Advice on turbo setups :) - Page 11 - Saxperience

dannygti · 8th February 2012, 18:00

And you can sell it on when it comes to updgrade to forged pistons..

It's obvious there are plus points and minus points for each method. Just got to choose what suits you.

e8_pqck · 8th February 2012, 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

I can safely say i have detroyed probably every make of piston ever made for a saxo at some point and the differences bewtween them is not that much to make the difference to reliability when fitted with correctly gapped rings.

lots of happy customers then...

blackie_2k5 · 8th February 2012, 18:22

As Danny pointed out the decomp is only £100 and is more cost effective for future uses

All about re usable resources these days

Pity all head gaskets aren't the same

Greedo · 8th February 2012, 21:16

What spark plugs and oil would people run with a turbo setup, if different from the normal?

axsaxoman · 9th February 2012, 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by e8_pqck

lots of happy customers then...

I am referring to my own develoment engines where i push thngs to the limit + beyond , not customers cars .
that is the way you find the limits of what you can and cannot do with an engine .
that how you become a leader and not a follower
you cannot make omelets with breaking eggs
,

axsaxoman · 9th February 2012, 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

As Danny pointed out the decomp is only £100 and is more cost effective for future uses

All about re usable resources these days

Pity all head gaskets aren't the same

If you are thinking from the outset that you will be changing blown h/gaskets or stripping to replace other destroyed internals and that is reason for using a decomp ,then maybe there are some basic flaws in the spec to start with ??
I have NEVER had a h/gasket failure on any boosted or N/A tu engine EVER that i have built.
engines overheated + destroyed in all manner of ways ,but none that were primarly due to h/gasket failure
so why would I consider spending lots more money to fix something that is not broken and not a problem

axsaxoman · 9th February 2012, 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

And you can sell it on when it comes to updgrade to forged pistons..

It's obvious there are plus points and minus points for each method. Just got to choose what suits you.

fitting a thicker h/gasket or decomp late is never the real solution as ideally you want as thin a gasket as possible to give better heat transfer from head to block ,thats why the jp4 has deeper combustion chambers and a thinner h/gasket --cos citroen were aware of the h/gaskets blowing on the original tj4 engine ,they first changed to an MLS gasket ,but when they did a redesign they still used MLS but made it thinner , better heat transfer
check out all modern design engine they all use very thin gaskets

Jungle · 9th February 2012, 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

I am referring to my own develoment engines where i push thngs to the limit + beyond , not customers cars .
that is the way you find the limits of what you can and cannot do with an engine .
that how you become a leader and not a follower
you cannot make omelets with breaking eggs
,

You are talking alot of sense in your last few posts, shame some people aren't listening.

blackie_2k5 · 9th February 2012, 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

If you are thinking from the outset that you will be changing blown h/gaskets or stripping to replace other destroyed internals and that is reason for using a decomp ,then maybe there are some basic flaws in the spec to start with ??
I have NEVER had a h/gasket failure on any boosted or N/A tu engine EVER that i have built.
engines overheated + destroyed in all manner of ways ,but none that were primarly due to h/gasket failure
so why would I consider spending lots more money to fix something that is not broken and not a problem

No John, why would i be thinking that? but ppl do get issues with engines even built by specialists!!

And more the point of re use.... Ppl change specs and parts as time goes by, so head off jobs are not uncommon even with feww miles on the egine

106TURBO · 9th February 2012, 11:30

http://www.saxosportsclub.com/Forums...5/start=0.html

Ok John if I made a table and you came along and said yeah I like your table, but I am going to change the legs on it cause I don't think they work correctly for big dinners, even although theyr has been numerous amount of people use the same table for big parties and dinners, I would take that as slating it, but maybe from your view you wouldn't be. Maybe I just read the post wrong as I was reading your posts in above thread from where I have seen many people run wossner pistons without any problems, only friend who has had a problem was with an omega funnily enough..

