Standalone ecu fitting + engine looms - Saxperience

jsdvtr · 30th November 2010, 17:50

Ive just found a thread on the suggestions section about electrics. People said about it being in here which would be the best place, I thought id make a start on one.

Anyway today i was thinking of putting up a thread about fitting standalone ecu and loom. What would be taken away from the original loom? Would the main plug above the gearbox be removed? Which colour wires are for which sensors (if all ecu looms are the same in this way)? There are alot more questions i would like to think off though and hopefully some people could give some good advice on this.

This is something i was thinking about taking to garage when i get all the parts but would like to tackle alot more of the car myself and im sure alot of others would but just confidence with the big things gets in my way

blackie_2k5 · 30th November 2010, 19:04

fitting a standalone engine management system isnt mega hard IF you have a half decent knowledge of electrics, most looms are wired up very differently (mainly because of diff engines and setups... and the sensors they do/dont require), as are the "plugs" or input/output terminals on the management itself, you should get a pin out diagram (or be able to get one from the manufacturer) with any ecu you buy, getting one from your car manufacturer is a diff story though, this isnt a major problem as its fairly easy... but time cosuming to strip, and go round your loom with a multi-meter and working out which wires control which sensors, its not something that should be tackled by anyone, as it could easily be fucked up, which could even more easliy result in a big fire, fucking your engine, or at very least frying your nice new standalone, something thats worth thinking about and researching ALOT before even thinking of taking on work like this

as for fitting/mating looms, youll probs find its 50/50 between ppl who modify/mate their OE loom to the new ecu, and ppl who fabricate a new loom to run their engine on the new ecu, it also depends what the OE loom is like to begin with, imo its alot easier to fault find on a new loom, but others may strongly dis-agree with that(saxo looms arent that bad to start with so mating to OE wouldnt be too bad), i started to research alot into this when i was gonna build my own mega-squirt, but with a baby on the way ive decided it is more work then i have time to spare, hence going predator,

jsdvtr · 9th December 2010, 09:22

Heres speclist/functions of the omex 600 + dta s40 as they are the most common ecus that are being used. Ive just copied and pasted the infomation off the manufacters website so not false infomation is given.

If anyone could think of any others i could do same for just for others to have a read up on them when deciding on which ecu to go for.

OMEX 600 SPEC-

Semi-sequential fuel injection for up to 4 cylinder engines

Distributorless or distributor ignition for up to 4 cylinders

Programmable load and speed sites

TPS or MAP can be used for main load sensing

Wide range of crank trigger patterns are suitable (user programmable)

Turbo wastegate control

Turbo anti-lag system

Variable cam control

Launch control

Narrow and wide band lambda support

Push/pull, and single line idle controls in addition to scattered spark control

Knock sensing capability

3 programmable outputs switched on user controlled inputs (eg boost, coolant temp etc)

Security protected calibrations

Full throttle gearchange

Intercooler water spray control

Water injection control

Nitrous ignition retard and fuel enrichment

Two cooling fan controls

Barometric compensation with external sensor

Uses the latest version of the superb MAP2000 Windows programming software

Suitable for normally aspirated or boosted engines

Inbuilt independent fuel and ignition rev limiters

Separate Tachometer, Shift Light and Fuel Pump outputs

Magnetic or Hall Effect crank and cam sensors

Automatic interpolation between mapped sites

Sophisticated acceleration fuelling setup

Various harness options from economical semi-assembled to full race quality bespoke looms

Battery voltage compensation table for fuel injectors (not just a simple number)

Battery compensation and engine speed compensation for coil charge time

Mappable coolant temperature compensation for engine warm-up

Air & coolant temperature compensation for fuel injection pulse width

Separate cold cranking and decay tables in addition to warm-up fuelling

User settable ignition trim based on air temperature, coolant temperature, and barometric pressure

Separate start advance for cranking provides easy starting for high compression engines

Deceleration fuel cut-off feature for road engines

Maximum recommended engine speed 12,750 RPM

DTA S40 PRO SPEC-

Engine Configuration

20,000 rpm capability
Flexible and easily adapted to different OEM, crank, cam sensor arrangements.
Genuine four and two stroke support.
Twin injector engines.
Semi - sequential injection.
wasted spark or distributor.
User controlled fan activation.
Sensors can be calibrated individually with a lot of preset options supplied.
Flexible Tacho Output
soft and hard rev limits

Main Fuel and Ignition Functions

Comprehensive start up fuelling options both time and temperature dependant.
Air, coolant and manifold pressure compensation maps.
Throttle transient increase compensation.
Throttle transient reduction compensation.
RPM and load breakpoints can be calibrated by the user.
Throttle or MAP as load.
All maps with one or two dimensional with interpolation as required.

