Saxperience - Citroen Saxo Forum
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Saxperience - Citroen Saxo Forum (http://www.saxperience.com/forum/index.php)
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-   -   JP's 220+bhp NA 16v Mango Westcoast - 2015 updates! (http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=202333)

jpsaxo 26th January 2012 16:08
Ryan - car currently weights 821kg's with half a tank of fuel. 170 / 0.821 =207bhp per ton

Carbon bonnet (10kg's) + other savings will bring it down to 800kgs or less. 225 / 0.800 = 281bhp per ton

Ryan 26th January 2012 16:13
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsaxo (Post 5778506)
Ryan - car currently weights 821kg's with half a tank of fuel. 170 / 0.821 =207bhp per ton

Carbon bonnet (10kg's) + other savings will bring it down to 800kgs or less. 225 / 0.800 = 281bhp per ton
Removing the half a tank of fuel would already bring it down to close to 800 alone.

Still would be seen as fat though next to davep :zainy:

jpsaxo 26th January 2012 16:42
Anyway....as Sandy says, the most important thing is drivability, midrange power, not talking figures down the pub

Sandy309 26th January 2012 17:12
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrighty89 (Post 5778424)
Love that quote. Every post I see from you is making me more keen for you to build me an engine and discard turbo conversion.

In terms of road driving is it worth going from PH4/734/7's to solid grind cams?
It depends what you want to achieve, but if you can do what you want to do on hydraulics, then it's cheaper and easier. Well done solids will be pretty low maintenence, bear in mind that many modern road engines have them (most Fords now). Adjustment if required is alot of hassle if not part of a rebuild.

Ryan 26th January 2012 18:45
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsaxo (Post 5778583)
Anyway....as Sandy says, the most important thing is drivability, midrange power, not talking figures down the pub
It's a shame most people ignore throttle bodies and the overall improvement over the curve because they don't give huge peak figures.

Will be good when back though, the noise of the solid lifters alone make it more fun :)

crisppug 26th January 2012 19:36
Awsom info on this thread :)

i think once you have a modified engine you do realise how the power delivery/curve is very important.as there is no point having say a jump of 70hp in say 1000 rpm - as this becomes very undriveble.

im looking forward to hearing your oppinions josh once you have got used to this engine :)

Ashleyp 26th January 2012 20:03
Good stuff Josh, suprised you've not got bored of this after all the changes!

looking forward to the end results dude :)

Olly 26th January 2012 22:06
sounds like you should have got a twingo jp. Sandy, why havent you advised your customers to swith to twingo's too?

hard_corejoeboy 26th January 2012 22:08
Cos he wouldn't make any money....duh!

Sandy309 27th January 2012 06:19
If it was all about the money Joe, I wouldn't be building engines! I left my last proper job earning about 3x what I earn now.

I would agree that alot of people would benefit from tuition, or practice and standard cars for many people are a better choice than modifying; not sure about doing a scrapyard challenge V6 conversion though, I've seen some very nasty cars like that. The common thread among my customers is the passion for the cars (even some oddballs, like a Citroen Visa or V8 Metro). I think you understand that really and if you don't, you're probably not qualified to criticise.

rushy_23 27th January 2012 09:06
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy309 (Post 5778359)
Thank you :) The delivery is every bit as important as the figures, what happens at 4-7k rpm is more important to real performance than peak power. The difference in lap times at Combe for my race engines versus mildly tuned race 106/Saxos (ie cams and remap etc), is around 6-7 seconds/minute. Also interesting to note that my guys regularly took Pole positions, against circa 500bhp turbo Leons, Tomcats, even the odd Evo on occasion. A well set up and driven NA Saxo/106 with a good engine can be very hard to beat with any real world road car.
But more than anything, I like my engines to feel exciting from the moment the key's turned, if you don't have to be flat out to enjoy it, that's alot of extra value.
I was a little vague in my post but this is what I ment, power/torque and the graph to show whats going on inbetween :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsaxo (Post 5778508)
Ryan - car currently weights 821kg's with half a tank of fuel. 170 / 0.821 =207bhp per ton

Carbon bonnet (10kg's) + other savings will bring it down to 800kgs or less. 225 / 0.800 = 281bhp per ton
800kg's is quite an achievement, sorry if you've mentioned it before but what have you done more recently to reduce the weight so much?

I know you have a lot of carbon now, and the interior is ripped out. Have you ditched the PAS and ABS, removed a lot of the electrical devices?

I think when Danny weighed mine a long time ago, it was roughly 850, will be lighter in its current state now but nowhere near 800 just yet ;)

AlexB 27th January 2012 09:19
Rushy a westcoast doesnt have half the stuff you listed
only pas iirc

A forged balanced motor weighs less in total than oe and parts like stripped back looms ect that make the difference

The bits you cant see add up hence i got mine with full interior down to 880ish from 960 standard with a lot of the big stuff (pas abs leccy windows glass and metal panels) still in place
I think i could aim for 860 possibly 850 with full interior due to just stripping little items and my fg bonnet and rear polycarbs

rushy_23 27th January 2012 11:35
Actually forgot this is (was lol?) a Westcoast originally. Good point.

Totally understand, as mentioned a lot of little bits were removed from mine, with your help actually after Danny did the weigh in.

I think 850kgs is possible as you mentioned, dont S2 Rallye's weigh around that much standard?

AlexB 27th January 2012 11:42
Youd be suprised at whats gone on mine now tbh and once you get inventive with a hole saw the weight just falls away lol tbh i rekon on most cars on here theres at least 5-10 kg the owners have never considered removing because its hidden away where you dont see it

rushy_23 27th January 2012 11:46
Hole saw is a bit too hardcore for me, so you though Alex ;)

AlexB 27th January 2012 13:37
Dont hole saw.anywere you can see

Then you dont have to be hardcore to live with it
bumper supports and the back of the dash are good areas to start lol

jpsaxo 27th January 2012 16:13
Rush - fully stripped
Sound deadening all removed (apart from top of the dash which I choose to keep in)
Tar removed
Loom from dash to the back stripped and unnecessary bits removed
Carbon boot / poly carb rear window / carbon spoiler
Carbon roof
Carbon roof cross members
Front door cards removed
Carbon Kevlar seats (will save loads of weight vs standard ones)
Seat bars welded in (alot lighter than standard subframe)
Aluminium side mounts (lighter than steel ones)
OMP steering wheel (lighter than standard)
Dash lightened

Don't forget;

- I still have a full carpet
- Cage ADD's another 20kgs compared to standard.
- New exhaust system will be alot lighter than BTB system

rushy_23 27th January 2012 16:58
Obviously Alex lol! I wasnt thinking to attack the outside of anyones car.

Fantastic, the carbon and poly carbs I expect to be the main weight savers.

Ryan 27th January 2012 17:04
Josh are you going to retail leccy windows like I am?

I really cant be arsed with the ball ache of polycarbing the front windows due to the limitations it brings on the road/toll booth.

jpsaxo 27th January 2012 18:35
Just gonna leave the electric ones in for now Ryan, prob go to "windy" windows when I can be arsed to change them over.

Rush - roof (inc cross members) saves over 20kgs
boot inc spoiler and polycarb saved 20kgs, so there's 40kgs.

If I went full out with the hole saw, got all the loom stripped down and did a few other bits I could get it to 775kg's I reckon. I'll save that for another year :D


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