Turbo, Carbs, Throttle Bodies, Boost???

[toxic]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Depends on the rollers lol...

It made 186 a month ago on hard rollers, higher on other rollers... Either way it's a bit different to standard.

But as said previously probably spec wise has alot of room for improvements if I can be arsed.

what was your set up on your car

[Ryanp]

Basic spec info is..


Qep bv head + catcam 803s (solid litters etc..)

Forged bottom end although the pistons are not massively oversized to over 80mm iirc.

Pugsport direct to head bodies
Pugsport maxi/cup whatever you want to call it 3 piece 4-2-1 manifold
2.5 ex bore custom exhaust..
Emerald management

[dannygti]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Fair enough thought he had bike bodies on there now you see. Again though they can be got cheap and as sandy is showing can make some good power on various engines.

It's a shame the kms ones are no more, they were pretty good value at the time.

Sandy is king of na, the blogs he makes are brilliant. If I was to want a great n/a engine he would be my man

[Ryanp]

Originally Posted by dannygti

Sandy is king of na, the blogs he makes are brilliant. If I was to want a great n/a engine he would be my man

Been good to see him using this forum tbh, nice to see someone willing to help (and fully understand some info he keeps to his chest when its for say a customers race engine).

I may be trying to discuss a few ideas with him on optimising my set up, as feel for what it is there are a few areas that could improve the whole thing massively.

[toxic]

Originally Posted by dannygti

Sandy is king of na, the blogs he makes are brilliant. If I was to want a great n/a engine he would be my man

what is n/a lol

[Darkslider]

Naturally aspirated, i.e not forced induction. Forced induction is boost either via turbo/supercharger or w/ever.

[KamRacing]

I dont like these debates because I'm rather fond of both. A well setup tb conversion with some proper thought to the components and the design significantly improves over the standard engine. Personally I love the throttle response, the relationship between my foot and the throttle is (almost) instant. It also suits the way I like to drive on track and on the road. Sandy makes some great engines making good power all through the rev range but he thinks about the engine as a whole rather than bolting on 10 bits that should give power.
Flip the coin and I'm rather fond of the torque delivery of a well setup boosted application. For sheer acceleration you cannot beat it. Just watching cars like Atspeeds in action and you just laugh as it hurtles past everything.
I think the main issue I have is I love driving through corners and maximising entry and exit. Maybe too much money gets spent on engines or its just an over eager driver but the videos I see of turbo 106's and saxos they struggle for tyre traction on the exit and as they accelerate through the gears. Certainly a different technique is required but I fear often theres an obsession with power figures rather than making a car use all its components to its best. Does a supercharger help this? I dont know but I guess the same mistakes can be made whatever.
I read ross and danny build threads with great interest as they think about each component they fit and analyse the effect afterwards. Not many would fit a smaller turbo again after getting big power..

[blackie_2k5]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Been good to see him using this forum tbh, nice to see someone willing to help (and fully understand some info he keeps to his chest when its for say a customers race engine).

I may be trying to discuss a few ideas with him on optimising my set up, as feel for what it is there are a few areas that could improve the whole thing massively.

cant aggree more with the above, ive pm'd sandy a few times with issues/concerns i may have had, and hes always gotten back to me in pretty good time to help/try point me in the direction i need to be heading

not many ppl....especially as busy as he is, will do that for complete strangers, hes even had input into my progress thread when i had issues without even asking

as for the debate

same as always, it depends what you want, as said, 9/10 ppl is most power for least money, for the price bodies just cant yield the power a charger can, not without spending more....

i prefer being pinned in my seat, with a massive burst of acceleration, whilst struggling to keep the car in a straight line, as the rear end squats and the front end becomes weightless

so tbh i was always in need of a turbo

[RDKells]

Originally Posted by hard_corejoeboy

Power is nothing without control

Best bang for buck?

Buying a shit load of fireworks and attaching them to the car..or treading on an IED

Lmao.

But, sorry to hijack, I know what a cam is in simple terms, asin a circle with a bit sticking out used to push things up and down, but how do they increase power in an engine/where do they go/ etc?


(Sorry log1c)

[RDKells]

Originally Posted by toxic

what is n/a lol

Naturally Aspirated ie not using forced induction (turbo) ((<I think))

TY GRAN TURISMO!

[Ryanp]

Originally Posted by RDKells

Lmao.

But, sorry to hijack, I know what a cam is in simple terms, asin a circle with a bit sticking out used to push things up and down, but how do they increase power in an engine/where do they go/ etc?


(Sorry log1c)

Basically a 'wilder' cam has more lift and duration.

In other words the valve ends up being pushed open further for longer - more air getting into the cylinder and thus more power (when mixed with the fuel correctly)..


Obviously theres a fair bit more to it but thats the basic idea.

[blackie_2k5]

Originally Posted by RDKells

Lmao.

But, sorry to hijack, I know what a cam is in simple terms, asin a circle with a bit sticking out used to push things up and down, but how do they increase power in an engine/where do they go/ etc?


