Jacks Cossack Grey S2 Turbo - Page 4 - Saxperience

sexy_gt · 26th December 2012, 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthor1

...cool a shiny box containing an ECU not connected in any way to you car

I've got customers in Scotland who have ran the ECU for over 2 years, SexyGT has had his a couple of years now and all he does is thrash it on trackdays, now it's a 220 wheel BHP supercharged monster, still running OK.

@the wheels andy

Jack-Cooley · 26th December 2012, 20:27

Meh, no ecu means ill run the oem one.

If I buy an ecu I'll run the dta. That's again not my problem as I said all ecu's will run boost at some point.

Internals and externals are my problem

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e8_pqck · 26th December 2012, 20:34

Make sure you can get single pistons as replacements. I had to buy a single wossner no probs but mate had to scrap a full set of omega's add they don't sell singles.

Almost all rods are the same too, only a handful of factories that make them but they just get branded when they leave. Wossner UK do a good price, got mine for 300 brand new, but went in with someone else so that was 2 sets. If you haggle for pistons though they will do you a deal no doubt as there's write a mark up on them.

Ross^p · 26th December 2012, 20:35

As Meirion said - not all ecus will run boost.

Is completely your choice, but you have several experienced players advising you against trying to run the stock ecu for boost. I'd listen to them. They have no interest in selling you anything or conning you or .. Whatever. They are trying to help.

sexy_gt · 26th December 2012, 20:45

andy mentioned the dta does not have a idle control unit,

the predator ecu does...again another pro +...

all that and she starts and idles better than most standard cars.

even with throttle bodies it would idle at very low 500rpm from stone cold and be sweet as a nut.

gazza808 · 26th December 2012, 20:53

I've never had the need for an icv tbh,
Most people ditch them also when going standalone.
Dta have had their fair share of problems, was a recent batch of s40's dying and having to be repaired.

Ross^p · 26th December 2012, 21:09

Never ran an icv either here, and mine idles (and hot/cold starts) better than OEM. Perfect every time. BUT if it's a feature you want...

Jack-Cooley · 26th December 2012, 21:32

What does the icv/idle control unit do?

If you don't run it what does it do?

I'm torn still but may end up with a non-stock ecu. If I run dta that's .£840 max inc tax & loom. For the onyx its £660 plus loom which is a good £500 off colin. Who else does looms cheaper for omex's?

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sexy_gt · 26th December 2012, 21:38

icv idle control valve

predator ecu do not require a different loom. they are made with budget in mind, plug and play into the standard loom.

looking forward to seeing a new boosted car on the scene anyways

jpsaxo · 26th December 2012, 21:41

I must add... my Sandy Brown race engine runs on the dta s40 and it idles as good as the standard engine (probably better) - still at standard idle speed, and is producing over double the standard engine power from NA!

In a lot of cases it's as much to do with the mappers skill as the hardware & software he uses

Jack-Cooley · 26th December 2012, 21:51

Alrighty we'll see what happens won't we guys.

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tweeqd · 26th December 2012, 22:43

As stated above my turbo tu runs DTA but no ICV, idles absolutly spot on

As ian said, a corsa rad and ebay fmic and makes over 300 bhp

Make the right choice on the ecu though, some offer back up and assistance but wont deal with you once you have payed for it

Sandy309 · 27th December 2012, 06:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by gazza808

I've never had the need for an icv tbh,
Most people ditch them also when going standalone.
Dta have had their fair share of problems, was a recent batch of s40's dying and having to be repaired.

