406 2litre turbo conversion

[nev6]

Originally Posted by NismoSteve

What did I get wrong? I just skirted across the essentials. Wiring is quite easy, there are enough guides on 205 forums. Nobody really uses the gti6 box due to its size and weakness.
My own personal opinion would be to stick with a TU unit in a saxo, but I wasn't giving my opinion just answering the guys question. But if he wants to put the XU engine in let him. As has been said they are better suited to the larger pugs / citroens. But it would be a hoot in a saxo so why not.

i was merely pointing out that although your xsara vtr came with a TU engine the xsara vts came with a XU10j4rs, so fitting the xu10j4te turbo engine is relatively simple whereas a saxo/106 only ever came with TU's so the conversion will be a load more grief (mainly box and shafts as has been said).

the 205 gti's and diesels are also xu's so quite easy to do and there are a fair few out there (i looked at a couple before buying my gti-6) and ropey ones can be had for under a grand

[NismoSteve]

Originally Posted by nev6

i was merely pointing out that although your xsara vtr came with a TU engine the xsara vts came with a XU10j4rs, so fitting the xu10j4te turbo engine is relatively simple whereas a saxo/106 only ever came with TU's so the conversion will be a load more grief (mainly box and shafts as has been said).

the 205 gti's and diesels are also xu's so quite easy to do and there are a fair few out there (i looked at a couple before buying my gti-6) and ropey ones can be had for under a grand

Was looking for a 306 or 205 myself, I had the 406 but the Mrs passed her test which was just the excuse I wanted to chuck the engine into something smaller.
The whole conversion has cost less than £500 up to now inc the xsara. I got the Mrs a saxo but she didn't like it for some reason so she ended up with a 206 and I'm using the saxo while I finish the xsara, but to be quite honest I really like the saxo! It takes me back to my youth and is fun to thrash around.
Before my business went tits up I had got used to big power jap motors. That's how I ended up with the 406 (big family and no money) but things are back on the up and you can't just stop being a petrolhead! So I'm loving light weight and fun handling!
I'm just debating now wheather I should get a saxo VTS or go back to jap?

[Tannerman]

If I had the money I'd go back to JAP but in the current climate there just way too expensive.

[nev6]

depends what you want out of life and what you can afford, if big power is your thing then go jap, but if your into trackdaying and i see your local to cadwell, a well sorted vts will get round there just as fast as some jap stuff with a whole heap more power.

[blackie_2k5]

LOL you only have about 1k to spend on making a quick saxo? so you want to fit a really heavy/large engine that is well known for being shit and hard to fit...for 1k?

if your mate is so handy with a welder then keep the vtr engine and turbo that, will be cheaper, still work and quicker then yout sri engine

[NismoSteve]

I was thinking of using a 2jz, in what is the question. Maybe something old school like a stag lol! Seemed to have lost the thread topic, sorry.

[Tannerman]

Fuckin hell blackie your about a year too late.this debate is over.night night.lol.

[blackie_2k5]

i dont see a locked thread? so its clearly not over...wont be over as quick as the build though..

good luck with your project

[Tannerman]

Cheers mate it's much appreciated...

[LSOfreak]

jesus £1k? (im not late either)
for that tiny amount, you mayaswell just get a 16v saxo engine, throw in some ph3 cams, and remap it. Would see about 150bhp and you would be pretty certain not to run into any problems. I can see you going way past your 1k budget tbh fitting that 406 engine

[Tannerman]

I worked out by the time the conversion takes place(feb time) I will have enough money to do what I want providing it all goes to plan.the only reason I said I had a grand is because that is what I have at the moment, I was basically trying to get over the fact that I do not have £5000+ to turbo the TU. And this conversion works out to be a whole lot cheaper with roughly the same power gains. I do understand the £1000 (inless you no someone that no's someone.lol.) is not alotta money in the modding world like I said I was just trying to get the point over that I'm a cheap skate with a shit paid job.lol

[KamRacing]

Originally Posted by Tannerman

The engines are actually known for holding power quite well.and the whole point in doin a conversion is to get better performance right?and in most cases you do replace standard parts....a gti6 engine u have to replace parts to get that sort of power...same with a vts/vtr or pretty much any engine for that matter.lol.all oem parts have there weakneses when being tuned wether it be the 406 engine or watever you always take a risk.

out the box it makes rubbish power. Its a lot of work to start off with no real gain. I cannot see the standard gearbox ratios being great either. The engine itself is not going to be massively more heavy than the tu 16v but the gearbox is a good 10-15kg heavier.

Originally Posted by NismoSteve

No probs, I've been talking to some Dutch guys who run 300brake on standard bottom ends in their 205s.
With good management some bigger injectors, and a manifold from DP engineering which mounts the turbo away from the bulkhead turbo choice is no issue (the standard turbo is one off T25) but you can swap internals over for T28 compressor side for 250bhp easy enough. But that it for the standard exhaust manifold. Then you can put the 2.1 xud crank in and some C20let pistons for getting almost 2.2 and even more torque. Just don't write them off because its 8 valve. They're a good strong motor when treated right.

