I agree aswell seems very low? I want at least 200! what ecu are you running madison ill have a gander at your thread! Want this done soon but dont want to rush so would rather do the research before hand! Thanks for the comments guys

i don't have a progress thread mate

i've got a dta s40pro ecu, had it fitted and mapped by sandy brown. tbh, i owe the reliability and good power output to him. A decent ecu and a decent mapper is essential imo.

Been giving this a good think over the last few days as per the direction of my car. I know I'm going to go 16v at some point and kept thinking do I....

Cams and ITB's (160hp sound about right?)

or spend the extra money and go low boost (unsure on a hp figure but at least theres plenty of scope for tuning depending on your budget)

Shall be keeping an eye on most of the Boost'd Progress Threads (Thank Heavens for email subscriptions!) and making my mind up, got plenty of time anyway.

:y:

IMO the single most important thing in a build like this is a good map.

To OP, i have also done a budget turbo build i dont have time to right loads of stuff in here about it but feel free to have a look through my progress thread. A DTA, loom and map from GR will probably set you back about 1k... but it will be the best 1k you will spend.

Comments like these keep me assured im making the correct decision. :y:

what decision is that james?

Ahhh all ive heard is good things about this guy might have a word with him and sort something out! How much did it set you back matee

The dp engineering kit has been mentioned above but what other choices have you got when it comes to the turbo. Again looking at the 200 - 220bhp atw figure.

Will be using the cituning manifold and downpipe just because it's cheaper.

Welcome to the forums :)

The DP kit is made up of standard garrett turbos, on their manifolds with their downpipe and fittings.

Your question is a little wooly unfortunately! If you mean what are your choices with turbos, the answer is "lots"! From IHI to garrett, kkk etc. However, if you want to use a dp manifold then your better sticking with garrett in my opinion (DP will fit a TD or K flange at extra cost). Of course, there's nothing stopping you mixing and matching anything you want.

For 200atw, you're looking at 220atf. Thats a really nice figure to have as it's really fun and really drivable! AND you get to play with the smaller turbos.

Don't be put off by running a smaller turbo - if you're not chasing power figures, the smaller the turbo the better because it allows really fast spool and therefore drivability across the whole rev range. A GT25 would be an ideal turbo for you and around town and on short point to points, you'd be untouchable because of how quick the car would come on boost :)

Actually on 106owners (Dan!) just only view this forum :D Seem to have more people with knowledge around boost on hear though which is good!

What i mean by my post is basically going to by the cituning manifold and downpipe which is £455 i believe but i dont fancy spending £600 on a turbo for what i want.

I'll be just using this car on the road so need a quick spooling turbo. Could you suggest a turbo from a production car that would be ideal? This would obviously be cheaper to buy..

I could buy the dp engineering kit but would prefer to save my pennies as i dont have any intentions of going for more power at a later date. It just would not be needed.

Thanks for your reply ross.

if you could get a different flange welded on the manifold for 220hp a ko3s turbo off audi tt would be ideal. or a td04, or gt22 etc etc.. shit loads of options.. the garret range is good but again you pay more for it, which is expected.

Grab a TD04 flange from ebay and have that welded to the cituning manifold if they dont offer the td flange as standard. TD04's are cheap as chips and a good turbo for your needs - especially the smaller end of the range, like the 13G. Avoid the 09B though, as thats really designed for petrol strimmers and ride on lawn mowers ;)

There are actually TD04s ross that have the weired 3 bolt exhaust flange the cituning downpipe uses the manifold is the standard 4 bolt t2* style one

Ive got a gt2871rs. feels sluggish to spool up sometimes but im putting that own to not being used to what gear to be in yet!

Cant wait until its fully mapped and i can ee how it performs properly! Where should i be expecting it to spool up? thing its around 4.5k atm!

that sounds about right for that turbo mate. it certainly wouldnt be my first (2nd,3rd,4th) choice in turbo but it certainly gives good power. if i were you id sell the gt2871r and buy a gt28rs

Ah I didn't know that about the cituning stuff - never looked at it. Useful to know for others though for sure :)

2871 wouldn't be a good choice for this engine - it's fairly mismatched to the engine. See if you can find someone with a 2860 who wants to swap :) The 71 will make more top end power, but at the price of spool, as you're discovering. :( Don't expect that to improve.

I think I am going to look into the VNTs for my next build something that will spool from 1500 and gold out to 6250 will be fine just case of finding a good one or something similar from the usual suspects that will do similar

Think I'll just use a TD04, seem to be available pretty cheaply...

not an ideal turbo for a saxo however it is an ideal turbo for my s14a so if you want to sell it, pm me!

im running a t25 from a 200sx, starts spooling about 1500 and reaches full boost around 2750-2950, ideal, and thats with a pretty decent sized i/c and 2.25" boost piping

on the pred i dotn know how long andy is away with it, pretty sure he said only recently it wont be much longer, but i needed one quick and found on eat a good price, so i bought it, easy enough to get the loom re plugged at the chassis side :y:

i've just got my hands on a t25 hybrid off a frst for my vtr its going to be hard to fit but hay its going to be worth it :)

Will this T25 200sx turbo fit onto the cituning manifold blackie?
sounds promising if so.

This thread has been needed for a long time!

So if im looking for 300atw and a good spool what turbo's should i be looking at? I havnt had enough seat time or even full boost to get a feel of whats best.

