Fuel smell would suggest a dodgy/leaking injector to me.

Get them swapped, and get the car mapped for the charger.

[flev93]

I changed my injectors didn't make a difference mate, altogether I've changed :

fuel pump,fuel filter, injectors, fuel rail, fuel reg, icv tps knock sensor lambda coilpack thermostat sensors, fuel relay, pickup, spark plugs, ignition barrel, changed engine to jp4s, only thing I ain't changed is loom and ecu! I'm lost for words why I ain't fixed it!!

it must be the ecu coilpack drivers or somthing similar!

if you fix yours please tell me haha!

[ldavies]

I changed my injectors didn't make a difference mate, altogether I've changed :

fuel pump,fuel filter, injectors, fuel rail, fuel reg, icv tps knock sensor lambda coilpack thermostat sensors, fuel relay, pickup, spark plugs, ignition barrel, changed engine to jp4s, only thing I ain't changed is loom and ecu! I'm lost for words why I ain't fixed it!!

it must be the ecu coilpack drivers or somthing similar!

if you fix yours please tell me haha!

Can't you borrow a loom and ecu off someone that's willing to take it off while u try it on yours.

As for mine mate I'm having the welding done sat so will wip the injectors off and have a look but now I no he had to seal one I'm thinking injectors, this problem is either fuel related or a vacuum leak issue.

[Alex]

I had a random misfire which was an injector, changed to magneti marelli and has been OK since.
You need to get it up to John for mapping!!

[ldavies]

I had a random misfire which was an injector, changed to magneti marelli and has been OK since.
You need to get it up to John for mapping!!

Ye just need to source some stock injectors to try it until I get it mapped and have the 490cc ones fitted.
Could do with getting it to John but I'm not too sure he wants it with all the problems lol.

[flev93]

bought a unlocked ecu to try:/ just money money money all the time at the moment!!

[ldavies]

bought a unlocked ecu to try:/ just money money money all the time at the moment!!

True mate, I no the feeling.
I've just bough another set of injectors, fuel rail with loom, and fpr to try out see if it cures my problem.

Will update when they arrive and are fitted.

[flev93]

i just got my ecu, ill post results tomorrow for you! my local mapping company thinks could be drivers in ecu for coilpack so..

if not its going in for live testing. another £100

[flev93]

tried unlocked ecu still same only thing left for me is engine loom! -.-

[ldavies]

tried unlocked ecu still same only thing left for me is engine loom! -.-

That's unlucky mate, I had my lower cross member welded back up to where it should be today at garage, and when I got there and fired car up it made the noise again and mechanic said he is certain it's a vacuum leak causing it, even more so when the revs shot up to 1.5k the other day then dropped to1k and it went.
Anyway when he took the inlet off he noticed one of the injectors clips from the plug wasn't on properly and we thought that was the problem but on way back soon as I bang the accelerater pedal to the floor to get up to speed it did it again, twice in around 2 miles.

[tiger1983]

I had a horrible misfire problem for ages, making the car sound like a tractor! I changed fuel pump, fuel regulator, injectors, every single engine sensor but it wasn't until I changed the icv, map and knock sensor til the problem was fixed....knock sensors don't throw out codes either as far as I know and are responsible for the timing adjustment so may also be worth checking

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[ldavies]

I had a horrible misfire problem for ages, making the car sound like a tractor! I changed fuel pump, fuel regulator, injectors, every single engine sensor but it wasn't until I changed the icv, map and knock sensor til the problem was fixed....knock sensors don't throw out codes either as far as I know and are responsible for the timing adjustment so may also be worth checking

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Cheers mate will wait till the injectors, rail, loom and fpr arrive then I can fit them and check the vacuum hoses on the inlet at the same time the inlets off.
If this dosent cute the problem I will try the icv, and knock sensor.
Thanks

[flev93]

I had a horrible misfire problem for ages, making the car sound like a tractor! I changed fuel pump, fuel regulator, injectors, every single engine sensor but it wasn't until I changed the icv, map and knock sensor til the problem was fixed....knock sensors don't throw out codes either as far as I know and are responsible for the timing adjustment so may also be worth checking

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changed all them sensors:/

[tiger1983]

changed all them sensors:/
Lambda, green temp sensor? May sound stupid but my lambda went up the shoot before the misfire occurred, I replaced the green sensor at the same time. As for your previous comment about the loom, get a pin out for the ecu and probe the wires for continuity, give you a rough idea if where the problem is (if it is the loom) if it's any help, I've got a pin out for a single plug vts ecu. Also check for air leaks, fuel starvation, tps could even be damaged at a certain range, mine missed at around 2 - 3k (emission test area) which got me thinking the tps was up the shoot

