Jacks Cossack Grey S2 Turbo - Page 2 - Saxperience

AzzAW93 · 26th December 2012, 00:45

starting to look like your thread on the OC

dannygti · 26th December 2012, 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

Agreed. But they don't have the same reliability concerns

Turbo f1 cars running mega boost etc - I do know what you mean

I never mentioned anything about reliability? Nor did I mention about pushing the turbo to it's limits.

I'll stop now, this intersting and possible informative debate is starting to look like 106 owners apparently.

Ross^p · 26th December 2012, 00:52

Except here it's all constructive

I'd like to think Danny's and my discussion is (in a round about way) useful patter for the OP. his (the op's) own choice is dictated by what he reads and hears. Other peoples experiences obviously affect what they write. Danny argues his point here well and I have to concede I was quick to jump on the gt28s case. Like I said earlier though, I've run two of these on my own car now and REALLY like them

Perhaps a better angle to approach from would be not to worry about the peak power figure that always gets focused on but the overall cars performance. Whatever "figure" is arrived at, it will be quick!

Edit to add : the reliability you didn't mention is a concern for "us" (well, it sure is for me!) - and it's not for wrc or f1 running big boost. So whilst you are totally right - more boost = more performance, I would argue that total performance benefit is rather negated by being broken down in a layby after enjoying a tussle with a skyline or whatever

AzzAW93 · 26th December 2012, 00:53

was sarcasm

im enjoying the read being i know sweet FA about turbos

dannygti · 26th December 2012, 01:08

I'm tired so I'll keep it simple..
Who do you think focus's more on reliability? A private build that's done to a budget, that will see max throttle for a very small amount of it's life OR a touring car team where if something fails it ruins seasons, where engines spend hours on max throttle at max rpm?

Reliabilty from high end product stems down from Motorsport, and only through Motorsport they are so reliable today. How else would we find the boundaries of these parts?

I'll concede, there is a big budget difference but that's not the point I'm making.
There's no absolute right or wrong answer, just personal opinion.

But one things for sure, with that turbo setup that car will be FAST

Jack-Cooley · 26th December 2012, 12:01

Right....

My head just got more information than it can control.

so i can keep my 28rs and just see how it produces power, if its not enough we can easily swap it out.

this turbo was bought off a lad on ccuk he bought the turbo over in the states and never used it once. still boxed up from the factory i paid £550

which is the reason i have it. rickyp reccomended it so i couldnt see why it wouldnt work well enough. im not chasing figures either, it will be boosted. and it will be fast. thats all i want ideally.

figure chasing will start when it comes off the road and i have a daily.

"What are you doing in terms of Headwork, cams, inlet, boost pipe size, and what exhaust are you going to run/who's it made by?"

No headwork will be done, standard cams along with standard inlet, unsure on the boost pipe size i think it was 2.5" or a little more, all the hardpipes, radiator and intercooler will be done out of shop. exhaust is being made at the same place. its a custom one ricky has had designed to run with his downpipe and manifold. which i may add, is very sexy

and the downpipe

and the tip

and assembled

unsure on 2.5 or 3" tip on the exhaust? im told a lot about needing a 3" then people say 2.5 will be fine? i dunno haha

also as for cams i dont know weather to run some turbo cams from catcam at an extra £300-400 ish or just stick with standard ones?

what pistons and rods would ya'll reccomend? personally i think catacm rods and rodbolts with wossner pistons?

and finally, a big argument point for you all here.

it will be mapped on the standard ecu...

jones91 · 26th December 2012, 12:15

Very impressive pics there mate

if your not chasing figures then you will be fine on standard cams and inlet, I'd of thought that inlet and exhaust ports will need opening up to help stop restricting it

2.5" is plenty big enough for the boost pipes, 2.25" would be more than enough tbh

A 2.5" exhaust system and tip will be enough to flow over 300bhp, anything over 350ish and you will need bigger

I'd use the wiesco pistons and catcam rods you mentioned to me when pm'ing me about the wideband

As for the ecu, I don't know too much about how well the standard ecu can cope with keeping the air/fuel ratio even when running boost, but personally I'd defo want to be using something decent e.g omex 600, Kms etc on an expensive build like this, is this a choice to keep costs down or did you use the standard ecu as you think it will cope with boost as well as a standalone?

blackie_2k5 · 26th December 2012, 12:19

Ricky uses Wayne to map the oe ecu

Limits you to who you can map the car.. And price fixes you on how much it costs to tweak it.. So it'll cost you more in the long run

Also.. If it takes them as long to get it back as it did for crabzy.. I hope you're not in a rush is all I can say

Ross^p · 26th December 2012, 12:26

Looks good!

