Are Modern cars the death of modifying?

[ets2k9]

I hope you like my dramatic fleet street style title ;)

After seeing the thread about the Corsa VXR (Its irrelevant if you like or not) It set me wondering if modern cars are killing of the modifying scene.

Now "Modifying" is a poor wording as it cunjours up images of Maxpower and all that rubbish but what I'm getting at is I cant imagine there being a whole website similar to this one of Corsa VXR owners debating what induction kit they should fit.

The cars are rolling out of the factory with nearly 200bhp under the bonnet I cant see an airfilter making a great deal of difference, I also cant see the manufacturers of such products making any real effort to develop new products for such cars.

The complexity of most new cars now is that you can barely touch anything on them without going to the dealer.

I think Saxo's and other such cars will or could become sought after in a few years.

Those are bold statements I've made and should not be taken as God's words they are merely thoughts that occurred to me this morning.

Feel free to discuss

Steve

[Karl]

yep; most if not all new cars come with a silly plastic cover over the engine now.

Pretty much means "Dont touch me unless your a mechanic"

[Hopcraft]

havnt really thought about it, but from what you said, you do actually have a point.. but i dont think the saxo's will be sought after, but maybe some other cars around this era.

[Ruddy]

I think so too, you look at a civic type r or a renault clio 182 and the like and personally i wouldnt do anything to em. Car manufacturers have pretty much taken heed to produce cars that the public want by making them the way they see people 'modifying' others. Albeit that absolutly awful shaped exhaust on the corsa vxr!

[CampDavid]

interesting, certainly tallys with Mr GMC's theory though. Fitting standalone management to any modern car is a nightmare.

Personally, I think modding will continue, more towards the grip and handling field though, which is fine with me

[ets2k9]

I think some examples of the saxo will be sought after not in an Esort Cosworth kind of way more R5 GTT.

[TU-Tuning]

I agree. Everythings becoming electrically coded in like the head units in the new cars can only be removed by the comapny that made the car otherwise the electrics go dead etc, the quality inside the cabin is better then ever, and the safety is obviously so good now theyre thinking of adding another star to the ncap system. Thing about cars like saxos are that theyre basic, you get take the whole interior out in no time everything is held together with clips, and i like that. Means you can do jobs yourself.

When I get another car, although it wont be for a while, its not going to be one of the newer ones anyway, but something older like a Glanza V or a VTS. If you cant do much to these new cars to make them yours, it kind of takes away the point of owning a nice car to me as one of the main pros is that you can customise it to your design so its reletively unique to you.

[Karl]

I think some examples of the saxo will be sought after not in an Esort Cosworth kind of way more R5 GTT.

yes; r5 GTT and like Nova GSi's and GTE's

[scotts]

I think it will be very difficult to modify them but people will still want to customize the car to make it their own, so will put different alloys on etc.

[Ruddy]

I agree. Everythings becoming electrically coded in like the head units in the new cars can only be removed by the comapny that made the car otherwise the electrics go dead etc, the quality inside the cabin is better then ever, and the safety is obviously so good now theyre thinking of adding another star to the ncap system. Thing about cars like saxos are that theyre basic, you get take the whole interior out in no time everything is held together with clips, and i like that. Means you can do jobs yourself.

When I get another car, although it wont be for a while, its not going to be one of the newer ones anyway, but something older like a Glanza V or a VTS. If you cant do much to these new cars to make them yours, it kind of takes away the point of owning a nice car to me as one of the main pros is that you can customise it to your design so its reletively unique to you.

Good point mate

[ets2k9]

interesting, certainly tallys with Mr GMC's theory though. Fitting standalone management to any modern car is a nightmare.

Personally, I think modding will continue, more towards the grip and handling field though, which is fine with me


Suprisingly I had read Mr GMC's views on this subject but its not a blantent rip off more Oasis covering the beatles ;).

He did speak in depth on a far more educted level than me about the downsides of the modern engine and I thoroughly agree but the sight of the vxr set me wondering again.

Even if you take away the engine aspect of the debate the new breed of cars are rolling out with huge performance brakes and vastly improved suspension setups.

The styling has also gone up a level with Bucket type seats been a common feature along with decent alloy wheels etc.

I dont think it leaves much room to change anything.

The cost of the cars would also have an implication I dont imagine there would be many people wanting the 16k+ car in bits on there drive? Although this issue will be resolved when second hand values drop.

[VTS_16v_Boy]

You have rised some good questions there, I think as long as there Are cars like the top of the range hot hatchs there will always have to be a luke warm verson that people will want to be better or as good as the top of the range model.

Look back say 20-25yrs old skool tuners were probally saying the samething about EFi and fuel injection, gone where the days when you could change the setup of your car with a screwdriver, but as enigne technogy has moved on so has tuning methods look at Plug in tuning within five mins you can alter the cars ecu and up performance.

Tuning and moddin will never go away it will always continue to grow with the trends and tech.