Lambda control functions

Extensive lambda parameters table to ensure stable closed loop operation and emissions requirements can be met where needed.
Full three dimensional lambda target map.
Auto-tuning function.

Turbo Control Functions

Open or closed loop turbo pressure control via PWM valve.
Modify target turbo pressure by gear selected.
Modify target turbo pressure by vehicle speed.
Two control maps selected by switch on dashboard.
Active base PWM map for easy calibration.

Idle Control Functions

Open or closed loop idle speed control via PWM valve.
Closed loop idle target speed temperature dependant.
Active base PWM map for easy calibration.
Fuel enrichment table calibrated versus PWM percentage.

Flexible Input/Output

Three uncommitted input tables which use 0 5 volt inputs or any input the S60 knows already, linked to fuel and advance modifiers and a PWM output.

Launch Control

Fully flexible first gear launch capability.
Extensively tunable to individual vehicles.

Full Throttle Gear Shift Cut

Shift cut capability with 1ms resolution, variable for each gear with
full switch de-bounce capability.

Voltage Compensation Tables

User configurable voltage compensation tables for injector dead time
and coil on time (dwell time).

Diagnostics and Test Features.

Full sensor diagnostics and fault recording.
Extensive engine run time recording at different load and speed conditions.
Ability to exercise injectors and coils without engine running for fault finding.

Other Features

Sealed Latching Connectors

Size 115 x 100 x 41 mm

Weight 268 gm

All outputs protected against over temperature and over current

Inputs protected against severe wiring mistakes and accidents

Reverse battery protection

Alternator load dump protection

Input and Output Features

Inputs

Crank Shaft (Magnetic Only)

Throttle Position

Coolant Temperature

Air Temperature

Manifold / Barometric Pressure

Lambda

Oil Pressure

Fuel Pressure

Oil Temperature

Battery Volts

3 x User Defined Analogue (Shared Use)

Launch Switch

Shift Cut

Undriven Wheel Speed

Outputs

2 x Coil Drivers

2 x Injector Drivers

Tacho

Fuel Pump Relay

Fan/Aux 2/Turbo Pressure Valve (Shared Use)

Idle Valve (Shared Second Injector Driver)

Shift Light

Yates · 9th December 2010, 12:42

just wondeirng, why not just keep the standard loom?

Colin · 9th December 2010, 15:12

Most looms are spliced with the original. My Omex is half Omex/half OE with the wires not need removed.

jsdvtr · 9th December 2010, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin

Most looms are spliced with the original. My Omex is half Omex/half OE with the wires not need removed.

What do you think to your omex colin?

Colin · 9th December 2010, 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsdvtr

What do you think to your omex colin?

Awesome. Very flexible. When mapped it transformed my car over the standard ECU. It can do so much that ill never probably use however!

Only bad thing is, on standard inlet, it doesnt control the standard idle circuit (ICV) and warmup procedure. So when coming down the revs from about 4k its really really jerky. Obvs this wont happen on bodies.

But I wouldnt have another system tbh.

jsdvtr · 9th December 2010, 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin

Awesome. Very flexible. When mapped it transformed my car over the standard ECU. It can do so much that ill never probably use however!

Only bad thing is, on standard inlet, it doesnt control the standard idle circuit (ICV) and warmup procedure. So when coming down the revs from about 4k its really really jerky. Obvs this wont happen on bodies.

But I wouldnt have another system tbh.

Well the omex is one i feel id go for over the others from what ive heard about them and theyre easy to map? but the likes of sandy use DTA, i dont know much about the emerald though.

Dta and omex seems to have fairly similar features like full throttle shift, launch control.

I asked the guy who rebuilt my gearbox today about prices of fitting, mapping, etc and he said it would take a full day so around £200 mark. Id look at northampton motorsport for mapping as its near where relatives live so i could go down there while im at it as heard very good stuff about them.