2.5" is quite large for the boost pipes - ideally you want them as small as you can get away with (but the larger pipes arguably look better!)

For the exhaust size - as above. 2.5" system is fine for the kind of power you're aiming for - 300-350. Over that and you'll want 3". I don't remember the back pressure on my 2.5" system when ran high power on it, but it was much higher than I wanted - something like 9-10psi iirc. A lot.

Standard cams good for a boosted setup tbh, and help keep low down off boost drivability. Stick with em for now

Have a rethink about using the standard (plastic) inlet. I've seen two split and they dont flow very well at higher boost. A better suggestion would be the c2 metal inlet IMO.

I cant comment on Using the standard ecu for mapping boost as ive never seen it done (although i vaguely remember wayne talking about doing it earlier in the year).

Looks like a great build - gonna have a lot of fun for sure!

Jack-Cooley · 26th December 2012, 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by jones91

Very impressive pics there mate

if your not chasing figures then you will be fine on standard cams and inlet, I'd of thought that inlet and exhaust ports will need opening up to help stop restricting it

2.5" is plenty big enough for the boost pipes, 2.25" would be more than enough tbh

A 2.5" exhaust system and tip will be enough to flow over 300bhp, anything over 350ish and you will need bigger

I'd use the wiesco pistons and catcam rods you mentioned to me when pm'ing me about the wideband

As for the ecu, I don't know too much about how well the standard ecu can cope with keeping the air/fuel ratio even when running boost, but personally I'd defo want to be using something decent e.g omex 600, Kms etc on an expensive build like this, is this a choice to keep costs down or did you use the standard ecu as you think it will cope with boost as well as a standalone?

a bit of both really, mostly due to the dta i would be using is £540 plus a loom so another £250-300. we'll see how it goes, as i said she'll be coming off the road anyway so i can always have the ecu swapped for the dta and re-mapped

glad to hear the 2.5 is good for the exhaust. i hate 3" tips

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

Ricky uses Wayne to map the oe ecu

Limits you to who you can map the car.. And price fixes you on how much it costs to tweak it.. So it'll cost you more in the long run

Also.. If it takes them as long to get it back as it did for crabzy.. I hope you're not in a rush is all I can say

ricky uses wayne because wayne is easily the best in the country remapping on the oe ecu.

and would you not want the best for the control unit on the car? personally i wouldnt want some kid who things he can map playing around with my ecu. the same way you wouldnt let me build your engine for you... i'd break it

as for the crabzy situ his was the first ever UK turbo 106/vt mapped on the standard ecu so they clearly were going to come across problems, he is very good at what he does, he says he can do it for any kind of power. people keep telling me not to but i cant see why i shouldnt really? does anyone have a valid excuse or explanation for it?

someone convince me i need the dta...(i really just need a reason to spend more money... i change my mind day in day out so just ignore me when i get annoying hahah)

as for pistons and rods, why wiesco pistons? whats wrong with the wossner ones?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

Looks good!

2.5" is quite large for the boost pipes - ideally you want them as small as you can get away with (but the larger pipes arguably look better!)

For the exhaust size - as above. 2.5" system is fine for the kind of power you're aiming for - 300-350. Over that and you'll want 3". I don't remember the back pressure on my 2.5" system when ran high power on it, but it was much higher than I wanted - something like 9-10psi iirc. A lot.

Standard cams good for a boosted setup tbh, and help keep low down off boost drivability. Stick with em for now

Have a rethink about using the standard (plastic) inlet. I've seen two split and they dont flow very well at higher boost. A better suggestion would be the c2 metal inlet IMO.

