Advice on turbo setups :)
 

Looking at going boost! Any advice on turbo setups etc and prices

Cheers

budget?

Dont really have a set budget obviously dont want to spend a ridiculous amount of money but i want a decent set up! Just seeing what my options are

spend £1500 to get a vts roughly 170bhp @ 6-8psi on STD internals..

OR spend £3-4000k to get a vts roughly 230-300bhp @ 15-20psi on low comps..

Can set up a low boost set up for under a grand reliably if you know what you're doing.

Depends how much work you're looking to do yourself?

Well im up for doing work myself as my dads a mechanic so can help out, just obviously cost of parts and mapping etc cheers

Your looking at 1500 for a dp engineering basic kit, intercooler, intercooler piping, ecu/ mf2 all extra. Could get cheaper stuff but dp is quality kit. Cituning kit costs similar and isn't as good. Dunno if you need bigger injectors for low boost

cheers for the advice lads. Sent an email to atspeed hopefully here back from them soon

Those figures need adjusting... by miles. :wacko:

To the OP - set your budget. Double it. Go from there. And I'm not joking. If you budget £1,500 allow more like £2,500. The budget will dictate how much power you can get, unless budget isn't a problem, then just pick how you want the car to behave - is there a reason you want to go turbo? Supercharged is far kinder to every component, can be just as powerful to all intents and purposes for what's usable on the road.

Are you chasing pub figures or want a road or track weapon?

I can see what you mean about budget looking at your car absolute weapon! I would be happy with around 200 bhp! Dont really have a budget just dont want to be spending ridiculous amounts as obviously have to uprate brakes etc! I want a track weapon that i can drive on the road aswell! Any advice on setups or preferences mate?

200bhp is loads for the road I promise. If the car is stripped (ie light) you'll get it down to about 800kgs, so will have a very respectable power to weight ratio that'll really show up a huge range of "proper" cars :) Roads that are really really good fun to drive down with 200bhp become almost undrivable at 300bhp. If its 200bhp or thereabouts, you can do that without going low comps but of course, you'll want more power once you've got the bug ;)

As you've noticed, it's the incidentals that add up - brakes are just one part. go towards the 300bhp mark, and gearbox is another issue that'll see you £1000+ lighter.

A year ago, I'd have recommended the DP engineering setup, but after we had a problem with the exhaust manifold that we reported to DP they didn't fix it - I saw a brand new DP manifold just two weeks ago with the same fault. In our case, the fault was bad enough to rip a manifold stud out the head and caused us a lot of problems. The manifold IS good, but really - for 200bhp, a home made manifold is more than enough, even though it looks ugly :)

There's plenty of ways to keep the costs down from using a GT3 intercooler to using second hand clio injectors, etc etc. There's lots of ways, especially if you do most of the work yourself. There's a HUGE amount to be saved just in the management route too - you can go MF2 with a basic setup, but even if you go Omex or Emerald, you shouldn't be paying ANY more than £450 for mapping from start to finish. :)

look at dp engineering stuff, very good

also what ecu do you have? single plug or 3 plug? if its single pug have a look into the predator ecu

As I said - I wouldn't trust a new manifold still because of the problems we had, and from what I've seen of the brand new one the other week.

This (and a stud thread removed from the head):


caused by this:


I prefer my manifold flanges to be flat ;)

We had to shave the manifold down after finding out the hard way. :(

Overall though, the manifold is very good - If I was doing it again though, I'd have the manifold headers made individually rather than as one single plate. :)

well thats the first bad thing ive heard about DP personally. its still what id go for

Don't get me wrong - I'm not slating it. But they still haven't fixed the warping of the manifolds that is created when they make it, even though they know about it. Still - if it only affects me, and hasn't affected anyone else then I guess mine was just worse (typical luck).

It's still what I'd go for (obviously - it's what I run!) - there's nothing else off the shelf that comes close in quality.

Cheers for the advice guys! So many options its hard to choose:( yeah ill be happy at 200 bhp for a while quick for the road and a laugh on the track! Got a guide of rough prices from atspeed what is the minimum from this list i would need to get 200bhp as could obvious invest in more stuff as time went on

hi

here are some rough price guides (some prices have gone up since then - but gives you rough idea) prices on our website are correct.

