Best race battery - Page 2 - Saxperience

jpsaxo · 2nd January 2013, 11:54

+ even more cranking power Ross

Ross^p · 2nd January 2013, 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsaxo

+ even more cranking power Ross

I'm sold already - fuck off Josh I can't afford it right now

deano_123 · 2nd January 2013, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsaxo

Not really, they are the same as phone batteries and I have no issue charging my iPhone up a million times a day lol

which has a tiny output compared to what is needed for a car, we run thousands of lithium cells at work and they have a life cycle of 1000 charges

Ross^p · 2nd January 2013, 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by deano_123

which has a tiny output compared to what is needed for a car, we run thousands of lithium cells at work and they have a life cycle of 1000 charges

Presumably that's 1000 full discharge/recharge cycles?

deano_123 · 2nd January 2013, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

Presumably that's 1000 full discharge/recharge cycles?

yes, charging when a lithium is not fully discharged affects the life of the battery. im no wizard on them, this is just what i gather from speaking to the techs at work

jpsaxo · 3rd January 2013, 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by deano_123

which has a tiny output compared to what is needed for a car, we run thousands of lithium cells at work and they have a life cycle of 1000 charges

About 10years worth minimum then for how much me and Ross use our cars lol

jpsaxo · 3rd January 2013, 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

I'm sold already - fuck off Josh I can't afford it right now

Double sold Lol!

Ross^p · 3rd January 2013, 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsaxo

About 10years worth minimum then for how much me and Ross use our cars lol

haha

My car started just fine when it was last started. November 2011.

Jungle · 3rd January 2013, 11:43

I might try one of those lithium batteries

Alanapone^p · 3rd January 2013, 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by deano_123

yes, charging when a lithium is not fully discharged affects the life of the battery. im no wizard on them, this is just what i gather from speaking to the techs at work

Nah, the Ni-Cad's used to suffer from something called memory syndrome. This meant that if a battery was at 20% when placed on charged, it would only recharge 70-75% of the battery due to the temperatures that the battery reaches during charging. This would leave even a new battery without a totally full charge.

Lithium batteries do not suffer from this as they charge at a steady temperature. This means that they typically charge to 99.9%. This also means that they last longer and provide a better starting charge.

This is just knowledge I have gained through my job as a fire alarm engineer. We tend to use sealed lead acid batteries as they are cheap but things are beginning to change and were starting to see other types of battery being used and tested. This is what I have been told by our technical bods so if I'm wrong let me know. I do know for fact the Litiums don't suffer from memory syndrome though

axsaxoman · 4th January 2013, 10:36

has anybody actually priced up a suitably sized ION battery + charger
It strikes me the costs far outweight any miniscule advantage
I know the batteries for my wheel gun cost over £150 each and need a specific charger that looks at cell temp and things and have a limited no. of charges and then they are done .
So i am wondering how they could work correctly with an alternator on a car ,which is wanting to charge them all the time ?.

I have only seen ION batteries fitted to things that use power and do not expect to be recharged all the time and are not expected to need to supply maybe 300amps for a short time ,

IIf car makers using these sort of batteries cannot get them at a sensible price
citoren electric car costs £8000 for a set of batteries- and they cannot charge them up quickly without shortening the life by 50% ,then I cannot see this being a viable idea

maybe on a REAL race car that does not have a charging system and you have multiple batteries to swop after you have done 1/2hr on the track it may work --but at what cost
you want to save weight that seriously --then buy some very light mag wheels at £500 a pop and improve your un-sprung weight at same time
I worked it out that best combo of wheels +tyres for a saxo race car over std road wheels+tyres you could save at least 20kgs

jpsaxo · 4th January 2013, 20:09

I can only comment by experience John - My Lithium Ion is charged with the standard alternator and has been used in my Saxo over the UK summer with absolutely no issues. The only difference with my set up is that the alternator is geared down slightly so it has less drag on the engine.

It was then left standing for 4months solid (engine was just turned over by hand) & battery was stored inside a warm house. I then came back at Christmas, checked the battery life and its was still on 100% - it started the engine first time. Lithium Ion doesn't suffer from memory loss - as posted above.