Yates · 9th December 2010, 17:50

why not consider emerald? its what i run had no problems at all, quite a lot use them as well as the omex. pug1off tend to fit the emeralds

what kind of price are you looking at for the omex? and then you would need your loom chopping to fit the 3 plug, well assuming you are, as you have asked about custom looms

jsdvtr · 9th December 2010, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yates

why not consider emerald? its what i run had no problems at all, quite a lot use them as well as the omex. pug1off tend to fit the emeralds

what kind of price are you looking at for the omex? and then you would need your loom chopping to fit the 3 plug, well assuming you are, as you have asked about custom looms

Well the omex, dta, emerald are all same price really.

Well if im going standalone it wouldnt really matter about being 3plug as all the sensors will be going to the new ecu and i know the omex has got feature for the fan so unlike going 3plug to single plug standard ecu where single plug ecu doesnt control as much as 3plug like fan, fuel pump the standalone would control all these. Am i right?

Yates · 9th December 2010, 18:28

well you would need your loom hardwired to fit the omex, as it is 3 plug at the end. Yes the ecu would control them all, but im saying as its not plug in and play you would need your loom chopped.

pug1off chopped mine for emerald. cant decide what to do with my car though now, if you are after a stand alone ecu and loom for a 3 plug, i maybe able to help you out

jsdvtr · 9th December 2010, 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yates

well you would need your loom hardwired to fit the omex, as it is 3 plug at the end. Yes the ecu would control them all, but im saying as its not plug in and play you would need your loom chopped.

pug1off chopped mine for emerald. cant decide what to do with my car though now, if you are after a stand alone ecu and loom for a 3 plug, i maybe able to help you out

I thought you was selling it all with the cams and bodies?

Well i know it would need matching upto the standard engine loom with that being chopped too getting rid of un'needed wiring to sensors.

Yates · 9th December 2010, 22:26

i dont know what im doing in all fairness lol but if i got a good offer id consider it

AndySAXO^p · 10th December 2010, 11:43

NMS like omex to map than emerald ecu so if your planning there then omex would be better option for them to map.

AndySAXO^p · 10th December 2010, 11:45

Nothing against emerald ecu but NMS are a omex deal too so they like them over others, always best to go with the management the mapper like best, as it will save on mapping rime if they know that system better, but NMS will map most ecu but like most companies they have there more prefered ecu

Yates · 10th December 2010, 12:16

NMS mapped my emerald ecu, sure toads was done there and on emerald, done a good job with both. had no problems with mine and believe it was a set price for remap when i got it done

AndySAXO^p · 10th December 2010, 12:26

Yer not saying they will not map it, but they preferred the omex ecu than the emerald ecu that all, but if you read my posted they will map most but they PREFER omex ecu for mapping.

Just that pug1off use emerald and NMS for mapping.

NMS mapped my car on a MS software predator, but talking to them they like omex ecu over the rest that all and if he going direct they will mostly like to work with omex ecu than others as the are a omex dealer too.

That what I was saying it the person going to map the engine like one ecu over other then best option would be to go with that.

Emerald, omex etc are really all the same for what a Saxo engine needs.

Also TDF like omex over others, but will map others, but they have there own ecu with matt the owner own software designed by him, but alot of features on these ecu are not used much for Saco engine when going n/a.

Jungle · 10th December 2010, 13:25

Ive got DTA S40 with a loom made up of an O/E loom and made to fit, ive had a few problems though. If i was to do it again id go to GR for everything, think he can do DTA S40, brand new custom loom and mapping for less than 800, probably a lot less thats just a safe figure lol

jsdvtr · 4th January 2011, 11:39

Looking at getting ecu in a few months maybe, just would like to get some more knowledge about looms.

What is left on the OE loom and whats choped off (not needed)?

What does the new loom go to (to suit standalone)?

How do you go about hardwiring them together?

Colin · 5th January 2011, 15:37

Its like in 2 parts.

The Standalone loom would drive the injectors, crank sensor, lambda, coilpack, TPS, air temp, ecu temp etc and the rest of the loom i.e reverse lighting switch, oil temp / gauge (vts dials) speedo etc would be the OE half of the loom.

Then its spliced together and thats where I draw the line at helping as I have no idea how its joined