which headgasket?!

[smokeandpoke]

Afternoon


Had my JP4 head skimmed for use on a J4 block.
For now, I'm planning on running it n/a just to let any problems worm their way out.

Am I correct in thinking I need to use the JP4 haedgasket for clearance?
Also, when I had it skimmed the bloke didn't give me a measurement he just described it as a 'light skim'


Therefore I have various queries...

A) Will I get away with one headgasket
B) Will it run okay if I double them up now in anticipation for turbo time, or will this cause more harm than good and is generally frowned upon? I'm sure people have got away with half a bar on double gaskets?


Thanks guys

[Chipwizards]

Doubling gaskets isn't really ideal.
How much power and torque are you looking for?

[axsaxoman]

dry build engine to see
refit head with old gasket --just nip it down +time up cams
having already put a lump of clay ontop of a piston --turn engine over 2 turns by hand with no plugs in it -remove head and see how much clearnace you have --by thickness of clay

[smokeandpoke]

Originally Posted by Chipwizards

Doubling gaskets isn't really ideal.
How much power and torque are you looking for?

I'd be happy with 200bhp on a safe 7psi. Might be a tad optimistic.
Want it to be reliable enough that it starts and runs every time, a few times a week. Just want it to be good fun, I'm not trying to push it or blow it up.

I've spoken to a few people and apparently running double gaskets on a n/a set up (just to get it on the road and find any other little niggles) will wreak havoc on the engine. I understand it will lower compression a tad but wasn't too sure how much it would effect it in the meantime until its all built.

I know the proper way to do it is decomp plate, I was just trying to save wasting a headgasket and having to buy a second set of headbolts!

[smokeandpoke]

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

dry build engine to see
refit head with old gasket --just nip it down +time up cams
having already put a lump of clay ontop of a piston --turn engine over 2 turns by hand with no plugs in it -remove head and see how much clearnace you have --by thickness of clay

I have since spoken to the engineer and he said it was literally just a clean up.
He said running a standard gasket will give it a bit of a tweak - as the C/R will be a touch lower, but he doesn't specialise in citroens so I don't think he understands the different clearances between the engines.

Clay idea seems a very safe and sensible way to check, I shall bear that in mind! Either way, it will need a new gasket as I understand I should use the corresponding gasket for that particular head - in my case I should use a jp4 head.

I think I will have to check the clearance with standard gasket as you have stated - I just wondered what people used as the norm when completing this conversion. I should have thought a +0.2 gasket should suffice (without checking it)



While I've got you - are you in agreement that running double gaskets to decomp the engine (as you would for a budget turbo build) whilst running N/A will upset the engine?

[axsaxoman]

7psi max and correct ecu mods --no need to lower comp ratio
modern OEM turbo cars run 10/1 comp ratio and 1bar of boost
old wrc cars ran 3 bar of boost +10/1 comp --so its all in the ecu +turbo control

[smokeandpoke]

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

7psi max and correct ecu mods --no need to lower comp ratio
modern OEM turbo cars run 10/1 comp ratio and 1bar of boost
old wrc cars ran 3 bar of boost +10/1 comp --so its all in the ecu +turbo control

Will be getting hold of a standalone ECU as I believe the 5th injector method to be a bit grimy and totally 90's!!

I was not aware the standard engine would take boost at standard compression, I would be lowering merely as a precaution?

[MartinObviously]

Originally Posted by smokeandpoke

Will be getting hold of a standalone ECU as I believe the 5th injector method to be a bit grimy and totally 90's!!

I was not aware the standard engine would take boost at standard compression, I would be lowering merely as a precaution?

The standard ECU can be mapped to work with boost. just need a map which reads postive pressure.

I've seen it! someone did it with their red C2


compression isn't a huge factor, fuel type, quantity, air temp and ignition timing I think affect how much boost you can use more - things which affect knock. I'll get corrected no doubt, I'm pretty clueless. I'm a diesel man at heart and i upped my compression to 25:1... with boost

[smokeandpoke]

Originally Posted by MartinObviously

The standard ECU can be mapped to work with boost. just need a map which reads postive pressure.

I've seen it! someone did it with their red C2


compression isn't a huge factor, fuel type, quantity, air temp and ignition timing I think affect how much boost you can use more - things which affect knock. I'll get corrected no doubt, I'm pretty clueless. I'm a diesel man at heart and i upped my compression to 25:1... with boost

Really? I'm sure someone could do it, but for the time and effort (and effectiveness) I would probably still go standalone unless it is considerably cheaper than a standalone.

25:1 on a saxo? wow!
That's nothing for a diesel, but I am surprised your saxo didn't turn itself inside out hahaha!!

[gti180craig]

Mine is running standard ecu with a 2 bar map sensor Wayne from chipwizards Is the man to see

[MartinObviously]

Originally Posted by gti180craig

Mine is running standard ecu with a 2 bar map sensor Wayne from chipwizards Is the man to see

Yes!

Originally Posted by smokeandpoke

Really? I'm sure someone could do it, but for the time and effort (and effectiveness) I would probably still go standalone unless it is considerably cheaper than a standalone.

25:1 on a saxo? wow!
That's nothing for a diesel, but I am surprised your saxo didn't turn itself inside out hahaha!!

Of course having your standard ECU mapped to accept boost is WAY cheaper. it'll cost you a sensor, some injectors and a day on dyno.

Yes 23:1 standard 1.5D, it's indirect injection

[smokeandpoke]

Originally Posted by MartinObviously

Yes!



Of course having your standard ECU mapped to accept boost is WAY cheaper. it'll cost you a sensor, some injectors and a day on dyno.

Yes 23:1 standard 1.5D, it's indirect injection

Oh sorry I assumed petrol!

I didn't think there were many people that could do it, if you know of anyone in the south east get them to get in touch!!

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[smokeandpoke]

Originally Posted by gti180craig

Mine is running standard ecu with a 2 bar map sensor Wayne from chipwizards Is the man to see

Sorry Craig didn't see this mate.
Where abouts is wayne based?

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[gti180craig]

Originally Posted by smokeandpoke

Sorry Craig didn't see this mate.
Where abouts is wayne based?

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Near Wigan mate bit Of a drive for u but worth it

[AdamH]

207 map sensor by any chance craig?

[gti180craig]

Originally Posted by AdamH

207 map sensor by any chance craig?

correct mate also found on a Mini Cooper s and ds3

[smokeandpoke]

Originally Posted by gti180craig

correct mate also found on a Mini Cooper s and ds3

Nice one mate, solid starting point. I assume it's off the thp one?

Adam my fountain of knowledge as usual!!!!

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[AdamH]

Originally Posted by smokeandpoke

Adam my fountain of knowledge as usual!!!!

"blushes"

Yea 1.6 THP, doesn't matter which BHP version


PSA 207GTI 1.6 THP
Citroen/Peugeot = Part Number = 1992 R6
BMW/Mini = Part Number = 62 7 535 069 / 13627535069

[smokeandpoke]

Originally Posted by AdamH

"blushes"

Yea 1.6 THP, doesn't matter which BHP version

Haha you tart!!!
Awesome. I may look into that if I can find someone down this end of the country, gave him a Google and it's a good 4 and a bit hours each way.


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