turbo or supercharger for vts

[Dave_VTS]

i will be buying a saxo vts in a few weeks and i want to get the lowest possable 0-60 time what would be the best way and what is the lowest so far plz help as i am stuck with what to go for oh and which will be less damageing in the long run

[Deano1983]

as far as i know superchargers are more reliable.

the main benifit with a supercharger is there is no lag, with turbo u get lag which maybe the first 2000 revs or sum then it kicks in.

am gonna get a turbo for mine due to wanting a dump valve haha

Deano smileys/smiley4.gif

[Northern_Will]

PTSCH!

genius! smileys/smiley4.gif

[Krissy_Bufton]

SUPERCHARGE!

hardly seen ANY Supercharged VTS' seen a few turbo'd tho.

superchargers give ya that nice loud grumble, followed by the lovely whistle.

turbos give ya high pitched spooling, and the loud PTTSCH

[Krissy_Bufton]

but if ur more into the performance lol

superchargers are pretty good, reliable, and as will mentioned dont lag. they r well good as a G60 in a VW Corrado, not sure how they perform in a VTS tho.

Turbos on other hand, have that low rev lag, but nice power at high revs. and will probably go on better and easier on the VTS

(All estimates, by the not-so-knowledgable Krissy)

[Northern_Will]

Deano with the lag comment Krissy, not me! He said what we were all thinknig tho smileys/smiley4.gif

[Deano1983]

yes twas me thank u very much will

Deano smileys/smiley4.gif

[Northern_Will]

Dont thank me young man.....


Thank the inventor of the S/C!!

[Deano1983]

s/c??

Deano smileys/smiley4.gif

[Scott]

super charger deanosmileys/smiley17.gif

This question is a real can of wormssmileys/smiley17.gif

Both conversions have proved to be realiable probably just as much as they prove to be unreliablesmileys/smiley17.gif

If you have the cash you can expect low 5's to 60 but i expect this to be broken by some of the big power cars this year once all running.

[Frevo]

You can put a dump valve on a supercharged car. Why not? You won't have any benefit from it though, but tbh the benefit of a dump valve on a turbo is questionable aswell. For example, Simo (probably never heard of him smileys/smiley2.gif ) removed his dump valve.

Supercharger conversions are easier as you can just buy an of the shelf conversion from GMC. No one self tried and tested turbo conversions (anymore).

The cheapest way to get a good 0-60 is to strip it actually as Paul Evans has demonstrated by getting a 6.38 0-60 time with a virtually standard vts, just airfilter, exhaust and stripped.

For more 0-60 times, go to www.NotoriousVTR.co.uk/ssctimes.htm

[Deano1983]

u cant have a dump valve on a super charger

Deano smileys/smiley4.gif

[Scott]

yes you can... but its said to loose boost but pugmall runs one and doesnt report any lower boost or anything and to be honest i dont really see why it wont work on "kind" of the same principal as on a turbo.

i.e. when butterfly closes excess pressure is vented/

[Deano1983]

but surely it wudnt be to the same extent??

Deano smileys/smiley4.gif

[Scott]

extent of what?

[Deano1983]

as in the pressure, therefore wont be as loud??

Deano smileys/smiley4.gif

[Scott]

turbo's and superchargers can run the same boost its how they deliver them that is different

[Deano1983]

ah but how do u put a dump valve on a supercharger cus a turbo has got one but just not one that makes a noise aint it?

Deano smileys/smiley4.gif

[Scott]

the dump valve itself is not normally attached the actual turbo but attached to the pipe between the turbo and teh throttle body. Sometimes certain cars have a dump valve fitted as standard thats usually shite and made of plastic and doesnt work as well as an aftermarket one and doesnt make a noise.
A dump valve would be fitted to a supercharged car in the same way i.e. in the pipe from the charger to the throttle body

[Deano1983]

but ave just bin on gmc and they say the down side to a supercharger is there aint a dump valve to make a nice sound

Deano

[Scott]

yes but you can add one, they say that it will loose boost and in theory it may but Pugmall has on with his supercharger and reports no reduction in boost, so its a bit of swings and roudabouts i supposesmileys/smiley17.gif

[Deano1983]

ah i see, fair enough mate, so in theory after all this a supercharger is in fact better?? accordin to gmc anyway

Deano smileys/smiley4.gif

[Krissy_Bufton]

dump valve on supercharger is different to a turbo.

on a superchartger, the noise will be 3 simultaneous whooshes. obviously quieter than a turbo, but sounds a heck of a lot better! coz it grumbles b4 that.

sum superchargers also Whistle

[Scott]

kris why on earth would it give 3 whooshes?

there is also no reason why it would be quieter than a turbos "dump" if its running the same pressure and using the same dump valve why would it be quieter?

[Krissy_Bufton]

thats just wot the 1s i have h eard Scott!!!! smileys/smiley17.gif that was a very patronising tone then smileys/smiley17.gif hehe

anyways, the 1s ive heard, its hard to explain in words! lol u would have to hear my voice to know wot i mean, its like 3 whooshes! as in its a spooling noise that occurs like 3-4 times, and gets quieter after each 1. VERY hard to explain!

ive only ever heard that and a whistle smileys/smiley17.gif sooooo smileys/smiley17.gif smileys/smiley17.gif smileys/smiley17.gif

[Krissy_Bufton]

in words, wittiitiitiitiish thats the only way i can explain it!!!

[Northern_Will]

Buy punto Gt turbo, fit a dump valve, end of story"

[Deano1983]

eeeeeerrrrrrrrrrr did u say punto shame on u, they or horrid haha

Deano smileys/smiley4.gif

[Scott]

lol ok kris sorry didnt mean to sound patronising, sounds like he would have been feathering the throttle to do that or is running multiple dump valves or something.