The race engine builder I do most of my mapping for has DTA ECUs delivered pretty much weekly and I'm not aware of any issues? ICV is more important on plenum engines than ITB'd. You can usually achieve a good idle without one, but it's a crutch in some cases. DTA will run normal Bosch type ICV no problem, just not the Mag Marelli 106/Saxo stepper type.
Regarding mapping and the ECU type, if you've got good reasons to use a certain system, people playing top trumps with spec lists etc will probably not understand why you have a preference. I map all the main systems on a regular basis and I prefer DTA, I make no secret of that; I can't get as effective dynamic results on any other system in the same time frame, it's as simple as that. Also not many people realise how much functionality it has, that works really well, eg the Launch control, which is a full wheel slip strategy rather than the simple rev limit of most others! It even does full boost control per gear and you can split TPS and MAP load as you wish, with good resolution and variable sites etc.
I've tried my best not to be a MegaSquirt snob, because on paper, why shouldn't it do what it's supposed to do? It's just maths after all? But the reality is, every MS job I've had has come back to me, performing differently to when I set it up. Of course the electronics should be reliable, if correctly chosen components are used and it's assembled in a professional way; but problems are more commonly down to the condition/performance of original looms or home made looms and alterations that have made to them. If you do everything correctly, then yes it should work fine, but the reason many GOOD mappers will avoid MS jobs, is that they are synonymous with poor quality installations and problems beyond what you can control in the software. The other issue is that you only have a limited amount of time to work on the job and for alot of mappers, that means starting with pretty strong base maps and compensation/calibration values that will account well for conditions beyond the session. If you're working on unfamiliar territory on that front, then you're going to struggle.
I've seen Calibrations/Compensations from most of the mappers mentioned above, that have clearly not been properly resolved (crank sensor lead angle is almost always an arbitrary value, rather than checked and although many bleat on about the importance of AT correction, they just whack in Boyles law based values instead of observing and offsetting the effects of AT), so I don't think there's any seniority here!

As always, I think the strongest advice, is to choose the mapper first and take their advice on the system. But bear in mind what the future holds, you may well want to change mapper down the line, will the system be well supported elsewhere? Also the retained value of the main aftermarket ECUs is almost as strong as the new cost, where others can be worth much less.

Jack-Cooley · 27th December 2012, 11:00

Wow.

Amazing answer thanks sandy.

As said wayne is happy with any ecu and I've seen good results from him. If you wasn't so far away I'd have you map the thing. Cornwall's a good 6 hour drive for me though

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jpsaxo · 27th December 2012, 12:36

6hours is nothing, when you jump in the car and have the perfect map & idle it will be worth way more than the 6hours drive.... No pressure Sandy

jones91 · 27th December 2012, 14:09

As JP has just said, 6 hours is nothing considering mapping in my opinion is by far the most important part of any high spec build...... I made an awful decision of letting a local guy map my car and it was the worst thing I ever did

Mapping as far as I'm concerned is make or break in any build, get it right and you have endless hours of fun in a reliable car, get it wrong and it will probably cost a fortune in top of what you've already spent

dannygti · 27th December 2012, 14:14

I certainly wouldn't go with these ECU's that are bodged together in somebody's house.. I have first hand experience in this.. The technical support is dire at best!! Some people even sell ecu's without testing them properly! Work that one out.

I would stick to the better company's as if something goes wrong they can just send another one out instead of giving excuses why your car has sat around for months on end.

tweeqd · 27th December 2012, 15:04

I agree danny i have a customers saxo with one of them ecus on it and its crap, drinks fuel and wont idle and the guy who made the ecu and mapped it now wont have anything to do with it

My last engine was destroyed by a bad map, well only 1 piston and the block but as omega dont sell the pistons anymore it cost me a new block, new set of pistons and a full rebuild, and thats on top of the £400 mapping cost

Jack-Cooley · 27th December 2012, 16:46

Weird question,

Sandy can you map the oe ecu?

Sandy309 · 28th December 2012, 06:21

No, I don't have the software and emulator required to map the OE ECU and from what I understand it's rather limiting compared to aftermarket.

I've got alot of customers travel six hours or more, rally cars shipped over from the Channel Islands and Ireland too! But if you can find someone good nearer, then you have the advantage of being able to go back easily if there are any issues or you need to make changes for upgrades etc later. Also I'm limited by the rollers I use locally, which have an upper practical limit of around 300bhp. I occasionally map in other people's rollers, but it's not as easy working outside my familiar environment.