Reccomend me a Gearbox!

[Colin]

Ive just realised I know puff all about gearboxes and after knackering my 3rd one and my 4th clutch, I would like to spend abit of dosh on making a decent box.

So please can someone point me in the right direction for:

Clutch
Flywheel
Gearbox (VTS Ratios)
Differential

All this will be getting abused and will be on a cammed vts, so I need it to be able to take punishment.

Thanks in advance.

Colin.

[Mark51]

pm GOD106GTI

[shadowed_fury]

XSi + ATB. ;)

[Ryan]

get your vts box reconditioned with an XSI final drive and an ATB diff.

you can lighten and balance your flywheel if you want but alot dont, qep are who you want here.

standard valeo clutches are fine imo for 95% if NA applications

[Ryan]

also learn to drive with mechanical sypathy, it will help with the longevity of the boxes.

[Colin]

I will admit my style of driving kills gearboxes!

Is the XSi final drive shorter?

And yes I was thinking of a L and B flywheel. Can you buy them off the shelf from QEP?

ATBs are quite expensive arent they?

[williamsvts]

£600ish doelivered.

[mardon]

The L/B fly wheels are £120 from QEP. They charge you an extra £40 which you get back when you return your old fly wheel so they can L/B a new one.

I have one, there great. QEP's service is outstanding too. They have them in stock at the moment too. I help them source a few spares you see.

Again I think the shorter ratio of the 1.4 Xsi box final drive will be spot on for you.

Maybe speak to CARWORX as you can get the box shot peened helping it stand up to more abuse.

The whole refurb including everything (clutch, fly wheel, ATB, XSi final drive and refurb) will probably cost you a fair bit (£1300 plus) but will transform your car!

I have a black diamond clutch which I really rate. Really good for fast launches as it handles 20% more torque but still remains good for day to day driving.

Hope this helps.

[Ryan]

interesting you rate black dimond, as ive heard nothing but problems from previous people who used them.

valeos are perfectly fine imo

[mardon]

I'd never heard the problems as I used to use another forum. It really is great though. Took a little getting used to but I like it alot.

What things have been said?

[Ryan]

I'd never heard the problems as I used to use another forum. It really is great though. Took a little getting used to but I like it alot.

What things have been said?

they dont last long, slip easily, have a nasty bite point etc..

have heard lots and lots of negative reviews.

[mardon]

The bite is ether "on of off" until you get used to it. It doesn't slip but its still pretty new..

I'll report back after a few 1000 miles.

[Mystic]

Someone mind giving me a quick run through of the XSI final drive.

I assume its a model of 106? How does it compare to VTS/GTi etc in terms of engine size / gear ratios? (Pug noob here, even though i practically drive one ;))

[Ryan]

Someone mind giving me a quick run through of the XSI final drive.

I assume its a model of 106? How does it compare to VTS/GTi etc in terms of engine size / gear ratios? (Pug noob here, even though i practically drive one ;))

106xsi 1.4 is the one i talk about.

basically all sports gearsets are the same, (vts, gti, xsi, rallye)
the final drives are what make them a different box, the final drives also known as the CWP (crown wheel and pinionshaft)

the xsi final drive will give better in gear performance due to the number of teeth on it

[Mystic]

Ah right, so by better performance i assume thats a lower top speed aswell?

You have any comparison figures (that i might understand :P) between the vts etc final drive & the xsi one? top speed of either on a standard vts limiter?

Or am i well off?

[Ryan]

Ah right, so by better performance i assume thats a lower top speed aswell?

You have any comparison figures (that i might understand :P) between the vts etc final drive & the xsi one? top speed of either on a standard vts limiter?

Or am i well off?

top speed will be redced yes.

go on ssc its in the FAQ bit, i dont have time today to bring it across for everyone

[Mystic]

Cheers mate, i'll have a look on SSC for it :y:

[-Jason-]

Not been mentioned but i have an axgt gearbox and its the same ratios as the rallye box so very good acceleration.

[AlexR]

most ax gt boxes won't fit and have smaller bearings. all of the mk1 ones that is. the mk2 ones are the same ratios as vts box pretty much/totally.

what are you breaking on the boxes? can't tell you what you need to do to stop them breaking unless you know what is actually breaking. derr.

[westiejack]

Go for a rallye box!

[Ryan]

Go for a rallye box!

try finding one lol!

and imo the final drive of one makes fuel economy alot worse due to such high revving at motorway speeds and the low top speed.

[KamRacing]

and if you are feeling flush get a nice Be3 conversion kit for £ 400.00 and put a proper gearbox on :P
You could spend £2k on a competition gearset for the ma gearbox for a 5 speed one (the 6 speed costs £9k!)

[VTS_16v_Boy]

So ok if wer talking about shorting the final drive can somebody give me a comparison:

My VTS does 80mph at 4,000rpm

how would that change with a short final drive are you saying it would inrease to say 80mph at 5,000rmp? but getting there alot quicker

I rarely take the car over the magical ton only when rep mobiles race up behind me and flash me so a just put my foot down, so what kinda top speed are we talking about.

Say a standard S tops out a 120mph-130mph (in the real world) by switching to the shorter final drive how much is that gons drop by or to?

[AlexR]

The top speed could potentially increase using a shorter box. it depends where maximum power is made.

