BHP means nothing......

[NOFX]

Hey there,

I was having a chat with a mate last night and he said that BHP is actually a bad way to measure a cars preformace. He was saying that the cars ft-lb is far more important than the BHP. He said that its torque that gets you off the line and its bhp that gives you more top end (not as in 150mph). He said that bhp is important but just not as important as ft-lb. Do you agree?

So why when we talk about cars do we always say how much bhp?

cheers Tom

[Talon]

yes, it is more important but horsepower figures look better when you come to sell your car.

[Leo]

I belive he is correct and the reason he asks bhp (problely) as this is a figure most know, hence on ebay is asks the car power (bhp) and not the torque

[bullit]

yeah hes right, its all about the torque

[NOFX]

some other people i have asked say that torque is for pulling caravans and bhp wins races, they say take for instance the honda type r 2.0 0-60 6.4 seconds 200bho but only 128ft lb or something.

[bullit]

turbos and superchargers have the torque

[Talon]

a wise man once told me "bhp sells cars, torque wins races"

[hesslevtr]

torque is like a pull so the more you have the better pull it has

bhp is for top end

[Leo]

a wise man once told me "bhp sells cars, torque wins races"

I like that, noted.

[babers]

take diseals they may be slow off the mark but they have loads of torque witch is good for rapid overtaking and good towers aswell

[srcnix]

a wise man once told me "bhp sells cars, torque wins races"

Good quote, noted.

[DevilDamo]

But... it's all about power at the WHEELS and not power at the FLY :)

[vtrchris64]

so what is the actual difference? surely if a civic type r can get to 60 in like 6.5 seconds it must have alot of pulling power or am i being dumb here lol

[bullit]

torque is lower down and bhp is higher up. a type r going up a hill wanting to speed up will have to change gear where a car will loads of torque wont

[Hanuman]

a mec or pro needs to word it all properly, but bhp and torque fiqures normally relate, its not often from wot i know you see 200bhp and 95lb torque

or 500lb torque and 100bhp just doesnt work

torque you feel ie diesels are all torque and no bhp (not as much), heres my experience

brothers vectra tdi 100bhp about 160lb torque i think roughly

my old almera gti 150bhp and about 135 torque i think, now in a straight line - 100mph i would be pulling away, although change the situation

sitting at 70mph if hes in 5th and im in 5th, both gonna around 3k very low, if we both put foot down on accelerator hed pull away as hes got Torque (and very low down + turbo) where as i wouldnt as my power band would be from 4.5-7.5 yet if i wanted and dropped it down to 3rd gear id be at around just under 5k then floored it to 7.5 he wouldnt pull at all.

in my theory torque is great to have in a day to day drive, but for performance or fun, you just drop it a gear and get into the power band if the situation came you needed to,

[S34MER]

i totally agree, its torque that you feel, torque is what boosts you off the mark, as your mate said! he is spot on mate!

[NOFX]

a mec or pro needs to word it all properly, but bhp and torque fiqures normally relate, its not often from wot i know you see 200bhp and 95lb torque

or 500lb torque and 100bhp just doesnt work

torque you feel ie diesels are all torque and no bhp (not as much), heres my experience

brothers vectra tdi 100bhp about 160lb torque i think roughly

my old almera gti 150bhp and about 135 torque i think, now in a straight line - 100mph i would be pulling away, although change the situation

sitting at 70mph if hes in 5th and im in 5th, both gonna around 3k very low, if we both put foot down on accelerator hed pull away as hes got Torque (and very low down + turbo) where as i wouldnt as my power band would be from 4.5-7.5 yet if i wanted and dropped it down to 3rd gear id be at around just under 5k then floored it to 7.5 he wouldnt pull at all.

in my theory torque is great to have in a day to day drive, but for performance or fun, you just drop it a gear and get into the power band if the situation came you needed to,

so torque would give you power throughout ur rev range however bhp is the power at the high end of your revs

[Hanuman]

think so, torque is like a pull, you feel a torque car at low revs when you floor it move you, where as bhp you dont feel it as instant as its normally higher revs you need to be in, could be talkin complete poo and wrong but thats how i see it any ways but like i said you cant have one not the other, all torque and no bhp would mean youd get a kick in low revs but then nothing after, ie, my mates 306td felt really fast as it pulls you about even with 3 people in, yet when i had a play against it in the almera i hammered it all over n coz the almera is probably heavier its alot more of a smooth pick up

think we need someone to explain properly i dunno

[bullit]

lower down the rev range, bhp higher up as previously said

[Barry123]

f**k me there is a lot of people who dont know what they are talking about on here.

first of all...

The engine only produces ONE thing and that is torque it does NOT produce horsepower.

Horsepower is however calculated from the torque of the engine at a certain RPM.
simply put...
hp = torque * rpm.

The more torque an engine produces, the more force the engine can exert.
Anyone who didnt dick around at school will remember this beauty of an equation:
F = MA
Force = Mass * Acceleration

What this says is that a greater force applied will result in a greater acceleration.

So take two engines one petrol and one diesel (say both the same HP)... both are connected directly to the wheels.

If they were given full throttle then the diesel would accelerate quicker than the petrol... because the diesel outputs more torque. However the diesel will quicky reach max rpm (which is limited to around 5000-6000 because of the burning profile of th fuel), whereas as a petrol will accelerate to 6000-7000 rpm before hitting the limiter.

So from this we know that a diesel should in theory accelerate quicker... the drawback is the capped rpm. and this is where a petrol can win back.

The engine is linked to the wheels via a gearbox... the gearbox acts as a torque multiplier. Hence why you accerate quicker in 1st than 2nd, 2nd than 3rd etc.

Lets say both engines have slightly different gearboxs now so that in each gear at max rpm they are doing the same speed... As a result the petrol gearbox can be made to have shorter ratios compared with the diesel. And this results in higher torque multiplication. and as a result the petrol will accelerate just as quickly (or indeed quicker) than a derv.

pow :cool:

[lesz42]

guess that electric motors (engines?) will kick ass, for acceleration?

[2klthor]

nice ads loving it :)

[clipz]

toque defos, my dad has the new 1.9td laguna and it only does 40mph in first, but then shoots off in 2nd, vtr still beats it, but its starnage where cars all vary in where they have thier power, for instance, my mate had an old teg type r, i could keep up in first and then tht dreaded vtec kicks in and whooompsh its off a few meters.think, sumtimes 1.4's have more bhp than the saxo vtr, but the saxo beats it..why? the power to weight ratio, we r all crazy fookers wif 1.6's in a golf cart, thats the reality really.

[Tobs]

just get a good gear box, my mates mini mig racer has gear ratios so it can allcecrate very very fast but doesnt have good top end

torque is the turning force of whatever by drive

[Chris]

It's all about who's quickest off the lights...... hehe!

Chris :)

[Karl]

It's all about who's quickest off the lights...... hehe!

Chris :)

/agreed :)

[TheMadSaxo]

Yes, basically a car will push your head back into the seat at it's peak torque. So if you've got a standard VTS, rev it to 5200 (that where it makes peak torque) and nail it. That's when it'll pull hardest.

Ads, you're spot on mate, except for one thing:

BHP = Torque*RPM.....then you divide by 5252.

So for a standard VTS:

BHP = 107 lbft(it's max torque) * 5200(max torque rpm) / 5252. This means your stock VTS is making about 105BHP at 5200 revs.

So a long flat torque curve means you go faster.

How BHP translates to a cars performance, I've no idea except to say that power is the rate of doing 'work'.

So how is it that a car with more BHP will generally be quicker than a car with less BHP, regardless of what torque it's making?