(Sorry log1c)

camshafts are bits of metal with "lobes" on them, these are the actual cams

they control the valves, inlet and exhaust, and how how high(this is know as lift) and for how long (known as duration) the valves open, a normal engine will have certain profile on the lobes of the cams, this dictates the lift and duration,

it in turn lets so much air/fuel mixture into the combustion chamber, it fires and produces a certain amount of power... normal engines run a safe profile giving a good spread of power across the range etc, and also a good idle.

by changing the profile you can run "wilder" cams which may have a higher lift/longer duration, which lets MORE air/fuel mixture in then normal cams

more mixture means bigger bang...which means more power, when doing this you normally change the power band.. e.g. higher up rev range etc, this would make less economical/more awkward driving in a standard car..hence manuacturers not doing this first off

with certain profiles, the standard inlet will not let in enough air to either run the car and allow it to idle, or use the power properly, this would make an undriveable car with pretty poor power id have thought

thats where you TB's come in, one for each cylinder, this allows the correct amount of air for a good idle, and maximising the power the cams can give you...

BUT with wilder cams etc the power band will still shift and make for a more awkward "road car" but if doing this... its normally not an issue to the owner

AND some cam profiles require alot more supporting work the head/valve train to be able to run correctly/safely

hope that helps

[blackie_2k5]

damn ryan!... i start writting and go for a piss...and BOOM!

[Ryanp]

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

damn ryan!... i start writting and go for a piss...and BOOM!

and i said it in far less text haha!!

(but less detail).

[RDKells]

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

camshafts are bits of metal with "lobes" on them, these are the actual cams

they control the valves, inlet and exhaust, and how how high(this is know as lift) and for how long (known as duration) the valves open, a normal engine will have certain profile on the lobes of the cams, this dictates the lift and duration,

it in turn lets so much air/fuel mixture into the combustion chamber, it fires and produces a certain amount of power... normal engines run a safe profile giving a good spread of power across the range etc, and also a good idle.

by changing the profile you can run "wilder" cams which may have a higher lift/longer duration, which lets MORE air/fuel mixture in then normal cams

more mixture means bigger banger...which means more power, when doing this you normally change the power band.. e.g. higher up rev range etc, this would make less economical/more awkward driving in a standard car..hence manuacturers not doing this first off

with certain profiles, the standard inlet will not let in enough air to either run the car and allow it to idle, or use the power properly, this would make an undriveable car with pretty poor power id have thought

thats where you TB's come in, one for each cylinder, this allows the correct amount of air for a good idle, and maximising the power the cams can give you...

BUT with wilder cams etc the power band will still shift and make for a more awkward "road car" but if doing this... its normally not an issue to the owner

AND some cam profiles require alot more supporting work the head/valve train to be able to run correctly/safely

hope that helps

Wow, I get it, thanks man. So cams + throttle body = ty for some N/A?

[tichy]

I've seen a thread on here with some one having Tb's and turbo what's that sort of setup get you in terms of power and the way it delivers the power

[blackie_2k5]

Originally Posted by tichy

I've seen a thread on here with some one having Tb's and turbo what's that sort of setup get you in terms of power and the way it delivers the power

its not really worth it, you could get the same amount of power with a charger through a single larger inlet then you could with bodies,

ive not read much into it, but its cost a hell of a lot more then normal bodies or turbo as you have to have a sealed inlet made for the bodies to blast the boost into

and from what ive read.....although alot seem to have gotten round this apparantley?....its meant to be alot harder to map and give good idle(due to the TPS), aswell as an alleged snappy throttle

i dont know how much truth there is to the last bit as thats just what ive read..

[Ryanp]

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

its not really worth it, you could get the same amount of power with a charger through a single larger inlet then you could with bodies,

ive not read much into it, but its cost a hell of a lot more then normal bodies or turbo as you have to have a sealed inlet made for the bodies to blast the boost into

and from what ive read.....although alot seem to have gotten round this apparantley?....its meant to be alot harder to map and give good idle(due to the TPS), aswell as an alleged snappy throttle

i dont know how much truth there is to the last bit as thats just what ive read..

The problem people have had with the set up has been down to wrong TB choice and poor plenum design.

Sybez's was crazy when it worked, there are a few cars on the market that run the set up from stock, some of the ford boys seem to be keen on doing it. I know Sy's apparently had a snappy throttle from some posts I read which I believe was put down to the size of the butterfly + supercharger.

JP4 inlet on the TU5 does seem to respond very well though and shouldnt blow to bits being metal..

[tichy]

Yh I heard they were harder to map just thought is ask lol and roughly how much did your boost cost you to set up I'm looking at doing something like this sometime just not got to save the pennys first just want like a guide price yours is about the ideal power for what im after

[blackie_2k5]

ai, i think it was sybez's i must have been reading about?

blocks85 is running turbo/bodies on his car with no issues(that ive seen), as said ive not really read much into it so i dont know, it seems a total waste of money and more of a whore spec then anything else IMO

why spend all the money to get minimal to zero benefit when you can get the same power/driveability without?

if this isnt the case someone please fill me in as id actually be quite interested to know what youd gain if anything..... but even if you do gain anything its still not gonna be worth the spends or itd be alot more widely known by now

but as always.. each to their own i suppose