Blackie does the t25 boost all the way to the limiter or does it 'tail off'?

alot of cituning mani's run t25 flange so dont see why not, but id check to make sure, as for boosting it depends what your limiter is set to. Mine's still pulling hard at 7k, will check tongight and report back, on phone atm

With what other mods? You wont see 300atw on a 2860 without extensive headwork as a minimum, or a different inlet, or cams, or a combination etc, and even then you'll be on the limit of the turbo flow rate anyway).

Everyone seems to be fixed on this "magic" 300 figure. Remember it's all about the MAP (drivability), not about the peak figure it makes.

tbh I think for a road car 200-250BHP atw would be able to bone most things

i just love your way with words :)

Ive only got 300 in mind as that figure gets pinged about alot. Unfortunaty i dont have the time (or knowledge) to compare turbo's. Like i say i havnt been in any other pug turbo's so have no idea of how my turbo compares to others in the real world. Is the 2871rs bad enough that i need to swap it?

I think i'll get it mapped and set up. Then see how it feels.

All this means is that you deffo need to take me out in yours to compare :p

awsome words of wisdom there gav, very true tho.

im sure colin made around 300atw with a gt28rs.. that was on standard inlet/cams/no headwork. ok not for long i admit, but it did make the power.


hold on ross, why are you saying all this "Everyone seems to be fixed on this "magic" 300 figure. Remember it's all about the MAP (drivability), not about the peak figure it makes" when your doing what your doing with your car... excuse me if im wrong but the impression i get is that you were building a trackday car not a competition car or drag car??? well thats what the thread title says anyway.

there are more than just a couple of people who want to reach their own goals.. me included.


agree with the majority though, any saxo/106 with 200hp+ is a genuinly quick car.

Mine was 270atw last year (300atf with 10% losses unlike 20% loss you also see thrown about a lot!). Would bone ANYTHING from 30-130 mph. More than enough on the road. Really. Including 400+ bhp skylines, 400bhp evos etc.

The 2871 will maybe get you close to 300 if you've got your heart set on it. But really - get it setup well and you'll have so much fun you won't care. And honestly - if you drive a 280 bhp saxo then a 300 bhp saxo, you won't notice the difference. Theyll both try and kill you ;)

Danny. My objectives have changed somewhat. Last years car was a road car. This year I'm after more power for other reasons. Doesn't have to be as drivable.

As for Colin making 300atw on stock everything. I think you know my feelings on that already...

Just a question, mainly aimed at ross...

What power will the ma box take (in your opinion) before it begins to strip gears?
I've stripped 3rd once in mine when it was tad over 200bhp atw, it was wheelspinning, and then suddenly gripped and boom 3rd gear said good night. However, I ran more boost/more power and didn't have an issue.
Would 250bhp at the wheels do this on a regular basis? Or were you on the be set up when you had 270atw?

I'm not really in a position to answer that mate to be honest - I went straight to BE and never ran boost on the MA. To the best of my knowledge though, Titch, Shaun, and Brent all ran MA's for a while and didn't kill them instantly - I think a lot has to do with having some mechanical sympathy. Colin got through a lot of boxes because he has none! I think it's fair to say though you're asking for trouble - even the most careful driver will get the situation like you've described eventually - loss of traction then a sudden gain of grip. And 3rd gear seems to be the weak point on the MA's from what I've read.

I once asked John @ GMC at what point the MA gives up and he said "120bhp" ;) I think thats enough said hehe. You're living on borrowed time on an MA. :)

Get a BE in - if nothing else, you'll not ever be bothered about a diff swap again - 20 minutes, boom. done. Do that in your MA. :D

The BE is a better box in SO many areas. Gearkits are far more common, easier to work on, stronger. And you can do a complete conversion for around the £800 mark now so it's a sound investment for sure :)

bugger, I was hoping you'd have ran the ma for a while! I want to get a bit more power from mine but I don't know when would be best to call it a day, 200 atw proved to be very reliable and I'm slightly nervous about going for more power because of the extra expense it could incur.
The be conversion has always been something I've tried to avoid because I never wanted the expense of it, is it really worth it? Have you had any transmission related problems with yours?
Another thing putting me off the be is how much i spent on a friggin ma box by putting the quaife diff in it!

sell the quaife -someone will bite your hand off for it. Plus the BE diffs are cheaper so you'll not lose money on it :)

I ran a BE without a lsd for 4-5 months and it was a lot of fun (although ovbiously span a fair bit). I know it's expensive but you'll have peace of mind. How much is that worth to you?

I've broken a BE box (well, it started to make some fairly horrible noises before we swapped it for another) and Colin's broke one on the dyno. To my knowledge other people haven't though so we might just have had weak boxes for those. Titch drives like he stole it EVERYWHERE and smashes it through the box and his is bombproof - I'd really recommend it. :)

you can recoup some of that money though cant you mate.. thats what im doing. runnig my quaifed ma until winter (unless it breaks in between) then doing BE conversion over winter. the BE box conversions will continue to get cheaper as people become more aware of it and more people offer the conversions. good things is, we can get the rich people like ross,dean,colin t spend all money getting them right so when it comes to the peasants running them they should be mor affordable and more reliable.

ideal, thanks guys. So you reckon 800 for a full be conversion? Shafts etc?

And danny, money is always an issue for me! :panic:

haha thats a bit mean :p

I consider them "cheap" now - you can get a set of brand new "ultimate F1 superdupa suck-you-off spec" shafts made up complete for £600, the box for £100 from a scrappy, the mounts new for £150, the selector rods you can adapt your own, new intermediate bearing for £80. Thrust bearing? £20. Fork arm £5 from a scrappy. Sorted. Don't need to diff it to start. Sell the diff'd MA box for what? £600? Only need to find about £250 to convert it.

Sorted. Future proofed, and peace of mind :)