[boz]

alot of cars are now harder to tinker with, most have to go to the dealers for bits n bobs.

there will always be aftermarket parts for improvement, as the manufactures are make these cars at a cost effective price, and compromise power for comfort and emissions etc. corsa will have better induction available for it, along with manifolds and systems, re-map etc. regal motorsport are normally at the fore front of vauxhall tuning. but it will all become more expensive for modern cars to be modified.

the same was said years ago when fuel injected cars started to replace carb cars, they were simple and easy to modify at home.

it wont be the end of moding your motor, will just be a different approach.

the govronment might even impose a ban on doing it like they have in belgium etc. they carnt touch their motors over there, hence the excessive kits and interiors etc.

[boz]

most people here would modify a civic type r or a new clio if you got one. its always calling lol when you have done it once, your hooked :)

[ets2k9]

I agree that with time the current barriers will be overcome and products will be to circulate although I cant see it being as wide spread as it is now.

I hadn't considered the governments take on modifying but I'm sure they have plans to ruin it all.

Maybe the popularity of the track car will increase more so?

[Danr]

I don't think this will be the case, if you look at fiesta st's or focus st's, fiesta's are being upgraded alot and the focus, well, one was taken to 300bhp stragiht away lol.

[boz]

with out a doubt,the track scene has exploded over than last year or so. most modifying companies will tell you, more peeps are stripping out their cars, and going for better suspension setups and braking setups.

i think that companies may charge more for performance parts for modern cars, due to research and development for the new fangle engine setups etc to bypass dealers only bits, codes etc.

was done with the new fuel injection systems when they first came out years ago. will just take time for it to happen to new modern cars.

[Karl]

Tuning and moddin will never go away it will always continue to grow with the trends and tech.

til the government ban it on the roads?

[boz]

any turbo car can be upgraded to silly power. dosnt matter how modern it is,but it will cost alot more to get a focus st to 300bhp than it will to get an older cossie to that spec. due to research and development into the new style engine :)

graham goode racing had bits out before the focus st was first sold ;) they had developed parts along side ford racing etc

[ets2k9]

graham goode racing had bits out before the focus st was first sold

But would the price of these things push most people out of the game?

[Karl]

Heres a question;

Ripspeed, how long will it last?

or will ppl never realise it sucks ass?

[boz]

it will mean that well off peeps can get their cars uprated. and the likes of us will have to wait until they have dropped the prices or until we save a shit load. by the time more parts become available there will be a newer or better model out lol thats normally the case :)

[ets2k9]

The brand or the shop?

[boz]

lmbo, i only buy cleaning products etc from there, not really part of the stick tat on your car brigade. think it will be around for a while, always has peeps in it spending money when i go. there are at least 5 within 10 miles of me so they must be making a fair bit of cash lol

[Yates]

dont audis come with a special key that only there trained mechanics can get in the bonnet? only thing the owner can do is change water oil and washer fluid? sure i heard that somewhere

i know what your saying, but modifiying is changing and will carry on changing, but i think that the makers make there cars and people will always find a way of making them faster, and if a car costs you 25k then im sure you will have more money to mod it if wanted

[Dan]

I see your point mate, but dont feel modifying will stop, as Matt said people will always find a way doing so. I think now a lot more people are being put off by bodykits and going for subtle/euro styling and track slags, which personally I think is really good, not saying I dont like all kitted cars though.

I agree that maybe a few years down the line the saxo, 106 gti etc will become the new 205 gti.

I also understand what someone mentioned that a lot of the newer cars come with buckets, alloys etc, but at the end of the day there still classed as 'standard' parts, people cant leave there cars alone so I dont think it will stop. :p

[Yates]

i intend to keep my saxo for as long as i can and always keep it as my toy, over the year it should be a beast, i can imagine me buying a new car and then just carrying on with saxo, i know its nothing to do with what your on about but its my thoughts on my saxo, exhaust manifold cams buckets strip it out n lighter wheels

[stevenet15]

on some of the new mercs i work on you have to have a diagnostic laptop aka start macheine just to be able to change a set of pads as if you dont reset the electrics and tell it that u have put new pads in it brings up warnings lights and the electrics go bazzare

[ets2k9]

Matt - I think there's going to be alot of Saxo's going down that route, I'd quite like to keep my Saxo as a track car but its not really practical at the moment....so It;ll probably end up being sold off in bits.

[KamRacing]

Engines are still fundamentaly the same. What will probably happen is that you'll plug in an aftermarket ECU to run the engine and It'll leave the rest of the o/e ECU to run your aircon and whatever. Or if the o/e ones get advanced enough perhaps they'll even run TBs..

That aside Cars / engines getting more advanced is a good thing as it means I have a steady stream of engines etc I can shoehorn into older lighter chassis.

Back when the Peugeot 309 was built all it needed was a lightweight 250bhp 2 litre engine and RWD and it'd be perfect.. :) I've just had to wait 20 years for the donor car to be built. Thank you Honda

[Yates]

kam pics of that!