Once you start buying expensive manifolds, turbo parts, aftermarket ecu's etc then you have to ask why you start with this low spec engine in the first place. That adds thousands to the cost. I'd rather find a better starting point to make getting the same power easier. Why limit yourself to 8v and a low revving engine. If you are going to buy the these mods then start with them to broaden your options. Theres more interesting engines in the PSA range. How about looking at a hybrid such as the 2.2 petrol bottom end, with something like a gti-6 head, DP turbo manifold and a second hand turbo from another model (raid the VAG boys parts as they fit bigger turbos to their 1.8T)

A gti-6 with cams hits 200bhp out the box so realistically the hassle of this engine is only worth it if you are going for serious power, but it simply does not sell itself as suitable for this task. Heck i'd rather get a VAG 1.8 turbo. Far simpler to modify and just the same complications for fitment.

You could buy a T16 engine; fit that and get 300bhp cheaper than the 8v turbo in the end.

Just because you have not got the money now should not justify being cheap. Save up and do a proper job with a proper engine.

[Tannerman]

I was just searching for vtr turbo kits on this forum and there's guys that have built them with results around the 250 bhp mark and they have only spent £2000.....how is this?is it just finding parts from different sources I.e eBay?insted of buying a whole kit like the ones on dp?.and that £2000 was running aswell?I don't get how it is so cheap

[NismoSteve]

My whole point of putting this engine in the xsara was that I can have 200 brake for next to no money. Can you get a gti6 engine, then cam it and get it set up for 200bhp for less than £500
I agree that serious power from the 8 valve is expensive. But bang for buck its cheap as chips.

[KamRacing]

Originally Posted by NismoSteve

My whole point of putting this engine in the xsara was that I can have 200 brake for next to no money. Can you get a gti6 engine, then cam it and get it set up for 200bhp for less than £500
I agree that serious power from the 8 valve is expensive. But bang for buck its cheap as chips.

It fits straight in the xsara so its a cheap 200bhp - beyond that though....

You will have to spend more with a saxo especially if he has to factor paying someone to do the work...

[NismoSteve]

This is of course is true. I guess getting somone else to do the work doubles any costs.

[wicked-vtr]

After reading through the thread, it seems you are after bang for buck, but feel a turbo kit is massively overpriced. Home brew conversions can be had cheaply enough:

Adapted standard mani £50-100 odd? Cheaper if your mate who was going to fit the engine is handy. If not eBay special mani can be had or £200
Custom downpipe- I couldnt say but around £100?
Predator ecu-£500
Scrappy spec map sensor £10?
Uprated objectors (Megane 225 or something) £200 odd?
Old t25 or something can be had for £50 or so
Ebay intercooler kit and pipe work £150
Dump valve, £50 odd?
Decomp plate £200 ish?

I confess I'm no expert and I'm not entirely sure on that pricing but there are plenty on here that have done it. Look at Blackies car, 218bhp on just a decomp plate and its been fine apart from a cv joint going iirc.

At the end of the day its all about enjoyment, id rather have a blown 1.6 than a ahsmatic old 2.0 inducing massive understeer. Your choice mate but my advice is look around, pm people, it can be done for less than you think.

[Tom5190]

Originally Posted by wicked-vtr

After reading through the thread, it seems you are after bang for buck, but feel a turbo kit is massively overpriced. Home brew conversions can be had cheaply enough:

Adapted standard mani £50-100 odd? Cheaper if your mate who was going to fit the engine is handy. If not eBay special mani can be had or £200
Custom downpipe- I couldnt say but around £100?
Predator ecu-£500
Scrappy spec map sensor £10?
Uprated objectors (Megane 225 or something) £200 odd?
Old t25 or something can be had for £50 or so
Ebay intercooler kit and pipe work £150
Dump valve, £50 odd?
Decomp plate £200 ish?

I confess I'm no expert and I'm not entirely sure on that pricing but there are plenty on here that have done it. Look at Blackies car, 218bhp on just a decomp plate and its been fine apart from a cv joint going iirc.

At the end of the day its all about enjoyment, id rather have a blown 1.6 than a ahsmatic old 2.0 inducing massive understeer. Your choice mate but my advice is look around, pm people, it can be done for less than you think.

Gotta love them megane Objectors haha

Nah this is true really if the money is thing your basing this around then it will do you well to look around at tomse of the home bre turbos on here. personally i wouldnt do it but like i said if money is the main factor then its going to be a good way to go

[Tannerman]

See I would be interested in the above. I would still need aftermarket management tho wouldn't I?I only ask because some guys have left it off of there kit list.and would I need to uprate internals or are they safe upto say 250bhp?same with the standard box what sort of power is that safe upto? Iv pretty much priced up all the stuff on a list elswere on the site...(think it was by Ross???) and I'm getting in and around £1200 (minus management and pistons) does this seem realistic???seems extremely cheap

[wicked-vtr]

The predator on my list is a standalone managment system capable of running boost. It costs around 500 and is available through the datashift section of the forum. Its plug and play on a 16v but csn be made to work on a 8v.

250 will be really pushing it on std internals and box, 180 is considered safe on a double headgasket, but blackie is running 220 on a decomp plate. Iirc 300 is about the max std rods can take with forged pistons, but the box will shit itself.

A limited slip diff would be a good investment but forgies and diffs are moving away from the realms of a poverty spec build.

How much power can a std box take? how long is a piece of string? Id say 200 in a standard ma box would be ok if you drive with simpathy, wheelspin and doghnutting, full throttle starts ect is really what does them in.

Edit: just for your information a diff'd ma box should be good for 250-280 iirc but if your goimg mental-300+ bhp a be box conversion is on the cards. But then youve come full circle and have the same issues as you do when fitting the 2.0. A kit is available but is around £1000 not including the box


Forgort to add youll need a paddle clutch on that list too