Group N + Coilovers = No Suspension

[boylin]

We have some coilovers fitted to our VTS and we noticed it was quite bouncy when braking on a track, so we jacked the leg up and it hits the bump stops in the dampers before the spring compresses, you can still turn the spring by hand.

So we lifted the spring up using the rings on the legs, but the car was quite high with a large gap between the wheel and the arch, but it was much better than before on he track and it had some front suspension, but it's too high on the front. With the spring at the lowest setting, the car is the perfect height but has no travel on the springs and sits on the damper bump stops.

It's almost as though the dampers are too long but they are bilstein group n, and we have baker bm top mounts. What's up with it, anyone help?

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i200/boylin/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsctbwogt9.jpeg

[Mickswan]

Sounds like you'll need to use helper springs. Correct me if I'm wrong like.

[welshpug]

group n stuff is rally so will sits much higher than a "track car"

[boylin]

group n stuff is rally so will sits much higher than a "track car"

We've got the group n Tarmac dampers, thought Tarmac was for track and gravel was for rally?

[boylin]

Here's a pic of our Group N dampers showing the length, don't suppose someone else happens to have done the same with some other dampers that gives a lowered ride height?

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i200/boylin/boylin066/IMG_0084_zpsdy8ddkgk.jpg

[welshpug]

no, tarmac is for tarmac, not track.

[willsy]

Bilstein Group N's are not designed to be low atall.

The best dampers to use to run low with a custom coilover setup is the pugsport group N's if you can find any. They are able to be shortened aswel if necessary.

[westwell_22]

So what's the lowest you can go on the Grp N's? if any lower at all?

Reading this thread makes me think I'll be selling mine if I can't even go down at least 30mm.

Anyone know the max spring rate they can take?

[KamRacing]

Try running the top mounts on the top of the inner arch instead of underneath. See if that allows more travel with a correct ride height. Bilstein Group N dampers have a slightly longer piston than the B8 damper. You could sell these and go for a custom setup but its not cheap for Bilstein to revalve dampers...Might still be cheaper than the official Pugsport ones.

Kev

[westwell_22]

Bilstein Group N dampers have a slightly longer piston than the B8 damper.

Kev

Can the Grp N handle a 30mm drop/250lb spring? or would I be better going for B8's with lower spring rate and slightly more travel from the damper. (car will be fast road/track)

[KamRacing]

Plenty of customers have run 30mm lower. Have you fitted a bump stop or anything like that? If so it has an internal one so you need to take it off. As I mentioned yesterday, move the top mount too if you can to the opposite side to gain more suspension travel. I did that on my 205 without any problems whatsoever.

[westwell_22]

Plenty of customers have run 30mm lower. Have you fitted a bump stop or anything like that? If so it has an internal one so you need to take it off. As I mentioned yesterday, move the top mount too if you can to the opposite side to gain more suspension travel. I did that on my 205 without any problems whatsoever.

Think you may have me confused with the op? Although I may have hijacked his thread a little:oops:

[KamRacing]

i didnt notice lol
I would say the Group N will handle up to around 200lb (http://www.kamracing.co.uk/car-tuning/citroen/citroen-saxo/saxo-suspension/shock-absorbers/bilstein-group-n-tarmac-dampers-citroen-saxo.html). People are using it on higher spring rates but I would say its not really valved for that.

I would use max 180lb spring at the front if running standard torsion bars. Focus on where the car is used most and tailor it for that. It might not be the best then on circuit but you will have far better traction day to day.