Saxo Engine/Performance If you're interested in tuning Saxo engines, or if you need to know something which is engine related... this is the place for you. |
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16th July 2007, 20:35
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#1
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Regular Poster
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 354
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FAO supercharger people
You lot whos owned or know of any body who's owned a vtr with a supercharger - rotrex
im just woundering if when you/they had it all set up did you just use double head gasket or if you did go to forged, did you just go for pistons, or was it pistons and rods
if you went with just forged pistons what would sort of boost would you be able to run? or what bhp would you be safe creating with just forged pistons, not rods and pistons
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16th July 2007, 20:39
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#2
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Saxperience Post Whore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: St Andrews United Kingdom (Scotland)
Posts: 7,384
Car(s): Green mk1 vtr/s and Focus zetec
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Not heard of any issues with running standard rods? Personally i'd go for forgies, if you're gonna do it then do it properly, it's anybody's guess how long it'd be before standard pistons melt even with the reduced compression of the double head gasket. The amount of boost you could run would depend on size of the charger and the pulley, not to mention fuelling and cooling. Speak to GMC mate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott
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Last edited by Sean; 16th July 2007 at 20:43.
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16th July 2007, 21:08
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#3
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tonbridge United Kingdom (England)
Posts: 38,236
Car(s): Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
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as sean says, id personally go for forgies, it allows alot more room for bigger boost and more power further down the line, and makes for a stronger engine.
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16th July 2007, 21:53
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#4
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Regular Poster
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 354
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Thats were i'm currently looking, john kinda put me of the sent of throttle bodies , ported heads ect as it doesnt give that big a gain...
so ive looked at the kit and will pick out the charger with the belt which comes to around 2k inc vat
4 larger injectors is about 150 iirc from what he said and the kms + wideband is just over 1 k with a custom loom inc vat
universal pipes and universal intercooler around 180 brand new, but brill but they'll do... and i'll get a larger rad from a scrappi, say i want 150 max 160 would i get away with just pistons
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16th July 2007, 21:54
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#5
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Regular Poster
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 354
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also will a cam benefit from any of this or isnt it worth the cash for the extra few bhp? unless i go for 285r piper cam?
cheers for the replys so far
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16th July 2007, 21:57
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#6
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tonbridge United Kingdom (England)
Posts: 38,236
Car(s): Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
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not sure if you can boost on the 285, due to blow by, something ud need to speak to a boost spethalist about
std rods are fine, martin was using them irc for a while (may have been shot peened)
thats something PM marting from tweeqed he may be able to sort the parts for you.
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16th July 2007, 22:06
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#7
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Regular Poster
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 354
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whats his username please?
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16th July 2007, 23:05
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#8
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tonbridge United Kingdom (England)
Posts: 38,236
Car(s): Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
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tweeqed irc.
he has the axvtrturbo
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God made beer, women and Throttle bodies
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17th July 2007, 02:16
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#9
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Saxperience Post Whore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: somewhere on this planet, doing something..... around northumberland or in the middle of the sea
Posts: 8,774
Car(s): Mk2 VTS
track mk1 turbo vts
scooby engined 2CV
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if you are serious and have the cash, i would go for forged pistons, get the biggest charger you can, intercooler, you can use a 106/saxo deisel radiator and header tank as it is bigger and copper cored, bigger injectors, kms or similar with wideband, btb manifold and system, cams wise i would have a chat with cat cams, they can do you a custom cam that will avoid blow by and still give you an increase in power, you will also need a twin plate clutch, atb diff, bigger discs and calipers.
its all down to how much you want to spend really, you will need it all set up properly too.
make sure you have a big fire extinguisher too, lol dont want it catching fire like mine did after spending a mint on it lol
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R.I.P SCOTTY, YOU WILL BE MISSED BY SO MANY. TAKE IT EASY UP THERE, UNTIL WE MEET AGAIN.
THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A SPARE SEAT FOR YOU TO RIDE SHOTGUN AROUND THE TRACK WITH ME IN THE 'PIECE OF SHIT SAXO' LMBO IT AINT NO BEEMER OR GOLF, BUT IT WILL BE FAST A FOOK, I PROMISE
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17th July 2007, 02:17
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#10
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Saxperience Post Whore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: somewhere on this planet, doing something..... around northumberland or in the middle of the sea
Posts: 8,774
Car(s): Mk2 VTS
track mk1 turbo vts
scooby engined 2CV
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never herd of any problems with rods?
shouldnt be a problem using standard, if you have the cash to spend 1k on pistons and rods, go for it (will give you peace of mind).
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R.I.P SCOTTY, YOU WILL BE MISSED BY SO MANY. TAKE IT EASY UP THERE, UNTIL WE MEET AGAIN.
THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A SPARE SEAT FOR YOU TO RIDE SHOTGUN AROUND THE TRACK WITH ME IN THE 'PIECE OF SHIT SAXO' LMBO IT AINT NO BEEMER OR GOLF, BUT IT WILL BE FAST A FOOK, I PROMISE
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17th July 2007, 06:47
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#11
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Regular Poster
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 354
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i dont really but if they would be needed...
pistons / rods - 1k.
new water / oil pump + cambelt + all new bolts seals bearings ect - price?? probaly a good few quid lol.
clutch. there like nearly 600 quid? surely theres something cheaper about
atb diff - not sure of price but i bet it isnt cheap
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17th July 2007, 13:57
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#12
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tonbridge United Kingdom (England)
Posts: 38,236
Car(s): Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
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atb diff is 550+ fitting to box.
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God made beer, women and Throttle bodies
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17th July 2007, 15:22
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#13
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Regular Poster
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 354
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cheers
got 3k which will be used to start me off with finding rent my own place with the gf .
getting some koni shocks, a full kit actualy - oil cooler and oil relocater - forged pistons and rods - helix clutch - camshaft.
then on my next large sum of cash is going to be makeing the gearbox good
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17th July 2007, 15:41
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#14
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tonbridge United Kingdom (England)
Posts: 38,236
Car(s): Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
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suspension id not get koni and speak to kam about groupN billies.
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God made beer, women and Throttle bodies
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17th July 2007, 18:02
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#15
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Regular Poster
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 354
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whats wrong with koni, as ive already booked my car in now
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17th July 2007, 22:29
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#16
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Saxperience Post Whore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: somewhere on this planet, doing something..... around northumberland or in the middle of the sea
Posts: 8,774
Car(s): Mk2 VTS
track mk1 turbo vts
scooby engined 2CV
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billies are way better matey
i have a twin plate ap racing clutch in mine and its very harsh, takes some getting used to, its either on or off.
helix twin plate is supost to be a tad better. but i wouldnt go for anything else to be honest.
i wouldnt bother with the rods mate, if you are stripping the motor a fitting new crank bearings etc, i would just get the O/E rods shot peened matey. save yourself £500
defo get a bigger set of front discs and calipers, best thing i ever got for the car, apart from the charger of coarse lol
__________________
R.I.P SCOTTY, YOU WILL BE MISSED BY SO MANY. TAKE IT EASY UP THERE, UNTIL WE MEET AGAIN.
THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A SPARE SEAT FOR YOU TO RIDE SHOTGUN AROUND THE TRACK WITH ME IN THE 'PIECE OF SHIT SAXO' LMBO IT AINT NO BEEMER OR GOLF, BUT IT WILL BE FAST A FOOK, I PROMISE
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17th July 2007, 22:44
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#17
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Regular Poster
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boz
billies are way better matey
i have a twin plate ap racing clutch in mine and its very harsh, takes some getting used to, its either on or off.
helix twin plate is supost to be a tad better. but i wouldnt go for anything else to be honest.
i wouldnt bother with the rods mate, if you are stripping the motor a fitting new crank bearings etc, i would just get the O/E rods shot peened matey. save yourself £500
defo get a bigger set of front discs and calipers, best thing i ever got for the car, apart from the charger of coarse lol
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its either standard pistons or forged, if standard will handle 150 to 160 bhp at the wheels ill just go for the pistons, did you use standard rods, also what doesshot peened mean
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18th July 2007, 07:02
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#18
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Regular Poster
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Daventry, Northampton
Posts: 261
Car(s): Clio 172
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i run Omega low comps with standard rods in my VTS.
Seeing 1 bar of boost from a 74 charger...runs fine with no probs as yet, near 2k covered since rebuild.
wouldnt go any bigger than an 84 charger, so whoever said get as big as possible is talking crap.
bear in mind that andyL's car is seeing 270bhp @ wheels on a 74 charger!!! so a 94 charger isnt really required. 84 is if you want high boost, over 1 bar.
As for twin headgasket, u can do this, i had my old setup on this, with standard pistons, good for 0.6 bar of boost...safe anyway, but then Somers ran 1.2 bar on std internals before and his was fine...but then how risky do you wanna be.
Shot peened changes the molecular structure of the material making it stonger therefore more resiliant to breaking under load.
If your gonna do the intercooler route too then do it properly, none of this diesel rad shit! get the GMC pace intercooler rad combo...its great and a stright fit
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18th July 2007, 07:03
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#19
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Regular Poster
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Daventry, Northampton
Posts: 261
Car(s): Clio 172
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Also AP racing clutch is far too harsh for normal road use...not only that but you'l run the risk of snapping clutch cables and bending clutch arms etc,
so go for a helix unit...ive ran two of these and both been spot on. i now see 230 bhp @ wheels and my cerametallic clutch is great
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