[AM4R]

I agree with you, but you will never be able to stop people making cars 'their own' People will always try to personalise a car or change something about it to make it different.

As mentioned before more and more cars are coming out that look really nice standard eg. Type R, but then again there are really nice modifed type R's at the same time.

Manufacturers are trying to make their cars more 'street worthy' but they will never make it totally modified as people who dont like modified cars would never buy them.

I think they are trying to balance it out thesedays.

Anyone agree?

[Chris]

You will be able to get a large gain in BHP from the VXR, just by getting a remap, then you can still replace the manifold and other engine parts for better ones from the likes of Courtenay, Regal and 888..... so in one word.... NO, modern cars aren't making the end of modding. With regards to the exterior, the cars are becoming more desirable looks wise, so people are thinking "There's no point in changing the exterior as it looks fantastic already... changing it would just spoil it".

Chris :)

Chris :)

[SaxOmniaC]

I hope you like my dramatic fleet street style title ;)

After seeing the thread about the Corsa VXR (Its irrelevant if you like or not) It set me wondering if modern cars are killing of the modifying scene.

Now "Modifying" is a poor wording as it cunjours up images of Maxpower and all that rubbish but what I'm getting at is I cant imagine there being a whole website similar to this one of Corsa VXR owners debating what induction kit they should fit.

The cars are rolling out of the factory with nearly 200bhp under the bonnet I cant see an airfilter making a great deal of difference, I also cant see the manufacturers of such products making any real effort to develop new products for such cars.

The complexity of most new cars now is that you can barely touch anything on them without going to the dealer.

I think Saxo's and other such cars will or could become sought after in a few years.

Those are bold statements I've made and should not be taken as God's words they are merely thoughts that occurred to me this morning.

Feel free to discuss

Steve

Quality statement, lets hope that all saxo's become sought after in the future cos we'd all be in luck :y:

[boz]

im defo keeping the saxos, will be looking at getting a bigger car when the missus passes her test. but i carnt see me getting rid f them. one will be a track slag the other my run about lol

[Connor_scotland]

yep new cars are killing modifying

i love the new astra vxr(new ish) there is nothing i would change only thing really would be wheels.

but it all depends the subtle modifying will always be there like smoothing ect ect

[Dan]

im defo keeping the saxos, will be looking at getting a bigger car when the missus passes her test. but i carnt see me getting rid f them. one will be a track slag the other my run about lol

When I get my license back you can loan a saxo lol :p

[sim69er]

with modifying newer cars i think that people go to the dealers now as they offer all sorts of upgrades, i think newer cars will be harder to mod but as the saying goes where theres a will theres a way

[ets2k9]

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yep new cars are killing modifying

i love the new astra vxr(new ish) there is nothing i would change only thing really would be wheels.

but it all depends the subtle modifying will always be there like smoothing ect ect

I'm really taken with the astra vxr I wouldn't do a thing to it.

Nothing worth doing IMO

[Barry123]

dont audis come with a special key that only there trained mechanics can get in the bonnet? only thing the owner can do is change water oil and washer fluid? sure i heard that somewhere


That was the Audi A2 mate.


The manufacturers are under MASSIVE pressure from each other and the government to build cars that are efficient, safe, high quality etc. This will probably work both ways for the modifier. On one hand the engine is so refined and has so much electric hardware controlling it that a lot of potential will be sourced from Superchipping (not ebay style), Other higher level work such as camming, will become more expensive and tedious to do as the complexity of the engine and components means your standard torx screw and spanner wont be enough to remove bolts etc, electronics will need resetting (to prevent the system spazing out), remaps as usual etc.

On the otherhand because of the drive for low emissions and fuel economy, the modifier could in theory adjust fuelling with largish gains as the engine will be 'detuned' from the factory to ensure good reliability and emissions.

Eitherway it will get far to complicated for the 'home' mechanic and this is probably reflected in the lack of new haynes manuals being released these days. Bodywork will continue to be bastardised. Even alloys wheels will become increasing difficult (pressure sensor in wheels for example)

ad :)

[Barry123]

Also ste

You've got a point about about the saxo's having a rebirth or whatever.

To the DIY mechanic the modern cars will offer very little and so a lot of DIY euthusiasts will inevitably choose a car from the saxo era.

it'll be very interesting

[KamRacing]

kam pics of that!

He's a couple of the more recent pics.

Welded in the full rear subframe from the S2000 into the rear of the 309 with a little extra bracing :D
Engine is also being offered up into position just to see how much more of the buckhead will be cut away before fabricating the mounts for the front subframe and engine.

http://www.kam-racing.com/images/project%20cars/309%20rallycross/engine_lowered.jpg

http://www.kam-racing.com/images/project%20cars/309%20rallycross/rear_spaceframe.jpg

So at the very least new cars are good for parts. Ask any Mk1 golf owner .. the new VAG engines go some in those.

I can also think of plenty of improvements I could make to any of the newer cars.. even the sporty ones aren't perfect in my eyes.

[lambinator]

saxo the next kit car