Turbo conversion stage 1 (250bhp) parts list

*DP engineering tubular manifold-
GT25R turbo -
DP 2.5" stainless downpipe - *

DP TURBO KIT - £1582

ARP rod bolts - £90

9:1 de-comp package £195

mocal oil cooler kit with remote filter take off £250
custom 2.5" exhaust system £300
491cc injectors £342
bosch 4bar FPR £58
walbro 255 fuel pump £80
Ford coilpack and lead set £90

Ford coilpack bracket £15

Magnetti marelli 3 bar map sensor £70
helix 6 paddle clutch kit £370

Release bearing £20
omex 600 engine management + turbo spec wiring loom £765
turbosmart dump valve £125
budget radiator, header tank and intercooler kit £350

silicone hoses, £200

vacuum hoses, £40

boost pipes (straight lengths ali tube) £20

air filter, £60

coolant hoses, £30

boost controller, £175

cooling fan, £80

wiring consumables, £50

turbo water cooling connections, £25

engine oils, £28

oil filter £5

gearbox oils, £20

antifreeze, £7

battery box, £25

uprated engine mounts, £150

nuts/bolts, £20

head bolts, £50

cambelt kit £90



sub total: £5777

vat: £1010.98

TOTAL: £6787.98

cheers for the help guys

Let me adjust those prices for you a bit - give me a moment and I'll go through it and give you some links. There's plenty of money to be saved.

wow! thats dear for the price that cost rather buy a glanza v!

i know thats what i thought thats why i was asking if you really need all of that haha

Remember this kit comes with the water cooling connection kit you're being quoted for elsewhere too...
http://www.dp-engineering.nl/EN/prod..._16v_compo.php

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MOCAL-REMOTE-O...9#ht_500wt_922 - remote filter location kit, £90. Plus the 13 row cooler - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mocal-Oil-Cool...#ht_1434wt_905 - thats £60. Contact Kam Racing etc for a unique setup. Saving £100.

Very good price that :)

How much?? Ouch. Remember thats plus vat so £400. Try these: http://www.gmcmotorsport.co.uk/engin.../prod_255.html - £250 all in delivered - saving £150.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-Audi-Seat-1...#ht_500wt_1156
Saving £18

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WALBRO-GSS342-...#ht_2213wt_905
Saving £11

Ouch. 106 diesel Rad (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PEUGEOT-106-CI...#ht_1399wt_905) - £40. GMC Header tank (http://www.gmcmotorsport.co.uk/super.../prod_500.html) - £70. GT3 intercooler (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/UNIVERSAL-INTE...d#ht_772wt_905) - £75. Total £185. Saving £165.

Using Samco maybe. Use ASH and you can probably halve that. Saving £100

More like £20, but okay...

Fair price that :)

And that.

only coolant hose you need is to turbo - about £10 max. Saving £20

Omex does this onboard - no need for an external boost controller if you're on a budget. Saving £175.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10-RADIATOR-CO...item1c1b146241
£30, saving £50

Baker BM ones are much nicer than the vibra technics ones imo - and cheaper too. I've lost the leaflet I got from them at the FCS, but seem to remember it was about £90 for the set. Saving £60.

All the above ebay parts etc are including vat already. 20% adds up...

Above already saves you £969, and that's without really shopping around.

It may sound silly when you isolate all the parts (like saving £11 here, or £15 there) but when you buy 15 components and save £10 on each one, that's £150 towards something else. And that's the attitude I went into my first build with. Save where you can, spend where you want :)

PS - just to add - it depends what you're trying to do. When I built mine last year, obviously I was trying to do everything on as low cost as I could, but still build a decent setup. We managed it with parts like the above. We did the work ourselves, so saved a lot of money there too, sourcing parts as cheaply as possibly everywhere we could. There IS something to be said for just handing the car to someone to get you all the parts (or do the build for you!) if thats' your thing. I wanted to save money so sourced and researched every part I possibly could. :)

Dont forget your mapping sessions either - £400-500 max.

