406 2litre turbo conversion - Page 5 - Saxperience

Tannerman · 2nd December 2011, 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf_gsxr

It does have a nice wiggle to it don't it... Annyywayyy. It's a stupid idea. Big heavy underpowered engine in a small lightwait fwd car is awful. No more poverty than a cammed s but 20 times the work twice the weight and awful handling. Even if you got it all to fit that would be a few grand. Then tuning the turd to what you think it will make another few grand then another few thrown at the suspension to that I'd doesn't handle like a canal barge. Or spend 2k and have a turbo'd s

I haven't found newer that will charge a TU for £2000.my closest quote was £5000 and that was before a map

Ryan^p · 2nd December 2011, 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tannerman

I haven't found newer that will charge a TU for £2000.my closest quote was £5000 and that was before a map

If you feel you have the mechanical skills to fit a completely new unit then DIY turbo you could do easily for example.

DIY turboing is alot cheaper than charging.

Danny has built all of his set up and hasnt had the thousands and thousands thrown at it like ross's for example. Ross has one of the highest specs around but it doesnt mean every car needs to also do the same.

A company like pug perfomance to turbo a car will cost a load of money, just like when they were doing GTI-6 conversions.

Tannerman · 2nd December 2011, 19:45

I can get it fitted no problem it's the setting up I,e mapping and compression.

NismoSteve · 2nd December 2011, 19:46

Okay, I've had a 406 executive turbo for four years, fully loaded with all the toys and estate with 7 seat conversion to boot. It weighed 1650kg and still went rather well.
It may be only 150bhp but has the same torque as a 2.5 v6 mondeo at 178lbft

There seems to be very little knowledge of this engine and even less people that actually have any experience of it.
It is a good engine for the money, you can pick up an sri or executive for around 500 quid and if your handy with a welder it can be fitted in a saxo, someone on pug306.net has put an xud (almost same size) in a 106.
Right now I'm halfway to fitting my 8 valve turbo into my xsara vtr. As for tuning, no need to get custom manifolds for 200bhp, a decent system, decent intercooler (standard one is crap), VAG v6 fpr, 1 bar boost, decent plugs and fuel pump and your away!
My xsara had a TU engine and the 406 box is too big, so use a gti6 flywheel, dturbo clutch, box, modded dturbo shafts and you will be sorted.
You can fit anything in anything if you put your mind to it. Don't let people put you off. As for weight issues as long as you can restore the balance front and rear (add some low down ballast to the rear for example (sounds counter productive but its not) and bobs your uncle.

Tannerman · 2nd December 2011, 19:53

Fucking happy days now that's some good information.thank you mate :-)

NismoSteve · 2nd December 2011, 20:07

No probs, I've been talking to some Dutch guys who run 300brake on standard bottom ends in their 205s.
With good management some bigger injectors, and a manifold from DP engineering which mounts the turbo away from the bulkhead turbo choice is no issue (the standard turbo is one off T25) but you can swap internals over for T28 compressor side for 250bhp easy enough. But that it for the standard exhaust manifold. Then you can put the 2.1 xud crank in and some C20let pistons for getting almost 2.2 and even more torque. Just don't write them off because its 8 valve. They're a good strong motor when treated right.

Tannerman · 2nd December 2011, 20:10

Mate you've squared me away thank you

Tom5190 · 2nd December 2011, 20:28

You got loads of replies telling you its a bad idea and take no notice.

then you get one reply saying its good (which by the way has incorrecct information in it) and your sorted?

Tannerman · 2nd December 2011, 20:36

No but he has explained what he has done and described to me thoroughly what is needed of course I will check what he has said but I thank him because he hasn't just gone "IT'S SHIT""STUPID IDEA""BUGGER OFF" lol cmon mate just because I'm new doesn't mean I'm some dick head.

Also I have thanked the other guys for there input I appreciate it including yours and pu1offs as I phoned them today.just nice when people actually try to help you.these forums can be far to bitchy sometimes but are awesome when people explain things.