I think the main reason for failure isn't soo much the piston but the mapper/engine builder.

blackie_2k5 · 9th February 2012, 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

fitting a thicker h/gasket or decomp late is never the real solution as ideally you want as thin a gasket as possible to give better heat transfer from head to block ,thats why the jp4 has deeper combustion chambers and a thinner h/gasket --cos citroen were aware of the h/gaskets blowing on the original tj4 engine ,they first changed to an MLS gasket ,but when they did a redesign they still used MLS but made it thinner , better heat transfer
check out all modern design engine they all use very thin gaskets

you say use double gaskets rather then decomp..

but talk about heat transfer being poor through thicker head gaskets?, so why not use a thin mls and aluminium decomp..which will work as an extension to the combustions chambers to get your desired CR...and should transfer heat alot better then 2 large head gaskets

i understand your saying dont use that route to begin with... pistons ideally yes are then best route, but not everyone can/wants to budget for that

can you elaborate on this, as by your own logic your contradicting your own posts?

Greedo · 9th February 2012, 14:04

Hang on, if you run forged pistons you don't need to use a de-comp plate or x2 head gaskets?

new to the turbo route, so apologies for the stupid question!

blackie_2k5 · 9th February 2012, 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedo

Hang on, if you run forged pistons you don't need to use a de-comp plate or x2 head gaskets?

new to the turbo route, so apologies for the stupid question!

no.. the reason ppl do this is to lower them compression ratio, but forged pistons for boost will have recesses in the crown to lower the compression

some ppl do run high comp forged pistons and still use a decomp to get the right CR...but thats not often and only if they NEED pistons quick or if they find a high comp set cheap..

or if they built a high comp engine for bodies etc..then decide to go turbo/supercharger later

Greedo · 9th February 2012, 16:36

Great, thanks for clearing that up! Totally understand you can use low-comp pistons which then negate the need for a de-comp plate!

What engine oil and spark plugs (and what gap?) would guys use in a turbo set up? Or just the normal ones?

dannygti · 9th February 2012, 16:58

I'd gap the plugs to 0.6mm

ThrushMotorsport · 13th June 2012, 15:21

What's the clearance with the cituning manifold? I've got a garret t25 (5 bolt outlet exit) - it came off a saab from what I've found out.. Its an garret .48 a/R (if I mind correcly it says m40 on casing is its model)

Would it go in easily enough or would it be obstructed? As herd a few people complaining of fitment issues, this turbo is bigger than a gt17, but wouldn't think by a big difference

Ross^p · 13th June 2012, 16:04

saab (t25 model) turbo is generally a garrett TB2569. I can't find any information about it's dimensions, although I can be confident it's smaller than (for example) a GT2554 I think.

This gives you the physical dimensions of the GT2554, so if you've room for this, I'd say you've room for your a TB unit:
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...1171_3_new.pdf

Only way to tell would be to measure it of course - and then modify to suit. What is the usual issue with the cituning manifold? Turbo too close to the block? Can this be resolved by rotating the CHRA?

blackie_2k5 · 13th June 2012, 16:29

What downpipe are you running? 5 bolt exhaust flange won't fit a cituning downpipe

ThrushMotorsport · 13th June 2012, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

What downpipe are you running? 5 bolt exhaust flange won't fit a cituning downpipe

I will be using the cituning downpipe, but ill be having my fabricator chop it and weld on a new peice, i.e from a t25 downpipe flange (the 2 port one, for my internal wastegate, merging into the one pipe, then back onto the downpipe.

Ill go get the turbo, and write it down what it is, and try find out more about it.

ThrushMotorsport · 13th June 2012, 16:36

sorry its an M27 turbo, on the housing aswell next to that, it has a circle of bumps around the number "94" im unsure what that is to say, but the inlet if i mind correctly is 60mm, and outlet is 52mm i think cant remember correct dimentions.

I think 94 is trim, is that right?