I cant comment on Using the standard ecu for mapping boost as ive never seen it done (although i vaguely remember wayne talking about doing it earlier in the year).

Looks like a great build - gonna have a lot of fun for sure!

righty so i need small boost pipes... i think im going to have to go with the atspeed radiator and intercooler setup because i know its a working setup.

ross know anywhere else that does it for less than a friggin grand? seems expensive for a cooler rad and header tank tbh..

as for the cams and inlet thank god someones said something good about the standard cams, i was told if i wanted to run a 743 or something on the inlet cam and use a standard exhaust one? but ill just run the standard on both to keep it normal. and the c2 inlet is a good call. ill go check out prices. and i was very tempted to get some head work done but its like £... expensive..

anyone think i should get the them ported a bit and polished up? ricky said it should be fine but i dunno?

blackie_2k5 · 26th December 2012, 12:35

Wayne is very good at mapping there's no denying that, but there are many good mappers, by limiting yourself to 1 mapper, your agreeing that you will only ever use Wayne in the future, and can't shop around for other mappers.. And if Wayne is too busy to for you in then you're simply going to have to wait

Crabzys may have been the first one done but being told two weeks and taking nearly 2 months is a little more then a few probs? I've seen full restorations done in less time lol

It's up to you who you use really, but I'd spending all that money I certainly wouldn't be leaving myself locked to using 1 person

Jack-Cooley · 26th December 2012, 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

Wayne is very good at mapping there's no denying that, but there are many good mappers, by limiting yourself to 1 mapper, your agreeing that you will only ever use Wayne in the future, and can't shop around for other mappers.. And if Wayne is too busy to for you in then you're simply going to have to wait

Crabzys may have been the first one done but being told two weeks and taking nearly 2 months is a little more then a few probs? I've seen full restorations done in less time lol

It's up to you who you use really, but I'd spending all that money I certainly wouldn't be leaving myself locked to using 1 person

it took 2 months? oh fuck i didnt think it was that long haha.

full restoration you say? ricky and his mrs did a full quicky restoration plus engine swap and rebuild in 7 days before fcs11 haha, including a wedding on the same weekend

if he's good he's good, and ill wait for him to have time free. after shes off the road i wont be in a rush for anything anyway will i

en-route pub. chat soons

Ross^p · 26th December 2012, 12:57

I made 300hp or so on standard cams (and standard inlet). It drives like a standard gti off boost so is nice

John (gmc) does a nice rad and intercooler setup and its not as expensive as the pro-alloy setup - only downside is he'll spend an hour on the phone convincing you turbos are stupid and you want a ladycharger

(I love John a lot so I'm only joshing!)

Oh and just to throw it out there - my 300hp setup was with a £80 eBay intercooler and diesel 106 radiator. About as cheap as you can get

you don't HAVE to go all alloy.

welshpug · 26th December 2012, 13:19

you can get a PNP S40 from MEF MOtorsport, use stock loom, if your ecu is MM 1ap then that can't do boost, that's why the SuperHigh Boost 306's run DTA.

Jack-Cooley · 26th December 2012, 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by welshpug

you can get a PNP S40 from MEF MOtorsport, use stock loom, if your ecu is MM 1ap then that can't do boost, that's why the SuperHigh Boost 306's run DTA.

What's a MM 1ap?

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

welshpug · 26th December 2012, 13:48

an ecu :lol:

Jack-Cooley · 26th December 2012, 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by welshpug

an ecu :lol:

A stock ecu?

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

blackie_2k5 · 26th December 2012, 14:05

It's the code on the ecu, they're not all the same matey

Ross^p · 26th December 2012, 14:19

As above, it's the stock ecu's model number.

A better option is a predator ecu from andy (Luther on here). Cheap, mappable by anywhere, and designed for exactly this. He even has base maps he can send you so you can do the setup at home before he (or someone else) maps it.

Plug and play too

Bedford126 · 26th December 2012, 14:26

Personally I know fuck all about boost. But if I was spending that much on a turbo set up and engine I would be spending on a decent ecu with better features.