205 1.9 16v GTi Group A Rally Car - MI-16...Engine In...Pics

[MJRallying]

Originally Posted by pugmender

your idea of knackered is full canvas on show, can't regroove that! lol

anyway what pads you gonna run , don't tell me 1144, fast road, they will be s**t after a couple of stage miles the way you work behind the wheel, so it may be better option to go for a rally raid set up for cross country, cause thats where ya will be, in the weeds lol

The 1144's are fine when used with 4 pots.

[rushy_23]

I use 1144s with my Wilwoods and they are great for the road. BUT Ive read that after given some abuse they do fade pretty badly!

Toad is running 1155s I think with his Hi Specs and really rates them.


Shame on the engine build, but the new plans sound great also. The 4.8 FD sounds pretty mental!

[MJRallying]

Originally Posted by rushy_23

I use 1144s with my Wilwoods and they are great for the road. BUT Ive read that after given some abuse they do fade pretty badly!

Toad is running 1155s I think with his Hi Specs and really rates them.


Shame on the engine build, but the new plans sound great also. The 4.8 FD sounds pretty mental!

Yes well i will give them a try seeing as there coming with brakes....

Yes the 4.8 will make it an animal

[rushy_23]

Yea obviously try them and see how you get on.

[Jackman]

You disappoint me !

Mi16

[MJRallying]

Originally Posted by rushy_23

Yea obviously try them and see how you get on.

Yep will do

Originally Posted by Jackman

You disappoint me !

Mi16

What do you mean ?

[MJRallying]

Update: 17/11/09

Found an engine thats done 70k and come out of a 205 dimma project....i won it on ebay for £231 lol

Thats with everything inc gearbox etc

Will be using my BE3 box with gripper diff and 4.8 FD so will be rapid...going to put my carbs on it and going to leave the cams std for now as it will be in the 5's to 60 anyway...

Will fully strip it and change headgasket, big end bearings, water pump, cambelt etc etc

Going to use a peugeot sport sump baffle with a few modifications to try stop oil surge...

Will post up pics when i have it...

[raunchz]

lol, I can't quite work out whether this is more of a bargain than the 4 pots !!

Look forward to pictures !!

[Ryanp]

16v makes sene

[pugmender]

[QUOTE=MJRallying;3848320]Update: 17/11/09

some people fall in s**t and come out smelling of rose's, your one! lol

[KamRacing]

good choice in going 16v. Realistically you will have about 175-180bhp with a standard engine and throttlebodies/carbs. I've not seen more than that on realistic rolling roads. There are a few disadvantages to using the Mi16 though and the main one is going to be oil surge. The problem is the large open head design meaning it can hold a lot of oil. The drainage is simply not adequate for very high speed left hand corners.
The sump should work though I would suggest tapping new drainage holes in the back of the head (in the corners) and running additional drainage hoses back to the sump.
Newer heads like on the gti-6 have two separate compartments for the inlet and exhaust valvetrain which eliminated this issue.

[MJRallying]

Originally Posted by Ryan

16v makes sene

[QUOTE=pugmender;3849790]

Originally Posted by MJRallying

Update: 17/11/09

some people fall in s**t and come out smelling of rose's, your one! lol

Yep

Originally Posted by KamRacing

good choice in going 16v. Realistically you will have about 175-180bhp with a standard engine and throttlebodies/carbs. I've not seen more than that on realistic rolling roads. There are a few disadvantages to using the Mi16 though and the main one is going to be oil surge. The problem is the large open head design meaning it can hold a lot of oil. The drainage is simply not adequate for very high speed left hand corners.
The sump should work though I would suggest tapping new drainage holes in the back of the head (in the corners) and running additional drainage hoses back to the sump.
Newer heads like on the gti-6 have two separate compartments for the inlet and exhaust valvetrain which eliminated this issue.

Yes i agree with your figures, ive spoken to hiflowheads and im getting some decent cams fitted and head modified to suit so hopefully around 190-200bhp rr depending...

The oil surge issue seems to be solved by the trap door design in the sump....it allows so much through then shuts apparently a few people who race mi16's says this cured it.

Plus rallying isnt anything like the grip you have all the time on a track (well not as much)

[MJRallying]

Originally Posted by raunchz

lol, I can't quite work out whether this is more of a bargain than the 4 pots !!

Look forward to pictures !!

I think there both bargains in there own ways

I will put pics up asap.