I understand that it's probably annoying when you try to explain the same thing over and over but hay if you don't want too then don't post.lol.easy

Cheers anyway guys

nev6 · 2nd December 2011, 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by NismoSteve

Okay, I've had a 406 executive turbo for four years, fully loaded with all the toys and estate with 7 seat conversion to boot. It weighed 1650kg and still went rather well.
It may be only 150bhp but has the same torque as a 2.5 v6 mondeo at 178lbft

There seems to be very little knowledge of this engine and even less people that actually have any experience of it.
It is a good engine for the money, you can pick up an sri or executive for around 500 quid and if your handy with a welder it can be fitted in a saxo, someone on pug306.net has put an xud (almost same size) in a 106.
Right now I'm halfway to fitting my 8 valve turbo into my xsara vtr. As for tuning, no need to get custom manifolds for 200bhp, a decent system, decent intercooler (standard one is crap), VAG v6 fpr, 1 bar boost, decent plugs and fuel pump and your away!
My xsara had a TU engine and the 406 box is too big, so use a gti6 flywheel, dturbo clutch, box, modded dturbo shafts and you will be sorted.
You can fit anything in anything if you put your mind to it. Don't let people put you off. As for weight issues as long as you can restore the balance front and rear (add some low down ballast to the rear for example (sounds counter productive but its not) and bobs your uncle.

xsara also came from the factory with an xu engine though, so dropping the 2.0 8v turbo in is as easy as dropping it in a 306 or 205, saxo will be a whole heap of hassle tho (although it can be done as i've seen mi16 and gti-6 in 106's)

Tannerman · 2nd December 2011, 20:42

Cheers Nev

Ryan^p · 2nd December 2011, 20:46

The issue you have aswell as the space is as said the loom (you are moaning about mapping for boost for example)

and the box set up (ignoring engine mounts)

The saxo runs the MA box and shafts, the XU runs BE. So you need to modify shafts or hubs. There is a new MA box which fits to the bellhousing of a XU but this also requires some modifications due to the clutch mechanism etc.

Its alot lot easyer to do things to 205/405/306 for example because they run BE boxes as standard. (most of them)

Tannerman · 2nd December 2011, 20:50

Do you mind explaining the loom issue a bit further please?

The box is not an issue and nor are the drive shafts.....if that is what you mean??

Ryan^p · 2nd December 2011, 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tannerman

Do you mind explaining the loom issue a bit further please?

The box is not an issue and nor are the drive shafts.....if that is what you mean??

They use different ECU/loom.

Its not a simple unplug the vtr loom and plug in the 406 loom.

The box is an issue for quite a few people as they think its a bolt on job done trick. For example the size of the gti-6 box on the gti-6 conversion into the saxo/106 caused loss of turning circle initially.

Tom5190 · 2nd December 2011, 20:54

TBH the loom would be the one thing i wouldnt worry about if i was doing it myself.

What response did you get off us today by the way? as i dont answer the phone so it wont of been me you spoke to.

I arnt bitching i quite hope you do it to be honest as i havnt seen it just there will be quicker saxos about that have spent less money.

Tannerman · 2nd December 2011, 21:00

Less money???really???I like the sound of that.

I can't remember the guys name but he was mega helpful.

Basically he said you guys just stick to what you no and although back in the day he would have been well up for trying it out, there is a risk because it just hasn't been done before. Mentioned the standard things really...relocation of the turbo, engine mounts and the box...

Tannerman · 2nd December 2011, 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

They use different ECU/loom.

Its not a simple unplug the vtr loom and plug in the 406 loom.

The box is an issue for quite a few people as they think its a bolt on job done trick. For example the size of the gti-6 box on the gti-6 conversion into the saxo/106 caused loss of turning circle initially.

Tbh I no nothing about the box issue but the guy that will be fitting and completing the conversion has assured me that the box and the shafts arent an issue.

Tom5190 · 2nd December 2011, 21:17

Yea alot cheaper, my saxo is 146bhp and it cost me about £20 for the 16v engine, i put it in myself and ive paid about £50 for exhaust mani, centre pipe, rear box & air filter then £300 for some cams and a re-map. and it weighs 832kg.

id be pretty confident in saying it would be quicker in a straight line and round a track than a saxo with that turbo engine in it and mines a very mild spec!

Tannerman · 2nd December 2011, 21:19

Again tho ur in the perfect place to pic up cheap upgrades I however am not that lucky...lol.for instance I want a supersprint system finding a seconhand one tho is proving difficult.lol.

Ryan^p · 2nd December 2011, 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tannerman

Tbh I no nothing about the box issue but the guy that will be fitting and completing the conversion has assured me that the box and the shafts arent an issue.

Theyre integral to the fitment of the engine, if he is aware of the BE issue then he will know how to sort it, else the price escelates.