Maximum power on a standard engine is 6.6k or something. if it requires 120bhp to keep the car moving at a steady 130mph then you need to have the car making 120bhp when it is doing that speed ;) if the gearbox is too short you will run out of revs before then, if it is too long the revs will be too low and it will me making 110bhp when it should be doing 130 mph so it won't actually get there in the first place.

On a standard vts box 6k=120, 7k = 140. therefore 6.6k = 133mph

bang on pretty much ;)

with my S2 rallye box i am getting 125mph at maximum power, however the power doesn't really tail off at all, and with the breathing mods will usually peak at about 7k anyway. at soft limiter 7250 i get 137mph. All good :D

[Mystic]

and imo the final drive of one makes fuel economy alot worse due to such high revving at motorway speeds and the low top speed.

Thats what i was thinking, id rather the cheaper motorway miles since i'm gonna be on motorways longer than im gonna be racing in 5th gear.

Think i'll just stick to my Sbox

[mardon]

The XSI box is still a good compromise.

[Colin]

This has turned out to be a good thread. Thanks to all those who has contributed!

I wouldnt mind a straight cut box haha.

Excellent advise throughout. Im going to have to recon my VTS box before I do much else lol.

Thanks,

Col.

[KamRacing]

if you are going to go for straight cut or the adaptor bellhousing for a be3 gearbox (which would be easily strong enough and cheap to replace) then its probably worth saving the money you would pay on reconing your current box.

[MiniGibbo]

from what ive seen the s2 ralli is the box to get aint it ?

[Ryan]

from what ive seen the s2 ralli is the box to get aint it ?

s1 rallye is the more wanted box. then 1.4xsi.

[CampDavid]

Ryan is right, though I don't agree that it's a good choice.

Crossies 16valve Rallye was topping out in fifth everywhere on the ring and doing 120mph to catch the ferry is fine in a VTS, less good in the red zone with the Rallye box.

I find the VTS box is ideal. 3rd and 4th on track mainly. Having to change into 5th is a pain, though I do uise fifth a lot on the ring to keep the revs down a bit and give the engine some love.

Agree with Kamracing, a BE3 box would be nice, I can't understand why they didn't give the Saxo the BE as standard, the MA box dates back to the Visa and frankly isn't up to 100lbft of torque

[KamRacing]

i agree. they are made of chocolate compared to the be boxes, and the be choice is massive :D £650 would get you the adaptor bellhousing and a reconditioned gearbox. i'm guessing you use a standard tu clutch.

If anyone is interested in the kit I will find out from the manufacturer what needs doing for the conversion.

[Ryan]

Ryan is right, though I don't agree that it's a good choice.

Crossies 16valve Rallye was topping out in fifth everywhere on the ring and doing 120mph to catch the ferry is fine in a VTS, less good in the red zone with the Rallye box.



it depends on what you want though, most people now are wanting a box for a car which they just intend on doing the odd few track days and sprinting, which is why the s1 box is now so highly saught after.

personally if i was doing long miles id not use one id go for the xsi and still have some nice in gear stuff.

alexs car is totally different now the s2 box is on.

MA boxes personally are only weak if people cant drive properly, driven correctly with mechanicial sympathy you still shouldnt be able to kill the box easy

[CampDavid]

MA boxes personally are only weak if people cant drive properly, driven correctly with mechanicial sympathy you still shouldnt be able to kill the box easy

I'd disagree with that, mines fucked and I never nail it that hard. They just aren't up to the job.

[Ryan]

I'd disagree with that, mines fucked and I never nail it that hard. They just aren't up to the job.

yours was just synchros though wasnt it dave?

only a few track days, not exactly taking it easy though is it ;)

[MaRiO89]

Mines been ok, 110k and a track day. no probs..

[CampDavid]

yours was just synchros though wasnt it dave?

only a few track days, not exactly taking it easy though is it ;)

Diff bearings.

I'll let you know when it's out of the car and in bits

[Ryan]

Diff bearings.

I'll let you know when it's out of the car and in bits

ah nice then! not exactly a small job then.

[CampDavid]

I've got another box to go in, just swapping them over

[Ryan]

I've got another box to go in, just swapping them over

rebuild the old one with an ATB??

[CampDavid]

I'll probably just flog the car to be honest, fancy RWD

[AlexR]

assooooooot

[Ryan]

fair enough.

e30 325i then?

[CampDavid]

MX5 I was thinking!

[Ryan]

MX5 I was thinking!

:panic: :panic: :panic: :panic: :panic: :homme:

[KamRacing]

they are a fantastic drivers car with brilliant handling. Only issue is they are underpowered but that can be solved with a bolt of supercharger kit :d

[Ryan]

they are a fantastic drivers car with brilliant handling. Only issue is they are underpowered but that can be solved with a bolt of supercharger kit :d

i know they have a great reputation for handling add that to the fact they should be absolutely bulletproof, just a shame mazda fitted it wich such a low power lump. i was just expecting him to say something a bit less 'midlife hairdresser crisis' which the mx5 tends to scream out.

[CampDavid]

1.8is has 140bhp, which is enough to be getting on with.

Should be a nice daily driver IMO

All depends on me selling the Saxo first

[Ryan]

1.8is has 140bhp, which is enough to be getting on with.

Should be a nice daily driver IMO

All depends on me selling the Saxo first

at least its gonna be a different in the carpark at work to the cliosports you said everyone has!

have you read sandys 1.4hillclimb thread on the rallye reg! very interesting read!