[KamRacing]

[QUOTE=MJRallying;3850732]

Originally Posted by pugmender

Yep




Yes i agree with your figures, ive spoken to hiflowheads and im getting some decent cams fitted and head modified to suit so hopefully around 190-200bhp rr depending...

The oil surge issue seems to be solved by the trap door design in the sump....it allows so much through then shuts apparently a few people who race mi16's says this cured it.

Plus rallying isnt anything like the grip you have all the time on a track (well not as much)

Well i'll disagree on less risk in rallying. The trapdoor sump design does not really help as it does not solve the issue. The problem is not there as such, but rather the fact the head can hold so much oil, if the oil cannot return to the sump, you spin the shells as its sucked away from where you need it. I have known a number of rally competitors running mi16's and they all had oil issues. There are solutions to either mask the issue or solve it completely, but I'd be spending a few quid now to save money later on. If you are running anything better than standard road tyres you will have issues. It would probably cost £100 or less to get some holes machined and tapped, then some braided hose to run to the sump. This has been used to good effect by many raceteams.
Another solution is to run solid lifters and followers as you tend to run a oilway restrictor, but this is expensive.Theres quite simply bags of information on the oil problems of this engine so i'd suggest you do a lot of research.
I know these engines very well and my race engine is getting the gti-6 head as its far superior and will eliminate the problem.

[MJRallying]

[QUOTE=KamRacing;3850972]

Originally Posted by MJRallying

Well i'll disagree on less risk in rallying. The trapdoor sump design does not really help as it does not solve the issue. The problem is not there as such, but rather the fact the head can hold so much oil, if the oil cannot return to the sump, you spin the shells as its sucked away from where you need it. I have known a number of rally competitors running mi16's and they all had oil issues. There are solutions to either mask the issue or solve it completely, but I'd be spending a few quid now to save money later on. If you are running anything better than standard road tyres you will have issues. It would probably cost £100 or less to get some holes machined and tapped, then some braided hose to run to the sump. This has been used to good effect by many raceteams.
Another solution is to run solid lifters and followers as you tend to run a oilway restrictor, but this is expensive.Theres quite simply bags of information on the oil problems of this engine so i'd suggest you do a lot of research.
I know these engines very well and my race engine is getting the gti-6 head as its far superior and will eliminate the problem.

I will probably do the head idea and save my money and do cams at a later stage....as with my gear ratios and on 45's its going to be quick enough to get going...

[SpeedFreakGTi]

thats sick

[MJRallying]

Originally Posted by SpeedFreakGTi

thats sick

Cheers Mate

[MaRiO89]

Cant wait to get the old Mi16 in the 205..Gona be awesome..

Makesure you cam it too asap, i tend to get bored out on the stages, the car needs some serious poke..

[pugmender]

[QUOTE=KamRacing;3850552]

regarding the oil starvation issue of the mi 16, is this a case of less being better?, what i'm about to say may be wrong but here goes, the mi 16 head indeed holds a lot of oil, partially due to the poor return oilways, so we need to have a method of keeping enough oil in the sump, so by fitting an uprated oil pump spring we are in my thinking, pumping more oil to the head where it will struggle to return to the sump.
we are therefore fitting a pts sump baffle, standard oil pump,24 row cooler, and not using zero grade oil, we will use 10w 40.
whether this works we shall see, but i see no point in pumping oil to the head that can't get back, we will also modify the breather system and use a catch tank.

[MJRallying]

Originally Posted by MaRiO89

Cant wait to get the old Mi16 in the 205..Gona be awesome..

Makesure you cam it too asap, i tend to get bored out on the stages, the car needs some serious poke..

You just dont get bored you idiot lol

[QUOTE=pugmender;3879216]

Originally Posted by KamRacing

regarding the oil starvation issue of the mi 16, is this a case of less being better?, what i'm about to say may be wrong but here goes, the mi 16 head indeed holds a lot of oil, partially due to the poor return oilways, so we need to have a method of keeping enough oil in the sump, so by fitting an uprated oil pump spring we are in my thinking, pumping more oil to the head where it will struggle to return to the sump.
we are therefore fitting a pts sump baffle, standard oil pump,24 row cooler, and not using zero grade oil, we will use 10w 40.
whether this works we shall see, but i see no point in pumping oil to the head that can't get back, we will also modify the breather system and use a catch tank.

Sounds good, lets just hope it works.