The Lithium Ion battery is Smaller, has 10x the cranking power/actual power & doesn't lose it's memory. So even if it was halved by 50% as you suggest it would STILL have 5x MORE than a conversional acid battery or Gel race battery AND It was weighs a lot less than the standard (Standard battery must be 8/9/10kg?) where as my lithium Ion weighs in @ 960grams - yes NOT even 1kg - and to save 8-9kg just by changing the battery for £150 is an absalute steal - every little bit helps.

wadoryu · 5th January 2013, 10:39

Coming from the man with carpets and a standard heater matrix

Ijoke
I can see where johns coming from though.

Alanapone^p · 5th January 2013, 11:10

Hmm. Looked into Lith-Ion this morning after seeing the posts.

The batterys seem to be okay in most cases as JP is experienceing. However, the car manufacturers and techy types are saying that while the batteries are a lot better power/weight & size they do have issues with exploding if overcharged, stored incorrectly or a few other things that I don't fully understand. The main thing from what I can see if that in a normal road car like say, the tesla, the batteries needed to be cooled and have a specific charging system built to reduce the risk of an explosion. this has meant that the Tesla is deemed safe and should see a 100,000 miles or 5 year life cycle from its power pack.

I think for cars such as JP's or even people like myself who's car is just for weekends and trackdays, the Lith-Ions should be fine to use as long as they are disconnected and stored somewhere at around 20-25 degrees C when they are not going to be in use for long periods.

The charging side of things the you mention John could be an issue in the long term as the standard charging setup on the saxo's isn't ideal for Lith-Ion. The battery it's self doesn't like being overcharged. I could forsee that in a full race car if the output from the alternator is sat too high for the battery for long periods it could cause some overheating but the battery also will not overcharge. At least this means your not going to get any surge type effect if you then need to restart the car.

I might have a bit more af a look into the charging etc later but the info I have gathered this morning is from battery university and a few google searches if anyone else wants to have a look and set me straight on anything i've got muddled up.

So in short... Personally, I wouldn't use a Litium-Ion battery in a normal road car BUT I would in a weekend warrior / track day or short session race car. A longer duration race car I would use them in but only if the alternator was modified to cap its output and some form of temp monitoring was used on the battery.

Hope this helps any?

P.S. It will be interesting to see how JP's battery fairs over the coming years. The batteries have a set lifespan not only for charge cycles but in years as well so, even if you don't use it, they degrade. Just a thought for people thinking they'll last forever. Five years is longer than some batteries though.

Ross^p · 5th January 2013, 11:23

phew! Annnnnd breath!

I'll just stick with my red top 25 for now

Is small, light, and does the job.

As you say Alan, it will be interesting to see how JP gets on over the years to come, but I suspect it will be fine given that he never drives his car anyway and the battery is just dry stored

Alanapone^p · 5th January 2013, 12:53

Lol, true.

I was thinking after posting that lots as well...

A lot of people move the battery to the rear of the car to balance weight etc. Why then go and fit a lightweight battery. I know their is not leaking if you end up the wrong way up but a decent battery box should contain that. Just a thought before people go buying light battery's and fitting them in the boot.

Again, J.P's is in the normal place so that makes more sense. Their is no long cabling needed etc that could cause more problems.

jpsaxo · 5th January 2013, 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by wadoryu

Coming from the man with carpets and a standard heater matrix

Ijoke
I can see where johns coming from though.

What can i say... they arent even an option to remove for me. I'm getting old and the UK weather is freezing so I need to keep warm when I'm back

Interesting posts Alan, very informative

Alanapone^p · 5th January 2013, 15:52

Cheers, I do try. Like I say though, I may have misinterpreted the stuff i've read so don't take it as gospel. I did have a good read about though

jpsaxo · 5th January 2013, 21:54

Again I can only speak from experience... I've done the 4 hour trip to Sandy's twice (so 4 trips of 4hours+) and the battery has been perfect.

Even people using daily cars won't do trips much more than 4hours at any given time. If it survives the trip to the ring (about 8hours driving in total from Leicester) then I think we are safe to say its a go'er

Alanapone^p · 5th January 2013, 21:57

Yeah, true.