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[flev93]

yes I changed all sensors for ones off a running engine and the inlet of a different car! so what's the chance of having the same sensor broken on the two engines?

that diagram would help a lot.

mines missing as the same revs 2-3k anything over is fine. soon as I stop just dies idles up and down for a while then revs drop so low it dies? don't know if it's related?

where shall I check for air leaks? and where to check for fuel starvation as I've changed pump filter injectors fuel rail fpr?

thanks for help

[tiger1983]

yes I changed all sensors for ones off a running engine and the inlet of a different car! so what's the chance of having the same sensor broken on the two engines?

that diagram would help a lot.

mines missing as the same revs 2-3k anything over is fine. soon as I stop just dies idles up and down for a while then revs drop so low it dies? don't know if it's related?

where shall I check for air leaks? and where to check for fuel starvation as I've changed pump filter injectors fuel rail fpr?

thanks for help
Check round the intake for any leaks, also the pipe going to the carbon canister in the drivers wing.
I'm uploading some files into one drive and dropbox tomorrow so if you want I can send a link when it's done. It's a zip file of the pin out for a single plug ecu (IAW 1AP.41) and alsorts of tests that could be useful....I'll try to remember to check her tomorrow for anyone wanting the details

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[AntscVTR]

I have this problem with my VTS. Its on and off, sometimes the car has full power and runs as sweet as a nut, sometimes it struggles to start/set off and when like this it sounds horrendous. I changed the headgasket, coilpack, most sensors and the problem was still on and off. When putting the car back together for the 5th time I noticed when I wiggled the loom from the ECU the problem would appear then disappear, its replicable so I presume the engine loom has a break or multiple breaks giving dodgy readings to the ecu from whichever sensors are affected. It sounds like some guys here could have the same issue.

[flev93]

Check round the intake for any leaks, also the pipe going to the carbon canister in the drivers wing.
I'm uploading some files into one drive and dropbox tomorrow so if you want I can send a link when it's done. It's a zip file of the pin out for a single plug ecu (IAW 1AP.41) and alsorts of tests that could be useful....I'll try to remember to check her tomorrow for anyone wanting the details

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Carbon canister has been disconnect /pipe cut? if it makes any diffrance!

[flev93]

I have this problem with my VTS. Its on and off, sometimes the car has full power and runs as sweet as a nut, sometimes it struggles to start/set off and when like this it sounds horrendous. I changed the headgasket, coilpack, most sensors and the problem was still on and off. When putting the car back together for the 5th time I noticed when I wiggled the loom from the ECU the problem would appear then disappear, its replicable so I presume the engine loom has a break or multiple breaks giving dodgy readings to the ecu from whichever sensors are affected. It sounds like some guys here could have the same issue.


have you changed your loom yet? to make sure it is 100% faulty

[tiger1983]

Carbon canister has been disconnect /pipe cut? if it makes any diffrance!
What's happened with the solenoid that would of been sat in the wing? As far as I know that's a one way valve, I did have mine disconnected and it throw up fault codes but someone suggested to block off the pipe AFTER the solenoid so it still registered it was there and not throw out any fault codes, also the pipe joins the intake around the map sensor area so any extra air intake is going to fool the map

Anyway if any good to anyone, dropbox link for info I keep, it's all based on a SINGLE PLUG ecu from 1999 vts, including alarm fitting, some auto data screen shots aswell for testing various sensors so could be some help to people......let me know if there's any problems accessing it as never usually use dropbox

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tnmy5m2wa9l9fi6/VTS%20TESTS?dl=0

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[Synister]

Cheers Tiger.

I'm having idle issues when the cars hot and overfueling issues. I'll have a good look through that and see if any of it applies to the TU2J2

[ldavies]

So another set of injectors, loom and fuel rail with fpr arrived today.
Just swapped them over with the old set and took the car straight out.
Didn't do the problem I've been having on start up or even if I press accelerate pedal to get up to speed quick.
Hopefully this as cured the problem but only tomorrow will tell when I start the car in the morning.

[tiger1983]

Cheers Tiger.