Cheers mate thats a real help! is that list all i would need to get the setup running? as that makes it alot cheaper :)

you still need to buy a solenoid to use the omex built in boost controll feature.

there are other kits available that will comfotably forfill your power needs.

There's always more parts you forget. For example the boss you need to weld into the alloy top boost pipe for the dump valve take off. Things like that - or the host clamps - we spent easily £100 on hose clamps alone.

Danny is right also - you need a solenoid to use the omex boost controller. Still a lot cheaper than the Gizzmo. :)

As Danny also said, there's other setups you could do if you're on a real budget - it's all about what you want, Vs what you can afford! Plenty of people have done a full build for £2000 ish - it's all about what you can do without and what you can make yourself :)

Cheers way need someone with your knowhow around my way to help out haha how good is the mf2 ecu you were talking about! I ideally want it to be a decent spec but not costing to much just so i can get it going but obviously i would probably add it it in the future

i personally wouldnt use an mf2. for the price the predator ecu's are id get one of those instead.


look at the cituning kits. they are more affordable. not as good quality as the dp stuff but a cheaper way to having a turbocharged running rather than talking about it.

Again, listen to Danny :p

The predator is a good ECU mappable (iirc for free by Andy still included in the purchase price?) by almost everywhere as it's megasquirt based. Only works on single plug looms though, but I'm presuming thats what you've got.

There's plenty of people now who have gone boost from various directions - full on homebrew budget builds to balls out mega-power cars. The best bit is here on saxp there's a lot of people willing to give you help where they can. :)

If you are going to get DP get it through Atspeed, they have the best prices for the gear on the market to my knowledge. Make sure you do shop around for those parts, ebay, spoox, everywhere mate! Trust me money can be saved.

I know the person who had a warped manifold, and i have seen it aswell! its out by 1.3mm some say it will be fine etc, but this person has gone and got his smoothed out! Something a customer should not be doing with a finished product.

Or you could take your car and 2800 quid to mr pred guy luthor, come back the next day and you have a low boost saxo. Magic.

So much useful info in this thread, was a good read and has helped me alot.

have a look on the predator affiliates thread, the guy does in and out conversions on a low boost set up for 2800, which he says will take you to about 170bhp and you might need an exhaust system as it only includes the down pipe.

theres alot of ppl willing to help, lots of reading research forst though :y:, my set up is "budget build" but not bodged, its been done safley, also VERY cheaply

the predator 3 plug is nearly completed, but for all those who cant wait (like myself) im running a single plug pred in my 3 plug vtr ;)

With the greatest of respect to Andy whom I get on with well, you'll be waiting a LONG time for the 3 plug ecu from him. He told me it was "almost complete" back in janurary ... 2010. Here we are 18 months later and it's still no further on. I even offered him a couple of thousand pounds just to be part of the development as I wanted involvement - eventually I went omex because I just couldn't wait forever on a promise. :(

omg this is a very eye opening thread, lets keep this information going cus i have been thinking loads about turboing lol

thanks for all the help guys! Cant wait to get this started so much support around :) the pred guy sounds good but im looking for 200+bhp and would like to do some things myself :) still undecided on setup

if your thinking of turboing, give it all dont half do it. as tiny mistakes here and their put you under stress near the completion of the build.

this thread is full of info how to do it, the site is.

i practically built my own low boost saxo with nothing other than reading and asking a few questions on here. and im fairly shit with a spanner....

going to add this to the turbo guide thread based on the help Ross has given above, good example that if you shop round you can do it on a budget and that goes on all scales just depends how pretty you want certain things

170bhp on low boost really doesn't sound worth the effort to me

i put my turbo on still using standard internals and saw 230bhp at 9.5psi. only thin i had was a 1.9mm hg to lower the compression slightly. i ran the car on more boost too and still had no issues with it and it did make for a genuinely quick car.
just a bit of extra info to add there, you don't need to go all forged to get a decent power gain.

totally agree thre..cant understand how you can get as little as 170hp on a turbo 16v?? what psi? 3-4lol..

maddison's car is running proof things can work without spending shit loads.

also to add, im going to expect around 280hp'ish when mine is mapped very soon.. and thats with standard internals.