Turbo, Carbs, Throttle Bodies, Boost???

[blackie_2k5]

totally aggree, but most ppl just want big power for little cost these days, boost makes that easier

bodied saxos are good fun cars, but as said, the bang for buck isnt as good, and when you can spend the same on a car and get X amount more power, its really only the obvious choice(well to me anyway), it really all boils down to what you want out of the car and your money

[hard_corejoeboy]

Agree all round...just to the average Joe they really need to learn how to drive properly first to make use of any extra power.

One bloke at work was going on about how he was screeching the hell out of his tyres and smoking them at his first ever trackday and that he was so good people were pointing.

Yes i kindly pointed out to him that turning in early and mashing the foot flat to the floor isn't the quickest line for a FWD haha!

[toxic]

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

totally aggree, but most ppl just want big power for little cost these days, boost makes that easier

bodied saxos are good fun cars, but as said, the bang for buck isnt as good, and when you can spend the same on a car and get X amount more power, its really only the obvious choice(well to me anyway), it really all boils down to what you want out of the car and your money

do you know were a good place to get a turbo kit might look into this boost thing

[blackie_2k5]

depends on your budget

[axsaxoman]

Originally Posted by toxic

are they as good as catcams 708 i am looking to go this way with my engine

yes every bit as good if not better--but you expect me to say that
--any differences will be small as the duration +lift used on both these cams is to allow use of a single t/b as well as ITB,S and give a reasonable idle --physics dictates these things .
but if a 20% saving is not worth considering get the 708,s I have sold 20+ sets of these now and had no complaints of any kind
In a previous post someone was saying that the knowledge is now in the public domain --it always has been --but it how you match all the components of the engine together +then spen the money on getting it mapped right .
It still suprises me how many spend fortunes on bits shiney + otherwise ,then get very tight on getting it mapped correctly --not a recipe for getting the best from your project --there is no miracle 1 hour solution to dialing everything in to get the best

[Gareth_R]

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

it really all boils down to what you want out of the car and your money

And how much work you're prepared to do yourself.

E.g. - massive budget, go boost and can pay a company to do it (not that i would as they rip you a new bum hole)

Large-ish budget and prepared to do a little bit but not loads - no point going boost you'll give up halfway through. Bodies are the better route for this situation but you'll be gutted when someone spent the same about and got way more power with more upgrade options for the future

Modest to large budget, prepared to go the extra mile and put the effort in yourself - boost all the way!

limited budget - you'll struggle to do either

[toxic]

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

yes every bit as good if not better--but you expect me to say that
--any differences will be small as the duration +lift used on both these cams is to allow use of a single t/b as well as ITB,S and give a reasonable idle --physics dictates these things .
but if a 20% saving is not worth considering get the 708,s I have sold 20+ sets of these now and had no complaints of any kind
In a previous post someone was saying that the knowledge is now in the public domain --it always has been --but it how you match all the components of the engine together +then spen the money on getting it mapped right .
It still suprises me how many spend fortunes on bits shiney + otherwise ,then get very tight on getting it mapped correctly --not a recipe for getting the best from your project --there is no miracle 1 hour solution to dialing everything in to get the best

they sound good to me when its time to get them i will buy them off you with you tb

[Jungle]

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

It still suprises me how many spend fortunes on bits shiney + otherwise ,then get very tight on getting it mapped correctly --not a recipe for getting the best from your project --there is no miracle 1 hour solution to dialing everything in to get the best

This is what makes me laugh as well. IMO the map is the most important part of the build... make sure you get a mapper you can trust!!!

[LeeM]

bodies get my vote on a saxo.
if you want big bhp figures to brag about then go turbo

[dannygti]

N/a is king

[Gareth_R]

Boost isn't just about big bhp it's about useable power - so much more across the rev range than n/a

[dannygti]

Originally Posted by Gareth_R

Boost isn't just about big bhp it's about useable power - so much more across the rev range than n/a

Finally someone who understands why some people use turbochargers

[Gareth_R]

i seriously thought about keeping my 16v engine, camming it, bodies, standalone etc

but from what i could see, i'd spend as much as i would turbo-ing, for the sake of what, 30bhp, and i'd achieve that extra 30bhp way up in the rev range and have to rag shit out of it everywhere to use it, because the power band was so narrow

so i looked at turbos, saw that i could put my foot down in third at 40 and maybe actually accelerate at a decent rate, rather than having to drop to second, and decided that suited me far better

pretty tough call though

[scot-ish]