I'm having idle issues when the cars hot and overfueling issues. I'll have a good look through that and see if any of it applies to the TU2J2

Not a problem, rallye engine? I think they're single plug ecu with 2 rows....mines the vts single plug 3 rows but I would think the tests for sensors etc will all be the same so hopefully some use to you.... I'd be looking at injectors for over fuelling but also lambda, possible bad mixture which if the idles bad when it's hot

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[Synister]

Not a problem, rallye engine? I think they're single plug ecu with 2 rows....mines the vts single plug 3 rows but I would think the tests for sensors etc will all be the same so hopefully some use to you.... I'd be looking at injectors for over fuelling but also lambda, possible bad mixture which if the idles bad when it's hot

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Funny enough, the Lambda is the last thing I have to change. Reason being, I traced the lambda wire back to the connection and it's a generic pug loom connector. Any I see for sale online are either 2 plug or else they have a different looking connector to mine.

So far, my journey to solve the issue has went through:

NGK BKR6EK Spark Plug x 4 - 1/9/15 *
HT Leads - 1/9/15
Bosch Oil Filter - 1/9/15, 29/9/15 *
Bosch Fuel Filter - 9/10/15 *
Idle control valve - 26/11/15 *
MAP Sensor - 26/11/15 *
Coolant temperature sensor - 11/12/15 *
Oil pressure switch - 11/12/15 *
Radiator fan temperature switch - 4/11/15
Thermostat & gasket - 1/10/15 *
Rocker cover gasket - 29/9/15 *
Lucas Alternator - 16/9/15 *
Loom tidied and electrics given the once over by Lisburn Car Electrics - 16/9/15 *
Aux belt - 1/9/15 *
Battery (Bosch S4) - 1/9/15 *
Battery earth cable - 15/9/15 *
Gearbox earth cable - 15/9/15 *

along with

FORTE Advanced fuel treatment - 9/10/15 *
FORTE Specialist injector cleaner - 16/10/15 *
Wynns Injector Cleaner - 1/9/15 *

[Synister]

And a new TPS too^

[tiger1983]

Funny enough, the Lambda is the last thing I have to change. Reason being, I traced the lambda wire back to the connection and it's a generic pug loom connector. Any I see for sale online are either 2 plug or else they have a different looking connector to mine.

So far, my journey to solve the issue has went through:

NGK BKR6EK Spark Plug x 4 - 1/9/15 *
HT Leads - 1/9/15
Bosch Oil Filter - 1/9/15, 29/9/15 *
Bosch Fuel Filter - 9/10/15 *
Idle control valve - 26/11/15 *
MAP Sensor - 26/11/15 *
Coolant temperature sensor - 11/12/15 *
Oil pressure switch - 11/12/15 *
Radiator fan temperature switch - 4/11/15
Thermostat & gasket - 1/10/15 *
Rocker cover gasket - 29/9/15 *
Lucas Alternator - 16/9/15 *
Loom tidied and electrics given the once over by Lisburn Car Electrics - 16/9/15 *
Aux belt - 1/9/15 *
Battery (Bosch S4) - 1/9/15 *
Battery earth cable - 15/9/15 *
Gearbox earth cable - 15/9/15 *

along with

FORTE Advanced fuel treatment - 9/10/15 *
FORTE Specialist injector cleaner - 16/10/15 *
Wynns Injector Cleaner - 1/9/15 *
Definitely look at lambda and possible even crank sensor....my crank sensor was replaced same time as my lambda but the scanner showed I had problems somewhere on the spark and injectors, new crank and fixed the problem but it reoccured with a broken injector and I ended up having to replace every other sensor as well to get rid of the misfire, didn't cure it til I change map, knock and icv all at the same time
And a new TPS too^


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[Synister]

I'll get them ordered up after Christmas. I can't be throwing any more money at the car at the minute. It's not like I use it everyday, in the last 16 months it's covered 470miles!

[flev93]

okay guys I fixed my issue today after changing everything bar the loom, put the car on the rolling road for live testing! turned out to be a fuse that controls lambda reading! was blown now drives like a dream!! I was amazed that it was only a fuse that made mines miss so bad! check your fuses!!

[Synister]

I didn't think there was a fuse that was for just the lambda?

[flev93]

i didnt either, but my lambda was on and off, when live testing was taking place!

so he put a pulse machine on there(like a life support machine) and it was all over the shop.

and he changed a fuse, under the bonnet and BAM! drove spot on! and lambda was reading perfect.

but i had already changed the lambda so i didnt think it would be the problem..

but i changed everything, i.e fuel pump, fuel filter, plugs coilpack fuel rail injectors fpr injector loom, knock sensor, temp sensors, icv tps fuel relay, also tried unlocked ecu, even put jp4s engine in with all new sensors! but it was a 10p fuse! couldnt believe it my self!!