[Northern_Will]

Faster than a vtr in a straight line! dare say a vts depending on condition! shite round B roads mind, i used to have a 1999 60s! That bad boy saw plenty of action if yer know what i mean smileys/smiley2.gif

[Deano1983]

haha i think i know yes mate, not sayin they aint fast just hate puntos they or mingin

Deano smileys/smiley4.gif

[Northern_Will]

yeah i'm well chuffed wit me VTR, it was my first car tho, it was belter, had sme class fish tail action in the snow! 115 wheel spinning on the spot on ice! legend!

[Deano1983]

lol, sweet, the front tyres on mine let me wheel spin in the wet up to in 4th gear haha, they r shit!! they hve loadsa grip round corners in the wet but the bak down so i have to watch the back end its class slidin round them bends haha

Deano smileys/smiley4.gif

[Northern_Will]

lol - rules, wsh i'd been on the ice in me VTR, dare say the limiter in 5th would of been an option!

[Deano1983]

classic

Deano smileys/smiley4.gif

[Northern_Will]

whats your land speed record deano? i've done 135 in my bab boy!!

[Deano1983]

the 130 racing a 106 quicksilver the 106 kept up til 120 then i left her haha
they were fit aswell, off the mark i did em al over aswell obviously

Deano smileys/smiley4.gif

[Northern_Will]

i did em al over aswell


hehe - dirty mad head!


They quick then? know the older 1.4 pug 106's were 100bhp but didnt know the quickies were fast as vtr's?

[Deano1983]

no they aint mate, they were doin 120 and i was behind em but they cudnt gi it anymore so i did em lol, off the lights they didnt stand a chance

Deano smileys/smiley4.gif

[Northern_Will]

Not much does gainst vtr, fast as feck offthe mark, long as u get your revs good!

[Simo]

The classic debate.. smileys/smiley17.gif

I tend to stay out of this debate, although I do have a lot to say smileys/smiley17.gif

One fact however, if you were a passenger in my car, after a few minutes drive I guarantee 95% of people would be worried by the acceleration/speed, and 100% of people would say "what lag?"

smileys/smiley17.gif

[Dave_VTS]

simo i want you car mate are you selling it buy any chance if not could you give me some idears on what to get for a vts and what it would cost for the turbo or supercharger plus all the stuff i would need to go with it like intercooler and radiator oil cooler i dont know what to do i will be buying the car in a few weeks i am selling my mercedes c230 kompressor i got it handed down from my dad and i will have a good amount of money to spend on it .

[Scott]

www.gmcmotorsport.co.uk for supercharger prices but for turbo conversion prices your going to struggle a bit

[barrett]

The classic debate.. smileys/smiley17.gif

I tend to stay out of this debate, although I do have a lot to say smileys/smiley17.gif

One fact however, if you were a passenger in my car, after a few minutes drive I guarantee 95% of people would be worried by the acceleration/speed, and 100% of people would say "what lag?"

smileys/smiley17.gif

Soudns like a challenege smileys/smiley4.gif smileys/smiley14.gif

[Deano1983]

cituning do turbo for 2000ish for the entry level

Deano smileys/smiley4.gif

[Scott]

yep but it was eye'd it up at the FCS and people didnt like the look of the way it was setup for reading boost, but its still early days yet

[Deano1983]

wot do u mean scott?

Deano smileys/smiley4.gif

[Scott]

from another thread its setup to sense boost using a pressure switch and its just not the best way to do it thats all

[Dave_VTS]

scott what would you reckomend for my saxo vts ????

[Scott]

if you can get a company who would undertake the whole turbo conversion, you could try DP motorsport they may still do one for you if you come up with the cash, then you can compare quotes for a supercharger or turbo and you can compare quotes then see what you think

[Krissy_Bufton]

this may sound dumb... but do u need to have a 16v car to have a turbo conversion??

[Scott]

nope

[Krissy_Bufton]

so u could do a turbo conversion on say a 1.4 8v? lol

[Deano1983]

yer i can get one for my vtr hehe

Deano smileys/smiley4.gif

[Krissy_Bufton]

tee hee smileys/smiley17.gif i wanna s00pad00pacharge my pug lmao

[Scott]

yep doesnt matter how small the engine is it can be charged

[barrett]

wooooooooow theres hope for my 1.1 still smileys/smiley4.gif

[Krissy_Bufton]

sweet as a nut! yet i expect it would be SOOOO EXPENSIVE to get a supercharger conversion?????

[Deano1983]

no 1500 at gmc

Deano smileys/smiley4.gif

[Krissy_Bufton]

for a pug? hehehe

[Frevo]

Hahaha different sound of a dump valve!

A dump valve just vents pressure to the atmosphere when you lift. The difference between the s/c and the turbo is that a supercharger get driven by a belt and the turbo by exhaust gasses, but they both do the same thing: create boost pressure in the inlet tact. To say it in a simple way: That means there is pressure in the pipe to the inlet manifold. That's the place where the dump valve is fitted. When you lift the gas, the dump valve opens and vents the pressure (the psssssshhhhh sounds you hear). Having a s/c or a turbo doesn't matter, you just have to have boost pressure and that's the purpose of both of them.

What GMC means about loosing boost is when you have a dump valve fitted and you lift, the boost pressure is vented, removing the pressure you have in your inlet tact. If you then give it full throttle again, the pressure has to build up again, so you loose a little bit of boost. I doubt you'll notice though.
You don't actually lose boost as at full throttle the dump valve is closed anyway..