Originally Posted by Gareth_R

so i looked at turbos, saw that i could put my foot down in third at 40 and maybe actually accelerate at a decent rate, rather than having to drop to second, and decided that suited me far better

yup, aslong as you get a decent turbo matched to the engine. otherwise you'll be worse off lagging away waiting on 4 or 5k coming round before you can even make boost.

as said, its no an easy choice, i would build myself, and play with turbo setup.

[Jungle]

Originally Posted by Gareth_R

i seriously thought about keeping my 16v engine, camming it, bodies, standalone etc

but from what i could see, i'd spend as much as i would turbo-ing, for the sake of what, 30bhp, and i'd achieve that extra 30bhp way up in the rev range and have to rag shit out of it everywhere to use it, because the power band was so narrow

so i looked at turbos, saw that i could put my foot down in third at 40 and maybe actually accelerate at a decent rate, rather than having to drop to second, and decided that suited me far better

pretty tough call though

you got that all wrong turbos only make power between 6,999 and 7,000 rpm N/A engines make power 1 and 10,000rpm there is the issue of no torque to go with it but torque is just for bragging in pubs

[willsy]

Ill certainly be heading down the boost route with the latest project.

Had TB's on the Saxo and honestly believe with the setup I had it was the worst money I spent on the car in terms of performance.

Sure if you're aiming for a very high spec N/A engine with all the trimmings and alot of internal work (Similar to/above the engine currently in AlexB's 106) then yes from my experience of a lesser spec internally and having been in Toad's car when it had AlexB's engine in, i'd agree that its a worthwhile modification but itll need high investment on the internals aswel to reap the benefits.

If you already currently have a decent map on a cammed 16v engine and you're simply looking to add TB's to that you'll be massively disappointed. Having had mine on the same set of rollers there was a pitifully low increase across the range figures wise (BEFORE: being cammed/mapped and AFTER having applied tb's to it), not worth the expense.

Usually thats a point thats made early on in these threads but can't see it having been mentioned thus far. If you're starting with a standard-ish engine common sense option both financially and for performance is with boost.

[toxic]

Originally Posted by willsy

Ill certainly be heading down the boost route with the latest project.

Had TB's on the Saxo and honestly believe with the setup I had it was the worst money I spent on the car in terms of performance.

Sure if you're aiming for a very high spec N/A engine with all the trimmings and alot of internal work (Similar to/above the engine currently in AlexB's 106) then yes from my experience of a lesser spec internally and having been in Toad's car when it had AlexB's engine in, i'd agree that its a worthwhile modification but itll need high investment on the internals aswel to reap the benefits.

If you already currently have a decent map on a cammed 16v engine and you're simply looking to add TB's to that you'll be massively disappointed. On the same set of rollers there was a pitifully low increase across the range figures wise, not worth the expense.

Usually thats a point thats made early on in these threads but can't see it having been mentioned thus far. If you're starting with a standard-ish engine common sense option both financially and for performance is with boost.

Sounds like TB are just a waste of money then so why do people rave on about them

[willsy]

Originally Posted by toxic

Sounds like TB are just a waste of money then so why do people rave on about them

They can be good and worthwhile but you have to spend alot (more than you'd spend on a boost setup) to get the best out of them

Adding them to a 'mild' spec engine is where theyre in the realms of a waste of money

[hard_corejoeboy]

You know what sod turbos, sod tb's get a trackday and tuition and buy yourself a video vbox and get better at driving first.

Turbo's and tb's are like black and white some people like one others liek the other...

[toxic]

Originally Posted by willsy

They can be good and worthwhile but you have to spend alot (more than you'd spend on a boost setup) to get the best out of them

Adding them to a 'mild' spec engine is where theyre in the realms of a waste of money

so if you had 5000 to spend what would be the best for power when you put your foot down i was going to get catcams 708 and omex ecu Jenvey range TB for now then forged pistons later on but do like the sound of a supercharger will have to look into this first as its all new